[campergeek]

I've been shopping around for something smaller to carry than my 4" GP-100, and at both of the shops I've visited I ended up finding a Kel-tec in my price range (read "relatively cheap"). Are these good pistols, cheaply made and maybe with low demand, or are Kel-tec's often problem guns for their owners?

[Preacherman]

Do a search and you'll find lots of comments, both pro and con. Personally, I've never found a Kel-Tec reliable enough to trust my life to it, but others disagree.

[chris in va]

No problems at all with my P11. Then again, I don't shoot it much because frankly it's just not fun to shoot. :rolleyes:

But the gun hasn't done one single thing wrong since I bought it.

[fedlaw]

I have had my P32 for about five years. During that time I have run approx. 600rds. through it, as follows: 50-75 to break it in; 300-350 to learn how to point shoot it at contact to 2-3 yds. and the balance at 7yds. aimed fire. There have been no malfunctions. That being said, I use it as a 6 shooter, 5 in the mag + 1 in the pipe and I am very careful to rack the slide, (resetting the trigger) before inserting the magazine loaded with 6 and then racking the slide again to put one in the pipe. The little gun serves a purpose for me, but not as my primary or secondary gun. I think of it as a back-up---not to my .45, etc., but to my knife.

[bubbygator]

The early P3AT's ( the .380) had to undergo a "fluff & buff" on certain parts before the were reliable. Also they had an extractor problem. Beginning around serial HAA##, all those problems were resolved by manufacturing changes. My P3AT was reliable out-of-the box, and continues to be. I alternate carrying it and my S&W 442 for pocket carry. Check the KTOG forum for many many details.

[bpisler]

I've had 2 P-11's and both were very
reliable,the last one did shoot 5"
to the right at 15 yards.I had a 2nd
gen P3-AT that had FTF with ball ammo.
The more it was shot the better it
got.

[hotpig]

I purchased one of the early models for my wife. The trigger pull was very heavy, I heard that is is lighter now. It is not fun to shoot a lot. I even tried a Hogue slip on grip to try to tame the recoil. I could shoot the ILETB 25 yard certification coarse mainly by shooting well at the 7 and 15 yard line.

My wife would have to use two fingers on the trigger to shoot it. Since there are some airports in my area I did not let her shoot it much. ;)

As a close up personal protection gun I would trust my life to it. I have been thinking about getting on of the new ones with the lighter trigger.

[Bob79]

I think so, I have a P-11 and a P-32 that have both been 100%. I don't like the .380 because I tried one and it jammed all the time. And who knows maybe that was because I limp-wristed, its a lot of recoil is such a small and light gun.

I say go give one a try, either can be bought new for $250 or less, and if you try it and don't like it, sell it on KTOG.org or KTrange.com and they will prob buy a "like new" one off you for $175 I'd bet.

[CajunBass]

My P-11 has been "Ivory Snow" (99 44/100 %) reliable with no "fluff and buff" or anything like that. I carry it every day. It just works.

[GlenJ]

I had to play with my 32 and 380 (F&B) to get them 100 percent but the trade off of having the lightest gun made to carry was worth it IMO. Just try different ammo they can be picky guns.

[scubie02]

I had a P-32 for awhile. It was totally reliable for me with never a malfunction of any kind--I used winchester silvertips and various fmj's--mostly seemed to find the umc ones around--all worked fine. Trigger pulls aren't great and it takes some getting used to, but once you did it was surprisingly accurate, and hit right on. They are about as light as you can get, and as far as concealability that and how flat they are makes them about as good as it gets in that department as well--much lighter and flatter than Beretta 21's that I have owned, similar accuracy.

The only issue I had with mine was getting it out one day and cycling the action and discovering a fair amount of rust on the outside of the barrel! Never had that happen with any of my other pistols, not sure what was up with that--it hadn't been abused or anything as far as cleaning. :uhoh: Cleaned off with oiled steel wool, but didn't sit well. I traded it just the other day on a smith 431PD. Can't wait for it to show up.

For the price though it did the job, and very small and light has its place.

[Lone_Gunman]

Have "Keltec Reliability" threads officially replaced "45 v. 9mm" as the most over-talked about subject on THR?

[m39fan]

My P32 was a favorite until I found that BOTH mags I was carrying had rim lock!!! :what: :what: Never a problem until that but that was enough to trade it in on a new P3AT. The P3AT has been 100% straight out of the box and, mine anyway, is VERY accurate for a pocket pistol. Coke Cans FEAR ME! :p :p :D

I will say that if the one you purchase isn't 100%, Kel-Tec WILL make it right. Lifetime warranty actually means something to these people! They've even been known to rebuild a weapon if your springs wear out. Best customer service I've seen irregardless of price.

HTH,
Mike

[Rexrider]

I own a P32. It currently has about 500+ round through it. It has never jammed yet.

My wife shoots it most of the time. She is not gentle with handguns and loves to rapid fire. It says a lot for handgun if it can keep running in her hands.

My Grandfather owned a P11 years ago. He never had any problems with it but he hated the trigger pull on it. It was the only reason he got rid of it.

That's all I can offer. I would not have any problem buying another Kel-tec product (and I may have to as I think my wife has claimed the P32 as her's).

[Bobo]

P-32's and P-11's seem to have had a good reputation.
P-3AT's had an iffy reputation (needed "fluff and buff", etc.)

Recently Kel-Tec came out with a new version of the P-3AT (second generation) which so far has a better history than the first generation had.

There are two Kel-Tec forums. Check them out at:
The Kel-Tec Range Forum (http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/index.php)
and
The Kel-Tec Owners' Group (KTOG) Forum (http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)

[chris in va]

PS...you can lighten the trigger pull on the P11.

[CajunBass]

PS...you can lighten the trigger pull on the P11.

Just shooting mine did wonders for it.

[marshall3]

The P-11 is the almost ideal pocket gun. Here's some pix and comments:
http://www.mouseguns.com/ideal.htm

[Frenchy]

I've had my P-32 for about a year now, and have experenced no malfs. Powerful?...No! Handy 100% of the time?...You bet.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6199/KTKnife001.th.jpg (http://img24.imageshack.us/my.php?image=KTKnife001.jpg)

[albanian]

"or are Kel-tec's often problem guns for their owners?"

I think that is closer to the truth for most people. Kel-Tec and reliabilty should not be mentioned in the same sentence unless it is to say how NOT reliable they are. :D From my own experience, I can't see how or why anyone would choose to trust their life to such a cheaply made and problem prone gun. I think it is because they are inexpensive and light and easy to carry. I think they are the modern day Jennings, lorcin or Bryco but at three times the price. There are people that had reliable Brycos but that doesn't mean they are worth trusting your life to.

My P-32 went back to Kel-Tec two times and had parts sent to me once and then the trigger axis broke. I had Kel-Tec send me the parts to fix the trigger and then I got rid of that lemon. So I had to send it back two times and have two shipments of parts sent out and in the end, it was still not working right so I took it to a gunshop and traded it even for a Beretta 21-A in .22lr. The Beretta has had a few jams but I have shot it more than the KT. I think the Beretta is as reliable as any .22lr can be. I have never had a .22lr be 100% reliable. It seems the best .22lr pistols will jam 1-2 every couple of thousand rds. That is about the reliablity rate of my Beretta so I consider it as reliable as it can be considering the ammo it is shooting. Most of the malfunctions were ammo related if not all. My P-32 jammed about 200 times out of the 800 times I shot it. :banghead:

[kngflp]

My p-11 has never failed me, through alot of rounds and alot of carry. I did send it back to kel tec but looking back it was all in my head. It is my only plastic gun and shooting it in between very solid steel guns makes it fell real cheap. The trigger sucks, and it takes alot of practice to get good with, but it holds twice as many rounds as a j-frame and is actually lighter than my little .357.

[alamo]

Have "Keltec Reliability" threads officially replaced "45 v. 9mm" as the most over-talked about subject on THR?

So, I take it you won't be participating in next week's discussion on the same topic? :)

[scubie02]

hmm, I dunno, albanian--I had 2 beretta model 21's in 22, and neither one ever jammed the entire time I had them. There might be some sort of problem with yours. Was it with the same kind of ammo?

[albanian]

"hmm, I dunno, albanian--I had 2 beretta model 21's in 22, and neither one ever jammed the entire time I had them. There might be some sort of problem with yours. Was it with the same kind of ammo?"

I mostly shoot really cheap bulk pack Rem Golden Bullets. They function fine but every few thousand rds there is a dud. That is mostly what I am talking about. With any type of decent ammo like the CCI Stingers or something like that, it is 100%. If you shoot you .22lrs enough you will have a jam or a dud. It is just the nature of the rimfire I guess. The Beretta is as reliable as any .22lr pistol I have ever shot and that is a surprise because it is tiny and has not extractor. It works fine, I was meaning to say it really jammed, it would mostly just find a dud once in a while. I don't think there is any problem with it and it is far more reliable than the P-32 I had. I just don't think any .22lr is going to 100% reliable given the long term. By contrast, my Beretta 92fs has still never jammed or had a single problem of any kind and I have shot many thousand rds of various ammo through it. It feeds every make, type, shape, weight and style of 9mm I can put in it. I have shot everything from CCI Blazers and Wolf to Corbon 115gr and it won't jam.

[mod12]

you know albanian, you fit your definition of left handed people perfectly.

[RecoilRob]

My feeling on the KelTec reliability is a qualified one. If they are fed ammo they like, most are very reliable from the factory. But, and this is a BIG but, some ammo is not compatible with some shooters. The factory recoil springs are made to work with all bullet weights and this can cause some problems for some shooters.

If you have a functional problem with any KelTec pistol, try the heaviest Wolff mainspring in it before anything else. My P-11 loves the 20 pounder and will function well with bullets as light as 90gr...so long as the loads are maximum on the lightest ones.

The P-32 seems to be able to use a heavier spring setup too. The stiff springs reduce the felt recoil and make shooting these lightweights much easier.

And, when doing your 'reliability tests' please keep in mind that the lightest pistols will also heat up the fastest. Seems that some folks expect them to shoot 200 rapid fire rounds in a very short time period and this is WAY out of the design paramaters. Shoot a couple of mags and let it cool. Repeat. I carry two KT's every day and think they are the best compromise in carry pieces on the market.

[albanian]

mod12,
I don't know who you are but I just looked over some of your past posts and you seem like someone I have no interest in knowing. You seem a sad little man who takes it personally when someone says something bad about a Kel-Crap. Well, guess what, if you don't like what you are reading, click on another post. Just like changing that channel my son. No need to sue or write a letter of complaint if you saw something on T.V. that offended your delicate morals, just change the channel and leave everybody else alone please.

Adios.

[rhubarb]

I really like my P11. I truly believe it is one of the best guns for concealed carry. Its combination of size, weight, caliber, and capacity (12+1) are hard to beat at any price. I don't see where anyone gets off saying it is cheaply made. Some corners might have been cut in its finish, but I see it as being very well made for the price. KelTec is certainly head and shoulders above the pot-metal junk guns. I know 'cause my first gun was a Davis .380. Don't insult your own knowledge of guns by comparing the two.

To answer the question of reliability, I'm pretty sure I trust it. I have shot 2361 rounds of mostly CCI Blazer 115 fmj and a box or so each of a half-dozen other brands and types of ammo. It has never failed to feed. It has never failed to eject once the case clears the chamber. It failed to fire four times out of 50 with S&B ammo, never with anything else. It fired on the second hammer pull all four times. So that's an ammo issue, not the gun. All other ammo shoots well and the gun gets more accurate the more I shoot it. ;) My gun will occasionally fail to extract if I don't clean the chamber every 100 rounds. If I remember correctly, this has happened 6 times, all around the 100 round count without a cleaning. The owner of the range says it's more'n likely the Blazer's aluminum case that causes the failure to extract. Ignoring any blame the ammo might have, that's 99.6% reliability of operation. Is that good or bad? I'm sure noone on this board would be guilty of blaming the ammo for their gun's misbehavior and say, "Except for some ammo related problems, my pistol has been 100% reliable." :rolleyes:

The one real problem I've had is that the firing pin broke a week and a half ago at the range. I called KelTec. I got a new firing pin and spring and two new extractors with pins and springs in exactly a week. That's the good customer service you hear about. 'Course, if it didn't break, customer service would be a moot point. In the KelTec's defense, I've pulled the trigger at least as many times with a snap cap in it as with live ammo. However, in a previous e-mail to KelTec, I asked about their recommended spring change interval. The reply was that all the springs should last for the entire 10,000 round lifespan of the pistol. :eek: That is the least encouraging thing I've ever heard about these guns.

[YammyMonkey]

I just took my new P11 out to the range on Fri. I wish I hadn't bought it and wasted money on a bunch of test carry ammo frankly. It was accurate and the recoil wasn't too awful but I could not get used to the trigger, near the end of the travel where you think it should break, you have to keep pulling until it almost reaches the rear of the guard.

I only shot 150 rounds, first mag or two I had a few FTFeed and a few where the gun tried to double feed the new round from the mag under the spent casing that didn't make it all the way out of the gun. No big deal, I've heard they take 200 rounds to fully break in.

What killed it for me is that around 120 rounds into it my hand was so beat up that I couldn't pull the trigger all the way to the rear using the typical trigger in the first joint crease technique. When I switched to using the pad of my index finger I almost had to throw the trigger backwards, stage it near the breaking point, realign the sights then finish my pull.

I would have zero problems with this gun if the trigger pull ended even 1/4" before it does, but as it is I was squeezing with all my might around round 140 and couldn't get the gun to go off without using the pad of my index finger. It's now midnight monday morning and my left forearm/hand is still feeling the effects from that little gun. Kel Tec makes a trigger shoe that would help, but I am not at all comfortable with putting a trigger shoe on a defensive gun.

On top of that, it really doesn't conceal any better in the Smart Carry holster than my 4" bbl ossifer framed 1911, which is why I bought it in the first place. :banghead:

I know it's not a shoot it all day long kind of gun, but I was expecting a lot more mileage out of it before my body started saying "ENOUGH ALREADY YOU IDIOT!" I could go 1000 rounds in a day with that lightweight 1911, a few hundred just doesn't seem like that much to ask. For what it's worth, I brought out my trusty lightweight 1911 and fired off 100 rounds of wolf and 100 rounds of the Speer Gold Dots (that Sportsmans Guide is selling in 50 round boxes) and had no problems at all. The Gold Dots had a lot more muzzle flash than my standard Rem Golden Saber carry ammo though. I'm starting to think I should give up on trying new things once I find something that works for me. :rolleyes:

I'm chalking up my displeasure to being a 1911 guy through and through and not being willing to give up that outstanding trigger. If you're used to a DA auto it'll probably work much better for you.

If you still want one I'll sell you mine, I have around 300 rounds of ammo for it as well if you're interested. :D

[dogngun]

I avoided Keltecs for years because I heard the "Bad rep" they had. I found a used P-32 at a great price and had to buy it. It worked. It still works all the time with Federal or Fiocchi ball ammo, and I carry it everywhere. When I can't sleep and go to the kitchen for a midnight snack, it's in my pocket. When I carry another gun, it's in my left hand pocket. When I'm unarmed, it's in my right hand pocket, with an extra mag in another pocket.

I carry this little .32 more even than my Ruger revolver or Smith auto. It has always worked, and it's the first pocket sized pistol I have found in 30 years of looking that is a keeper.


Mark

[bigmike45]

yammymonkey,

I am sorry you feel that way about your P-11. I do enjoy shooting mine....but only with a clip or two. This gun was not designed for long term shooting sessions. I found out that if you simply wear an Outers or Past shooting glove the hand is protected from the guns eating away at the flesh. I dont know what size bullets you are shooting but I have read in several forums that some folks have gone to lighter bullets to aid in recoil reduction. I shoot the Federal 147gr. Hydrashoks in mine and they are quite starchy for such a small, light gun.

Yes the trigger pull definately leaves something to be desired......but think of it this way. One of the selling points of double action vs. single action guns, especially for concealed carry is that looooong trigger pull gives the shooter time to rethink the action they are about to perform......someone elses words not mine. I happen to love to shoot revolvers and the P-11 is not much different than shooting my Ruger SP-101 in terms of trigger travel.

Mine was bought specifically as a BUG for my 1911's. So I only shoot it once in a while to make sure I can still hit what I point at.

I would love to have another but just spent the last of my mad money on an upgrade to my Springfield Champion.

[rrb]

......................

[LightningJoe]

Bought a pretty early P-11. Long break-in period (>400 rounds) before the FTFs and FTEs went away. The take-down pin (which sits inside of the slide!?) would walk out occasionally and stop the action of the gun. Three hands and three minutes to clear. Too lazy to ship it back to Kel-Tec for repair. Got rid of it.

Bought very early P-32. Would work OK until the chamber got hot (about 50 rounds), then the brass would stick in the chamber. Had to wait for the chamber to cool down to get the brass out. Also, discovered what rimlock was when I used JHPs. Switching to FMJ got rid of the rimlock and I didn't carry 50 rounds on me, so I figured the gun was fine for carrying. Then the gun stopped firing one day. When I would pull the trigger, the hammer would go back but it would never let go. I mentioned this to a guy at the gun store and he said this was an old problem with the drawbar that Kel-Tec had corrected long ago.

Still too lazy to send the gun back to Kel-Tec and still single at the time, I bought another Kel-Tec P-32 with a much later serial number. This gun worked fine right out of the box and I carried it every day for years.

[rhubarb]

I had to resurrect this thread in light of the ongoing mixed reliability of my P11.

At the range last week, at round 36 of a box of 50 CCI Blazers, my P11 failed to return to battery. I dropped the mag and worked the slide a few times. It was stiff at first, but then smoothed out. I figured it was dry and put a few drops of CLP on the slide rails. I then finished the box without further incident.

I got home and disassembled the pistol to clean it. Upon inspection, the ejector was broke smooth off. Hmm. Danged unreliable POS KelTec. That's it. I'm gonna buy a real gun now.

Thinking about it, I realized that the ejector must have bent up, causing it to fail to return to battery. When I worked the slide the ejector broke off, freeing it up. And then I shot 14 rounds through it with no ejector?

So I went back to the range yesterday to see if an ejectorless P11 would eject. I loaded one round and squeezed it off. Ping! The case hit me right in the forehead. Then I loaded two rounds and shot them. Then a whole magazine. 100% Reliable. Now at 2650 rounds through my KelTec with two serious failures.

Tomorrow (Monday) I will call KelTec and they will send me a new ejector free of charge. I will put it on and continue to carry the P11 until I can afford another gun (thinking Ruger P95). I will keep the P11 and probably carry it sometimes but I will never completely trust it. My next gun won't be a KelTec.

It's a sad irony that their whole product line is concealeable guns aimed explicitly at the personal protection market but they have a reputation for being unreliable, the worst attribute of a self-defense gun.