[Marshall]

Anyone shot one? Price? S&W M&P (http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=458227&item=1576025&sw_activeTab=1)


http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/userimages/209000_large.jpg

[scubie02]

wait, that's not an M&P, this is... ;)

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/weapons/S&wm&p_R.jpg

[larry starling]

Are they even available yet? :cool:

[Marshall]

I dunno, that's one reason I'm asking.

[Jim Watson]

Latest gen on the S&W board is that they will not be on the market til November. Having to rework the mold so the magazines will drop free.
They say it will undersell Glock substantially, to authorized personnel. Don't know if an American will get the same deal.

[SouthpawShootr]

They say it will undersell Glock substantially, to authorized personnel. Don't know if an American will get the same deal.

I'd be glad to try one out. But if pricing for normal people is anything close to Glock, forget it. I've got two S&W Sigmas, both for under $300 new. I'm satisfied with them both, but if they were closer to prices I pay locally for Glocks, I would never have bought them. Let's hope S&W doesn't go to far with this authorized personnel crap. They've lost the LE market to Glock and Sig, this new gun isn't anything cutting edge, and most departments are satisfied with their Glocks and Sig. They might get some smaller departments, but I doubt large department will adopt a new, unproven design. This came up some time ago when a local PD was selecting new guns. I happened to talk with a Captain that was involved in selection and he said new designs were specifically excluded. They did have a point, although I don't know how exactly how they defined "new." Eventually settled on USP compacts. Best way to get depts to adopt them is to get the guns out there, let officers and "civilians" buy them as personal weapons, and make damn sure that any issues that arise are handled with lightening speed and efficiency.

[Jim Watson]

Besides price and the fine old name, S&W is making much of their diassembly that does not require the trigger be pulled. Said to be at the request of Chiefs, that is not a trivial feature, I know of one local case in which a highway patrolman shot a lawyer while demonstrating takedown of his Glock 22.

The first department armed with M&Ps will probably get them free or at even trade for their old guns.

[donkee]

I agree with scubie02.......

[SouthpawShootr]

know of one local case in which a highway patrolman shot a lawyer while demonstrating takedown of his Glock 22.

You know there's going to be wise cracks about that one.

[scubie02]

something like "luckily no one was hurt" you mean? :evil:

[rde]

ROFL. (That would be it)

[Tim Burke]

There's a current thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=148634) on this gun here. I have also heard the delivery date is November. I've shot one a couple times recently, probably a box of ammo each time. The magazines dropped freely for me, but with a sample size of 1, that may not mean much. While the trigger looks like the Sigma, it doesn't feel like it. It's a very functional duty trigger. It isn't the 1911 trigger to which I am accustomed, but I think it's a significant improvement over perfection™. Long DA pull, but not heavy, and with no stacking, unlike the Sigma. Short reset for follow-up shots. Look for it soon in the Production class near you.
Ergonomics are superb, and that is where this gun shines. Grip is not boxy like the HK & Glock™, and the bore axis is low, minimizing muzzle flip.
If you hate polymer pistols, go ahead and hate it, but for the rest of us, you should shoot one before you make up your mind. The 4 people I personally know that have shot it, all experienced shooters, have all been favorably impressed.

[Coronach]

The problem with the frame/grip was only that a real neanderthal of a person could clench down hard enough on the grip to cause it to flex juuuuuuuuuust enough to bind the magazine. This is a fairly small issue, as most of us don't resemble Fessig from The Princess Bride and even if we did, we would not be trying to choke our gun during a reload, but kudos to S&W for fixing it before the gun goes to market.

The trigger on the one you shot was good? Excellent. That's a 100% "good trigger" reports thus far, which means that at the very least the trigger can be cleaned up to acceptable levels, and if we're really lucky it might come that way. Would you describe it as being like a good, smooth DA revolver trigger? That's how I've heard it described.

Thanks,
Mike

[Steelharp]

If the .45 version is ACP and not GAP... that would increase my probabilty of getting one...

[Arch]

It's about time some nicer looking poly pistols came out.

This one looks quite nice, in my eyes. It's just a pity it doesn't have an external hammer.

The other one that has the athestitics right is the Browning Pro series (or rebadged FN).

[Tim Burke]

The first shot is very much like a decent revolver trigger... fair amount of travel, smooth, with a clean break, & no stacking. If you just reset the link for follow-up shots, it is relatively short and crisp, more like a single action trigger.

[Marshall]

If the .45 version is ACP and not GAP... that would increase my probabilty of getting one...
No .45, yet anyway.
Caliber: 40S&W / 9mm / 357Sig
Capacity: 40S&W: 15+1 / 9mm: 17+1 / 357Sig: 15+1

I like the Stainless Slide with the Black Melonite finish providing a 68RHc and the Mag capacities.


I found this at Defensive Review. (http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=777)

"The most noticeable feature is a great improvement in grips. The SW 99 had three interchangeable backstraps but this one has three interchangeable grip panels that also cover the sides and markedly change the feel of the grips. The medium and large panels have a noticeable palm swell and a rubber overmould. They can be changed by the user in a matter of seconds without tools.

The trigger is exceptional and has some pretty clever engineering. It is DAO at around 7 lb. but it feels like a good revolver more than anything. The takeup is consistent without stacking.

One of the drawbacks of many polymer pistols is that they require you to pull the trigger to field strip. Part of the neat stuff with the trigger mechanism is a sear release that can only be operated with the slide locked open. There is a lever that is easily reached through the ejection port that releases tension on the sear. Then you turn the external takedown latch and the slide can be removed.

After the visit I was able to get a prototype pistol for more extensive testing and it has done quite well. Accuracy was under 3" which is good for a service pistol and the trigger makes it easy to shoot well. I've shot well over 1000 rounds without a functional malfunction. There have been a couple of light hits on primers but S&W has already made a change in the striker to correct that.

There are some design features that make the frame much more rigid than other polymer guns and seem to have a very positive effect on perceived recoil. Subjectively I think recoil is a bit less than comparable polymer guns of similar weight firing the same ammo. It is a matter of opinion but I think recoil is very moderate for a 27 ounce gun.

It has an ambidextrous slide stop and the magzine catch is reversible by the user if needed. Magazine capacity is 15 rounds in .40 and 17 in 9mm."

[9mmhpfan]

What are the advantages of this handgun over the current sigma ve editions?

[fastbolt]

What are the advantages of this handgun over the current sigma ve editions?

I only have the info I've been given, but the differences seem to be ...

The frame is sort of a composite polymer w/stainless steel subframe (rails and load-bearing areas are steel)

Greater range of grip dimension accomodation.

Better trigger. New design. Muchly improved. Changing modules can change weight.

Melonite treated stainless steel barrels & slides, instead of 'plain' stainless.

Reversible magazine catch.

Night sights.

Dual/ambidextrous slide stop levers.

Magazine disconnect as an available option. (This is still a marketable item for many L/E agencies, despite debate on public forums.)

Increased caliber availability (357SIG & .45ACP) as well as a compact model.

I may have missed some ...

[mrapathy2000]

is it melonite treated stainless or melonite treated carbon steel.

melonite treated stainless is slight overkill. similar process can be used but not quite same various effects per material. they have blackened slides for VE and GVE sigma's.

check rsrgroups site

the M&P imo looks like its going to be more of Sig Pro or XD type internals than glock. 2 pins around the take down lever ala Sig and SA XD/HS2000 and Browning Pro/FNP-9/40, FN Fourty Nine. no more proprietary rail but possibility of a magazine safety(Booooo thumb down)

[Coronach]

The first department armed with M&Ps will probably get them free or at even trade for their old guns.I missed that. You are correct. We're supposedly going to do gun for gun.

Mike

[Coronach]

And, at least some will come with a mag safety. If we go with them, ours will. :uhoh:

Mike

[fastbolt]

We were told the new pistol would have a stainless steel slide & barrel, similar to how the SW99 series has them.

Nothing wrong with a little 'overkill' when it comes to corrosion resistence.

[Marshall]

Note where it's marked stainless.....


http://firearms.smith-wesson.com/userimages/209000_large.jpg

[Coronach]

Just because it is marked "stainless" doesn't mean it is stainless steel. They might just mean that melonite is corosion-resistant. Personally? If it has the melonite finish, I'd want carbon steel underneath. No use putting up with the potential for peening soft, stainless steel when you already have a rust-resistant finish.

JMO,
Mike

[fastbolt]

When I asked the factory about the difference in stainless and carbon steel regarding Melonite treatment I was told that stainless steel receives the QP version of the process, and that carbon steel receives the full QPQ process.

Here's some info about the Melonite process: http://burlingtoneng.com/melonite.html
The info in the website seems to match what I was told by the factory folks.

S&W is well known within the industry for their heat treating capabilities, and their stainless slides and barrels are suitably and completely heat treated. The Melonite process does add something to it, though ... ;)

[Marshall]

Just because it is marked "stainless" doesn't mean it is stainless steel.

Possible I guess but highly doubtful. S&W isn't going to mark something like a slide on a semi-auto handgun stainless if it's not. They know we gun buyers would expect it to be stainless. The whole gun industry is stainless or carbon, they know that.

[TN-popo]

According to S&W...
the slide is stainless steel
initial trigger take-up is .30"
reset is .14"

[roo_ster]

If the M&P is the equal of the Glock or Sig WRT reliability, I think it would be wise to go S&W M&P.

Why? Two words: small hands. One of out local PDs mandates the Beretta 96 for all its officers, no exceptions. Ever see the grip necessitated by small hands & short fingers on the Beretta 96? It ain't pretty. Being able to switch out hte backstrap/side panels is a G-dsend for those with smaller hands.

I hope S&W give Glock a run for its money. I don't have anything against Glock, but I like the idea of several good competing designs.