Don't sleep it off outside


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Tall Man
August 23, 2005, 09:32 AM
http://www.komotv.com/stories/38384.htm

Pierce County, Washington, sheriff's deputies were looking for a suspect in a car break-in when they found Aaron Otto Hansen passed out in a sleeping bag outside a relative's home. The deputies, who were being filmed by the TV show "Cops", tried to wake Hansen and shouted at him to show them his hands. "You're gonna get tased, due," said one.

When the deputy tried to pull the sleeping bag open, a disoriented Hansen pulled it back over his head and tried to push the deputy away. That's when that deputy and another knelt on Hansen and tased him repeatedly. As Hansen began to thrash about, one deputy called for a police dog that repeatedly bit at Hansen's leg, "leaving his pants shredded and his ankle bloodied," according to local media.

The confrontation ended with Hansen begging the deputies to tell him what he did wrong. He was charged with two counts of assault for resisting the officers. Those charges were dropped the day his lawyer received the "Cops videotape. Hansen is now suing the deputies, the county and the cities of Lakewood and Tacoma.
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Henry Bowman
August 23, 2005, 09:40 AM
This is why Cincinnati didn't want COPS to film here. It's not that we are racists or have something to hide. It's that we have seen this show and know what the presence of cameras do to otherwise good LEOs.

Flyboy
August 23, 2005, 10:32 AM
Henry Bowman:
It's that we have seen this show and know what the presence of cameras do to otherwise good LEOs.
I don't want to sling accusations, but this statement seems a bit outlandish. Are you actually saying that "otherwise good LEOs" will, in the presence of cameras, become JBTs?

Isn't that a bit like saying that otherwise good people will, in the presence of guns, become murderers?

dolanp
August 23, 2005, 10:36 AM
I think it's more likely that they tone it down for the cameras, which is what's truly scary.

Henry Bowman
August 23, 2005, 10:49 AM
From what I've seen, there are always a few who like to "juice it up" for the cameras. I don't mean to imply that they go crazy and pound suspects. It's more that they have talked there way up to the situation (on camera), making certain assumptions that may not turn out to be valid, and then don't want to loose face on camera so they continue on somewhat "blinded" from the signs that are telling them their assumption were wrong. This is a perfect example.

Nevermind. I've seen COPS, and no matter how many shirtless clowns get chased and arrested, I don't think that it makes our police look very good overall. There are many exceptions, but if you can't see some on the show inflating the "us vs, them," we must not have seen the same shows.

c_yeager
August 23, 2005, 10:50 AM
It's that we have seen this show and know what the presence of cameras do to otherwise good LEOs.


Yeah, everyones a saint untill there are witnesses

Daniel T
August 23, 2005, 10:57 AM
Hansen is now suing the deputies, the county and the cities of Lakewood and Tacoma.

I wonder what the story would have been without the camera?

Ian
August 23, 2005, 10:59 AM
The incident is really sickeninig, at least to me.

"Wake up! Show me your hands!" one officer, identified in the lawsuit as Deputy Joseph Kolp, screams at Hansen on the video.

No response.

"You're gonna get tased, dude," Kolp says.

Kolp pulls on the sleeping bag. Hansen - clearly disoriented - tries to pull it back over his head, apparently to shield his eyes from Deputy Russell Martin's flashlight. Kolp grabs Hansen's arm and Martin moves in to help with an arrest.

Hansen, still on the ground, starts to revive. He pushes Kolp, and the officers repeatedly use their Tasers as they kneel on him, pressing the instruments into his chest and his buttocks.

"What the (expletive) are you doing?!" he moans as he struggles against them. "What the hell's going on?!"

With Martin and Kolp holding him down, Hansen continued to swing his legs, and Kolp called for help from Tacoma police K-9 officer Christopher Karl. Karl's dog bit repeatedly at Hansen's leg, leaving his pants shredded and his ankle bloodied.

The confrontation ended after two minutes, with Hansen in handcuffs moaning, "Please, please ... What did I do wrong?"

"When we tell you to show us your hands, that's what you need to do," Kolp tells him. "You want to fight us, this is what happens."

"I'm not fighting nobody here," Hansen says, doubled over in pain.

And what does the cop have to say?

"The dog was sent in to help us out because we had two officers struggling to get this guy into custody and he wasn't complying, so we had to take it up a notch. ... It was a full-on battle there for a couple minutes."

:barf:

The Real Hawkeye
August 23, 2005, 11:17 AM
This is why Cincinnati didn't want COPS to film here. It's not that we are racists or have something to hide. It's that we have seen this show and know what the presence of cameras do to otherwise good LEOs.You must be kidding me. That is exactly counterintuitive. The only reasonable conclusion is that they toned it down for the cameras, compared to what they usually do. This is human nature. They want to keep their jobs. In reality, this is probably typical police behavior when the cameras are not there. We've seen much worse when cops didn't know cameras were there. It is also typical to charge suspects with assault for merely resisting being pummeled with kicks and punches and having their heads rammed into cars and sidewalks, which has pretty much become the norm for arrests, unless there are lots of witnesses and cameras.

Justin
August 23, 2005, 11:49 AM
Those cops should be sued into indentured servitude.

c_yeager
August 23, 2005, 12:14 PM
I wonder what the story would have been without the camera?

What story?

Flyboy
August 23, 2005, 12:28 PM
Yeah, everyones a saint untill there are witnesses
Now, to be fair, I sincerely doubt FOX (Cops is on FOX, right?) would find encounters like the one I had with an officer yesterday[0] make for TV as good as they ones they choose to air.


[0] My brother was in a minor accident. Officer was polite, friendly, agreed that the road design was bad, volunteered that the University was actively impeding improvements to said road design, etc. All-in-all, a really nice guy, and a good officer. But that wouldn't be very entertaining on TV.

Henry Bowman
August 23, 2005, 12:37 PM
I guess you guys have never met someone who like to "showoff" for a camera.


Nevermind, again.

Daniel T
August 23, 2005, 01:51 PM
c_yeager:

What story?

Well, that's true. Just another number to add to a statistic.

---

Henry Bowman:

I guess you guys have never met someone who like to "showoff" for a camera.

Sure. Maybe one guy. There were at least three in this situation. Not a single one thought to say "Hey guys, this might be a bit excessive?".

TarpleyG
August 23, 2005, 02:50 PM
This episode aired about a month or so ago. I asked my wife while watching it if she was sure this was the guy they were looking for. You really cannot tell from the editing but the guy could have been the one they were looking for.

Greg

CARRY'IN
August 23, 2005, 08:00 PM
It is also typical to charge suspects with assault for merely resisting being pummeled with kicks and punches and having their heads rammed into cars and sidewalks, which has pretty much become the norm for arrests, unless there are lots of witnesses and cameras.

I absolutely agree with Hawkeye. It is called CYA. THR seems to have alot of cops vs copdistruster threads; seems we have some cops who like to call copdistrusters "copbashers" and just keep posting long dissertations of police procedure as an answer to any argument. I freely admit I am a copdistruster. I attribute this to having stopped watching television police dramas about 15 years ago, and frequently seeing the police in action for real.

oh blanky
August 23, 2005, 08:31 PM
<Purely bashing comment removed.>

CARRY'IN
August 23, 2005, 08:34 PM
<Disagreement with purely bashing comment removed. :D >

KLR
August 23, 2005, 08:34 PM
<disagreement with OhBlanky that probaby should have been removed yesterday removed by KLR>

migoi
August 24, 2005, 01:05 AM
Cops responding to a possible prowler call at the home of an elderly lady. As one officer is moving toward the back yard a shot is fired.

Quick investigation shows that the lady had fired a shot off into the dark to scare off whatever was making the noise she heard (not a good idea I'll admit). No prowler was found (holed or unholed).

My favorite part was the reaction from the officer. He asked the lady to see the gun (a revolver), asked if she had more bullets, reloaded it for her, and then replaced in the drawer where she kept it. He then cautioned her to only shoot when she can see what she is shooting at because it might be him out there in the dark. Then a good night ma'am.

This episode is much on my mind as I watch the nightly news and see that 4 elderly women have been sexually assaulted or raped on Maui in the last 3 weeks.

Forget about arming bears...arm the tutu's (Hawaiian slang for grandmother).

My kind of cop.

migoi

ZenMasterJG
August 24, 2005, 01:21 AM
Almost all people will try and proform "better" when they're being watched. Its called the Hawthorne effect. When individuals are being watched, their behaviors are altered. Watching singles out the individual and they feel, consciously or not, that they must be more productive. In cops, i think this would probably lead them to try and end an encounter faster, not to mention that almost anyone put in front of a camera acts in a show-offish manner. Not deliberatly, its just how we work.

AK-74me
August 24, 2005, 01:53 AM
I've seen the episode and the poor dude is obviouly not the guy they are looking for but the way the show is edited the hunt for the BG ends right there, I was thinking when I watched it if they were gonna get the real BG or just be like "we got someone....anyone ....thats good enough."

gunsmith
August 24, 2005, 07:33 AM
Fort Worth I believe, yeah that was a good episode.
One episode in AZ showed a real moron,
holding his gun hollywood style,near his face & finger on the trigger :barf:
I hope he got chewed up for that.
cops is one of my fave shows

scubie02
August 24, 2005, 09:01 AM
yeah, i've never understood why cops would want the show Cops on tv, since for the most part I think it gives a negative image, but cops seem to love it for some reason. I never watch it intentionally as in watch a whole show, but I have seen sections of it while flipping the channel around. The on episode that stood out was when this old black guy is walking down the street, and from off camera this linebacker cop comes hurtling out and just flattens this skinny old guy onto the pavement--really body slams him. They cuff him and roll him over and his face is bleeding and you're just thinking (I actually said something like this to my gf) "geezes, that guy must be 70 and you know he must have broken something just then!" His crime? Well, somebody had called the cops and said somebody was "suspicious" and "might have a weapon". The "weapon" he was carrying? A foot or so long piece of rubber gas line he was on his way to replace the old line on his lawnmower with...

I was watching that thinking "man, if I was that guy I'd never have to change my own gas line again by the time I got done suing that department...

OTOH, I agree that producers probably wouldn't be interested in showing all the times cops are polite and helpful, etc, which is too bad. People often act by example--if a new cop were to enter a force where the cops already there treat citizens as "the enemy", or tazer them at the drop of a hat, pretty soon he or she'd be acting the same way. If they came on the job and the cops showed concern and said "have a nice day" and acted like they were just there to help, similarly they would probably behave in a similar way. Too bad they couldn't show more of THOSE encounters on tv...there are probably as many of those every day as the body slamming old folks ones.

The Real Hawkeye
August 24, 2005, 11:08 AM
My favorite episode of Cops took place in the Florida panhandle, very rural place, by and large. Cops get a call saying elderly man has a car thief at gunpoint in his driveway. They show up, its late at night, and a caucasian elderly man has a Model 10 revolver pointing towards a young black man who is lying on the ground. They draw on the guy on the ground and ask the old man to put his gun in the house, which he does. When he comes back out, the man is handcuffed and they ask him what happened. Old man says he heard something, and when he looked out the window he saw this guy breaking into his car. He told his wife to call 911, then he came out with his revolver and told him to lie on the ground or he'd shoot him. Then he said, "I was damned sorry he listened to me, because I really wanted to shoot the bastard." The cops (deputy sheriffs) just looked at each other, laughed, and took the car thief to the squad car, telling him he was sure lucky tonight.

Bobarino
August 25, 2005, 01:28 PM
FYI the city of Lakewood has since stopped allowing COPS to be filmed there. the city council decided that it was making the city look bad. Lakewood also now has its own police force instead of contracting it out to Pierce County Sheriff.

Bobby

CAS700850
August 25, 2005, 01:37 PM
I think Henry Bowman may have a valid point. I mena, think about it. You're a young cop, and there's a T.V. crew in your cruiser. You want to do something to (1) make it on the show and (2) look good/tough doing so. So, a normally fine officer sees a guy sleeping in a sleeping bag on someone's property. Goes to toss the guy a bit, see if he can get a dope bust or something slong those lines. Ends up with a fight on his hands.

Knowing some of the younger cops, I can see how this might happen.

Henry Bowman
August 25, 2005, 02:11 PM
Thanks, Chris.

feedthehogs
August 25, 2005, 02:30 PM
The show cops, was one of the first reality shows on TV. As with most reality shows, the reality is scripted or edited to some extent to keep people from falling asleep.

What I have a hard time with law enforcements' understanding of human nature is they believe everyone should stop, drop and roll when asked to.

Now there will always be those who submit to any command without question and I understand someone who has warrants, facing long prison time is gonna run rather than give up.

But I also believe normal human nature will resist submiting to a point of total helplessness when they know they have not done anything and that cops don't understand that someone who is waking up from a possible deep sleep may take time to lose thier groggy nature and return to full comprehension and be able to comply with law enforcement without the fear of being tazed, bitten or beaten.

Werewolf
August 25, 2005, 02:41 PM
but cops seem to love it for some reason. Probably because they actually believe that their actions are correct and proper never imagining that they might be seen in a bad light.

I used to watch Cops but quit because it is essentially the same show week after week. The one constant factor in the show is that as long as those who are being apprehended are docile the police treat them fairly.

On the other hand even the slightest amount of resistance either verbal or physical more often than not results in a complete over reaction by the police. Lots of screaming to GET DOWN, GET DOWN, HANDS BEHIND YOUR HEAD etc... What's most disturbing to me is that the commands are not just loud they sound as if the screamer is either terrified (bad enough) or simply has lost control (very bad).

Do LEO's need to maintain control of a situation - ABSOLUTELY. Do LEO's need to maintain control of them selves - ABSOFREAKINGLUTELY! And the show Cops indicates to me that they aren't doing a very good job of controlling themselves.

All the show Cops has done in my case is to convince me that those LEO's on the show are control freaks who absolutely lose it if even the slightest hint of resistance to their authority is exhibited by someone they wish to apprehend or even just question. Their reactions to resistance are not those of someone in control of themselves and wishing to retain it in the current situation but instead are the reactions of those who cannot tolerate resistance to authority.

40 years ago cops were heroes to me...
30 years ago they were respected professionals to me...
20 years ago they were men doing a difficult but necessary job...
10 years ago they became government stooges who have forgotten that their job is to serve the people not the government...

AND NOW! LEO's are to be avoided and feared at all costs by even law abiding citizens.

Are all LEO's to be avoided and feared. No! I'd be willing to bet that 99% of them are good people just trying to do their jobs the best they know how and know that they're out on the streets to protect us. The problem is running into the 1% who are no good can not only ruin your day but your life. Best bet is just to stay the hell away from them, not get into situations that you can't handle yourself and if you do need 'em pretend to be a sheep while you deal with 'em.

Who ever said "cops - the largest street gang in the US", sure got it right.

flatdog
August 25, 2005, 03:14 PM
Has anyone else noticed that frequently commands shouted by LEO's on this show are contradictory and given by several different officers at once, all shouting over each other? This while holding a suspect at gunpoint.

Freeze! Get on the ground! Don't move! Show me your hands!

Combine this with someone as out of it as the sleeping bag guy in this thread.

Not good.

Brad Johnson
August 25, 2005, 03:57 PM
Can't speak for an episode of COPS, but we have a local TV station that has a program called Food For Thought. It's where a reporter goes with health inspectors doing restaurant checks. I have a friend who runs a restaurant and have been present for some of the checks, both with, and without, the cameras in tow. And let me tell ya...

When the cameras aren't there the inspector is jovial, helpful, and generally tries to look at things in a very thoughtful, realistic, and common-sense manner. When the camera crew is around, it's by-the-book, hard-nosed, no-holds-barred, and zero-tolerance. Heck, the camera crew and reporter(ette) usually take it upon themselves to start looking around for stuff to point out, and get all huffy if the "infraction" isn't written up as a critical violation.

Just a small sampling of what they "find"....

-Rinse water that is 1 deg F under the requiered temp. Never mind that the rinse sink was in the process of being drained while they (the news crew) were "helpfully" taking the temp measurments with a NON-CALIBRATED home-type candy thermometer. Oh, and then they looked at the inspector and asked him point-blank, "You're going to write that up, aren't you?"

-A citation for a "damaged can" of product. Never mind that the can was sitting in the garbage area in preparation for hauling it out to the trash.

-A citation for an unsanitary food prep surface. Never mind that the mess came from the guys who were installing brand new high-tech vent hood, filtration, and fire suppression systems, and that the restaurant was closed for the day to accomodate the installation. The reporter saw it a made a such big deal about the dust that I think the inspector noted it just get the report to shut up.

And that's only a couple of examples from a long list of stupid crap that happens just because a camera is around. People get retarded real fast when a documentary camera pops up. Very few remain the same. Most go to one of two extremes - they become "super" whatevers and try to be the ultimate example of their kind, or they clam up completely in a hyper-defensive mode. And it doesn't help that most reporters seem to feel the need to step in and be "helpful" by suggesting things to make the filming "more appealing to the viewer".

Brad

Joejojoba111
August 25, 2005, 04:32 PM
"10 years ago they became government stooges who have forgotten that their job is to serve the people not the government..."

That's, unfortunately, never been the actual job description. The executive branch simply implements the laws prescribde and proscribed by the legislative. If this means writing traffic tickets or herding people into cattle cars, it's all the same. 'serve and protect the public' or stuff like that is, honestly, an exercise in public relations, an advertising gimmick slogan dreamt up by a hired marketing team.

Many people actually belive the advertising slogans, today. In the past people were not so gullible, advertising not so invasive and persuasive. That's the way it goes, and not until the executive is tasked with herding people into cattle cars once again will we remember what their defined role is.

Strings
August 26, 2005, 03:03 AM
might be somewhat relevant to the discussion of Sleeping Bag Boy: when I was in the Nav, we were told that we were essentially not responsible for our actions for up to a minute upon being woken up...

thorn726
August 26, 2005, 03:27 AM
Has anyone else noticed that frequently commands shouted by LEO's on this show are contradictory and given by several different officers at once, all shouting over each other? This while holding a suspect at gunpoint.

i am laughing So hard!

anyway , this cop is getting sued i would bet.

still, i used to sleep outside. when you sleep outside, cmaping, or otherwise, -it really helps to be conditioned to wake up.

i mean anything can get you! rats, mice, raccoons!
police are much easier to dela with if you wake right up.

in this case, seems like htey were a bit too amped though, guy was in for it.

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