[dk-corriveau]

With regard to CCW, what exactly does the term "Shall Issue" mean? I see it used alot and I know that it's better to be in a shall issue state than not. I guess my confusion is that New York is not considered a "shall issue" state, yet I know that you can carry concealed there, so they DO issue permits.

Please clarify! :confused:

Thanks!

[Stand_Watie]

I'll have a try at it

"Shall issue" means that the state ccw law is written so that it requires the issuing authority (state police, county sheriff or whatever) to issue you a permit to carry if you meet xyz requirements.

[Jayb]

Stand_Watie did a good job, and I'd add this.....

Some states allow the issuing authority to require a reason for wanting/needing to carry. Shall Issue states can't ask that question. In Indiana, our legal code requires a concealed carry permit to be issued to any "proper person".... that is any person over 18, not legally prevented from ownership of a handgun.

If you're real curious..... the Indiana Law re gun permits

http://www.ai.org/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar47/ch2.html

[geekWithA.45]

The opposite of "shall issue" is "discretionary issue", which means that some designated person (judge, sheriff, police chief, etc) can arbitrarily decide that your reasons for carrying aren't good enough, and deny your permit.

Typically, they set a high standard for "need", such that general personal defense, absent a clear and present danger (ie: a notarized letter from Al-Q notifying you of the time and place of their proposed attempt to kill you) isn't deemed sufficient.

The results tend towards one of two patterns:

Systematic, Statewide Denial: NJ, MD, etc

or

"It depends on your issuing authority": CA, MA and other places have a mix of generally issuing or generally non issuing authorities, depending on your city/county/town/whatever.

[jacobtowne]

I'd add Hawaii to the de facto no-issue list.
You are exactly right about Mass. The issuing authority is the local police, so ease of obtaining a License to Carry varies widely.
JT

[dk-corriveau]

Thanks for the explanation. I am currently waiting for my CCW, but fortunately I live in Virginia so it should just be a matter of time.

The thing that I find interesting is that local authorities have the ability to determine who does or doesn't get a permit. My instinct says that from a legal point of view you would want a single standard that is evenly applied throughout the state. That being said, it probably would not be the best result for gun owners.

[brickeyee]

Up until a few years ago Virginia was a "may issue" state. The local judges had the power to refuse to issue permits for whatever reason they dreamed up. It got bad enough that Oliver North was denied a renewal by a judge who questioned his character following the Iran Contra trials despite the charges being dismissed.
A law was passed that made Virginia concealed permits uniform statewide and changing the law to 'shall issue'. Even after that a number of localities trying playing games by charging more $ than allowed, demanding separate payment for each potion of the fees, demanding cash, anything they could think of (Arlington County was a big player in the fee games).
The law was amended to more tightly define the fees and how they could be paid (any form accepted by the jurisdictions courts for payment of fees, including personal checks). The time to process was also reduced from 90 days to 45 days, and the fingerprint rules made a local option (though they cannot charge more).
Arlington still likes to skirt the law as much as it can by sitting on approvals till the 45th day before mailing the notice out.
The most recent change in the law clarifies that you can carry a concealed weapon into the parking lot of a school to pick up and drop off the kids.
All local laws have also been pre-empted by a uniform state law, and no jurisdiction below the state may pass any new gun laws.
It took a lot of time and money, but things are much better.

[Gray Peterson]

Systematic Statewide Denial States: NJ, MD, HI, and IA as a non-resident

Depends on area: California, Massachusetts, Delaware, New York, Rhode Island, Iowa as a resident.

CCW prohibited: Illinois, Kansas, Nebraska, Wisconsin

[GlenJ]

Great explanation Brickeyee. Here in anti gun Chesapeake before it turned Shall issue only the judges, politicians and there families had concealed carry permits. As it is now my renewal sat on some judges desk until the last minute.

[Monkeyleg]

There's one state that some consider shall-issue and others consider discretionary-issue. It's either Connecticut or Alabama, can't remember which.

[kbr80]

Shall Issue


Others have defined it quite well.

To me, shall issue is: You have to ask permission to be able to carry a Firearm for defense, and we (the governement) "SHALL ISSUE" you the permisson slip to do so, if you meet all OUR requirements.

[GT]

Monkeyeg, CT is the odd one out.

In CT you can buy a long gun without a permit but you can't buy a handgun without a permit.
The handgun permit also uniquely functions as a concealed carry permit.
The law says you SHOULD be issued a permit unless you fail the usual requirements (felon etc).
Theoretically you could be refused a permit for some other reason, but the appeal process is very well defined so in almost every case the permit is issued.
This makes it not quite shall issue but not really discretionary.

I will let you know when (and if) my permit is granted :)

G

[rms/pa]

and PA is a horse of a slightly different color.

no state permit needed to own/buy (handgun transfers require PASP check) anything.

LTCF allows open carry in PHILA(YMMV) and concealed statewide.

persons not prohibited from owning firearms apply to the county sherrif for a LTCF which must be issued unless the sherrif issues a denial letter with reason for denial (which can be appealed)

only no carry areas are fed restrictions and courtrooms, schools and stateparks are debateable.

rms/pa

[geekWithA.45]

The way I heard PA described was as "In PA, RKBA is more or less treated as a right".

And I'd say that's more or less accurate. ;)

AFAIK, CT is de-facto shall issue. The structure of CT's law allows some wiggle room for arbitrary denial, but the courts and review process actually seems to work as intended and prevents significant abuse by the authorities.

This is a fascinating contrast with the usual state of affairs in other states with similiar structures wherein the result is de-facto won't issue.

[rms/pa]

geekwitha45 said
The way I heard PA described was as "In PA, RKBA is more or less treated as a right".

you got it....... the less is PHILA,downtown York,
and Okland PITT. the more is the rest of the state.

rms/pa