[JustsayMo]

I'm in the market for a "new" primary carry gun for the wife. Reliablity and portability are on top of the list. Other nice to have characteristics would be, good trigger, good sights, ease of maintenance, rugged, reasonable accuracy, good value and 45 acp is the prefered caliber but we're not stuck on it.

[Chipperman]

You've left the choices pretty open with that description.

What does she shoot now? What does she like and not like about other guns you and she have?

[MikeJ]

You might want to take a look at the Taurus Millenium Pro in .45, it would seem to fit her needs.

[larry starling]

My wife had a Taurus millenium took her shooting she didn't like it. Traded it in on a Ladysmith 3913 in 9mm. She carried it for over a year. After shooting my Colt Defender she sold S&W and bought one....So if I may suggest, Buy a defender of coarse im a little biased. :evil:

[Colonel Klink]

I second the Taurus Millenium Pro in .45. Have one myself and really like it. It shoots very well and has a trigger perfect for an SD gun, long.

[sumpnz]

I really like my Sig P245. My wife also finds it within her reach for getting to the trigger without modifying her grip.Reliablity and portability are on top of the list. Other nice to have characteristics would be, good trigger, good sights, ease of maintenance, rugged, reasonable accuracy, good value and 45 acp is the prefered caliber but we're not stuck on it. If you buy used you get all of those requirements met (new the value portion might not be good enough - I bought mine used for $525+tax, $567OTD, the new one they had next to it was ~$730+tax). Sigs will go on forever so you should be able to buy used with lots of confidance. I know geekwitha.45 has about 16,000 rounds through his. All he's done, aside from normal cleaning, is replace the recoil spring after 10K rounds. And his felt just a tight as a new one.

[mainmech48]

With respect, let her make that choice. Especially if she happens to be a novice shooter.

IMHO, the very best way is to offer to enroll her in a CCW training class at a professional facility where she can try several options in size, caliber, etc. Then she can buy what has been demonstrated to her satisfaction to be best suited for her personal requirements.

One of the specialized classes for female CCW students would be ideal, as it would directly address other practical equipment issues women run into as well.

At the very least, see if you can arrange to take her to the nearest dealer facility which offers an on-site range. Many of these will have a reasonable assortment of models available as rental/demo units. There's no real substitute for first-hand experience to help make a personal decision of this importance, again IMO.

[sumpnz]

One of the specialized classes for female CCW students would be ideal, as it would directly address other practical equipment issues women run into as well. Not necessarilly. I suggested that to my wife and her response was that she didn't want to be in a class full of women. The whining and general lack of understanding from what would mostly be neophytes would have torqued her off to no end. Remember, that was her reaction, not mine - I thought she might prefer it, but was wrong.
With respect, let her make that choice. Well, he was looking for suggestions on what to try based on certain characteristics that were pretty general. I figure it's perfectly legitimate to offer specific suggestions when they are solicited.

[Double Maduro]

JustsayMo,

I would take her to the range, go to the rental counter and have her handle some guns. Rent the ones that feel good in her hands and run some ammo through them. Buy the one she shoots best.

All of us have our favorites, we can make a lot of suggestions, the only one who counts here is your wife. If she doesn't like it and shoot it well she won't carry it.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
DM

[JustsayMo]

I guess I was a little to vague.

Right now she shoots a 1911 GI model. She's comfortable with it but we'd like to retire it and not modify it (it's orginal). The magazine release, the slide stop and the safety are not ideal for her small hands but she manages it quite well. She typically outshoots most men at the range.

The ideal gun would fit her smaller hands, be very reliable and at least as packable as the 1911. She handles recoil well but would prefer it not to be greater than what her 1911 is now.

I'm really just looking for ideas. I know many of you have wives that shoot and I'm curious what they like. Once we get a few ideas well go testing and then shopping.

[sumpnz]

I'm really just looking for ideas. I know many of you have wives that shoot and I'm curious what they like. Once we get a few ideas well go testing and then shopping. My wife's not that much of a shooter, but she did rather well with a Sig P239 in .40S&W when she did the shooting portion of the CCW qualification test. She picked that over a 9mm Smith (sorry, forgot the model) and her Charter .38 snubbie (the aluminum frame DAO one). She eventually had me sell her Charter and buy a heavier .38, so now she's got a Lady Rossi .38 snubbie. We haven't shot it yet, but she said she likes the feel (and look) of it a lot more than the Charter.

She's held my P245 and though would work fine for her, though she's never shot a .45, let alone a compact one. If she wanted to shoot it I'd probably start her out with 180gr standard pressure rounds before having her try any of the heavier +p rounds. Most likely I'll get her a P239 in .40S&W for her daily carry piece since that's what she seemed to like the most so far. But I also want her to try a number of others before commiting.

I've tried a Springfield Ultra-Compact and did not care for it. The whole action felt really gritty and the slide would drop sometimes when a loaded magazine was inserted. Might have just been that particular one, but I also didn't much care for the 1911 style layout anyway.

[Peter M. Eick]

My wife likes the Beretta 96. She got her CHL with it (ccw in Texas) and does very well with it. Not a small gun, but she likes it so who cares.

[afasano]

Here's an oldie but a goodie.

Nice trade. :)

[Majic]

Why not get her another 1911 since she is already comfortable with that model?

[Trebor]

Why not get her another 1911 since she is already comfortable with that model?

I concur. If overall size and weight is an issue, she could switch to a Commander size gun with a 4" barrel instead of a full size gun with a 5" barrel.

Sprinfield Armory also has a new 7/8 scale 1911. It's chambered in .45 GAP and they'll have a 9mm version out soon. The advantage here is that the controls are a little closer and it works better for small hands. They scaled down everything about the gun just a little bit. I'm not a fan of the .45 GAP, but this is a very interesting package for the shooter with smaller hands.

[JustsayMo]

Quote: "Sprinfield Armory also has a new 7/8 scale 1911. It's chambered in .45 GAP and they'll have a 9mm version out soon. The advantage here is that the controls are a little closer and it works better for small hands. They scaled down everything about the gun just a little bit. I'm not a fan of the .45 GAP, but this is a very interesting package for the shooter with smaller hands."

Trebor,
This is more along the lines of what I was hoping too find. I don't know anything about 45 GAP but a slightly smaller scaled 1911 sounds perfect. I'll check it out. Thanks!!

[GEM]

So what's the woman's training level? Otherwise, the technobabble is rather repetitive and rather useless as there are a myriad of guns that any competent shooter would be happy with.

No magic gun makes the untrained a steely eyed dealer of death.

This is a constant topic on Glocktalk, TFL, and THR. I assume other forums do this topic as while. Nothing new to be said under the sun.

The one conclusion is that training is more important than the gun, if chosen from many quality guns.

Also, the bit about women's special classes being full of whining is bulldoody. Most women who take the courses have made a committment. Trainers tell me that they get more crap from internet commando men types in their low drag, high speed getups.

[pax]

<thread hijack>
Also, the bit about women's special classes being full of whining is bulldoody. Most women who take the courses have made a committment. Trainers tell me that they get more crap from internet commando men types in their low drag, high speed getups
GEM is right on both counts, but it doesn't matter. If she doesn't want to be there, it's not going to do her a whole lot of good anyway.

JustSayMo, I'm probably the only one who's posted on this thread who can tell you firsthand about the difference between all-women classes and co-ed classes. Of course I can't tell you about all-men classes, because although I've assisted at more than a few of those, my presence turns them into something other than all guys! :D

Pluses from co-ed classes:
Classes with mostly guys tend to push students harder to do the skills under stress. Usually the stress is competition with the other people on the line, and this can be a good thing when the student is ready to handle it. (Flip side: it can be a bad thing for a beginning shooter, who needs to be concentrating on the actual skills and not on the outcomes.)

Co-ed classes give you a chance to interact with guys if there's a role playing component. This is major and essential for realism.

Instructors for co-ed classes tend to give just a tiny bit of explanation before getting people up to do the skill. This means less sitting time, but it doesn't necessarily mean more rounds downrange. What usually happens is the instructor will end up explaining essential components while the students feel like they're doing something (eg, during dryfire) rather than while the students are sitting & merely listening. (Again, whether this is a plus or a minus depends upon your personal learning style.)

Drawbacks to co-ed classes:
Generally speaking, co-ed classes will be 90% male, 10% female. That means that unless it's a large group, there's a good chance she'd be the only female in the class. Not a big deal, but occasionally, depending on the group, that can be hard to deal with because some guys will treat the lone female as a mascot or a junior shooter or something -- even when they think they're being encouraging.

On a related note, if the instructor isn't alert, there's a dynamic that sometimes happens in a mixed group. An occasional male will appoint himself to be personal coach for the female standing next to him, and just take over her day. If she's not prepared for this and able to shut him down -- and if the instructor doesn't nip it in the bud -- it can make for a very long and trying day for her. Besides, she paid to learn from the instructor, not from the ego-tripper yapping next to her. (Incidentally, that particular dynamic often happens between married couples, and is one good reason instructors often work to keep married people away from each other on the line.)

And finally, there's always the testosterone "gotta do better than the next guy on the line" thing. Until the shooter's basic skills are well-established, this can range from mildly distracting to emotionally devastating. Once the basic skills are established, it can be a good way to build immunity to stress & other distractions.

Female class pluses:
women-only classes tend to cover a little more material. Yes, really. The instructor will usually take extra time to explain what's going on before jumping in, understanding that most women are verbal learners rather than kinesthetic ones. Because of this, there's often more pure information presented as the instructor searches for a way to verbalize what's needs to be done.

The other students may be beginning, intermediate, or advanced depending on the class. You're not going to see marginal women shooters in advanced classes, for the most part. If you take a basic class, the other shooters will be beginners whether it's a co-ed or whether it's a women's class. If you take an advanced class, same thing.

Generally speaking, women do less whining and less drama queen stuff than guys do. Again, yes, really. If there's anything more fragile than the typical male ego on the range, I don't know what it would be.

Women tend to be more encouraging to the other students and you really don't get the "outshoot the other guy" thing going on (well, most of the time). Women are more likely to jump in & help each other, cheer for each other, whatever. Again, there are exceptions on both sides, but this is what I've seen generally speaking.

Drawbacks for women's classes:
some women will talk over the instructor even when told (nicely) to shut up and listen. And they'll talk about stupid, non-related stuff, like bragging about their grandkids or whatever. This can range from mildly distracting to seriously annoying, especially since you paid to learn to shoot, not to hear about some chatterbox's grandkids.

not every woman's learning style matches the usual "explain it to death, then do it" model that is the norm for women's classes. If yours doesn't, you could end up being impatient, and missing important information because you let your mind wander at the wrong time.

because women's classes tend to be less competitive and more cooperative, shooters who need to be pushed a little -- and whose egos and emotions are ready to handle it -- might do better in the more competitive environment of a co-ed class.

some women just get along better with guys than they do with women. If that's the case, a co-ed class is probably best.


</hijack>

Ah, about the gun.

If she's particularly fond of the .45 ACP cartridge, I'd suggest she look at the small hands package on one of Kimber's smaller frames (but watch out for extractor issues).

As someone else suggested, Springfield Armory's .45 GAP is great for smaller hands (disclaimer, I handled one at SHOT Show but haven't shot it yet; I've heard good things from others but it's not the same as speaking from personal experience).

If she's ready to go to a smaller caliber, SA's 9mm 1911 patterns are great guns, cheap ammunition and fun to shoot, as reliable as any other 1911, and perfect for small hands.

If she's ready to change platforms and calibers, take a look at Kahr's lineup. Great for small hands, great for carry, and easy to shoot.

HTH.

pax

[birddog]

My wife is comfortable and very competent with her Kimber Ultra CDP (45acp).

[sumpnz]

GEM - Note the bold portion. Her assumptions may well be wrong, but they're hers, not mine. And for the record I am not an "internet commando type in low drag, high speed getups."Not necessarilly. I suggested that (women's only class) to my wife and her response was that she didn't want to be in a class full of women. The whining and general lack of understanding from what would mostly be neophytes would have torqued her off to no end. Remember, that was her reaction, not mine - I thought she might prefer it, but was wrong.

[DirksterG30]

My wife has a CZ PCR. DA/SA with decocker, 9mm, double-stack 14+1 capacity. We tried a number of guns at a local gun store - Sigs, HKs, Glocks... and she liked this one the best. She shoots quite good with it.