How does the Glock stay accurate?


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yankytrash
March 25, 2003, 06:50 PM
I'm sittin here staring at this Glock 30 I bought recently. I'm shakin the end of the barrel, noticin the way the chamber section of the barrel locks into the slide, and generally just comparing the design to my Walther PP 32 and my 1911's, in regards to how long the inherent accuracy will last and what parts would need replacing over time.

So, am I correct in assuming that this Glock is gonna need a new slide/barrel combo over time? I don't see any other replaceable parts that would contribute to the longevity of it's accuracy. Any of you Glock owners with high round counts have to replace either of those yet?


Another quick question and I'll let ya go. I've got 5 mags for this beast. 4 10rd and one 9rd, which irks me to no end. The 9rd has a body with 10 witness holes, so I assume it has the capability of holding 10rd. Is it just a matter of cutting the spring down to get it to hold 10rd, ya think?

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Handy
March 25, 2003, 06:57 PM
A Glock barrel (and all modified Browning guns) has a lot more locking surface than a typical 1911, and no rounded lugs to round off or chip. It also has a locking section that has much more surface area than a 1911 link, and little lateral play due to the square profile and slide. As Glocks are well known to retain their new accuracy for a lot of firing, I doubt it's a problem.

From what I've been able to tell, the lockup on Glock pistols is REALLY good, that barrel has even less play than a Sig's does in battery.

yankytrash
March 25, 2003, 07:16 PM
That's what I suspected - more locking area. That's a big chunk of steel lockin that chamber to the slide, both above and below. I only got to thinking about longevity when I noticed finish wear on the front of the top locking area.

I guess I like this dang thing. That's sayin somethin, because I've been tryin to hate it and scrutinize it with every shot and every teardown, and there's really nothin bad about the design whatsoever.

Hell, she even looks good.:D Can't say the same for them full-size Glocks, but a double-stack compact just looks mean.:evil:



Oh, don't tell my 1911's I said that. They're sleepin in the safe, if they hear me I'd hate to suffer their wrath (flying plunger tubes, sticky mags, front sights flyin off, wobbly links, chipped locking lugs, oh it'd be brutal!)....:uhoh:

:D

Al Thompson
March 25, 2003, 07:22 PM
Ever get around to trying it at 100y?

isaidme
March 25, 2003, 07:23 PM
Im glad I got to read this topic while its good!!!Before the glock bashers have a chance to degrade it:D

Handy
March 25, 2003, 07:27 PM
Al, I've shot my G19 at 100 yards. It's not really much fun. I have other 9mm pistols that will hold center mass at that distance, and a .45 that is like dropping motors at that range.

Rally Vincent
March 25, 2003, 07:58 PM
isaidme, anyone who bashes Glocks are probably new to guns and are pretty wet behind the ears.

Even if you hate Glocks......you should respect the fact that they have broken barriers that other pistols could only dream about.

On top of that....No other pistol in the world has a more positive out-of-the-box reputation than Glocks. Which is why most anti-glockers can never put up a good argument without sounding stupid.:neener:

yankytrash
March 25, 2003, 08:11 PM
Al, she couldn't do 100yd clamped in a shipyard benchvise with an elephant sitting on top of the muzzle, a mouse pulling the trigger, and a 30x scope, not with 230gr ball @ 850-900fps anyway. Somebody's on drugs.

Nero Steptoe
March 25, 2003, 08:54 PM
I shoot my G17 and G21 @ 100 yds frequently. Don't have too much trouble hitting fairly small targets consistently. Most of my 100-yd shots with pistols are from the bench, not offhand.

Al Thompson
March 25, 2003, 09:06 PM
I recall you asking (or someone) asking. I've played with one at 100y, used S+B 230 grain. Once hold over was figured, it was a good area pistol. Make someone take cover ASAP. Just didn't have the sight radius to work well. Front sight was wider than the target.

FPrice
March 25, 2003, 09:11 PM
"The 9rd has a body with 10 witness holes, so I assume it has the capability of holding 10rd. Is it just a matter of cutting the spring down to get it to hold 10rd, ya think?"

No, it's just that the mags are VERY tough to load to the last round. I have a bunch of 10-round Glock 21 mags and had to force most of them to accept the last round. I was told to load them to capacity, then let them sit for a few weeks - this is supposed to make them easier to load. Supposedly this is to avoid legal problems if you were able to load more than the government-mandated number of rounds.

dhoomonyou
March 25, 2003, 10:09 PM
But not anymore, A GLOCK is a true thing of beauty.

Stevie-Ray
March 25, 2003, 10:27 PM
My G26 is an ugly black block, and I highly recommend one to anyone that asks.

Navy joe
March 25, 2003, 10:29 PM
Oh, lemme try that thing at 100, I'm starting to get ok with that plastic sproinger trigger thingy. Got some nice hits shooting my 17 at 75yds this weekend. Steel gong a foot sqaure, but I did have one group that was two touching and a third an inch away. Holding dead on with some light fast 9mm.

chevrofreak
March 25, 2003, 11:12 PM
All of the steel in a Glock handgun is treated with Tenifer (titanium nitride that actually permeates the metal) which gives it one of the toughest surfaces found in the world of metal. In other words, the chance that you will need a new slide or barrel in the life of the gun is 0, unless you manage to blow it up with an overload.

yankytrash
March 26, 2003, 12:09 AM
Navy joe, I was making 100 and 130yd shots with an ol' Hi-Power I had back there, with Winchester white box 124gr and minimal lobbing. Them 9mm's are some accurate little suckers, no doubt your 17'll do it.

Midnight
March 26, 2003, 01:52 AM
I don't think you'll be needing to replace anything to keep that gun accurate...ever.

I've shot my G34 9mm at 100 yards. No joke, I was actually able to keep 70% of the rounds in the black on a NRA 50 yard slowfire target. That's probably good for minute of torso. Out of three magazines, think I had 22 or so in the black, another 6 or so in the white, and 2 off the paper.

Lennyjoe
March 26, 2003, 04:37 AM
So, am I correct in assuming that this Glock is gonna need a new slide/barrel combo over time?

Dunno for sure. But my Second Gen G19 was manufactured in 91 and it apears to have the same slide and barrel. Dont know how many rounds the previous owners have put thru it but Im up to 3,000 rounds and its still far more accurate than I am. One ragged hole at 15 yds from a bench rest.

TheOtherOne
March 26, 2003, 11:01 AM
No, it's just that the mags are VERY tough to load to the last round. I have a bunch of 10-round Glock 21 mags and had to force most of them to accept the last round. I was told to load them to capacity, then let them sit for a few weeks - this is supposed to make them easier to load. Supposedly this is to avoid legal problems if you were able to load more than the government-mandated number of rounds

Yep. You know that little slip-over thing they ship with the new guns to help load rounds... The first few times I loaded my mags, I couldn't even get the last one in without using it. Now I can at least load it without using that thing, but it still takes some extra effort.

Boats
March 26, 2003, 11:04 AM
Rally Vincent sez:

Even if you hate Glocks......you should respect the fact that they have broken barriers that other pistols could only dream about.

On top of that....No other pistol in the world has a more positive out-of-the-box reputation than Glocks. Which is why most anti-glockers can never put up a good argument without sounding stupid.


Nothing like a little pre-emptive insecurity eh? What "barriers" do other pistols "dream" about? The hype barrier? The kaboom barrier? The frame recall barrier? The ballistic fingerprinting barrier? The phase 3 malfunction barrier? The limp wristing barrier? The $550 for a $75.00 pistol barrier? Please, do tell. Glock fans use the company's circus trick gun rag ads like a drunk uses a lamp post--not for illumination, but for support, because they seemingly feel they have to justify or evangelize their belief in a pistol many people hate for valid reasons. Glocks are okay, with a retarded grip angle, and a disingenuous "safety system," but they ain't all that.

I can think of many pistols that have just as good out-of-the-box reputations as Glocks. However, unlike SIG, HK, or Beretta, Glocks do take the negligent discharge crown. Revel in your adequacy. People who don't like Glocks may seem irrational to you, but irrationality is in the eye of the beholder.

krept
March 26, 2003, 11:31 AM
they seemingly feel they have to justify or evangelize their belief in a pistol many people hate for valid reasons.

I see this all the time with every platform and every caliber choice. Irrationality is in INDEED the eye of the beholder. Sometimes people make inflated claims about their platform/caliber choice and sometimes it's best to let those things go (what do you have to gain? reassurance that your choice is better for you?).

If you can come up with a caliber or platform that someone else on the forum can't deride for whatever reason, make a post about it... i.e. "10mm 1911s are the BEST!"

Obviously with the amount of Glocks used in competition (and their effectiveness in competition), by self defense instructors, etc. there is something to them. I think Glocks are great, but I prefer a different platform.

shooting4fun
March 26, 2003, 02:43 PM
G'day yankytrash and et al.,

I'll have a go at the 100 yard shots. It can be done and done off-hand. I've got a bowling pin sitting on my desk with a federal [ok, american eagle] 230 FMJ in it. It was the first round I launched at it. The pistol club was raising money for holiday food baskets, so at the end of the pistol match, they asked for a buck a shot no sequential shots. All I had with me was my Glock 30 and the rounds that I used for the match.

Better lucky than good any day! Cheers!

Handy
March 26, 2003, 03:14 PM
The Glock slide and barrel are Nitro-carburized, not Titanium nitrade. I don't think all the metal parts are tennifered, the connector certainly isn't. The striker and extractor may or may not be.

Nero Steptoe
March 26, 2003, 05:30 PM
Boats, you must be the happiest guy on Earth!









Ignorance, apparently, really is bliss!

yankytrash
March 26, 2003, 06:13 PM
There's dang sure love/hate relationship with this Glock stuff, ain't there now?;)

Ran another couple hundred rounds through'r today. Told my buddy as we were scoungin brass, "[insert blasphemis saying here], I guess I gotta like this dang little thing. She dang sure shoots where I want'r to shoot, and she feels good enough for me to call it 'her', so I guess I'll keep it around awhile. Daggone thing....".:D

Oh, btw, 230gr whitebox wouldn't get anywhere near a 100yd target with two shooters, from rest. I still would have to see it to believe it, except for real-world examples like shooting4fun's. ;)

Boats
March 26, 2003, 06:22 PM
Where ignorance is bliss,'Tis folly to be wise.
Thomas Gray (1716-1771), British poet.

Here is a quotation that captures the essence of many Glock lovers:

From passions grow opinions; intellectual laziness lets these harden into convictions.

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844–1900), German philosopher.

I said Glocks are okay. The people who espouse them as if they are the One True Faith of handgunning are the ones suffering from a knowledge deficit. One visit to a forum which shall remain nameless because this is The High Road reveals the truth of my statement. All of that enlightenment for the staggering price of the mere effort of enduring the general forums there for a few minutes.

Have a nice day!:p

Handy
March 26, 2003, 06:37 PM
Boats opinion may not be.... welcome? But it isn't factually incorrect.

The Glock is not a magical pistol. It has several downsides, which he mentions. It is not the most reliable, most accurate or most break proof gun ever. It is an effective fighting tool, but I have to agree that there weren't any broken "barriers" or new standards set. Anything you can do with a Glock can be done with at least ten other pistols.

It's a nice enough gun if you like it, but it's certainly not a solution to any problem.

And there is plenty to dislike about them, without being "ignorant".

yankytrash
March 26, 2003, 07:55 PM
Being a lefty, I do hate the slide lock. Have to almost ungrasp the pistol to get it to release. Could be dangerous in a speed moment, like competition or general messing around back at the range. One slamfire and she'd be on the ground.

Mylhouse
March 26, 2003, 08:03 PM
I sure hope they stay precise for a long time to come, because my G20 does 1.5" @ 25 yards with little effort (hands resting on the table, of course), using the stock barrel. I have a fitted Barsto for it also, and that barrel puts the stock one to shame. If I can have this kind of precision for the next 50,000 rounds, I'll be a really happy camper.

yankytrash
March 26, 2003, 08:09 PM
Oh, finally got that mag to take 10rd. Read where sometimes they need to be slapped around abit. Loaded 9rd in'r and beat'r senseless, like a spider crawlin up my leg. Last round dropped right in.;)

Lennyjoe
March 27, 2003, 05:15 AM
Being a lefty, I do hate the slide lock. Have to almost ungrasp the pistol to get it to release.

Lefty here too. Learned to use my index finger to release the slide and my middle finger to release the mag. Still got some control with my last two fingers and thumb to keep control of the weapon. Takes alot of practice though. So I've learned.

chevrofreak
March 27, 2003, 08:59 AM
why use the slide release at all? pop in the mag, pull the slide back, the stop releases, then let it slam home

GlocksRock
March 27, 2003, 09:57 AM
It is my understanding from all the reading I have done on the subject that the Glock will get more accurate the more you shoot it, so long as you do your part.

Handy
March 27, 2003, 10:38 AM
The Glock will not get more mechanically accurate, but the shooter should improve.

shooting4fun
March 27, 2003, 12:10 PM
G'day All,

Regarding the accuracy of Glocks or any other pistol design, it appears that a consistent lockup of all the parts is a key. What I mean is the ability to the pistol to return to the same state for each shot cycle. Most folks key in on the barrel to slide lockup. That is why you see quite a few folks pushing on the barrel hood to see if it wiggles. Similarly the do the same at the muzzle end.

In 1911 pattern pistols there are a number of things to improve accuracy. Get a good barrel and have it fitted properly. ie. hood mates up with slide well, bushing lapped in to muzzle end of barrel, barrel link and lugs properly engaged and etc... Then there are the aftermarket items such as "group gripper" a device to provide spring tension on the barrel to enhance engagement of the rear surfaces of the barrel and slide. In a Glock, a similar function as the group gripper is that little spring that pushes up on the barrel. Yeah, the one that is attached to the dis-assembly tabs. If you have a good look at it, it pushes the barrel upwards, which enhances the lockup of the barrel and slide.

Just observations to share with all. Obiviously, not the only factors for accuracy. There are many others to include the operator. I've got to find some time out at the range to continue the research! Get out there and support the shooting sports! Cheers!

Baron Holbach
March 27, 2003, 12:43 PM
I was for a long time sceptical of Glocks. Then I shot my friend's G34 and immediately became a convert. Within a month, I acquired the G21, 34, and 35. I have cycled hundreds of flawless and accurate rounds through the first two. The 35 is anxiously waiting for me to take it to the range. In the mean time, I am looking for another Glock. Whenever I contemplate buying another 1911, doubts intrude and visions of a Glock appear.

Navy joe
March 27, 2003, 05:41 PM
Slidelock. First, install an extended one. When I use mine I do it with the trigger finger. Normally though I release the slide by seating the magazine with authority. In fact, the heel of my right hand still hurts from all that authority. If it does not unlock (like with a NFML hi-cap I just overhand rack and release.

stevelyn
March 28, 2003, 11:38 AM
The manual of arms for the Glock pistol does not advocate or advise releasing the slide by depressing the slide lock after seating a magazine.
The proper way (taught in Glock armorors class) to release the slide or to charge the pistol from a loaded magazine w/ slide in battery, is to grasp the slide overhand with at least three fingers and the heel of the non-firing hand, and violently retract and release while pushing forward with the firing hand. This does two things.
First, it creates enough inertia for the slide to reliably strip and chamber a round from what is usually a tight, fully loaded magazine.
Secondly it ensures that the slide goes fully into battery and securely chambers the round. This is similar to the force generated by firing a round in a properly gripped pistol ensuring consistent slide forward position.
Another reason is that the Glock pistol is partially cocked when in battery and has to overcome additional spring pressure when the engagement surfaces of the striker and trigger connector collide to bring the pistol to it's partially cocked status.
Never release the slide using the slide lock when loading the pistol. It's only purpose is to allow you manually lock the slide open when performing maintenance or chamber inspection on the pistol once the magazine is removed.

Island Beretta
March 28, 2003, 09:42 PM
I agree fully with Handy's last 2 posts.

N.B. The Beretta 92fs series has the title for best out of box pistol!!!

Glocks are quite often touted as the all-encompassing solution to handgun's problems.. It is certainly not the most accurate, reliable, ergonomic, value-for-money pistol around. Their is nothing revolutionary about its design and it has gone through several major and necessary upgrades in its short existence (possibly more than any of the top pistols of today-Sigs, Berettas, HKs etc.).

That said I think the Glock is the most size-efficient pistol around today, I mean a G19 compact can carry 18 shots in a regular mag. The Beretta on the other hand is often criticised for being unnecessarily big for its capacity- my Compact L is about the same size has a G19, with a longer barrel and having carried both at different times, I am just as comfortable with both.

The Glock is also easy to shoot accurately because of its grip angle and trigger setup. Again however other pistols e.g. BHP are also easy to shoot accurately. It is a pistol that I like a lot but it sits second to the Beretta for concealed carry where absolute reliability is a must!!. My prospective backup (sometimes sole carry) is a revolver - again absolute reliability is the ultimate criteria for CCW.

kidcoltoutlaw
March 28, 2003, 10:25 PM
do they have it in the first place.

Yohan
March 28, 2003, 10:26 PM
anyone who bashes Glocks are probably new to guns and are pretty wet behind the ears
The moist thing behind us Glock bashers? It's called the brain :neener:

Glocks may be reliable right out of the box, but so are baseball bats. :D

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