Shooting at Wal-Mart....


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itgoesboom
August 25, 2005, 09:39 PM
Sounds like someone used a firearm to protect another person from being stabbed, I wonder if the person shooting had CHL.

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) -- Police surrounded a Wal-Mart on the city's southeast side Thursday afternoon after getting an emergency call that someone had been shot inside the store.
Police confirmed that one person had been killed. They said there was a stabbing and then a shooting, but they released no other details.
Police had the area cordoned off Thursday evening.
Witnesses told Albuquerque television stations that they saw a man stabbing a woman inside the store when another man shot him.
The gunshots sent people running, according to witnesses.
Earlier this week, a man opened fire in the parking lot at a Wal-Mart in a Phoenix suburb, killing two employees who were collecting shopping carts.

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SMLE
August 26, 2005, 01:21 AM
Sounds like justifiable homicide to me. In NM you are allowed to use deadly force to protect another person. Also, that Wal-Mart does NOT have a liquor department, so licensed CCW is legal there. The store was still a crime scene at 9:30 PM when I passed by.

This is from the Local CBS affiliate station:

ALBUQUERQUE -- One person was shot and killed and another stabbed inside a Wal Mart store in southeast Albuquerque on Thursday evening.

It all happened around 5:30 p.m. at the store on San Mateo near Zuni. There was mayhem and confusion inside a southeast Albuquerque Wal Mart as employees and shoppers were sent fleeing by the sound of gunfire.

A co-worker says a Wal Mart employee working in the deli was attacked by her ex-husband with a knife.

While the SWAT team surrounded Wal Mart, a woman was brought out on a stretcher. She is now in stable condition at UNM hospital.

“She was telling me she was scared of him,” says Wal Mart employee Billie Jo Chavez. “But we never thought he'd come here and do this to her”.

Police won't confirm what happened next, but witnesses say a customer armed with a gun tried to stop the stabbing.

Witnesses say the customer jumped the counter and shot the attacker multiple times, killing him.

Police say one person is in custody, but aren't saying if that person is the shooter.

Police say they will release the names of everyone involved on Friday morning. At that time they also plan to address whether or not the shooting was justified.

This is from the local ABC station:

Police Investigate Homicide Inside Wal-Mart
Witnesses Say Incident Involved 2 Men, 1 Woman

POSTED: 6:57 pm MDT August 25, 2005
UPDATED: 10:57 pm MDT August 25, 2005

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- An apparent domestic dispute turned deadly Thursday evening inside a Wal-Mart in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

Police said a customer spotted a man attacking a female employee and shot him dead.

The woman was taken to a hospital for multiple stab wounds. The man who was shot was pronounced dead at the scene.

Police said it appears to be a justified shooting. They said witnesses back up the shooter's story that the man was stabbing the woman, and he intervened.

Police said the stabbing apparently stemmed from a domestic dispute. The relationship between the dead man and the woman has not been revealed. But friends of the woman tell Albuquerque television stations she recently obtained a restraining order against her ex-husband.

Earlier this week in suburban Phoenix, a man opened fire and killed two Wal-Mart employees in the store's parking lot.

Luchtaine
August 26, 2005, 01:29 AM
+1 ccw -1 restraining order, if it was indeed her ex-husband.

chris in va
August 26, 2005, 01:29 AM
I see they're finally trickling in more information about the incident.

I don't know if I could have done what that guy did for the lady. Good job.

Luchtaine
August 26, 2005, 01:36 AM
I thought about that myself a lot if you thought you saw someone getting attacked do you intervene it could not be what you think. Then again this involved blood it would probab ly be easier to tell what was actually going on, so I guess its a question of wether or not you were willing to risk saving someones life. By Killing and possibly opening yourself up to negative consequence unfortunatly. If they charge the guy with anything I'll travel out there to protest at the court house, it doesn't sound like they will though. Anyways my hat is off to him.

nickthecanuck
August 26, 2005, 01:54 AM
I posted this in Strategies and Tactics too. Didn't see this thread was already up.

I thought that Walmart did have a liquor department. Maybe I am confusing it with the Carlisle one?

GunnySkox
August 26, 2005, 02:19 AM
I like how they throw "shooting and stabbing" together like they're the same thing in the titles, and keep throwing in that thing about the shooting in Phoenix, just like a little "But hey, guns are still evil!" after a vague attempt at giving the facts.

Of course, those facts are a little sketchy, at this point, so I'll reserve my judgement for the shooter and (heh) shootee until everything's confirmed. Hope the stabbéd lady makes out okay.

~Slam_Fire

c_yeager
August 26, 2005, 03:56 AM
I like how they throw "shooting and stabbing" together like they're the same thing in the titles, and keep throwing in that thing about the shooting in Phoenix, just like a little "But hey, guns are still evil!" after a vague attempt at giving the facts.

I noticed that too. The headline should read more along the lines of "Armed Citizen Saves Innocent Woman from Knifewielding Ex-Husband". I guess thats asking a bit much.

ccw007
August 26, 2005, 06:03 AM
I just heard about this on the news. My first thought was ccw holder. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. If this is how it sounds then that citizen deserves a big pat on the back for not just looking the other way.

middy
August 26, 2005, 09:17 AM
If this story holds, excellent job on the shooter's part. :cool:

I hope it doesn't affect him emotionally; some people can take out a goblin like shooting a rabid dog, others have nightmares.

Imagine if this had happened in England. "There was was nothing we could do for the poor woman. The man had a knife. I told you we needed to ban pointy knives..." :banghead:

20cows
August 26, 2005, 09:33 AM
Imagine if this had happened in England. "There was was nothing we could do for the poor woman. The man had a knife. I told you we needed to ban pointy knives..."

They already have. It's illegal to carry a knife there. It's also illegal to use deadly force to defend yourself in your home from what I understand.

scubie02
August 26, 2005, 10:00 AM
So you can't shop someplace where they sell liquor if you're carrying? Another intelligent law. :scrutiny:

Commissar Gribb
August 26, 2005, 10:03 AM
i noticed there was little description of the firearm used to defend the lady getting stabbed

must have been an evil black assault pistol...

20cows
August 26, 2005, 10:06 AM
I don't know what the law is in New Mexico, but in Texas, the business has to derive 51% of its revenue from on-site alcohol consumption to be off limits. I wouldn't think the NM laws would be that different, but I've been wrong before.

R.H. Lee
August 26, 2005, 10:07 AM
It sounds like he saved her life.

armoredman
August 26, 2005, 10:09 AM
Hope this guy has another pistol - the one he used won't be seen for a while.
Good job

NineseveN
August 26, 2005, 10:26 AM
Wasn't there a thread hear about people needlessly carrying into Wal-mart? :neener:

It was over on glocktalk as well. Hate to say I told ya so, well, actually, I don't hate it. I told ya so. :neener:

Hope the shooter and the woman turn out healthy and fine.

Sistema1927
August 26, 2005, 10:36 AM
SMLE,

What other Wal-Marts in ABQ don't sell liquor? (I am tired of taking off my CCW and locking it up everytime that I want to buy some groceries.)

Zundfolge
August 26, 2005, 11:04 AM
The headline should read more along the lines of "Armed Citizen Saves Innocent Woman from Knifewielding Ex-Husband". I guess thats asking a bit much.
Yeah, remember whenever anyone gets into an accident while driving an SUV, the title is always "SUV Kills man" or some such nonsense ... if they are going to blame trucks for murder you can't expect them to tell the truth about guns.

Also, that Wal-Mart does NOT have a liquor department, so licensed CCW is legal there.I don't know what the law is in New Mexico, but in Texas, the business has to derive 51% of its revenue from on-site alcohol consumption to be off limits.
Jeebus ... yet another reason to love living in Colorado ... here in CO I can sit down in a bar, have a drink and walk out, packing the whole time and still be within the law (as long as I'm not "under the influence" I can carry).

Asinine that you can't carry where alcohol is sold ... I can kind of understand not allowing a CCW to consume alcohol, but to not be able to carry where someone else might *gasp* buy a beer is just stupid. Besides, where are us law abiding types most likely to encounter an armed robbery where our CCW piece would come in handy? I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with liquor store! :rolleyes:

Andrew Rothman
August 26, 2005, 11:33 AM
I like the Albuquerque Journal's headline:

Attacker Shot to Death at Wal-Mart
By Lloyd Jojola / Journal
A Wal-Mart customer who saw a female employee being stabbed Thursday pulled out a gun and shot the attacker, according to police.


It's a pay site, so that's all I have...

El Tejon
August 26, 2005, 12:49 PM
Zun, bah! You hairy-chested Westerners, I can be three sheets to the wind and still carry. :D Of course, I can't be out in public while drunk as a skunk. :scrutiny: :uhoh:

Let's hope this guy had a CCW and was NOT a cop. He then needs to be the new poster boy for CCW and made a feminist hero. :)

SMLE
August 26, 2005, 12:53 PM
The Wal-Mary at I-40 and Coors does not have a liquor dept. either. Those are the only 2 I know of in Abq.

This morning's Abq Journal says the shooter DID have a CHL. My dad has a subscription, but I have to set up an account on the web page. I'll post the entire article as soon as I do that.

Ok, Here is the article:

Attacker Shot to Death at Wal-Mart

By Lloyd Jojola
Journal Staff Writer
A Wal-Mart customer who saw a female employee being stabbed Thursday pulled out a gun and shot the attacker, according to police.
The violence erupted shortly after 5 p.m. at the Wal-Mart Supercenter at 301 San Mateo SE, leaving the attacker dead and the woman with multiple stab wounds, police said.
The victim and her attacker were believed to have been "domestically involved"— such as married or ex-spouses, police spokeswoman Trish Hoffman said.
The shooter had a concealed-carry gun permit, Hoffman said.
The shooter was detained for questioning, she said.
"Right now, it appears, from what witnesses are corroborating, it looks like it may be justified. None of that is confirmed yet," Hoffman said.
The attacker lay dead in the store an hour after the shooting. The woman was taken to University of New Mexico Hospital with what were called non-life-threatening stab wounds. She was in stable condition Thursday night.
The incident occurred at the height of the evening commute, the store crowded with people running errands. It left some store patrons "frantic," "screaming," calling out for their children and running for the exits, said customers who were inside the store.
The incident, according to customers, occurred at the store's deli section at the southwest corner of the store, near the front.
"We were just shopping when all of a sudden we heard like the sound of an empty pallet falling down," said Bill Winzenburg, a Kansas resident in Albuquerque for a job interview.
"Then, it was boom, boom, boom!" said Winzenburg's wife, Cheryl.
"We had a couple of parents yelling to their kids, calling for their kids," Bill Winzenburg said.
"There was a lot of people screaming, a lot of confusion," said Nelson Londono, a Kirtland Air Force Base airman.
Londono said he was walking by the deli section when he heard a woman scream. He also said he saw a man with a gun leaning over the deli counter. He heard at least three gunshots.
Glen Rhodes, another customer, and Londono then went to another part of the store, near the sporting goods, and started directing as many people through the exits as they could.
Jake Jaramillo, who was with his wife and son, was buying a backpack for his son.
"Mostly everybody was running toward the back," Jaramillo said.
"People who were running from the front to the back were saying, 'Somebody's shooting. Run, run!' ''
Still, some oblivious consumers continued to shop.
"When we were running towards the back, people were still shopping," Jaramillo said.
Rhodes said he told one woman, "Ma'am, just leave your cart and go!"
Dale Enggass and Brian Lewis, UNM students and dorm residents, were getting ice cream and other food when they heard "a lot of yelling."
"We kind of rushed to where it was to see what was happening," Lewis said.
Lewis said he peeked at the deli area and saw a guy climbing over the counter.
Initially, some customers were crouching. "There was a lot of confusion and some scared people," Lewis said, adding that the two left the store through a storage area.
Police quickly sealed off the store and its parking lot upon arrival. Store workers and some customers, who couldn't get to their vehicles, remained while police investigated.

Erich
August 26, 2005, 12:55 PM
You also need your little pink slip to carry on your hip if you want to walk across the street. :P Not here . . .

SMLE, are you sure that Wal-Mart doesn't sell booze? I thought the one nearest my house (the one at Academy & Wyoming) was the only Wal-Mart in town that didn't sell booze. . . .

SMLE
August 26, 2005, 12:58 PM
Erich.
The Wal-mart where the shooting took place is across the street from Highland High School, so no liquor license. The one at Coors and I-40 is accross the street from a church. If there is a no liquor store near you, that makes 3 in the Abq. area.

Sistema1927
August 26, 2005, 01:10 PM
I also thought that Coors and I40 (closest to my house) sold liquor, but then again I have never checked.

An update from 770 KKOB web site:

MORE THAN THEY BARGAINED FOR

IT APPEARS NO CHARGES WILL BE FILED AGAINST THE MAN WHO SHOT AND KILLED ANOTHER MAN IN THE WAL-MART AT SAN MATEO AND ZUNI IN ABQ THURSDAY AFTERNOON. POLICE SAY THE GUNMAN, WHO HOLDS A CONCEALED WEAPONS LICENSE, SHOT THE OTHER MAN AS HE WAS STABBING HIS EX-WIFE, WHO WORKS AT THE STORE. SHE'S HOSPITALIZED WITH MULTIPLE STAB WOUNDS. SOME OF HER CO-WORKERS SAID THEY WANT TO THANK THE GUNMAN FOR SAVING THE WOMAN'S LIFE.

I hope that they give him a medal, a Wal-Mart gift card, and a lifetime supply of ammo.

NineseveN
August 26, 2005, 01:15 PM
A little more information and sources on this, and this one goes on my blog. Good shoot.

Sam
August 26, 2005, 01:17 PM
I wasn't aware of any of the ABQ stores not having a liquor dept. All I thought was now some poor sod has stepped in it. Glad to hear that he was above board. From the little bit there is it sounds rightous. Maybe we will hear something from the DA by Monday. Another one to put on the board when I talk with my legislators next. Need to get carry legal in Wally World, the local Stop N Rob, resturants and State Parks, then we should be OK.


Guess we'll have something to talk about at lunch tomorrow. ;)

Sam

c_yeager
August 26, 2005, 01:20 PM
The Wal-Mart at I-40 and Coors does not have a liquor dept.

Dale Enggass and Brian Lewis, UNM students

something fishy here...

Erich
August 26, 2005, 01:36 PM
I believe this is the first documentable use of a NM CHL to save a life.

Janitor
August 26, 2005, 01:45 PM
i noticed there was little description of the firearm used to defend the lady getting stabbed

must have been an evil black assault pistol...
Actually, if had been an 'evil black assault pistol' we would probably have heard all about it.

Erich
August 26, 2005, 03:15 PM
Nothing more of interest in the afternoon paper.

Sam, see you mañana! :)

nickthecanuck
August 26, 2005, 05:22 PM
770 KOB is saying the shooter is a 72 year old man.

SMLE
August 26, 2005, 05:46 PM
ALBUQUERQUE -- A man attacking his ex-wife with a knife inside a southeast Albuquerque Wal Mart was shot and killed by a 72-year-old man Thursday evening.

It all happened around 5:30 p.m. at the store on San Mateo near Zuni. There was mayhem and confusion inside a southeast Albuquerque Wal Mart as employees and shoppers were sent fleeing by the sound of gunfire.

The victim in this case is 46-year old Joyce Cordova. She is in critical but stable condition at this time at UNM Hospital.

Albuquerque Police say Cordova had a long history of domestic violence with ex-husband Felix Vigil. A co-worker says Cordova was working in the deli was attacked by her ex-husband.

Vigil was shot to death by 72-year old Due Moore. Police won't say how many shots were fired, but some witnesses tell News 13 they heard at least three shots.

Police say Moore had a concealed carry license and is a well-known volunteer with APD's cold case unit.

“It’s probably a very good thing he (Moore) was there,” says APD Sgt. Trish Hoffman. “Ms. Cordova may not be here today if it had not been for him.”

Police say there was a valid restraining order in place against the victim's ex-husband.

Police say Moore has been very cooperative and has not been charged with any crime.You know, they ought to print those restraining orders on the back of sterile trauma dressings so they would be of at least SOME use to the victim.

sumpnz
August 26, 2005, 06:02 PM
Police say Moore had a concealed carry license and is a well-known volunteer with APD's cold case unit. Sounds like a retired cop more than likely. Could just be a guy that volunteers his time though.

Sistema1927
August 26, 2005, 06:35 PM
“It’s probably a very good thing he (Moore) was there,” says APD Sgt. Trish Hoffman. “Ms. Cordova may not be here today if it had not been for him.”

For those of you who don't know who Trish Hoffman is, she is the blond APD officer who was all over the news during the "runaway bride" event. She is often the APD spokesperson during news conferences.

She used to be Trish Ahrensfeld, but I think that her husband found all of the attention (media and wife seekers) to be too much, thus she is now Sgt. Hoffman.

Andrew Rothman
August 26, 2005, 06:40 PM
You know, they ought to print those restraining orders on the back of sterile trauma dressings so they would be of at least SOME use to the victim.

Hey, that damnfool micro-engraving proposal from California could be of some use here: Engrave the restraining order on some Hydrashocks. :D

But on topic -- bravo, Mr. Moore!

garyk/nm
August 26, 2005, 07:36 PM
Attention ABQ members: your mission, should you choose to accept it, is TRACK DOWN MR. MOORE! We need to take this gentleman out to dinner and provide him with as much of his beverage of choice as he wishes to consume. Count me in!

Sistema1927
August 26, 2005, 08:16 PM
Channel 4 News (the local NBC affiliate) just had a very sympathetic piece about the shooting, and had Mr. Moore on camera.

Turned over to Channel 7 (ABC) and they credit him with saving the woman's life as well. Channel 7 also had Due Moore on camera as well.

Both stations presented him as a hero, "guardian angel", and both pieces show him as an average citizen (no "wild eyed gun nut"), who was in the right place at the right time.

Bravo Mr. Moore!

Andrew Rothman
August 26, 2005, 08:29 PM
And... (am I really saying this?)

Bravo Albuquerque journalists!

Standing Wolf
August 26, 2005, 08:32 PM
Keep an eye out for old guys with guns.

kbr80
August 26, 2005, 09:41 PM
Just saw the Half hour update on Fox, they talkec about this story, and how no charges will be filed, but what pissed me off was this statement:

"New Mexico ALLOWS NON FELONS to Carry Concealed Weapons."

My point is, the way the news media, and the public at large views the 2A, is that we are ALLOWED to carry. Folks, if you are ALLOWED to carry, its not a right.

BHPshooter
August 27, 2005, 04:09 PM
Folks, if you are ALLOWED to carry, its not a right.

Well, I might be splitting hairs, but if you have to buy a $60 card* that says you can carry, it's still not a right. So far, only Vermont and Alaska have pulled their heads out.

Wes

*Utah price for CCW is actually $59. I rounded up, so sue me. :p That, of course, doesn't count hidden costs, and the flaming hoops you have to jump through. :rolleyes:

mattx109
August 27, 2005, 05:49 PM
Vermont never had its head in. :)

I hope this gets plenty of attention.

I'll be blogging it shortly.

SMLE
August 29, 2005, 10:45 PM
This is from a local radio station's web page.

"A MAN IDENTIFYING HIMSELF AS VIGIL'S BROTHER ALSO CALLED 770 KKOB TO SAY THE STABBING VICTIM, JOYCE CORDOVA, BROUGHT THE ATTACK ON HERSELF. " :barf: :cuss:

This orc also said that his brother was not a murderer because he didn't actually kill the woman!! :barf:

AND, he said SHE should feel guilty about Vigil being dead! :barf: :banghead: :cuss:

I heard a recording of his call this afternoon and was screaming at the radio. This creep would have work his way UP just to be roach feces.

Henry Bowman
August 30, 2005, 10:12 AM
“It’s probably a very good thing he (Moore) was there,” says APD Sgt. Trish Hoffman. Probably? :scrutiny: Probably? :uhoh: Let's not jump to conclusions. Let's ask Ms Cordova and see what she thinks.

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