Scary AP Poll?


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cgjunk2
August 26, 2005, 01:05 PM
I don't know about you guys, but doesn't even asking this question seem a little scary? See link below

http://start.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20050826/430e93c0_3ca6_1552620050826-312886436

(sarcasm on)Well what do you know, a large majority of people support the 1st ammendment! (sarcasm off) Who are the people that think you shouldn't be allowed to protest? The ones that came up with the idea of "free speech zones"?

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1 old 0311
August 26, 2005, 01:41 PM
They do have a right to dissagree. They DO NOT have a right to give aid and comfort to the enemy. Some are getting real close.

Kevin

Delmar
August 26, 2005, 01:47 PM
I am a big 1st amendment supporter, but I have some serious issues with some of these protests against the war outside of a funeral home where services are being held of a fallen soldier. I also have issues with those who protest the war outside a a military hospital. Along with the right, comes the duty and responsibility.

Wanna protest the government? Fine, take your beef to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave-its the white house with the big pillars in front. I'm sure the news people are going to flock to you in order to find out what your grievance is. Thats what they do for a living.

Those few who are doing these things are setting themselves up for a backlash that I HOPE they don't like.

I guess you can't legislate morality-neither can you legislate good taste. To do so endangers the constitution.

dpesec
August 26, 2005, 02:05 PM
I also saw on Fox News yesterday that for the first time over 50% of the people disagre with being in Iraq. Not a goo omen. :eek:

Delmar
August 26, 2005, 02:09 PM
dpesec - Does it make you wonder how the question was posed to those polled?

Kind of like "Do you believe firearms should be in the hands of the mentally deranged?"

Latest galluping poll says most folks don't think people should own guns!

Joejojoba111
August 26, 2005, 02:18 PM
"I am a big 1st amendment supporter, but I have some serious issues with some of these protests against the war outside of a funeral home where services are being held of a fallen soldier."

I already think the law has means to handle these situations.

A)The funeral home or the veteran's hospital can remove the protesters from their property (I don't really believe the story about the veteran's hospital, because of this).

B)If untruths are being said, then this is a case for the courts too. Someone says your dead son was a baby-killer, then the law has means to rectify this situation. The slanderer will have to prove their assertions in court (in slander the burden of proof is reversed) and quite likely they will not receive legal aid to do so.

C)Sue for emotional discomfort.

D)Restraining order, because your psychiatrist says you are going crazy with their harassment. Or something like that.

And so-on and so-on and so-on and so-on. And so-on.

There is NO justifiable reason to abrogate constitutionally-enshrined liberties. People publishing articles suggesting there are, well I think those people are acting against America, perhaps they don't know it, perhaps they do.

geekWithA.45
August 26, 2005, 03:02 PM
I have very little faith in most pollster's ability to concoct proper polls or derive meaningful and reliable information from them.

I have even less faith in the presses' ability to interpret and report on those results.

CAS700850
August 26, 2005, 03:03 PM
America. Gotta love it. We're a group of people all about protecting our 2A rights. There's a huge thread over at L&P on the issue of teh War on Drugs and personal liberties. And, here we have a thread asking if a poll showing support for the right of people to exercise their 1A rights and protest the war is "scary?"

My biggest problem with the ACLU is their method of counting Amendments...1, 3, 4, 5, etc.

By the way, personally, I believe that they should all go to D.C., and protest the war like crazy. Leave the soldiers alone.

Polishrifleman
August 26, 2005, 03:14 PM
Why is this a problem? Why is it scary? Like said above it depends on how the question was asked.

Do you feel it is ok for individuals to outwardly, vocally, with signs, t-shirts, etc.. within the bounds of the law protest the war in Iraq?

They have the right to do so and hopefully they do it with courtesey and respect. Unfortunately there is problem with them crossing the line at times.

The problem I have with the article is that the people polled were obviously asked there political affiliation. What does that matter? We are and should be Americans first and foremost!!!!

dpesec
August 26, 2005, 03:29 PM
Geek, 100% correct, how questions are phrased, plus the lead-up can impact the results. People who believe that the war is needed will be less likely to say so because they don't want to be in the minorty, which in turns adds more fuel to the fire.

What I'm affraid of is that we're startign to the impact of the constant carping. What ever the US does is bad, everybody else is good.

There was dissent about Vietnam but the movement gathered steam when Walter Kronkite said "We can not win this war" on the CBS news, that was the spark.

I wish I could remember the general was that said the troops' morale would be good as long as they knew the US was behind them. I'm getting worried that our support is weakening.

wingnutx
August 26, 2005, 03:36 PM
I support the right to say damn near any fool thing that pops into their little heads.

I'd much rather they be straightforward and call me a baby-killer than cry crocodile tears and pretend to support me as a political tactic, but they have the right to do it.

cgjunk2
August 26, 2005, 05:20 PM
America. Gotta love it. We're a group of people all about protecting our 2A rights. There's a huge thread over at L&P on the issue of teh War on Drugs and personal liberties. And, here we have a thread asking if a poll showing support for the right of people to exercise their 1A rights and protest the war is "scary?"

Just to clarify... It is scary that we are asking whether or not folks back someone else's RIGHT to protest because it is precisely that, a RIGHT (whether we like their tactics/messages or not). The fact that this question is being asked implies that it is debatable.

However, I am a bit surprised to find that this right apparently is debatable based on the discussions I've read in the other threads mentioned above.

This whole mess reminds me of what (I think it was) Rumsfeld said: Democracies are a messy thing. People will not fall in line in a Democracy. Folks should never expect that in a democracy. That is what it is all about in my view.

Sleeping Dog
August 26, 2005, 06:38 PM
Certainly there's a right to protest, to disagree with Govt policy. THR's have enough differences over the cause of the Iraq conflict, abortion, other issues.

It seems to cross a line of decency when protesting at a hospital "Nyah, nyah, I got two eyes and you got none, ya low-life soldier".

Or protesting at a funeral "Nyah, Nyah, your daughter got blowed up ha ha!"

Some protesters just need killin. Not because of their stand on issues. Just because they're rude.

In vino veritas.

Smoke
August 26, 2005, 06:52 PM
I had to drive through Crawford today. Saw much, but not all of the hub-bub.
Don't have a problem with them protesting out there.

It's the ones protesting at Walter Reed that I really have a problem with.

Let them protest all they want. They DO have a right to do it, they are making asses of themselves.

Smoke

psyopspec
August 26, 2005, 06:57 PM
A)The funeral home or the veteran's hospital can remove the protesters from their property (I don't really believe the story about the veteran's hospital, because of this).

In the news vid I saw, they were outside the gates of the hospital on public ground.

Monkeyleg
August 26, 2005, 06:57 PM
"Our attention span is simply shorter," said Charles Franklin, a political scientist at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. "Our willingness to put up with a difficult military situation and losses isn't what it used to be."

Bingo.

cgjunk2
August 27, 2005, 02:20 AM
It seems to cross a line of decency when protesting at a hospital "Nyah, nyah, I got two eyes and you got none, ya low-life soldier".

Most of the things I have read or seen seem to show protesters that are sympathetic to the soldiers, but are upset at our civilian leadership that has put them in the situation they are in now. I can't see how anyone besides the most idiotic would think insulting a soldier would be beneficial to their cause. The soldier has nothing to do with the situation, soldiers follow orders. Anti war protesters just feel that they need to make sure the civilian leadership does a better job of deciding when, where, and how our soldiers should be used.

Now I'm not saying there aren't idiots out there that would insult soldiers personally, but I think it would be a stretch to think that they are the backbone of the "anti-war" protest (whatever that is).

cgjunk2
August 27, 2005, 02:25 AM
Oh, by the way, I also agree that people should be free to make total asses of themselves when exercising there 1st amendment rights. It is not worth suggesting that limits be placed on free speech because of a few jerks that do a good enough job of discrediting themselves. It is unfortunate, yes, but the alternative is worse.

Firethorn
August 27, 2005, 04:58 AM
I believe that the best responce to these acts are counter protests. I think that unless they're creating an outragous disturbance, they should be allowed to protest whatever they want. From this to the fact that the FSM* theory of creation isn't being taught in school.

*FSM:Flying Spagetti Monster

HankB
August 27, 2005, 10:58 AM
People have the right to peacefully protest. That includes the right to peacefully protest those whose protests you disagree with.

If you go back a few years, consider the Dixie Chicks. They were - and still are! - free to mouth off all they want against Bush, without fear of being thrown in jail. But their former fans are free to stop buying their music, stop patronizing stores that sell it, stop listening to radio stations that play their music, and stop buying stuff from businesses that buy ads on those radio stations.

Other people have free speech rights, too, and there's no constitutional right to an audience. A peaceful counter-protest does NOT infringe on the rights of the original protestors.

As far as polls on Iraq are concerned, disagreement with Bush on what we're doing there does NOT repeat NOT automatically mean one agrees with Cindy Sheehan. (For example, how many here agree with the 1st politically-ordered pullout from Fallujah, a decision that was roundly criticized at the time for being militarily unsound?)

PCGS65
August 28, 2005, 09:10 AM
I am a strong supporter of freedom of speech even though we can be put in jail for it. However there's a fine line between freedom of speech and disturbing the public. Right after 9/11 80-90% of the people were all for going after terrorists in afgahnistan and iraq. But as time goes on people forget and then start second guessing things. The president did what the majority of the people wanted after 9/11. But now he's considered a tyrant for doing so? The people need to blame themself not the president. Just the way I see it.

Derby FALs
August 28, 2005, 09:38 AM
Wanna protest the government? Fine, take your beef to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave-its the white house with the big pillars in front. I'm sure the news people are going to flock to you in order to find out what your grievance is. Thats what they do for a living.

I don't believe that is a "Free Speech Zone" anymore. If you protest around the President their are very limited places (free speech zones) you can do it. Usually miles away from where he actually is located. This policy started with Clinton but Bush is taking advantage of it even more.

ak47nevada
August 28, 2005, 07:51 PM
It's amazing those Liberal Scumbags have the gall to protest right outside a military installation... But it's fine with the ACLU.

Have an open carry 2nd amendment ralley outside a federal installation and watch the tanks descend on the group of protestors.

charliew
August 28, 2005, 11:08 PM
Two soldiers were buried in Nashville over the weekend and the so-called church members of Reverand Fred Phelps showed up to protest. Not sure I could have kept my cool around this bunch. Check out the story and the photo - note the sign one war protester is carrying...

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050828/NEWS01/508280380

MrTuffPaws
August 29, 2005, 12:30 AM
It is so funny around here. We have people ready to give their life for the 2nd, but state that the 1st goes to far. :scrutiny: All 10 should be treated at equal

Alex45ACP
August 29, 2005, 01:46 AM
Nearly three weeks after a grieving California mother named Cindy Sheehan started her anti-war protest near President Bush's Texas ranch, nine of 10 people surveyed in an AP-Ipsos poll say it's OK for war opponents to publicly share their concerns about the conflict.

I'm a bit concerned about that other 10%.

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