Pancho Villa Battery


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Checkman
August 18, 2005, 04:22 PM
I just finished watching The Wild Bunch, Presenting Pancho Villa and The Professionals. I like those movies set during the time of the Mexican revolution. Western action, but using machine guns, 44 triple locks, Colt 45 New Services,Mauser Broomhandles, 30-06 Springfields and Winchester 97's. Well here's my battery for a soldier of fortune in our southern neighbor during that very chaotic time. In the effort of truthfulness only one of these weapons were actually made during this time. I do believe that he would be well equipped and ready for almost anything - except attacking a machine gun.

1)Winchester Model 1895 (30-06) with 24" barrel. Manufactured in 1996 by Winchester.

2)Norinco Model 97 12 guage. Reproduction of Winchester 1897 riot gun.

3)S&W Model 1905 MIlitary and Police, 3rd change, 38 special, 6" barrel. Manufactured circa 1913/1914.

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Checkman
August 18, 2005, 05:13 PM
I think this is a better picture. I'm not DHart though. ;)

Dr.Rob
August 18, 2005, 06:39 PM
Hm.. I have a New Service .45 and a 1903 (though mine is an A3)... and can lay my hands on a Winchester model 24 and a few Marlin 1895 lever guns...

Also have a pre-a1 1911 and a Luger (mine was made in 39 but it was adopted in 1908, right?)

I think the first time I saw a New Service Colt on screen was "Last Hard Men" starring Charleton Heston.

Checkman
August 18, 2005, 07:11 PM
Excellent. I also own a Lee-Enfield MKIII and an 1898 Mauser (mfd. 1910) which could work as well. Even though the MKIII might take some wild leaps of the imagination to explain it's presence in Mexico. Perhaps bought via the black market from British stocks in British Honduras? Hey there's a story.

drinks
August 18, 2005, 09:18 PM
Dorotea Arranga, aka Pancho Villa, used what he had, but at Matamoros in 1916 he found '92 s and '94 s carried by horsemen would not make an impression on Maxims and French 75 s, so he retired to Durango after that.
I have a '92 that my grandpa recovered from a dead horse washed up on this side of the river the day after the battle, .44-40 saddle ring carbine, made 1910.
Grandpa watched the battle from Brownsville.
He was a member of a home defense group that was based on people who owned cars being given a call , by the fire siren, to get to the rail siding, there they would load their cars on flatcars, collect 3 other men , all with rifles, and go as close as the railroad ran, unload, and go chasing banditos.
Usually, the banditos were well back in Mexico before they got where they had been seen.
The men were deputized as special Texas Rangers, under about the same deal the Texas and Southwestern C.A. range inspectors have now.

Sam
August 19, 2005, 01:56 AM
More likely to get 95's in 30 USG (Krag) in that place and time.
My grandad was at Fort Stanton NM when Villa hit Columbus.
His Issue weapon was a 1909 New Service and he carried a 95 in 30 Govt. becuse he could get away with it.
A Colt tater digger would be appropriate too. And lots of folks then like the 38 Colt Military auto.

Sam

Archie
August 19, 2005, 03:08 AM
Handgun: Colt New Frontier in .44 WCF (.44-40)

Handy carbine: 1892 Winchester in .44 WCF

Rifle: 1903 Springfield; .30-40 Krag would be a easy second choice.

Shotgun: 1897 Winchester or a non-damascus barrelled double with ejectors.

Spare parts and upkeep fairly simple. Ammo reasonably available.

Now if I could just figure out how to avoid dealing with horses...

BigG
August 19, 2005, 08:55 AM
The Wild Bunch used a lot of 30/06 caliber weapons. I don't know when the Model 95 was first produced in 30/06 - usually marked *30 Govt 06* I seem to recall, but the Wild Bunch was set in 1914, iirc. Plenty of 1903 Springfields, Browning machine guns, etc.

Nice set, Checkman, although I would recommend something a little heftier than a 38 Special on the wild frontier. ;)

entropy
August 19, 2005, 09:10 AM
Well, since we're talking batteries , I believe a couple of one pounder Hotchkiss' wouldn't be too much of a stretch, cheaply available on the surplus arms market at the time.....as for small arms, how about something locally produced and semi-auto....the Mondragon! ;) Backed up by a C96 and a A-5, you've got yourself a modern adventurer's tool kit. :)

Checkman
August 19, 2005, 11:58 AM
BigG The Wild Bunch used a lot of 30/06 caliber weapons. I don't know when the Model 95 was first produced in 30/06 - usually marked *30 Govt 06* I seem to recall, but the Wild Bunch was set in 1914, iirc. Plenty of 1903 Springfields, Browning machine guns, etc.

Nice set, Checkman, although I would recommend something a little heftier than a 38 Special on the wild frontier

Thanks. I wouldn't be honest if I wasn't a little proud. But you probably figured that out for why else would I take the time to arrange everything, take a photo and post it?

You're right about the 38 of course, but right now Triple Locks and New Services are out of my budget abilities. None of my N frames and Blackhawks would be correct and I don't own any 1911's - that's my father. The closest I come is a High Power. So I go with what I have. Heck you never know. Perhaps my soldier of fortune goes mostly with his rifle and shotgun for the serious work and looks at his handgun as a close in weapon? In which case a K frame 38 with service sights would appeal to him. Well it's possible isn't it?

Well anyhow this was fun. Geez I would like a Colt Potato Digger - wonder how much one of those would cost? Of course I don't have one of those Federal permits so the question remain academic. I did see one in person back in 98 at the Springfield Armory. It was in excellent condition. the park ranger said it had only been fired once and then sat in a goverment warehouse for many many decades - still in it's crate.

I'd also like a Winchester 95 carbine. I've seen a couple for sale, but the price is always over a $1,000 and the two specimens I looked at were both in really rough condition. Nevertheless the search will continue.

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