Potentially Serious Situation


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Berek
August 26, 2005, 02:19 PM
Ok, here is something that happened this past Monday (8/22).

My kid brother was leaving to go to college and wanted to spend some quality time with his older brother. I was more than happy to oblige. I took over my newest aquisition, a Hi-Point 995 carbine and we began shooting in my dad's back yard.

As we started the second magazine, a truck pulled up out front and a guy armed with nothing more than a cell phone (in an area notorious for no signal) gets out and begins giving my brother and I all kinds of guff about shooting and backstops and everything else. We had a good back stop. Shooting downhill and NOT towards any residence. This guy's house was over 700 feet from where we were and the state law gives 500'. We weren't shooting in the direction of his house but he gave the riccochet argument stating that the bullets can travel over a mile. He stated that my dad's property was not even an acre when my dad's lawn is over an acre in itself.

So, here it is. I was over the 500' minimum, shooting in a safe direction with the Earth as a backstop, on my own property, using 9mm Luger target rounds in an area where shooting is allowed. (I can't wait for hunting season when the citiots invade his precious 3 acre plot. It's mostly wooded.)

My brother is 6'3" and 250#, I'm 6'2" 300#. This guy was 5'10" and 180#. We had a loaded semi-auto carbine and he had a cell phone with no signal. My point is?

If you do not know the ppl you are going to confront, just call the police. If I were some crazed lunatic, he could have wound up dead. Lucky for him that is not the case. When I saw him approach, I took the firearm from my brother, dropped the mag and cleared the chamber. This was before he even opened his mouth.

And, should you be insane enough to approach ppl on their own property knowing they are armed and you are not, at least know the laws and be sure that they are in violation before you make yourself look like a total moron.

Takes all kinds, I guess.


Berek

PS: We need an icon for messages that indicate "Idiot".... :D

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middy
August 26, 2005, 02:28 PM
When I saw him approach, I took the firearm from my brother, dropped the mag and cleared the chamber.
Why would you intentionally disarm yourself? How could you be sure he didn't have a concealed pistol?

Berek
August 26, 2005, 02:50 PM
He was a roofer still in his work clothes. There was no place for him to hide a firearm that would not have made a proctologist nervous. I also saw him get out of his pick up and he did not put anything in his shorts.

Berek

TallPine
August 26, 2005, 02:57 PM
you know, in that case I think I would have told the :cuss: in no uncertain terms to get off my property instantly

and I certainly wouldn't be disarming myself

keano44
August 26, 2005, 03:04 PM
So, after you unloaded and cleared the rifle, and he spouted off, what happened? What did you say, and do? Did you stop shooting? Was the police called? How was the situation resolved? Was the situation resolved? Just curious to know "the rest of the story."

Azrael256
August 26, 2005, 03:39 PM
Who's sig had that Jimmy Durante quote about minding your own business?

I don't mind people stopping by the homestead (grandparent's place) while I'm shooting just to see what's up. Whenever somebody new moves into the "neighborhood," they'll usually come to see what all the gunfire is about, but they usually bring their guns, too. My range is open to all who want to stop by and have some fun. Be nice, bring beer for afterward, and let me shoot your guns (of course I return the courtesy), and you'll probably get your whole family invited over for dinner.

I have never, ever been lectured about it. Something about a person they don't know, shooting on property of undetermined (to them) ownership keeps folks from being rude about it. I guess the idea of courtesy and keeping your nose out of others' business (and feet off their property) has gone out of fashion.

mattw
August 26, 2005, 03:47 PM
The same thing happens to me. I often shoot at targets that have a heavily wooded acre of pine as a back stop and shoot in the total opposite direction of anyone's house except for the houses on the other side of the acre or two of pines and about a mile of open field and a flood canal. My neighbor still gets the nerve to walk onto my land and actually yell at my brother and I while we are shooting my 870 at squirrels and clays and coke cans.

This guy actually did call the sherrif at one point and a deputy came to my home and told me that my neighbor could file a complaint about disturbing the peace but that is all. My neighbor was full of idle threats and supposedly filed a complaint but i've yet to recieve a summons or notice stating so and this was over 5 months ago. Some people just want to control everything and everyone. :rolleyes:

edit: i guess i should add that i've never fired anything with more power than an M1 Carbine. .30 Carbine is still a pistol cartrige so i'm not putting anyone in danger.

middy
August 26, 2005, 04:23 PM
.30 Carbine is still a pistol cartrige
If by "pistol" you mean "fire-breathing Ruger revolver" then yes, I guess it is. :D

mattw
August 26, 2005, 04:27 PM
i think my M1 carbine is better than an AR :D

bakert
August 26, 2005, 04:41 PM
I've got to agree with TallPine. Tell the guy in no uncertain terms to get his sorry --- of my property immediately or I would be calling the law. :cuss: and no way would I clear my weapom because some kook got in my face.

Otherguy Overby
August 26, 2005, 04:53 PM
When out out at my country place, I shoot fairly regularly. Even though well out in the woods behind a solar gate about a 1/4 mile away, I most always have a fully loaded gun handy besides whatever I'm shooting.

Who knows when an MZNB might actually do an Evel Knievel over the gate or through the woods.

Never disarm yourself. Especially when it is someone stupid enough to rant at a person who's shooting on his own property.

Sheesh, the nerve of some lefties.

Berek
August 26, 2005, 08:44 PM
Ok, I guess I left out that I had a backup. The main reason I disarmed is that a friend had pulled in to join us about 5 mins before this guy showed and I *know* he carries 24/7. He went in the house to talk to my dad and he was approaching from this guy's left flank while the guy was ranting. He just stood about 30 yards away and waited. That's the only reason I cleared. I figured that I could show good faith and listen to this clown unarmed knowing I had an ace in the hole.

I think what really cheesed me off was that he refused to discuss. He just wanted to be right, get his way and feel superior. This guy had watched too many movies and began talking ballistics without knowing the cal., bullet weight, load, etc. and lumped my 9mm carbine in with the big dogs. He didn't want to listen to the laws, the true ballistics and such. I did speak to a Sheriff's Deputy a couple days later and he said that he would let his men know that we shoot and some guy is bound to call. He runs the area sub-station.

I plan on going out there this weekend and maybe sight in another toy or two. I also have a firearm that I am repairing for a friend and I *have* to make sure it is safe before he shoots.

Maybe there will be a sequal to this story...

Berek

R.H. Lee
August 26, 2005, 08:52 PM
I wouldn't want anybody shooting in my neighborhood, but that's just me. YMMV. That saidô, the guy's attitude had everything to do with it. If he was belligerant while approaching armed people on their own property, he's most assuredly a moron.

Standing Wolf
August 26, 2005, 09:36 PM
He just wanted to be right, get his way and feel superior.

Superior to what, eh? Rocks? Grass?

MikeIsaj
August 26, 2005, 09:53 PM
I would not have stood on my property and listened to him while also standing on my property for a moment. Blowhards like this are pumped up when they aren't called on their poor/stupid behavior. You tell him he is on private property and he needs to leave now. After that it's defiant tresspass and you call the cops. He is an idiot and needs to be slapped (figuratively), for his own safety.

hillbilly
August 26, 2005, 10:41 PM
I live in rural Arkansas.....very rural Arkansas.

Folks trying this kind of crap.....coming onto private property and lecturing a landowner about a little target practice....down here in rural Arkansas are just begging to get shot.

In fact, people down here in very rural Arkansas would automatically assume that anyone crazy enough to come onto private property and lecture a landowner about backyard target practice is so mentally damaged, that he needs to be removed from the gene pool immediately.

We would consider it a public service duty to oblige.......... :evil:


Now, for the flip side.

If the backyard target practice is indeed dangerous....for example rounds impacting a neighbor's barn or house, the same rule applies, only in reverse.

Only a real brain-damaged idiot would shoot in such a way as to have bullets getting anywhere near neighbors.

Because the neighbors can, and most certainly will, return fire if fired upon.

And they probably outgun the offender, too.

hillbilly

MachIVshooter
August 26, 2005, 10:47 PM
If you do not know the ppl you are going to confront, just call the police

I don't know about everyone else, but that is about the quickest way to pi$$ me off. I would much rather someone come up in a civil manner and knock on my door to politely let me know there is (or they have) a problem. Call the cops on me, and I won't piss on your burning house, let alone call the fire dept. I'll just grap some marshmallows and hot dogs.

Police should be a last resort. I have always made it a point to personally and politely confront any neighbors that I have an issue with. Only if they refuse to deal with me do I call the police. That is why this country has become so hostile. If you can't respect your neighbor, then god help a stranger.

Bob F.
August 26, 2005, 10:50 PM
I think I'd have just called the cops and asked them to sort it out, knowing you were right. Couple of years ago son and I were sighting in a 6.5 @ 85 yds (longest safe, easy range on my and neighbors prop. I always tell her when I'm going to shoot noisy stuff on the property line.) I happened to look over my shoulder and a deputy was backed into the other neighbor's drive across the road (about 50 yds.) I waved and a couple minutes later he drove off. Nice to live in the country!
Stay safe.
Bob

JohnKSa
August 26, 2005, 10:58 PM
I agree that the guy was an idiot, but I don't believe that responding harshly would have been a good idea.

You still don't know how big an idiot he is, or what is going through his head. Every once in awhile people get mad enough to go home (or to their vehicle) get a gun and come back shooting. It would be a bummer to have to shoot an idiot or to get shot by an idiot when you had the chance to try to calm him down.

I'm not saying to simply roll over and play dead, but there's a LOT of latitude between "Get off my land now and quit wasting my oxygen." and "Oh, I'm so sorry, I'll get rid of all my guns right now, I hope I'm not playing my radio too loudly..." ;)

justashooter
August 26, 2005, 11:17 PM
what we have, here, is a failure, to communicate.
some men, just can't, be reached.

kudos for keeping your cool in a situation that required reasonability.
post the property with a general purpose "no trespassing" sign, and carry on. if the guy comes past the sign next time you shoot, remind him that it was posted, and politely ask him to leave. if he does not, take your guns into the house, lock the door, and call the cops. do not discuss the issue with him. let them deal with him. he is not your problem.

Hardtarget
August 26, 2005, 11:36 PM
My former brother in law ..(sisters ex)...has a very nice private range on his place. He shoots north. There were two houses built across the road from the range gate. That puts them 150 yds S.E. of the shooting line. The day the first family was moving in he goes to the range...200 rnds of .38,50 rnds .44mag.,50rnds .30-06, and topped it off with 200 rnds .223...full auto! Said he dodn't plan it...just worked out that way. :D I think he wanted them he was there. If they called the Sherrif, it didn't help. He shoots there too! I think you should try to talk with this guy so he'll see you're not a bad kind of person. I'll have to say I've wound up two good friends after serious confrontations. It just a LITTLE effort form both sides to work out.
Mark.
ps: those round counts may be off a little, but not much...he likes to shoot!

Whatsit
August 27, 2005, 01:00 PM
Your biggest mistake in the whole situation was the Hi-Point! :neener: :D

Crosshair
August 27, 2005, 01:43 PM
Don't dis the Hi-Point Whatsit. You're going to get a bunch of broke people at you're door one day. :neener:

Zach S
August 27, 2005, 08:11 PM
Your biggest mistake in the whole situation was the Hi-Point!
I agree. There is absolutely no purpose for an accurate, reliable, cheap carbine.

That said, the carbine is the only thing that Hi-Point makes that is somewhat appealing.

afasano
August 27, 2005, 09:33 PM
Darn irishman that Rick O'Shay has ruined a lot of good shooting ranges people who don't know anything about guns, except that they go bang, see bullets zig-zaging and doing back flips. :banghead:

Tokugawa
August 27, 2005, 09:50 PM
I have taken the other tack on occaision -had some fools popping rounds across the ravine from my place. In my direction with nothing but air between us. It took a bit of driving around on dirt back roads to find out where the shots were coming from , I rather gently told them they were shooting in the direction of a house and they stopped right away. They had no idea, they used to shoot there years ago. This is always a problem with areas that are rapidly developing. I did not approch them weapon in hand but was carrying and had a friend in the car backing me up with valmet in case.

Byron Quick
August 27, 2005, 10:10 PM
I've had people who moved into the area show up at a shooting range my club had the lease for. They nicely told me that there were houses in the neighborhood. I nicely told them I knew that and that I knew many of the people who built there houses. Then asked,"Realtor didn't tell you there had been a shooting range here for twenty years, huh? By the way, you're trespassing."

But that was on leased land. I don't tolerate people coming on my property with an attitude. Best way I know to get my back up. Polite complaints are one thing. Any hint of belligerence, anger, or any negativity will be met with a demand to leave my property immediately and to stay off in the future or be charged with trespassing. Don't have a problem with complaints. Heck, I've been known to give folks valid reason for complaint a time or six. Even so, I will be civil to you on your property and you will be civil to me on my property. Or you will leave and not return.

PCGS65
August 28, 2005, 11:24 AM
Your absolutely right!! Every body has the right to complain but a lot of people don't do their homework first. They seem to be mad at the world and don't have any respect for themself or anyone else. The nice way is always the best way. Heck if I was your neighbor I would ask if I could join you.

rick_reno
August 28, 2005, 11:56 AM
I've had this happen - shooting into sand on the side of a road cut (I had the road put built) on 60 acres I own in a very remote part of N. Idaho. The property is bordered on three sides by millions of acres of National Forest.
My meth head neighbor came up and told me the neighbors were bothered by my shooting. Note, there are no neighbors - the neighbor lives in a small trailer on 20 acres I sold her - she's the only neighbor for at least a mile.
I explained I was shooting safe and that she shouldn't worry about it.
Luckily, she defaulted on her loan and the lender tossed her off the property about a year after this incident. For someone who uses and sells meth, she wasn't a bad neighbor - but sometimes I think the dope muddied her thinking.
I heard she went to Seattle.

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