Help Getting Girl to Use Cheek Weld


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BlackCat
August 19, 2005, 01:27 PM
Guys, I have a bit of a problem... A female friend of mine is interested in shooting/firearms/hunting. Before we go any further I will say she has completed the state sponsored firearms safety training. I've let her shoot two of my guns, on three seperate occasions. A Ruger 10/22 carbine, and a S&W 4" .38 special revolver. She does everything right with the pistol.

She does about everything perfectly with the rifle. Takes her time, watches her muzzle direction, squeezes the trigger far better than I ever do even. She hits what she shoots for the most part. Did I mention she's young and pretty? Well anyway...

My problem is she won't put her cheek on the stock. She uses some excuse of not being able to see the sights as well like this. I tell her this is about the most important part of gunning, but she's convinced that since she can still sometimes hit the target it's fine for her. "I shoot just fine." I told her that she would be way better with a proper cheek weld. I was thinking of bringing out a couple of rifles with Monte Carlo stocks and seeing if that helps, I have another 10/22 and a Remmy Model 700 but then I'm not sure she's ready for an '06. I don't know what to do. Help!

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Shaun
August 19, 2005, 01:30 PM
show her the difference it makes also she may be afraid of the recoil -- I know in many cases that is usually the issue. Have you tried showing her how to properly hug the rifle to her to prevent recoil pain.

Eskimo Jim
August 19, 2005, 01:36 PM
I'd take it easy with her. She could be right. I have a rifle with a high comb which forces me to essentially bury my cheek into the stock or vice versa. I have other rifles where the comb hardly touches my cheek.

Try the monte carlo stock with her. Federal and other manufacturers now make soft recoil .30-06 ammunition which might be worth a try.

-Jim

BlackCat
August 19, 2005, 01:39 PM
I've gotten her to use a half-ways cheek weld for like two shots, but she always reverts back to her training I guess. I don't know who taught her to shoot that way, but it gives me pain.

She can't be scared of the recoil of a .22 Ruger, especially mine weighted down with stuff, shooting off of a Harris bi-pod on a pickup hood. She's right handed and this is with open sights.

She has fired a heavier rifle before, a long time ago she said. I'm guessing a 30-30 or so when she was 10-12, which could be the reason she's worried about this. Old habits are hard to break.

I will look for some Remington or Federal reduced recoil '06 ammo next time I'm out and about. I can also let her try my Winchester 94-22 which has a real high comb and a scope.

Henry Bowman
August 19, 2005, 01:45 PM
Just because the stock fits you doesn't mean it fits her. The stock (comb) needs to fit her, not the other way around.

Try building up the comb with some temporary padding for her. Once you/she get a fit, you can look for a pad or adjustable comb for the stock.

waterhouse
August 19, 2005, 01:48 PM
basically what everyone else said, make sure the stock fits her.

I used to take a lot of girls shooting for their first time, but when they all ended up shooting better than me I just gave up :D

Scoupe
August 19, 2005, 02:39 PM
I'd let her be. She's having fun right now. No need to kill any enthusiasm by insisting she do it "right". You've said she's a safe handler, so the most important thing is already done. Once she desires to really get better, then worry about how good of a check weld she has on a stock that fits her.

spacemanspiff
August 19, 2005, 03:21 PM
maybe let her get used to the feel of a rifle away from the range? let her practice shouldering it, from various postions (seated, prone, etc) and get used to it before having to deal with recoil.

perhaps she is more comfortable shooting that way? and if she is indeed hitting what she aims at, maybe it isnt a big deal. now, lets get into a bit more detail. what kind of groups is she getting? if you tell her to aim for a particalar target can she hit it on the first shot? or does she 'walk' the shots to the intended target?

i'm sure you have already explained to her that the only absolutely positive way to be sure of where that bullet is going is to hold it properly, have it firmly seated against the shoulder, use the cheekweld, and look through the sights. quite often inexperienced shooters will be shooting over the backstop because they don't understand how to hold their weapon.

Justin
August 19, 2005, 03:41 PM
I have to agree with those who say that the stock doesn't fit her.

I've got somewhat high cheekbones, and I can't get a good cheek weld on an AR15 stock. If I try to get a "proper" cheek weld on an AR stock, I end up looking right at the back of the charging handle.

bogie
August 19, 2005, 03:49 PM
Uh... I just hang on to a rifle however is the most comfortable. And with benchrest rifles, all I'm holding is the handgrip, with the butt in my shoulder - If my cheek touches the stock, I get fliers.

GRB
August 19, 2005, 04:05 PM
My problem is she won't put her cheek on the stock. I have to wonder, from the way you worded this, is she bringinging the stock to her cheek then to her shoulder or is she doing what I suspect and bringing the stock to her shoulder first. The latter is, in my opinion, a bad mistake and; it is often a reason why many people wind up believing that a stock does not fit them when in fact it fits good enough. If someone brings the stock to the shoulder and sets it in where it feels comfortable, they often have to lower their head to the stock to get a good cheek/stock connection. This puts the head at an akward angle, allows the cheekbone to get hurt while shooting, puts strain on the neck, and usually makes for much poorer shooting.

If on the other hand the shooter raises the stock up to the cheek, to the proper level, then slides the stock straight back into the shoulder you will find a fit for most shooter with almost any available commerically made non-customized stock. (I often shoot with only about an inch and a half or two inches of stock on my shoulder, depending on the firearm, and it does not effect shooting negatively at all so long as the stock is properly on my cheek.) If she is not doing it as I described, have her give it a try. Chances are her shooting will improve, aching necks and cheekbones will probably not occur, and the shooter is much happier.

Of course you could already have her doing it this way, then maybe it is either a poor fit because of her size or just her being stubborn and insisting on shooting her way.

Oh, one other thing to look for: which is her dominant eye? Is she using a right hand hold whiule trying to shoot by aiming with a left side dominant eye? If so she either needs to shoot a left handed rifle or to make her eyes change which is dominant, or sight in with right eye while left is kept closed. (Other way around if she is shooting lefty already.)


Best regards,
Glenn B

Dave Markowitz
August 19, 2005, 04:30 PM
I'll second the point about checking for eye dominance. ASSuming she's shooting from the right shoulder, she may be trying to her aim with her left eye (vice-versa if she's firing from the left shoulder).

Control Group
August 19, 2005, 04:57 PM
I often shoot with only about an inch and a half or two inches of stock on my shoulder, depending on the firearm, and it does not effect shooting negatively at all so long as the stock is properly on my cheek
*boggle*

I'm far, far from being an experienced rifle shooter, so probably I'm full of it, but...I have to say, the idea of firing my Mosin M44 with the center of the butt right against bone frightens me.

Preacherman
August 19, 2005, 05:48 PM
Guys, you're making the typical American mistake here. The "cheek weld" is a largely American invention. In Europe, one often sees shooters use what I'd call a "chin weld", with their cheeks well above the stocks. It works just as well as the "cheek weld", and offers no less accuracy. A "cheek weld" is not always a good thing, depending as it does on the shape and size of your face, the dimensions and height of the stock, etc. It is not, repeat, NOT, essential to good marksmanship, and anyone who says that you can't be accurate without it doesn't know what they're talking about.

spacemanspiff
August 19, 2005, 06:09 PM
blasphemy! how dare you say that anything contrived by the europeans can actually work!!!

:D

mnrivrat
August 19, 2005, 06:15 PM
Nothing fits me worse than the standard stock of the 10/22 when trying to use its iron sights.

That said - I would advise you that trying to get her to shoot it your way, may not be the answer.

entropy
August 19, 2005, 06:16 PM
:D Funny, spaceman spiff! It all depends on the stock and how it fits me. Some guns, like my 870 (and just about any other Remington similarly designed) will pop up perfectly without having to worry about cheek weld. Some like my Yugo SKS I shoot better with the 'chin weld' method Preacherman mentioned. Two differing stock measurements, two different holds, FWIW. ;)

LiquidTension
August 19, 2005, 06:29 PM
I had a gf that put down an MP5 after one shot because she didn't like the recoil against her cheek. Maybe your lady friend is having similar feelings? I can't imagine having to crane my neck over far enough to see the sights without touching the stock...that would be a short day at the range.

scout26
August 19, 2005, 06:43 PM
Buddy of mine has a Henry Golden Boy (.22) that he mounted a scope on. I have to rest my jaw on the stock to see through the scope.

She needs a stock that fits her.



Time to have her go buy her own gun !!!! :D :D

GRB
August 19, 2005, 07:13 PM
I'm far, far from being an experienced rifle shooter, so probably I'm full of it, but...I have to say, the idea of firing my Mosin M44 with the center of the butt right against bone frightens me.The worst place I can think of to place the butt of a high powered rifle, or of a shotgun, is against the muscle mass. This leads to lots of shoulder injuries the least of which are bruises. The pocket in the collar bone is a great place to rest any rifle or shotgun butt. Try it after being shown the proper, you will be surprised.

Guys, you're making the typical American mistake here. The "cheek weld" is a largely American invention. In Europe, one often sees shooters use what I'd call a "chin weld", with their cheeks well above the stocks.As far a cheek weld versus chinn weld goes - the term has been used lightly herein, at least by me. The point is if the rifle or shotgun comes up to meet the side of the face then goes to the shoulder you will fit the gun better to your physique. You must make sure though that the stock comes up high enough. There is one thing though about just a chin on the stock - again you have to bend the neck an inordinate amount to be able to sight the firearm. You want the rifle or shotgun against your face so that you barely have to bend toward it in order to sight correctly.

best regards,
Glenn B

Sunray
August 19, 2005, 07:48 PM
"...she won't put her cheek on the stock..." The stock doesn't fit her. She's likely getting smacked on the cheek bone.

JohnKSa
August 19, 2005, 09:31 PM
Just thinking out of the box... She may be worried that it will mess up her makeup.

It's also possible that she got bruised once and doesn't want to risk it again.

MechAg94
August 19, 2005, 10:19 PM
Unless she is pushing you about getting better, leave it alone. That last thing you want to do is nag her about it. If she is having fun, let it go. It is not that serious in my opinion. I have never put any serious thought into cheek welds. My cheek does contact the stock simply because I couldn't look down the sights otherwise. Maybe I am doing it right since my Dad taught me that way. I am not sure exactly what some of you are talking about.

I always rest the butt on muscle if I can. Hurts my shoulder if rest on bone. I got a little bruised at first when I hadn't been shooting much. I have been shooting quite a bit this year and am having no problems. Each to his own I guess.

GRB
August 19, 2005, 11:49 PM
"...she won't put her cheek on the stock..." The stock doesn't fit her. She's likely getting smacked on the cheek bone.Like was said - she is now shooting a Ruger 10/22. She may be afraid based on past experience but it is highly unlikely that any rifle firing .22LR rounds is hurting her cheek since the recoil is negligible. Anyone can hold a rifle the wrong way so it does not connect properly and, while this could be because of poor stock to shooter fit, this does not necesarrily mean the stock does not fit good enough to hold it correctly. It could very easily just be bad habit. The technique should be looked at as much, or more, than the stock fit - especially if she is an average sized woman.

best regards,
Glenn B

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