[Chris Rhines]

http://www.fredoneverything.net/FreeWill.shtml


Wars, like the political eruptions of teenagers, groan under the weight of moral justification: We are fighting to protect ourselves, protect democracy, establish democracy, end atrocities, avenge former mistreatment, dissuade dictators. We have to save something from something or for something. If we don't fight, this boogie or that boogie will take over the world.

When you notice that all teenagers do the same things at the same time, you suspect that what is involved is hormones. So with wars. Military adventures only seem to be about things. Really they are just military adventures. We fight for the same reasons fish school and peacocks strut--because it's how we are.


- Chris

[ahenry]

It would appear that Fred is an idiot.

[Joe Demko]

Fred makes some interesting points.

[owen]

Fred is not an idiot. If you doubt me, read more Fred.

He has a lot of interesting, original (at least to me) thoughts on a lot of topics, with no obvious holes in the logic.

I found his articles on Housing Projects very interesting.

[CZ 75 BD]

Agree that Fred is not an idiot, and needs to be read more widely. Like Charley Reese, he says some things that I can't agree with, but he calls 'em like he sees 'em.

[ahenry]

We fight for the same reasons fish school and peacocks strut--because it's how we are. That alone is enough to tell me that Fred is an idiot. As if that isn’t enough, I have read Fred before and have always come to the same conclusion. He is a fool. And I mean that literally, he is a fool. I’ll point out a few other things just so you don’t think I spoke out of my fourth point of contact.

Instinct rules us. I am not an animal. I alone control my actions. Perhaps Fred is ruled by instinct but I am not (and neither is Fred actually).

How about some comments from another article (http://www.fredoneverything.net/Sniper.shtml)?
Today the country curls into a national fetal position and whimpers. No we don’t. The comment that Bush made after Sept. 11th that created the most support was when he alluded to getting the terrorists “dead or alive”. Americans have plenty of spine and backbone but the media just portrays it as if we don’t. Why do you think Saddam, bin Laden and a host of others think we will roll over? Cause the media portrays us as weak. Do we roll over? Nope. News is a naturally boring topic, so in order to spice it up they sensationalize it. Interviewing people that are calmly going about their lives is dull, interviewing the people here and there that are acting sort of nuts because of fear is entertaining. Believing that the media is providing an accurate representation of American feeling is juvenile and foolish. Fred has again illustrated his foolishness and idiocy.

Another (http://www.fredoneverything.net/MilReflections.shtml)?
Men seldom enlist from patriotism. I beg to differ. I know quite a few men that joined up out of pure patriotism. I know plenty that joined up to get college paid for as well, but that doesn’t mean “men seldom enlist from patriotism”.
From the same article, “Most men actively do not want to fight for their country, and will go to great lengths to avoid it. That is why in serious wars we need a draft.” Pure idiocy. See multiple discussions on this board and TFL (not saying proponents of a draft are idiots, rather Fred’s reasons for supporting it are idiocy). “Much of America does not like its soldiers, or its military. The upper classes hold servicemen in contempt. The Ivy Leagues for example provide almost no volunteers. Parents near bases often forbid their daughters to date servicemen.” Ivy League schools are hardly representations of “upper middle class”. I can’t begin to count the number of parents that would love to see their daughters date a military man instead of the pant-dragging, knuckle-headed, disrespectful punk that they so often drag home to meet mom and dad. Catch a clue Fred, your idiocy is showing.


I don’t feel like dissecting anymore of his comments but I’m sure you can see further illustrations of Fred’s lack of intelligent thought.

[Tamara]

I like a lot of Fred's stuff, however Fred, like the Pope, is not actually infallible.

[cordex]

I like a lot of Fred's stuff, however Fred, like the Pope, is not actually infallible.
I love papal comparisons.

Fred is opinionated. Some of his opinions sit well with me. Some strike me as drunken ramblings.

Then again, rereading some past posts of my own on this and other forums, I draw similar conclusions.

edited because "pasts posts" makes no sense.
Chalk it up to sober rambling

[Chris Rhines]

CZ 75 BD -

Interesting that you mention Fred along with Charley Reese, another writer I'm a fan of despite frequent disagreements with.

- Chris

[bogie]

We are primates. Deep down, we have instincts that we pay attention to whether we like 'em or not...

Next time you're in a facility with a lot of monkeys, try staring at 'em. Make eye contact. They won't like that.

Next time you're in a facility with a lot of people, try staring at 'em. Make eye contact. They won't like that.

[Tamara]

Aw, c'mon Chris; give war a chance.

(El T, give Mssr. Rhines a gentle smack upside the melon for me next time you see him. :) )

(Hoosier/Volunteer translations are available in the back... :D )

[noklue3]

I am at a loss here...
Why would anyone want to read and even react to such a knee jerk reactionary that does nothing but propose such garbage. Of course, some things that he says make sense...But the basic premise of what he says is "Listen to Me, I know all the answers"
Bullsh**.
Ya know, the web is a great thing. We can learn alot and get info and opinions from many people. BUT we also have the ability to use it like a TV....TURN it off when it spouts such nonsense.
We all have our opinions but there are people that use the internet as a forum to spout off just for the sake of being noticed. If this guy believes this-fine. But I don't have to read about it. and I won't. So I will NOT goto his website and read anymore of that...

If thing are so bad here..why are people like him still here in the USA?? Because no other county would put up with this S***. A easy answer? Yes...But the truth...Let him rail against a person such as Saddam and see how long he would have lasted in a country such as Iraq. Him and his family would be dead. I will defend his right to say what he says, but I will not endorse it or validate it by reading it any further.

Art

[ahenry]

I like a lot of Fred's stuff, however Fred, like the Pope, is not actually infallible. You’re right. Perhaps I should I phrased my point differently. I’ll try this. Fred’s pontifications fall wide of the mark more often than not. As the saying goes, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Allow me to speak to this article specifically though. Men wage wars and men being fallible, wars are, by definition, occasionally going to be waged for fallible reasons. However, going from that to, “wars are waged because it is our instinctual nature to do so” is idiocy.

Or I’ll pick another comment from this article: “Instinct rules us. Little girls left to themselves play house and care for dolls. Little boys form hunting packs.” The argument Fred tries to make to support his claim that “instinct rules us” is invalid. Can a girl prefer to hunt (or go to the range) instead of playing house or dolls? Of course she can. I bet there are a few on this board that would rather hunt or shoot or camp or something else of the like than play dolls or house. Does that make them less of a woman or lady? Of course it doesn’t. So then does the “instinct” a girl has to play dolls rule her actions? Obviously not. Hence my original statement, Fred is apparently an idiot, at least on this issue (and most of his other ones).

[Tamara]

I bet there are a few on this board that would rather hunt or shoot or camp or something else of the like than play dolls or house.

What is this "doll" you speak of? ;)

(As a child, the only "dolls" I liked were the kind that did stuff, such as walking, or soiling their didies. As I got older, my Barbies scorned Ken in favor of GI Joe, due to his less-poofie haircut and good government bennies. ;) )

[ahenry]

:D I actually had you mentioned by name, but not sure how that would be taken, I changed the sentence to something more generic. Good to know I was actually on target though.

[Sir Galahad]

Look at what some pundit 95% of America doesn't know says on the net! This is the new "...the TV sez..." of the century. Yes, Fred says some things that are true. All demogogues do, and that's why they appeal to some people who take all of their words as gospel. In private, some people will agree that some things the Third Reich said were true. In public, there are millions of folks who say that the things Karl Mrax said are true. Some crank with a website is not a neo-Neitschze (not that Neitschze's ideas were necessarily any better.) He merely proves he can type.

[CatsDieNow]

I bet there are a few on this board that would rather hunt or shoot or camp or something else of the like than play dolls or house.
I am told by my mother that when I was 4 years old, my grandmother insisted on getting me a doll with a baby carriage for my birthday.

One day, the neighbor boy and I were playing in the front yard with the baby carriage when two older women (busybodies) walked up. The boy (who was well know for his fish tales) begins to tell them about how we got married that morning, the new house he bought, and how he's the father of this baby. They thought that the two of us playing house was absolutely the cutest thing that they had seen. One woman asked me to see my baby. I told her that he was sleeping, but she insisted.

She pulls back the blanket in the carriage to find five toy machine guns. We peppered them with imaginary bullets as the boy says "Run, the Communists have found us!"

My parents still have the carriage, but mom sold the doll twenty years ago at a garage sale. :neener:

[MPFreeman]

CDN, Funny story. :cool:

[Soap]

Yeah Chris, give war a chance! ;) Of course war unfortunately does expand the power of the government...but then again, every single thing the government ever does expands the power of the government. Sad...but reality.

CatsDieNow- Nice! :D

[Carlos Cabeza]

A discerning mind is a virtue, and interpretations can differ from person to person based on culture, religion and other sources of individuality and moral upbringing.

[pax]

Barbie dolls? :confused: I owned one of those once. Never played with it. My mom was really happy when my little sister was born, because she finally got her girlie girl who would sit and play with dolls for hours on end, and be happy when mom wanted to do her hair, and all that other stuff that bored me silly.

So ahenry makes a good point: Not all little girls, left to themselves, play with dolls. Nor, I suppose, do all little boys form wolf packs (you couldn't tell this by my kids, though! ;) ) This shows ... what? That human beings are not all alike? Hardly an earth shattering revelation, that.

I can't much dispute Fred's primary observation, that nations go to war. It is what nations do. Does anyone care to dispute that point? Name a nation -- any nation, any time in history -- that never fought a war.

But Fred errs when he steps away from the observed phenomena ("History is one long repetitive story of war") to pronouncing a reason for the phenomena ("Because we are over-brained apes"). It is simply too facile.

It is true that some wars, perhaps many wars, have been fought just for the savage joy of combat. But all wars? Hardly.

Mostly, he has forgotten that all wars have two sides. Even a nation committed to minding its own business can get attacked by another; what to do then?

pax

Men love war because it allows them to look serious. Because it is the one thing that stops women laughing at them. -- John Fowles

[Carlos Cabeza]

Love your quote Pax !:D