[MP-44]

I see Wal-Mart has them for $399. IIRC, you can get 10rd after market mags for them. How rugged are they? Other than the larger caliber how would they compare to a Mini-14 as a SHTF rifle?

[mustanger98]

In a SHTF situation, any weapon beats nothing. That said, I wouldn't suggest a 740, 742, or 7400. I've heard of too many of them having major problems such as being jam-o-matics, plus, plus they're built to be a pretty hunting rifle and not for the sustained firing you may need when SHTF. It's a nice one to hang on the wall and look at. If you want a SHTF rifle, I suggest M1, M14/M1A, SKS, K98k, Lee Enfield, etc. Or, there's the Mini-14 loaded with M193 ball in good working 20 and 30 round mags, which would be my pick other than a M1 or levergun. Levergun... now there's the ticket...

[fisherman66]

What is a cilivilian weapon?

[MachIVshooter]

I have actually been working with a CNC company to produce a prototype polycarbonate bullpup stock and 25 round mags for the .30-06 carbine 7400 (18.5" tube). I'll let you know how it turns out (could still be awhile).

[rbernie]

From personal experience - buying a WallyWorld 'SP' finished 7400 and slapping in an Eagle 10 round magazine will NOT give you anything close to a SHTF/uber-tactical rifle. It will give you a rifle with mediocre accuracy, dubious reliability (in large part due to the fact that the magazines are so hit-n-miss) and with all of the ergonomics of a broken-glass-encrusted cinder block.

[Fingolfin]

I have a 7400 in .30-06 and would not recommend it to anyone. Despite being gas operated it's a bear to shoot, a pain to clean, and the accuracy is subpar. Not bad for a semi-auto for the price, but wouldn't try to make it into something it's not. Mine has never failed to cycle though or fire. A .223 version that took AR-15 mags, priced the same, would be interesting though.

[miko]

I considered 7400 and went with 7600 pump instead.
I shot one in 30-06 and it takes longer to get on target than it takes to pump-reload (with some practice).

You get a whole lot of benefits by sacrificing auto-loading - including being legal where semi-auto is not and ability to shoot different loads that may not cycle automatics.
Also, .243 is a better combat load than 30-06. If you need more power, .270 is much superior to 30-06.

miko

[goon]

Isn't Remington making a version of the 7600 in .223 that uses AR mags? That might be cool (for those of you who are stuck in less firearm friendly states anyhow).

[OEF_VET]

Isn't Remington making a version of the 7600 in .223 that uses AR mags?

Ask, and ye shall receive, Remington 7615P. (http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm)

[Rupestris]

Ask, and ye shall receive, Remington 7615P.

If that ugly thing was priced accordingly, I'd get one. Its too bad they cost as much as an entry level AR.

[Crosshair]

I'd probably go with a bolt gun before using a 7400, though people seem to like the 7600 very well.

[HankB]

I used to be a member of a private gun club that opened its doors to the public before hunting season. When working as a range safety officer, I got to see a LOT of different rifles come though the range each day.

Without a doubt, Remington made a lot . . . and I mean a LOT - of jammamatics.

Honestly, the majority worked OK, but the percentage of malfunctioning Remington autoloaders was well into double digits.

[benEzra]

There was a guy next to me at the range a while back shooting a Remington 7600 (or a 760, if there was such a thing) pump-action in .30-06. He was using Winchester Premium ammo (black box) and I couldn't believe the groups he was getting from the bench--easily 1/2 inch at 100 yards (smaller than my thumbnail, and I have small hands), and a group at 200 that I could have covered with a quarter. I wouldn't have believed it had I not watched him shoot it, and then walked down to the 100 and 200 yard targets with him to see them for myself.

I was shooting my SAR-1 at 50 and 100 with Wolf ammo, and he was very gracious about the, er, different sized groups he and I were shooting (i.e., 2.5-3 MOA for me). "That's not bad for open sights" he said, which I appreciated. But I surely was impressed with his rifle.

[bad LT]

Take a look at Browning BAR's for a similiar "cilivian weapon" - those I have seen have been more accurate and reliable than Remington 7400s.

[miko]

…a Remington 7600 … and I couldn't believe the groups he was getting from the bench--easily 1/2 inch at 100 yards…

What’s not to believe? With a free-floating barrel and no moving parts it should be expected to perform on par with a bolt-action of similar quality with a good factory ammo.
With reloads, one can only neck-size the bolt-action ammo and achieve a slight edge.

miko

[slopemeno]

The 760 and 7600 are sleepers in terms of accuracy. Every one I've shot has been very accurate, plus none of the 742's reliability issues.

The downsides, to me are having to choose between a dinkey mag capacity or a long mag right where I want to carry it. Seriously, would a double stack mag have been that hard?

[LeonCarr]

There is a local gun shop here in town that will not, under any circumstances, take a Remington 74/740/742/7400 semiauto in on trade, carry one in stock, or special order one for a customer. The owner of the shop hates them with a passion.

Every one that I know who owns one and likes it keeps it super clean and only shoots it about 10 times a year, to check zero or shoot an animal :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[roo_ster]

My 7400 chews up brass pretty bad: as in a bit of the rim gets ripped off.

[Dr.Rob]

Dad's old 760 can put three .30-06 bullets through the bottom of a dixie cup at 300 yards... I've seen him do it. It's not as accurate as a bolt gun... but it's plenty accurate enough for deer, elk and antelope. Zombies, werewloves, UN troops... who knows?

I don't know about the autos, but that pump gun rocks.

And I recall dad has a couple of steel 10 round magazine for it.

[miko]

I believe 760 did not have a fully-floating barrel, so 7600 should be a bit more accurate, everything else being equal.

miko

[MachIVshooter]

Also, .243 is a better combat load than 30-06. If you need more power, .270 is much superior to 30-06.

:confused:

[Dr.Rob]

Scratched my head on that one too...

OBVIOUS advantage of the .243/.308 is the shorter action... maybe a slightly faster lock time.

The skinny barrel heats up VERY fast... four-five shots and you will start stringing vertically

[miko]

I ment .243 would be a better combat load, not "is".

If I was designing from scratch, I would probably end up with a 6.5x48 case and 110 grain bullet but for "civilian weapon" we have to choose from the most common rounds that are available and .243 is my choice.

Bullet weight of 100-115 grains is plenty for antipersonnel applications. AK-47 bullet is what, 125 grains shot at 2300 fps? And how many people here swear by AK being an effective weapon?
The M-16 uses 62 grain bullet while .308 is 150-168.

.243 can throw 100-115 grain bullet at about 3000 fps. You get flat trajectory and very manageable recoil - with 105 grain at reasonable 2920 fps it is about 7% less than AK-47. Double the energy at 400 yards and drop at 400 same as AK at 300.
Much greater power than 62 grain 5.56.

For .308 bullet to equal the sectional density of 105 grain .243, the bullet would gave to be about 165 grains. The recoil would be much harder - over 40%.
The energy of .243 at 400 yards would be 20% lower than .308 (though greater than .223 at 100 yards) - but the cross-section would be 60% lower - resulting in better penetration. You also get 10 inches less bullet drop at 400 yards.

Besides, with magazines limited to 10 or even 5 rounds in some municipalities (NY State and NY City respectively), it makes sense to have every shot twice as powerfull.

Also, reloaders can manufacture .243 bullet jackets out of .22lr (or better yet .22wmr) cases - making them almost free, which helps when it comes to practice.

miko

[Andysguns]

I've had my 7400 carbine in 30-06 for a few years now. I initially just put on a nice scope and that was great for hunting. I could get a 3" group at 100yds. Not sniper quality, but good for me. I added a good 10rd mag and an Aim Point red dot (because where I hunt in MN is thick woods, hard to get a 100yd shot) and it bacame more fun to shoot. I then topped it off with a Knoxx Spec Ops, recoil suppression adjustable butstock. Now my group is a bout 4-5" at 100yds. Now all of this is pointing to a decent hunting rifle. At least good enough. Now in a combat rifle you still want the penatration and knockdown power of the 30-06, but something that can cycle faster and is more compact. This would work, but the DPMS AP4308 would be the best. Followed closely by the M1, M1A, M1A1, M14...
For home defense you don't want that much power. Sure it will stop someone from stealing your TV, but you might have to buy your neighbor a new one. That bullet will not stop for a while. Maybe 6-10 houses away. Your going to have that problem with just about any rifle. I think the perfect home defense weapon is a combination of a few things.
Get a Dog. They make noise and burglars hate noise.
Keep a Cell phone with you, call the police. That is their job. Just knowing that you called the police can make the intruder leave.
I keep a .45 model 1911 loaded with hollow points, just for the late night visitor.
Grabbing a 30-06 just seems a little bit silly.
But keep researching, because on the road our Government is traveling, you may need it. Even if there is no world war on american soil, the day may come when you have to hunt for dinner.

[Handgunner]

Over 4 years.

What's the record? :D

[Art Eatman]

We've had necrothreadia from 2002...