Source of "clip"????


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Eightball
August 18, 2005, 11:21 PM
This is sorta random, but I'm just curious--why is the word "clip" used by some people to describe a magazine? How did the word get associated with mags, and what's the history of this usage? Anyone?

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Shaun
August 18, 2005, 11:29 PM
Its simple the M1 Garand uses a Clip to contain the ammunition for the rifle.

P95Carry
August 18, 2005, 11:30 PM
As I recall it was re the ''clip'' for the M1 that held eight rounds and was spat out after last one fired. Someone can hopefully confirm that or supply correct answer.

Five rounds of .303 Brit could I guess also be called a ''clip''. The we have 10 round ''stripper-clips'' for SKS ... still loosely a clip but used to feed a magazine.

Magazine tho is, to be accurate, a spring loaded container that holds rounds of ammunition and thru that spring pressure feeds them sequentially into an auto loader or full auto breech - each round being stripped off as bolt cycles. Still a magazine of course even if a bolt rifle - again as example, the Enfield rifle with 10 round mag' - each round being stripped by bolt but manually..

Shaun
August 18, 2005, 11:32 PM
P95 you are correct

mustanger98
August 18, 2005, 11:38 PM
Both "clips" and "magazines" hold ammo.

Clips: there's two kinds. Stripper clips generally hold five rounds by the case heads. You put a clip in the guide and strip the rounds down into the rifle's internal box magazine. En Blocs (Garand) are another matter; they hold eight rounds and the clip stays in the magazine until empty, then is automatically ejected. Clips are basically throw-away items on the battlefield. In civilian usage, nothing of this nature will be throw-away due to expense.

Magazines: these are the steel boxes with self-contained spring/follower. Usually, in military usage, you'd have several loaded and be carrying clipped ammo to reload. These are not throw away items; loose your mags and you have a single shot rifle.

I've heard it said that the interchangability between the two words is a holdover from the M1 Garand- the only US semiauto battle rifle to have an internal box magazine and be clip-loaded.

I hope this helps.

Onmilo
August 18, 2005, 11:56 PM
Clip loading was introduced by Mannlicher and perfected with the Mauser system.
The clips were first referred to as magazine chargers.
The British and American troops began to call the chargers 'clips' since the chargers tend to 'clip' the ammunition together in a single unit.
The term 'Magazine' was first associated with storage facilities for ammunition and loose powder stores, later the term was applied to the boxes and hoppers attached to individual weapons and was used interchangably for permanent and detachable ammunition feed sources.
Clips and chargers are meant to feed ammunition magazines but somewhere along the way, (World War One is the most likely era when the terms began to be used interchangably), troops began to refer to all ammunition feed devices as 'Clips'.
The term stuck in trooper nomenclature and was picked up and used by civilian shooters as well and trainers the world over have been trying for years to correct the misterminology with little success.
No matter if it is called a 'clip', a 'charger', or a 'magazine' most English speaking shooters the world over will understand what the person is referring to.

Preacherman
August 19, 2005, 12:08 AM
Yes, and a place where loaded magazines are stored is called an "arsenal", while a place where loaded clips are stored is called a "clip joint". Very important distinction, that...

:neener:

RyanM
August 19, 2005, 12:22 AM
Clip gets used because it has fewer syllables than magazine.

Hawkmoon
August 19, 2005, 01:01 AM
Clip gets used because it has fewer syllables than magazine.
"Clip" gets used because writers who don't know diddley doo about firearms heard the term once and think using it makes them sound knowledgeable ... little suspecting that the exact opposite is true.

Phyphor
August 19, 2005, 02:58 AM
I wonder if it has anything to do with the old money clips, like my grampa used to have? Those were made out of spring steel as well, and held together a money roll...

foghornl
August 19, 2005, 09:07 AM
My humble 1/50th of $1....

Clip feeds the magazine, magazine feeds the weapon. (Except for the US Rifle cal .30 M1 Clip stay in untill empty)

entropy
August 19, 2005, 09:56 AM
As do the various Mannlicher rifles and the Carcano. Onmilo had the best definition I've seen thus. Now, where are my strippers... :eek: Oh, I left them at the club... :p

Onmilo
August 19, 2005, 10:21 AM
Club Strippers or clip strippers or can one strip a clip with a joint????? :barf:

c_yeager
August 19, 2005, 11:34 AM
Clip" gets used because writers who don't know diddley doo about firearms heard the term once and think using it makes them sound knowledgeable ... little suspecting that the exact opposite is true.

The fact that several firearms manufacturers and parts of the military "misuse" the term as well doesnt help much.

erh
August 19, 2005, 12:01 PM
(Tory - Correction made): People are often wrong; i.e. mis or non firearms educated.

A "Clip" is an item used to hold ammunition stationary, stored, (and/ or ready) to be fired by means of NO moving parts, only mechanical tension is involved. (For instance a "Half Moon" clip, stripper clip, M-1 en bloc, etc...)

A magazine is for basically the same purpose(S), however this DOES have mechanical tension, and moving parts. Handgun, rifle, shotgun, chain-gun, whatever...

.02 cents by (erh) :rolleyes:

CAS700850
August 19, 2005, 12:13 PM
My son has a set of junior encyclopedias, and in the "gun" section, it described an "automatic handgun" (meaning semi-auto, hence the 1911 photo) as being a gun that fires a single round from its chamber, which is then mechanically removed, and a fresh round is then stripped from a clip into the chamber.

On the up-side, it never refers to guns as bad, only saying that they are dangerous and should not be handled without proper supervision from an adult.

Tory
August 19, 2005, 12:14 PM
"A 'Clip' is an item used to hold ammunition stationary and ready to be fired by means of NO moving parts, only mechanical tension is involved."

Don't think so. A clip holds ammunition ready to be fed into a magazine; it is NOT "ready to be fired" unless and until it is in a magazine.

Clips are a gun-specific magazine loading device. Think about it - how is ammo stored in a clip, whether it be a stripper clip of 7.62 x 39 for your SKS, .30-'06 for a Garand or 40 mm for a Bofors gun "ready to be fired?" :scrutiny:

MAGAZINES store and feed ammunition IN THE GUN as part of the loading process, whether it be automatic, semi-automatic, bold, lever or pump.

Now can we address the moronic practice of calling cartridges "bullets" and bullets "heads?" :rolleyes:

Henry Bowman
August 19, 2005, 12:34 PM
Back to the question of why it is so commonly misused . . . It is likely a combination of Clip gets used because it has fewer syllables than magazine. and tens of thousands of GIs retuning home after WWII, who in civilian life had only used revolvers and bolt action single shot rifles or break open shotguns (due to cost and popularity), had had "clip" drilled into their heads when being trained on and using the M1 Garand.

wallysparx
August 19, 2005, 01:49 PM
just wondering, has anything but the garand ever utilized the enbloc clip? and if not, why not? i personally have always like clips more than mags, cheaper and less bulky, and at least in my sks i can load them pretty fast.

entropy
August 19, 2005, 01:57 PM
read post #12 and #6, wallysparx. ;)

Jim K
August 19, 2005, 02:16 PM
A good distinction is that a clip serves only to hold a number of rounds for insertion into a magazine, and that a magazine feeds ammunition to the chamber by means of a spring-loaded follower. But that doesn't take into consideration magazines like the gravity fed magazines used with the Gatling gun. And then there are systems like the Hotchkiss "pan", and the Japanese machinegun that used clipped rifle ammo inserted into a hopper magazine.

Oh, well, just proves that there are exceptions to every rule.

Jim

erh
February 11, 2006, 02:12 PM
Half moon ----? M1 Garand rifle uses an en bloc ----?, etc... I believe you are mistaken...:neener: ... (erh)

Justin
February 11, 2006, 02:19 PM
Club Strippers or clip strippers or can one strip a clip with a joint????? :barf:


Yes, it is indeed possible to strip a clip with a joint, so long as it's a roach clip.

*rimshot*

TallPine
February 11, 2006, 02:24 PM
Magazine tho is, to be accurate, a spring loaded container that holds rounds of ammunition
But not all "magazines" are removable from the gun, such as tube feed magazines on lever actions and many .22 rifles. So I think "clip" became popular as a technically incorrect but widely understandable synonym for removable magazines.

Then there are the gun magazines commonly referred to as "rags" :p

I don't see the big snobby deal ... if you say "the clip for my 1911" everyone knows what you mean:rolleyes:

Clip seems to roll off the tongue easier. I suggest we coin a new slang for removable magazines, and call them "clicks" since that is the noise they make when you put them in your gun :D

antsi
February 11, 2006, 02:39 PM
"Clip" gets used because writers who don't know diddley doo about firearms heard the term once and think using it makes them sound knowledgeable ... little suspecting that the exact opposite is true.

I don't know about this. There are lots of people who certainly do know the difference, but still use the term sloppily.

In my office, we have a Canon photocopier. For some reason, lots of people call it a "Xerox machine." I try not to get too worked up about it ;)

TallPine
February 11, 2006, 02:46 PM
I try not to get too worked up about it
Me too. And for those that do, I offer them a Kleenex :D

akodo
February 11, 2006, 06:57 PM
"A 'Clip' is an item used to hold ammunition stationary and ready to be fired by means of NO moving parts, only mechanical tension is involved."


Don't think so. A clip holds ammunition ready to be fed into a magazine; it is NOT "ready to be fired" unless and until it is in a magazine.



I disagree. A clip need not feed ammunition into a magazine. Take for instance the moon clips used with revolvers. The clip exists to hold 3 or 6 cartridges together, so they can all be loaded or removed at once.

Stickjockey
February 11, 2006, 06:58 PM
Yes, it is indeed possible to strip a clip with a joint, so long as it's a roach clip.

:confused:

>ponders loading roaches into an en-bloc...<

:scrutiny:

































;)

carebear
February 11, 2006, 07:34 PM
If your M1 has roaches in it, the only real solution is to get yourself a Black <chamber> Flag.

AFhack
February 11, 2006, 07:52 PM
Just to cloud the waters a tiny bit more... "magazine" had an even older firearm-related meaning, i.e. A place where ammunition was stored. Revolutionary war forts had "magazines" as did most armed sailing ships.

bigun15
February 11, 2006, 08:21 PM
Me too. And for those that do, I offer them a Kleenex :D

And if they get hurt, offer them a band-aid.

joab
February 11, 2006, 08:27 PM
Magazine tho is, to be accurate, a spring loaded container that holds rounds of ammunitionNo springs in the revolving magazine of a revolver
(just to muddy the waters a little more)

Kilrain
February 11, 2006, 08:41 PM
I remember my shop teacher in high school would scold you for calling an adjustable end wrench a Crescent wrench......unless it was, in fact, a Crescent brand wrench.

Go figure.......:D

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