Shotgun for Bear defense ??

[rory1957]

My cousin will be deer hunting using a rifled-bore 12 gauge. He will be in black bear country and will be using some sort of slug in his shotgun. My hypothetical question is this: what would be the best load to use if you were to be attacked/charged by a larger black bear, and the weapon in your hand was the aforementioned 12 gauge. 3" slugs ?? 2 3/4" double-ought buckshot ? Why ???

Thanks in advance for your opinions on this.

"Where is the weapon with which I enforce your bondage ? You give it to me every time you open your mouth."
-- Frank Herbert

[riverdog]

Treadwell's End (http://survival.com/IVB/index.php?showtopic=5371&pid=46516&st=0&#entry46516) Rem 870 with slugs seems to be the weapon/load of choice.

[Coronach]

I have no practical experience with bears, period. Most people who do have practical experience with them seem to prefer either high-powered rifles or shotguns loaded with slugs. Buckshot just won't penetrate far enough, I gather.

Mike

[CARRY'IN]

I have a little experience with bears. Buckshot will kill them of course. It just wont stop one if it really wants to tear you up. If the bear dies an hour (or a week) after it rips your head off I guess you should have used slugs. I would say buckshot will discourage nine of ten bears, but if you are unlucky enough to get attacked, you are probably unlucky enough to run into that tenth bear.

[PJR]

Buckshot might discourage them but do you want a wounded bear in the neighborhood?

I live in what is marginally bear country. I use Brenneke slugs. I haven't had to shoot one yet but if I do I know they will get the job done. I've shot enough things with buckshot not to have the same degree of confidence.

[LaEscopeta]

Here is one case of black bear vs. 12 gage slug:

http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/content_sub/hunting_data/black_bear_a/black_bear_a.html

(More information than you would ever want to know.)

Note the bear was shot once, and it took 2+/- minutes to die, moving 30 yards in that time. With dangerous game, weather hunting or self-defense, it is a good idea to have follow up a shot(s) ready.

[1911 guy]

use slugs, as has been suggested already. Some pump guns can be finicky when feeding slugs and 3" shells have given some fits. Either cycle the 3" loads through your shotgun EXTENSIVELY to determine reliability or stick to 2 3/4" slugs.

[rick_reno]

Slugs - whatever length will feed very reliably in his gun.

[TMM]

"12 gauge slug can kill anything on god's green earth"

i'd choose 3 1/2" slug, if that's availible. loaded with Brenneke slugs.

[mete]

Winchester Partition rounds are VERY impressive and accurate.

[JShirley]

LaEscopeta,

You will note that the slug is question was a reduced recoil (ie, less powerful) slug. A slug built for shooting large game instead of for law enforcement usage would have probably put the bear down quicker.

I like and use Remington RR slugs, but griz and brownies do not live in GA.

John

[birddog]

A lot of the black bear camps I've hunted in have seen many successful hunters using slug guns, with definitive results.

[pauli]

hard to go wrong with slugs.

[willeo6709]

fosters would be the choice ropund... sabot may expand but fosters won't shrink. raw muzzle energy at less than 25 yards nods to the heaviest fosters. I'd stick with whatever load gives me the highest capacity....2-3/4" and planty of them.

[Dave McCracken]

The Rottweil Super Brenneke at 1 3/8 oz would be my choice for large carnivores, mastodon and APCs. Great sectional density for penetration, bore sized nose for energy transfer.

This happens to be the top choice of park rangers who deal with nuisance bears, I understand.

Black bear, just about any 12 gauge slug oughta do the job. Different critter than the aptly yclept Ursus Horriblis....

[Tom Held]

Dave's right. These are not grizzlies. You don't need much to stop a black bear. A big one in the northeast will only weight about 175 pounds. I have a friend in Idaho that has killed dozens with a 243 Winchester. I ususally just yell "get the hell out of here" and they take off.

[Nnobby45]

Foster slugs are soft. The hollow base needs to expand so the slug doesn't rattle down the bore. They tend to offer good expansion in game, and some may flatten out like a pancake at the expense of penetration, while others aren't as soft. I suspect they be good for black bear, but have no personal experience.

Brenneke slugs are very hard. They smash bone, penetrate deep, usually thru and thru, and expand little. They'd be my choice for Grizzly country, or where one may encounter a rather large hog, or other large dangerous critter--where deep penetration, even thru bone, was important. Either 1oz Rottweil, or 1 1/8 short mag. As Dave mentioned, the 1 3/8" Brenneke may be as good as it gets--If a critter were trying to eat me for breakfast, I doubt I'd notice the recoil. Surprisingly, neither the 1 or 1 1/8oz Rottweil has recoil nearly as bad as Federal's standard 1oz.

Sabots are very accurate from rifled barrels, and offer excellent penetration, since they don't need to be soft. They aren't at their best in smoothbores (I'm being kind :D ), and are smaller caliber. Some specialized sabot ammo is the ultimate in penetration where slugs are concerned, and some have controlled expansion.

Basic stuff here. I make no claims to being expert in their use on various critters--but there may be those on the board who are.

[greyeyezz]

A big one in the northeast will only weight about 175 pounds.

Wrong. Check your resources on PA black bears.

[Tom Held]

You are correct. I know that PA bears often exceed 500 pounds. I think someone killed one with a bow a year ago that weighed in at 800+. That's a serious bear. I was thinking more of the New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine bears. Most of those are small.

I shot one in Idaho last year that weighed 325 and was considered a better than average bear. One of the guys in my group shot a black that weighed 425 and would have made boone and crockett except for the head shot that destroyed the measurements. That was the biggest bear that the guide had ever seen in Idaho.

A sportswriter here in Maryland killed the first black bear of the newly opened season last year. Took it in to the check station all proud as hell and it weighed 85 pounds. Jerk killed a cub.

Thanks. Tom

[pauli]

according to the va hunting booklet, someone took a 740lb black bear in suffolk in 2000. normal for va seems to be 2-300lbs for males, 1-200 for females.

apparently, the record black bear was 880lbs in nc. probably a mutant nazi zombie bearspider in disguise.