Chain gun stores


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chorlton
August 25, 2005, 03:50 PM
Oops, not stores selling chain guns :D
My question is:
Is it possible to negotiate on prices with places like Cabelas or Sportsmans Warehouse?

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Moonclip
August 25, 2005, 03:57 PM
Our local chain(Turners) refuses to deal and I find also that even many of the smaller stores will not anymore. Being as it is hard to make a buck in the gun biz I rarely ask anymore anyways.

If I don't like the price I just don't buy it. I will make exceptions sometimes at someplace like a pawnshop(saved 5 bucks, wow) or if buying multiple guns at the same time.

PromptCritical
August 25, 2005, 04:09 PM
As I recall, there is very little markup on guns themselves. My local shop ads a flat 10% over wholesale which I consider very reasonable. Most of the shops money is made selling ammo and other supplies, which no one usually haggles over. This may also be why they always try to sell you extra goodies with the sale of a gun. A guy I know who works in a shop in San Diego told me that the state of Kali makes more money on each sale than the shop does. I don't doubt it. I consider gun shows the only place for negotiating.

And to answer your question directly, the Sportsmans Warehouse here sells guns for slightly less than the above mentioned shop, so they are in no position to haggle is they still want to make money.

brewer90
August 25, 2005, 04:18 PM
I bought a Kimber from Sportman's Warehouse and they wouldn't come down on the price which was pretty low to start with. I found the pistol for $100 cheaper online but the sales guy really knew his stuff and spent well over an hour with me trying out all of their .45's. That extra attention was worth the $100 since I now knew exactly what I wanted and was able to check out the pistol before I bought it.

Cabela's seemed to be priced much higher than Sportman's. At least here in Austin anyway.

Farnham
August 25, 2005, 08:36 PM
After that title, I'm SOOO disappointed... :D

S/F

Farnham

Standing Wolf
August 25, 2005, 09:49 PM
Is it possible to negotiate on prices with places like Cabelas or Sportsmans Warehouse?

According to my old pal Jim: "You don't always get what you ask for, but you never get what you don't ask for."

MachIVshooter
August 25, 2005, 11:13 PM
As was stated above, gun stores make very little profit on new firearms. Our local guy usually makes 7-12%. Thats not a whole lot, so I don't really ask him to discount. Sometimes he does because I buy a lot of guns, but I never ask. Used guns are another story. The profit margin on used is usually at least 100%, so they definitely have room to work with you. Most dealers will buy used guns in excellent condition at 1/2 of dealer cost. That means a 98% Springfield loaded will fetch you about $240 if you sell to a shop. They will turn around and sell it for $495.

Tejas Gunwerks
August 25, 2005, 11:24 PM
As a Dealer, I am always willing to negociate... I'm am, always, willing to raise my prices. :D

Spreadfire Arms
August 26, 2005, 01:07 AM
i saw Tejas Gunwerks do that at a gun show, it was pretty funny. :D

a kid, about 19-21 years old, asked the dealer if he was willing to negotiate on the price of a handgun which was let's say $500.

dealer said, "sure, i'm always willing to go up. how about $525?"

kid looks puzzled and stutters - "But--but--that's $25 higher than the marked price."

dealer replies, "I know, I'm a better negotiator than you!"

kid...puzzled.....walked away.....very puzzled..... :confused:

i was too busy laughing to get him to come back!

22-rimfire
August 26, 2005, 01:17 AM
Negotiation for new guns is limited. Frequently it is only a cash vs credit card negotiation from my experience. But, it never hurts to ask. But, if you press them for a lower price, I feel you should make the purchase it they give you a lower price (example> dealer eats the sales tax or something like that.)The profit on guns (like cars) is in used guns, not the new ones.

Moonclip
August 26, 2005, 04:03 AM
I understand customers can be a bit annoying with the constant lowball offers but after all, that young guy still was a CUSTOMER and after the $25 dollar higher remark, it is quite possible he went to another dealer and bought a gun there if he was more tactful in explaining why he could not or would not knock off anything on the price.

I had a friend that looked like he didn't have a pot to piss in that actually spent 1000's of dollars a year on guns and for some reason he was kind of sensitive. I know if he would have been given the remark the young kid was given if he asked for a better deal as he usually did, he would have never spend a cent with that particular dealer again.

c_yeager
August 26, 2005, 04:45 AM
You can negotiate anywhere. I knew a guy that used to attempt to haggle at grocery stores. he said that he sometimes got a good deal (but he may have been lying). One thing that you can do at chain stores of all kinds is to attempt to get a previous (or upcoming) sale-price on an item.

Tejas Gunwerks
August 26, 2005, 06:47 AM
Where ever you work, what if your Boss came up to you every payday and tried to negociate your salary lower. You have already completed the work, it is payday after all. He can come up with all the lame excuses he can come up with, we didn't make enough money this week, you took too many coffee breaks, I'm in a bad mood. Well...this is what you are doing to me every time you "negociate." If my prices are unreasonable, just walk away. If you can't afford my prices, go get a better paying job. Every "negociation" takes money out of my pocket, I feel no need to live in poverty because you are so cheap. And what's up with "negociation" reaching an agreeable price and then saying "Let me think about it" or "I'll be back" or "I have to go get some money" and the worst "oh, do you take credit cards?" I guess I need to raise my prices, then "negociate" back down to what I really wanted to get in the first place. You will feel better, I'll still be thinking what a moroon :banghead:

jdkelly
August 26, 2005, 07:09 AM
Not all dealers mark their wares with their lowest price. Most move at least a little, some move alot. If a guy has bad prices or a bad attitude he's not worth my time. It's not like they are selling proprietary equipment.


Respectfully,

jdkelly

c_yeager
August 26, 2005, 07:37 AM
Where ever you work, what if your Boss came up to you every payday and tried to negociate your salary lower. You have already completed the work, it is payday after all. He can come up with all the lame excuses he can come up with, we didn't make enough money this week, you took too many coffee breaks, I'm in a bad mood. Well...this is what you are doing to me every time you "negociate." If my prices are unreasonable, just walk away. If you can't afford my prices, go get a better paying job. Every "negociation" takes money out of my pocket, I feel no need to live in poverty because you are so cheap. And what's up with "negociation" reaching an agreeable price and then saying "Let me think about it" or "I'll be back" or "I have to go get some money" and the worst "oh, do you take credit cards?" I guess I need to raise my prices, then "negociate" back down to what I really wanted to get in the first place. You will feel better, I'll still be thinking what a moroon

Big huge problem with your "analogy" is that in the case we are discussing the negotiation is taking place PRIOR to the exchange of goods or services. A more accurate analogy would be if you were to negotiate your salary with your boss prior to the start of your job, this makes perfect sense and happens every day. In fact i would imagine that this is exaclty what takes place every time someone contacts you to perform some gunsmithing.

04SilverSCFX4
August 26, 2005, 09:55 AM
The dealers around here won't match prices and are usually about 20% more, so I just choose to buy out of state and normally save a few $100.00. The local shops try to screw you on the backside though by charging outrageous transfer fees. When I ordered my 700PSS the local shop was 20.00, no problem. Now the same shop is up to $40.00. I just go to gunsamerica or gunbroker and look up their ffl holders and the transfer fees (my dad charges 10.00 so 15.00 around here is pretty good) and find the cheapest ones. This way I save on the price, don't pay taxes and normally get shipping for free.

chorlton
August 26, 2005, 10:18 AM
Well I figure that since this is a chain store I'll be buying from, I'll try walking in with cash and trying to make the sales tax go away. I would be a very happy camper then :) If you don't ask, you don't get, as one of you mentioned.

Tejas Gunwerks
August 26, 2005, 11:25 AM
My analogy stands as is. You have invested your time and energy working and you expect a resonable returne on your investment. I have invested my money expecting a resonable return on my investement. I does fall apart somewhat because you have a binding contract with your employer and I do not with my customer. Nevertheless, I have a reasonable price in mind on my product. I don't jack my prices up, they are fair. I don't care if you want to defraud the state by not paying taxes, that is between you and the Comptroller, leave me out of it. Most people that negociate will stand in front of you, your item is priced fairly, and ask you to come down. ???? Well, why don't you make a counter offer? I'm not going to lower my prices until I reach what you have in your pocket book. If you had taken the time to do your research my prices are just fine. I had a group of guys come in and wanted to negociate my AR 15s down to about $300.00. They wouldn't beleive me when I told them that was below, way below, what I paid for them. I don't need uninformed customers like that. Some customers just want to bust your chops, because they can. It is refreshing when a customer just says, let's write it up.

afasano
August 26, 2005, 12:05 PM
Chain gun stores, :D and finestine didn't like my little AR she's really going to be pissed now.

TheEgg
August 26, 2005, 12:15 PM
Tejas Gunwerks is entitled to charge whatever he wants for his products.

I am entitled to not purchase from him or anyone else with a 'customers are jerks' attitude.

Sounds like a win-win all around. :D

Pilgrim
August 26, 2005, 12:19 PM
The gun shop I used to frequent in CA belonged to a good friend of mine. He generally sold his new wares at 10% above his cost, so there wasn't much bargaining room there. As a result, I watched his used and consignment offerings where he had much more room to negotiate. He knew I would pay cash, which gave him 3-4% to work with over other customers whom he couldn't be sure of how they would pay.

One thing I learned was to never fall in love with a gun on his shelves until I heard the best price he could give me. One day he had a nice S&W Model 25 in .45 Colt. He said it was $500. I put it back on the shelf. It sold a couple of days later. Three months later the same pistol showed up in the display case. I looked at it curiously and my friend said, yes it was the same revolver. It's owner was hurting for cash and wanted to sell it. I asked, "How much?" My friend said, "$325." By being patient I saved $175.

Pilgrim

chorlton
August 26, 2005, 12:19 PM
Tejas, I wouldn't think of trying to negotiate with an independant store owner, if I saw that the prices were fair. Chain stores, however, are able to have sales and buy in bulk, and are usually fair game. I dont think anyone was suggesting your prices are high or even that you come under the chain store category. Oh, and by "making the sales tax go away" I meant reducing the price to an agreeable level, thats all ;)

Control Group
August 26, 2005, 12:19 PM
My analogy stands as is. You have invested your time and energy working and you expect a resonable returne on your investment. I have invested my money expecting a resonable return on my investement. I does fall apart somewhat because you have a binding contract with your employer and I do not with my customer. Nevertheless, I have a reasonable price in mind on my product. I don't jack my prices up, they are fair. I don't care if you want to defraud the state by not paying taxes, that is between you and the Comptroller, leave me out of it. Most people that negociate will stand in front of you, your item is priced fairly, and ask you to come down. ???? Well, why don't you make a counter offer? I'm not going to lower my prices until I reach what you have in your pocket book. If you had taken the time to do your research my prices are just fine. I had a group of guys come in and wanted to negociate my AR 15s down to about $300.00. They wouldn't beleive me when I told them that was below, way below, what I paid for them. I don't need uninformed customers like that. Some customers just want to bust your chops, because they can. It is refreshing when a customer just says, let's write it up.
This argument is so flawed I almost don't know where to start.

First, while you've invested your time and energy in your work, you still have the results of that time and energy. If I don't pay your price, you still have the gun, and can sell it to someone else. Once I've worked 40 hours, I can't get those 40 hours back or sell them to someone else, so I expect to get paid at the price we agreed on.

You're right, though, in that does also fall apart because of the binding contract, but it's a lot more than "somewhat." There is really no parallel between not paying money you've agreed to pay, and trying to reach an agreement on how much money you will pay.

Additionally, I'm not defrauding the state by not paying sales tax, since I'm not the one being taxed. Sales tax is assessed against the merchant, and it is at the merchant's discretion whether to pass that cost on to the customer (which is, of course, normal practice). Either that, or we're all defrauding the state when we pay for concessions at movies or ballgames, since we're not paying x% over the displayed price.

You seem to think that your idea of a fair price is the only one. It's not. "Fair" is whatever price you and the customer agree on. That's how this whole "free market" thing works. If you're already pricing your guns rock-bottom, more power to you. Don't lower your price. That doesn't mean it's wrong for someone to negotiate. Do you pay sticker price for cars at a dealership? If you don't your hypocrisy is incredible. If you do, you're getting ripped off.

You also seem to think that customers should just blindly trust that you're pricing the gun at a "fair" price. I'm sure you're an upstanding guy who would never dream of overpricing his wares to see if someone will pay, and that's commendable. Of course, those of us who don't know you personally have no reason whatsoever to trust you any more than we trust Slick Jim McRipoff at the next table. I'm sorry you have to deal with the terribly offensive practice of asking for a better deal because other sellers are shady, but life's a beach, you know?

If you don't want to negotiate, that's fine. Put up a sign that says "all prices final," or "no negotiation," or play a looped video tape of Tommy Lee Jones saying "I. Don't. Bargain." But getting all huffy because someone engages in the fairly standard practice of trying to negotiate prices at a gun show is a bit uncalled for.

SLCDave
August 26, 2005, 01:47 PM
I have never bought a gun that I haven't thought about, done some research on, and priced in several different places for at least a couple of weeks beforehand. I know that Sportsman's Warehouse will beat any local price on an in-stock gun, and I only got that information by ASKING. They have done it for me without even calling to verify the price.

I was in a local shop about a month ago, and I was looking at a handgun in the used case. It was pretty much reasonably priced, but I had $10 less in cash in my pocket. I asked if that price had a little wiggle room, and got blasted before I could explain my reason for asking. I was asking because I was willing to GO GET the extra $ from an ATM if I had to, but I would save my time and effort if they would take a little less. I've seen price haggled in this very shop on several occasions, and bought plenty of ammunition and other items there in the past. Needless to say, I didn't buy the gun, and haven't bought anything there since.

You do business how you see fit, and I'll spend my money where I'm treated decently. There are enough people out there willing to take my money, so it shouldn't be a chore for me to hand it over.

04SilverSCFX4
August 26, 2005, 02:29 PM
Here's my thought...I'm in the market for a RRA M4, local shop wants 975.00. I don't bid or bargain, if that's what he charges someone else can pay it. On the other hand, I found an out of state dealer who can sale for 850.00/shipped. Now when I buy, I'm saving 125.00 + 60.00 in tax. So for a little leg work you can save approx 150.00 after paying the transfer fee.

Sorry, but I make it a habit to buy out of state just to avoid taxes and you normally get a better deal using the various gun listing web-sites/forums.

P0832177
August 26, 2005, 02:46 PM
Face facts Shooter are cheap b$st$rds. We all want something for nothing! SW has great prices in the Mpls metro, and they have selection. I will not comment on the people working there, though! Their margin is slim! Cabelas trades guns, whereas SW does not! People clain Cabelas has good prices, and from what I have seen that is not the case! Till bought out, Galyans has some great prices on high end guns, ie HK, Rem., Benelli (sp?), and they were starting to take trade ins. Since slick willy purged the kitchen table FFL holders there are fewer and fewer dealers around. Hell, I used to live in a small town of 1500, and there were 23 FFL holders, only 5 had store fronts Pamida, Coast to Coast, a gas station, Gambles, and men's shop.

But, when you buy from large chains they have to make a buck, and a case in point. A small gun shop I frequent pays about about 800 bucks a month CC fees! Imagine what Cabelas or SW pays out by taking plastic? Sure that is cost of doing business, but it affects the pricing structure.

This is a hobby, and last I checked they cost money!

CajunBass
August 26, 2005, 03:21 PM
I ask to see what I'm looking at. I ask "What do you want for it?" The dealer will say "X". I either say "I'll take it." Or "No thank you."

I figure what he says is what he wants. I can either pay it, or not. If I start out the door, and he doesn't call me back, I assume he was telling me the truth.

Tejas Gunwerks
August 27, 2005, 12:39 AM
Additionally, I'm not defrauding the state by not paying sales tax, since I'm not the one being taxed. Sales tax is assessed against the merchant, and it is at the merchant's discretion whether to pass that cost on to the customer (which is, of course, normal practice). Either that, or we're all defrauding the state when we pay for concessions at movies or ballgames, since we're not paying x% over the displayed price.


The only state I am concerned with is Texas, this is where I am licensed. Yes, there is a use tax on items bought over the internet. You are breaking state law if you don't send it in. Just because at this time Texas has no practical way of enforcing it does not mean you don't have to pay. The seller has no discretion whether to pass the tax on to the customer, it is law. Merchants collect it we don't charge it the state does.

Control Group
August 27, 2005, 10:18 AM
The only state I am concerned with is Texas, this is where I am licensed. Yes, there is a use tax on items bought over the internet. You are breaking state law if you don't send it in. Just because at this time Texas has no practical way of enforcing it does not mean you don't have to pay. The seller has no discretion whether to pass the tax on to the customer, it is law. Merchants collect it we don't charge it the state does.
Have a reference for this? Every state sales tax I am aware of (which is, admittedly, not all of them, and doesn't include TX) the responsibility for paying the sales tax rests upon the merchant, not the consumer. It is a tax on the sale itself. This is why the consumer doesn't need to fill out a tax form of any kind for the point-of-sale sales taxes. It is also why a consumer from out of state can file with the local state government to recover sales tax inappropriately charged by a merchant (no one does this, of course).

You are, however, correct insofar as I am required to pay the tax on items I buy via mail order or the internet because the merchant is untaxable. The point of taxation is always government to merchant if possible, since that means the government gets paid. As long as the government gets paid, no law is being broken. They don't care if I pay you the sales tax, as long as you pay them the sales tax. If you do not charge me sales tax, it isn't fraud unless you don't, in turn, pay the government their cut of the sale.

If you'd prefer, though, you can think of it as giving me a 5.9% discount on the price while simultaneously charging me 6.25% sales tax. This is obviously within your discretion as a seller, and is not any kind of fraud, and gives exactly the same result.

Obviously, you don't want to lower your price by 5.9%. That's fine. But telling me I'm committing a crime if you do is just plain silly.

saddlebum
August 27, 2005, 10:48 AM
i'll make an an offer on a gun if i know i can buy it for that price elsewhere. but i don't make outrageous low ball offers.

Jet22
August 27, 2005, 12:30 PM
I've been on both ends of the stick. I know that when a dealer shows you "dealers cost" he may be paying 12-16.5% less (can you say "Ruger"?) for it and may be getting dating (dating means we recieved the items in February and don't pay for them untill December first, no interest). Most dealers are NOT buying direct and the ones that do are getting a lot better pricing (Marlin, Remington, etc). If they have to buy from a distributor, the distributor makes all the profit. There is no way a small dealer will get the same pricing as a dealer that is getting their guns direct from Marlin or Browning. I know some reloading lines we paid 39% of retail price and sold for 10% off retail...and we got dating on top of that!

Things like liabilty insurance will drive a dealer right out of business. Ever been sued because the guy you sold a gun to used it to pull his buddy back into the boat after he had fallen out and the gun went off and you didn't tell him you should not use a gun for that purpose? This caused the shop that I worked at to have its insurance doubled. Many shops fly without wings (no insurance) and will lose everything for one frivolous law suit.

Most of the prices on used guns are "fishing" prices. Some are very desireable guns and there is no reason to come down. Others are just priced because you have to put something on them. I aways tried to work with customers and give them the best possible deal. Some guys want to steal the gun from you and want top dollar for their trade-in. The guy I aways hated to deal with was the one that would say "Will you take XXX for this gun" and when you would say "Yes" he would say "I'll think about it". I started answering that question with "I don't know, nobody has offered me that amount yet". In other words, put up or shut up (money talks, BS walks).

On the buying side, I guess what you need to decide is what you are willing to pay and make an offer. If you don't get it, it wasen't ment to be. I know when I run across a gun that I have wanted for a long time it may be worth paying extra just so I don't have to spend a lot of time and effort looking for another. It has always amazed me that a guy would drive 200 miles to save $20 bucks on a gun so he could brag to his buddy what a good deal he got on it. These days I buy most my guns at gun shows. I don't go looking for a particular gun, I just wait till the right deal comes along. Many times a guy will take half of what he has it priced on the table. Some guys won't budge and have had the same guns on thier table for 5+ years. It still boils down to how bad do you want it and how much will it cost you to find another.

Mr. Kook
August 27, 2005, 01:29 PM
Some dealers intentionally mark their prices high with the expectation that people will negotiate.

The Bullet Hole in Kansas City does that. Last year I spoke with them about a 220ST they had marked for $999. The real price was $750 (quite reasonable at the time). This didn't require any haggling, just asking the price did it. They mark all new guns at MSRP and then let the buyer ask the real price. This was a year ago so I'm sure the price has changed since then.

At gun shows I have found quite a few people will mark a gun maybe $100 or so up off of what they are willing to take for it.

Some dealers will negotiate on the price, others won't. It's just a style of doing business.

At Cabela's in Kansas City, when buying two used guns the first thing they did was visit the gun library and see if they could discount the price (without even asking, it was nice). If you buy more than one used gun at a time they will probably help you out, especially if it's one that has been scratched up a bit. For new guns I think their prices are very firm.

berettashotgun
August 27, 2005, 03:18 PM
Walked into the BIG show at Tusla spring of 2004, intent on finding a winchester model 100 in 284. Didn't have to be perfect or showcased, just a decent one. Found the rifle in all of 10 minutes- at that place!!, the dealer said it was his personal rifle and when I told him I had the cash for his asking price- He dropped the price $75 on the spot. I know I'm part Jew, grandparents with the last name Goldsbury is a sure tip-off, and something about the caps clued me in when I was a little tyke. That dealer MUST have seen me closing in and just caved when I spoke :neener: That guy was VERY appreciated that day, I just wish he wouldn't have kept trying to hug my girlfriend (at the time)- Maybe Sandy got the good deal for me- :scrutiny: Oh well, I've gotten a deal on most everything I have ever purchased in life by dealing with good intentions and being curteous. Those dealers are just trying to make a living, taking a yoga class might help some of them be nicer :D

c_yeager
August 28, 2005, 03:16 AM
Have a reference for this? Every state sales tax I am aware of (which is, admittedly, not all of them, and doesn't include TX) the responsibility for paying the sales tax rests upon the merchant, not the consumer.

If a Washington state resident purchases anything from out of state then the burdon is on them to pay sales tax on that item. This has been the law for as long as we have had a sales tax. It hasnt been an issue untill the internet made interstate commerce so readily available to the masses. Historicaly this law has applied more to contractors purchasing materials and equipment more than anything, but it actually does legally apply to everyone.

coonan357
August 28, 2005, 03:33 AM
I pay the price marked on the gun at my local guy because I get services not provided elsewhere . have you gun take a dump on the night before season opens and see where the chainstores get you . my guy stayed after and fixed it for me . and when people come in the store to haggle he asks is that cash or credit . credit no deal , cash he might haggle on the fact hes going to loose 3% to the credit card companies . I know his overhead is high also . and he is willing to do the footwork to get me what I want .Example I wanted a Para He's not a Para dealer calls up his distributor and gets me the Para Dealer price . the guy down the street is a Para dealer and He won't get me the gun I want ! I don't shop at the chain stores and won't I an very loyal to my Shop . and he has always helped me .

Hawken50
August 28, 2005, 06:22 AM
Every "negociation" takes money out of my pocket, I feel no need to live in poverty because you are so cheap.

and i'm sure most people feel no need to overpay for something simply because one dealer who they will probably never meet is offended by bargining in general.

judging from your other posts you can save yourself an ulcer by investing in a couple of "PRICES NOT NEGOTIABLE" signs.

Dionysusigma
August 28, 2005, 07:30 AM
Back when I turned 21 (all those months ago), I was in the market for a Makarov. Azrael256 and I walked into Brigadoon's (locally-owned milsurp shop) and immediately set to drooling over all the used stuff. Only Mak I saw had a chrome slide :barf: , but nearby was a Bersa. I had a Mossberg 590 in the trunk that I had never fired along with 100 rounds of cheep WalMart Winchester 12ga and five Remington slugs. I told Mark (owner) that I wanted the Bersa, and asked what he could do on the shotgun.

"$25.00," he said. I wasn't sure that what I heard was right, and asked him to clarify. "$25.00 for the NICS check," he replied. "Even trade sound good?"

About 45 minutes later, I walked out with a like-new Bersa .380, a spare mag, four boxes of .40, three boxes of .380 (one that was missing about 12 rounds was only $1.00), three 6.5x55, one 525-rd brick of .22, fifteen boxes of 7.62x39, and only $140 lighter. And Azrael256 walked out with a simply superb K31.

Sometimes, haggling ain't necessary. :)

berettashotgun
August 28, 2005, 09:35 AM
Dionysusigma - I met the guy at Lexington a few years back, he was doing rapid fire with a tricked out mini.My youngest boy, never bashful or at a loss for words, told him some finer points about shooting rapid fire with a toy gun. Ya, the kid could rock with a FAL or Garand when he was 12.ANYWAYS,Mark was laughing about it-but was actually listening- I thought his courteous and respectful demeanor would be a real plus in business. BTW, Jake hasn't fired a rifle or shotgun in over a year- but he sure is puddycat whipped. :barf: :barf:

Rembrandt
August 28, 2005, 09:44 AM
Hard to negotiate with stores using bar codes and scanners with minimum wage check out personnel.....if there's no bar code, let the haggling begin!

Tejas Gunwerks
August 28, 2005, 10:11 AM
I am not so opposed to negociating as I am to customers who have no idea what the item cost, what my overhead is and what my profit margin is. The actually try to negotiate my prices below my cost. Simply because they have not done their research. They not the Dealer come in with an attitude that they are entitled to a lower price. I negociate all the time, customer attitude plays a big part in it. What I don't like is when my price is marked, a customer ask me to come down. The way the game is played is, then the customer counters, this goes back and forth, we reach an agreement. Just don't stand there asking me to come down. When you lowball me hundreds under what I paid for my product do you really think I will take you seriously? Those are the customers who get prices raised on them to make a point.

entropy
August 28, 2005, 12:57 PM
I'll take a Puckle and two 25mm's for my Bradley, please! :evil:

It's hard to work the price of a new gun down; You're better off trying to get $$ off accessories, and most dealers will throw in a box of ammo (depending on caliber) with a new gun purchase to get a fence-sitter to buy. As has already been noted, there's very little profit in new guns, the profit is in the accessories, particularly clothing. ;)

Charlie
August 28, 2005, 01:48 PM
Tejas,
You have every right to your opinion and may run your business as you see fit. I must say though, with the attitude you seem to have, you are probably running some business (good customers, not the losers) off. While browsing at gun shows (Texas gun shows), aside from looking, buying, etc., a great deal of my time is spent listening to conversations between potential buyers and dealers. It always appears that the courteous dealers have bigger crowds and make more sales than the others who ridicule or insult potential buyers. I'm not saying you do that as I don't know you, but your attitude is showing. When you state you ".....don't need uninformed buyers" (or something like that), you certainly limit your customer base. Most folks at the gun shows have not researched every gun they admire. Good luck.

GEM
August 28, 2005, 03:33 PM
Amusing - I research prices so I have a good idea. I find it not insulting if I ask the dealer if that is his or her best price or can they do a little better. It works even in Sears. I saved $100 on a refrigerator.

About attitude. At the Saxet show, several years ago, I wanted to buy a Winchester Defender. Dealer A had them and so did Dealer B. I asked dealer A if it was his best price. He is a notorious Crank - he sez: What do expect me to lose money!!.

I might respect - No, that's my best price given my profit margin.

Dealer B - turns out he was a psych major, like me and we chatted - got the gun for $10 less.

I once bought a knife for more from a dealer who let me see his high end automatic knives.

So be cranky if you want.

Tejas Gunwerks
August 29, 2005, 03:03 AM
Some of you still don't get it. My item is priced, fairly priced. Customer just stands there asking me to come down. For why? Why won't he counter offer my original offer, it is marked, this is negociation. Standing there saying "nope, not low enough, go lower" is not how the game is played. I offer, you counter, I counter your counter, we work it out. If you lowball me hundreds of dollars and then essentially call me a liar when I tell you what my price is, you are right I don't need that uneducated customer. There is another right behind him will to pay a fair price. I am the only person in the show who knows what I need to get for my product. My attitude hiding behind this keyboard is not the same as in person. I doubt you will find many people saying I have a bad attitude. I guarantee there are more customers with bad attitudes than dealers. What is the number of dealers vs. customers? Logic tells you the number is overwhelming, my experience backs that up.

Wastemore
August 29, 2005, 12:41 PM
Tejas,
If you have uneducated customers, you have failed. Not everyone has access to gun pricing information, let alone the time. You are the professional and it is your job to educate customers on the sale from start to finish, from pricing to safe handling. I understand that you're under no obligation to share with anyone what your profit margin is, but, it might be the wiser to explain to the hagglers why they're getting a fair deal.
It's interesting how retailers believe that customers are stupid. While they may be uneducated about a specific product, they're smart enough to go where their dollar stretches the farthest and where the guy behind the counter is willing to spend a few extra minutes, even if that few extra minutes is explaining pricing. Retail is a tough business and the days where customers pay the ticketed price without complaining are long gone.
I will always try to haggle for price. I also go where I feel I get the best service for that price.
Firearm customers seem to be very loyal to their dealers. We're a weird breed. We appreciate sitting around the shop on a Saturady yapping about the current political situation, etc. My dealer knows me on a first name basis and does little things for me, like mounting and bore sighting my glass for me free of charge, even if I already have the glass. Because of the "little things", in a strange sort of way, I feel obligated to the guy. It's a win/ win situation.

On a positive note- keep plugging away and know that us shooters appreciate guys like you keep firearms available for us. We all know that the paperwork mounts and the regulations are enough to make you want to pull out your hair. So, thanks.

B-

GEM
August 29, 2005, 12:55 PM
Terry, if you tell me the gun cost you X (honestly) and to run your business you need to mark it to Y, that's the response I respect. I may not buy it but I understand realistic business practices. If others are butts, well, most people are butts!!

Maybe I'll see you at a Saxet show. I bought something from Spreadfire (mags) and they were nice guys.

Sheldon J
August 29, 2005, 11:06 PM
Now here is a trick I bet none of you have ever thought of. My 18 year old works for a chain sporting goods store, and I bet other stores do this too, when they take back a gun for various reasons they put it in a storage room, sometimes these guns will set there for several years in their origional box unused, in new condition.
How do I know this? I bought a Stoger 12 gague over under NIB minus extra choke tubes other wise in 100% condition $225.00, a NIB 870 in .410 $125.00. The boy put me on to these. These guns were purchased and returned for some obscure reason returned and stored as they were no longer considered new and could not be sold as such, and they had no provisions to sell them. Talked to the store manager, and he decided uppon the prices. :neener:

lildog
August 29, 2005, 11:38 PM
Hi Folks,New to this,I have a question on ohio ammo laws. I heard you must present I.D. to purchase ammo,what are the details of this? New to shooting,and just wanna plink some cans in the back 40 here.But ifnya gotta fill out forms and stuff, I may just use a slingshot,lol.......

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