Officer accidentally shoots foot while at nuclear plant training


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Insectguy
August 19, 2005, 08:04 AM
Wednesday, August 17, 2005
Officer accidentally shoots foot while at nuclear plant training
Injury was not life-threatening
Wednesday, August 17, 2005
A woman accidentally shot herself in the foot last week at the Monticello Nuclear Generating Plant’s shooting range.
The injury was non-life-threatening. The woman’s name was not released.
The incident happened about 5:45 p.m. Wednesday, Aug. 10, said MNGP spokeswoman Kelli Huxford. The woman, a Wackenhut
security officer who works at the Prairie Island Nuclear Generating Plant in Red Wing, was in Monticello for training on the plant’s
shooting range.
Huxford said the woman was practicing at the range when a hot shell casing popped out of her gun and went down the back of
her shirt.
As she attempted to remove the casing, she accidentally pressed the trigger of her weapon, shooting herself in the foot, Huxford
said.
Monticello and Prairie Island plant employees at the range, who are trained as EMTs, administered first aid until a Monticello-Big
Lake Ambulance arrived. The security officer was transported to Monticello-Big Lake Community Hospital and later transferred to
North Memorial Medical Center in Robbinsdale. She was released late last week.
“She is expected to make a full recovery,” Huxford said. “It was an unfortunate thing, but she’s going to be fine. That’s the most
important thing right now.”
Huxford said Prairie Island security officers come up to Monticello for training and certification because the Prairie Island plant
does not have a shooting range of its own. The officers from both plants frequently train together on various exercises, she added.
This is the first time such an accidental shooting has occurred in Monticello, Huxford said. Both Monticello and Prairie Island
reported the incident to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission

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stevelyn
August 19, 2005, 08:09 AM
I wonder which hurt worse, the hot cartridge case going down her back or the hot bullet going through her foot?

El Tejon
August 19, 2005, 08:44 AM
Dance of the Hot Scorpion!

Fly320s
August 19, 2005, 08:51 AM
I wonder which hurt worse, the hot cartridge case going down her back or the hot bullet going through her foot?
Probably the taunting from her peers after she recovers. :neener: :D

Onmilo
August 19, 2005, 09:28 AM
I'm betting the accidental discharge involved a Glock handgun.
My buddy worked at one of those plants as a security operative and left after they armed the guards with Glocks.
Seems guards were a.d.ing on a weekly basis with those guns, one almost shot the Chief of Security which guaranteed comprehensive mandatory firearms safety training.
It appears the training has not improved anything.
My buddy hates Glocks and carries a Sig on duty.
I still like Glocks,,,,, :rolleyes:

mfree
August 19, 2005, 09:52 AM
Wackenhut, here anyways, equals Sig 226.

KevinB
August 19, 2005, 10:02 AM
I really doubt it would of made any difference what type of handgun it was, glock or not. She was so focused on that hot brass instead of muzzle control and trigger discipline, I believe the same thing would have happened had it been a Sig, H&K, 1911 or anything else. I don't own a glock, nor am I a huge fan, I just think its silly that some people claim that glocks cause N.D.'s.

-Kevin

molonlabe
August 19, 2005, 10:04 AM
Yup gotta be the glocks. Their the only handgun that seem to ND when.
A- You have it loaded
B- You have your finger on the trigger
C- You actually squeeze the trigger
And damm it someone always seems to get hurt when they are pointed in an unsafe direction.

I don't know when the Goverment will wise up and ban them there Glocks :rolleyes:

AD to ND

foghornl
August 19, 2005, 10:13 AM
OOOOOHHHH I FEEL so safe now.

GEM
August 19, 2005, 11:19 AM
Could have been reflexive before you had a chance to contemplate the safety rules.

I once got bopped on the head by a 50 AE casing. I was standing well behind the line and it bounced off the side of a stall at an angle I couldn't see and nailed me between the eyes. Ouch!

AK-74me
August 19, 2005, 11:27 AM
I work in Nuclear Security at another plant and we got an OE (operating experience) email on this about a week ago. I think I remember it was an AR-15 she was using. That is the impression I got from reading the email anyway. Our people addressed the hot casing down the shirt issue a few years ago when they realized it could be a problem. We now have to wear billed ball caps and tight fitting clothing with no collar when we are at the range.

BTW we carry SIG-226 9mm and Colt AR's and we spend lots of time on the range, we have and on-site range and we spend far more time then the local PD(excluding SWAT) on firearms training.

Henry Bowman
August 19, 2005, 11:27 AM
At least she [probably] didn't precede it with, "I'm the only one in this room professional enough . . .."

AK-74me
August 19, 2005, 11:43 AM
Ahhh ok I found the Email it was an Armalite AR-10 rifle

RavenVT100
August 19, 2005, 12:06 PM
Holy, that's gotta hurt so much worse in the foot than a handgun round.

Was she the only person there who was professional enough to carry that AR-10?

jcoiii
August 19, 2005, 12:48 PM
LOL at HB! I've seen that one too. DOH!

Wanna know what they told us at the range during my academy?

"If a piece of hot brass goes into your shirt, suck it up, holster up, and step back off the line. Do not do anything til you've holstered!!" Can't tell you how many casings I got hit with over three days and 1500 rounds per person. Probably 50-100. Had a few stick in my shirt. Oh well, finish my shots for that round, then deal with the brass. Can't call off in the middle b/c a piece of brass fell in your shirt.

AK-74me
August 19, 2005, 02:16 PM
According to what I read she was holding the rifle with the sling around her. When the brass entered her shirt she let it fall with the sling catching it. Now whether or not the trigger got pulled by her finger or some of her equipment I don't know but obviously she didn't put the weapon on safe first.

LaVere
August 19, 2005, 02:31 PM
At the range the other day and a .40SW case bounced off the side wall of the stall and hopped over eyeglasses and burned in a micro second. I do recall that I kept the hand gun down range in my shooting hand and flicked off the glasses with my other hand. It was a auto reflex action. The burn is now looking good after a week now.
I like the suggestion about the ball cap. From now on I'll use one. We had ball caps in the Army and now I know why :cool:


http://lavere.net/Gallery/albums/Holding-picture/DSC_1534.sized.jpg

Andrew Rothman
August 19, 2005, 02:44 PM
I got brand new cloth baseball caps (Super Bowl XXXVI, I think) four for a dollar at a flea market. I keep them in my range bag for guests to use.

I've actually approached a pretty young thing at the range and suggested most deferentially that hot brass, curvy girls and scoop necks just don't mix. She thanked me and put on a windbreaker.

I like to think I did my part to prevent the desecration of a work of art.

JamisJockey
August 19, 2005, 03:08 PM
I'm betting the accidental discharge involved a Glock handgun.

Reread the original post.


she accidentally pressed the trigger of her weapon

That would be an ND, or Negligent Discharge. She pulled the fking trigger, it didn't go off by itself.


:banghead:

Hardware
August 20, 2005, 02:24 AM
Not nearly as good a story but...

Pre-9/11 I was working a computer project for the local power company. Everybody on the project had to fill out a federal background check in order to enter a nuclear generation facility. If that check had gotten more thorough there would have had to have been a nurse in the room. :)

Anyhow, I show up for my first day at the nuclear plant and got the security orientation from a nice lady. Very clear instructions, empty pockets into giant petri dish which takes it through the X-ray machine. Step into bomb sniffer, wait for green light. At green light proceed to metal detector, etc. There was a gentleman on our team named Assam. Nice man of Middle Eastern origin, he actually became a citizen during the course of the project. Well, he had this quirk about not liking to take direction from ladies.

So, second day on the job and the first day we have to pass through security on our own. As I'm walking into the security building I see Assam walking toward the building. I go through the rigamarole of getting through security. As I am getting my ID from security Assam enters the building. Passes by the belt for the X-ray machine where you were supposed to empty your pockets and walks through the bomb sniffer. Well, the alarms start going off and the Middle Eastern man puts his oversized laptop bag down inside the security area and runs back through the bomb sniffer and into the lobby area. Meanwhile security officers packing MP-5s and Berrett 92s come pouring out of the security office screaming at Assam to get down on the floor.

In my most manly fashion I hunkered down behind the security kiosk until the shouting was over. No shots fired, Assam was only slightly mussed. Made for a two donut morning and an interesting story though. :eek: :)

AK-74me
August 20, 2005, 04:06 AM
Well, the alarms start going off and the Middle Eastern man puts his oversized laptop bag down inside the security area and runs back through the bomb sniffer and into the lobby area. Meanwhile security officers packing MP-5s and Berrett 92s come pouring out of the security office screaming at Assam to get down on the floor.

So he alarms the explosive detector, then upon doing so he sets down a bag full of electrontics in the screening area and runs back through the explosive detectors backwards? He is lucky all he got was a good yelling at, if that doesn't look suspicious I don't know what is.

mfree
August 22, 2005, 10:20 AM
Ok, ok... *** was Assam thinking?

Onmilo
August 22, 2005, 11:56 AM
I reread the post, no need to cuss or bang your head on a wall.
You call it a politically correct "negligent discharge" I call it an "accidental discharge", same-same whatever you wish to call it.
All the other ADs that occured involved somebody stupidly pulling the trigger at an inappropriate time because firearms don't generally go off for no apparent reason and playing nomenclature games doesn't change the fact that accidents are caused by negligence.

molonlabe
August 22, 2005, 12:03 PM
Yup gotta be the AR10's. Their the only Rifle that seem to ND when.
A- You have it loaded
B- You have your finger on the trigger
C- You actually squeeze the trigger
And damm it someone always seems to get hurt when they are pointed in an unsafe direction.

I don't know when the Goverment will wise up and ban them there AR10"s


Changed AD to ND

Byron Quick
August 22, 2005, 12:16 PM
I shoot at a rifle range on the Yuchi Wildlife Management Area about two miles from the Plant Vogtle Nuclear Plant. Plant security officers also use the range. I must say that I am not impressed with their level of training.

Two of them, a man and a woman, were practicing with an AR15. Overhearing their conversation, they were practicing for qualification with the weapon. But they couldn't get the weapons zeroed correctly. After a while, I took pity, and moseyed on over and showed them how to adjust the front sight.


What level of training were they receiving when they didn't even know how to adjust the front sight? I avoid all contact with that plant's security force. I'm afraid I might appear to be suspicious to them.

Janitor
August 22, 2005, 01:20 PM
I reread the post, no need to cuss or bang your head on a wall.
You call it a politically correct "negligent discharge" I call it an "accidental discharge", same-same whatever you wish to call it.
All the other ADs that occured involved somebody stupidly pulling the trigger at an inappropriate time because firearms don't generally go off for no apparent reason and playing nomenclature games doesn't change the fact that accidents are caused by negligence.
There is a real difference between an accidental and a neglegent discharge.

There are true accidental discharges. For instance - the firing pin jaming in a forward position and every round after the first slam fires turning your nice, safe 1911 into a class III weapon.

If your finger is on the trigger when it shouldn't be, and the gun goes off, it's an ND, not an AD. If it's not caused by the gun or other equipment breaking or behaving in a fashion nobody would have predicted, it's neglegent.

You can rail against nomenclature all you like - but the way we use terms is the way we use terms. Up is up, and down is down. It has nothing at all to do with being politically correct. It has to do with using common terms the same way others do.

TheEgg
August 22, 2005, 04:30 PM
Huxford said the woman was practicing at the range when a hot shell casing popped out of her gun and went down the back of
her shirt.
As she attempted to remove the casing, she accidentally pressed the trigger of her weapon, shooting herself in the foot, Huxford
said.

If you don't have enough self control to suck it up when you have a silly piece of hot brass down your shirt long enough to safe your weapon and put it down before you go diving into your clothes for the brass, you have no business even shooting guns, much less being a security agent of any kind. :cuss:

Janitor
August 22, 2005, 04:37 PM
While that sounds a bit harsh, I think you're right. How hard is it, how long does it really take to make a weapon safe? Learn to play with pain. What happens when a toe gets stubbed in a firefight?

Thinking about it, she's pretty lucky. What if her first reaction during all of that was to hold the gun pointing to the side, sweeping one of her mates?

JamisJockey
August 22, 2005, 05:44 PM
I reread the post, no need to cuss or bang your head on a wall.
You call it a politically correct "negligent discharge" I call it an "accidental discharge", same-same whatever you wish to call it.
All the other ADs that occured involved somebody stupidly pulling the trigger at an inappropriate time because firearms don't generally go off for no apparent reason and playing nomenclature games doesn't change the fact that accidents are caused by negligence.

No "PC" to it. There is a real difference between the two, let me enlighten you.

An accidental discharge involves a discharge beyond your control. A defect, a dropped gun, the thumbreak snagging on a Glock trigger on the way into the holster....
A Negligent Discharge involves some idiot pulling the trigger when it shouldn't be pulled.

Now, you're no longer ignorant.

Cosmoline
August 22, 2005, 05:48 PM
Wait a minute.

There's a SHOOTING RANGE at the nuclear power plant?

:what:

To paraphrase Sean Connery's character in "Red October", "There's a lot of things there that react badly to bullets."

carebear
August 22, 2005, 07:35 PM
Cosmo,

I assume the backstop isn't the containment vessel. :evil:

Course, it is probably the toughest thing there....... :scrutiny:

Orthonym
August 22, 2005, 08:47 PM
I mind the time I was shooting a friend's .58 Enfield replica and a bee got excited about the smell of the bullet lube. (Mostly beeswax) I immediately said to friend, "Take the weapon, NOW.", while carefully not pointing it at anything valuable.

I wanted to shoo the bee away without having to think about what I was going to do with that there antique, but deadly, weapon.

The bee went away after a while.

This was before those nasty African bees got here.

Mnemesyne
August 22, 2005, 08:56 PM
I can sympathize with the whole hot brass thing, except mine was during my qualification for my ccw class and went down the front of my shirt o.O....not only did I maintain proper muzzle direction, but I finished my shot and then still kept the gun pointing at the target while using the other hand to lift the shirt to remove it from between me and the center piece on the bra lol....After I fished it out, I finished shooting...Funny thing was, no one on the line noticed I had been the recipient of the "hot brass dance" :-)

Worst part is, my husband works for this same company as a guard in a different state...his comment to the story was "and I work for these people???"

Mind you...he's a Navy vet and a 2yr police science degree holder.....I certainly hope they do the smart thing and remove her from that facility....


Mneme

Orthonym
August 22, 2005, 09:01 PM
I don't have the book (Starship Troopers) before me, but I think I remember reading that Juan Rico got punished for reacting to some ants which were biting him in a training exercise. He was supposed to just suck it up and ignore them.

Firearms are *Deadly Weapons*, dangit!

One would hope that firearms training includes the notion of ignoring unimportant stuff, no matter what physical sensation happens, in favor of paying attention to things that really matter. Owhell.

Ryder
August 22, 2005, 09:33 PM
We have to realize we are being burned, make safe, set the gun down, and then remove the hot brass? It isn't going to be hot enough to bother with after all that. They cool down pretty fast. Maybe she was thinking hurry up and get it while it's still hot. :evil:

Can I get a special exemption to just keep shooting and ignore this miniscule pain as I've done numerous times in the past? Chalk it up to my sense of adventure or something.

Bet she doesn't think that brass was all that hot now, does she. Glad she only shot herself.

AK-74me
August 22, 2005, 10:12 PM
Wait a minute.

There's a SHOOTING RANGE at the nuclear power plant?

Ofcourse there are! Many nuke planks own several thousands of acres, many times most of which is wildlife refuges ect.... why shouldn't they build there own range. At our plant we have a very nice range with 200 yd. elevated postions, 100 yd. elevated postions, 75 yd, 50 yd with elevated, 25, 15, 10, 7, and 3. We have baricades that simulate plant equipment, simulated defensive positions, smoke machines the whole 9 yards. It is like a 1/2 mile from any plant equipment. Local PD is always trying to use our range.

Byron,

just like any thing else there is a big variation from plant to plant in the knowledge and training recieved on firearms, like police depts. from what I understand. We are very lucky where I work we have knowledgable instructors and for the most part the Security Force members have intrest in firearms. We recieve 40 hrs of range time quaterly, and that does not include FATS training and other Force on Force training we do using MILES gear.

When asked I have told many people what I do and most don't know the difference between what I do and Mall security, then I tell them how much I made last year and they are asking me to get try to get them an interview. But again the pay varies widely based on where you are located and if you work for private or federal facality, I see in FL. they get paid next to nothing but here in MD and in NY we make a couple times what the local LEO's make.

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