real shtf - new orleans

[wallysparx]

for those not in the know, here's what's happening in new orleans due to the hurricane:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050828/ap_on_re_us/katrina_superdome

apparently the superdome is being utilized as a mass emergency shelter. however, they are preventing anyone from bringing in knives or guns.

so my question is, would you lock up your guns in your safe at home and take refuge in the superdome, and hope your house (and your gunsafe) are still there when you get back? somehow try to smuggle in something to for your defense? or would you hunker down with your favorite shotgun in hand to protect your property from heartless looters?

personally, i think i'd send my family to the shelter, but stay at home to protect what's ours. my pickup would of course be my bug-out vehicle and ready to take off at a moment's notice.

and good luck to anyone who really has to deal with these decisions right now.

[Greg L]

For most of those people staying home isn't an option. New Orleans was built below sea level & only has a 13' levee protecting it. The storm surge is supposed to be 20+ feet with 30' waves on top of that. If you live in NO, your home will be under water. Having a pickup won't do you much good when it has 10' of water over it.

With this much warning the survivor types evacuated days ago. Those that are left are about to enter hell.

When the .gov is telling you to watch out for flying cars you know it is going to be bad. From the NOAA site: http://weather.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/iwszone?Sites=:laz062


DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT
LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL
FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY
DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.
PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD
FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE
BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME
WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A
FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH
AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY
VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE
ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE
WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN
AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING
INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY
THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW
CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE
KILLED.

[444]

:eek:

[hso]

Like the report indicates this isn't "I'll wait it out and defend my property agianst looters". Anyony staying will be subjecting themselves to one of the great natural selection opportunities. Mother Nature doesn't care and her offspring Katrina will just as casually kill anyone that doesn't give way to her and scatter their property to the winds as she will ignore the lucky. If you think that it's appropriate for you to decide whether to stay or not you're missing the vital point that this thing could be a monster and there may not be any point to staying because looters and defenders that weren't smart enough to heed the warnings will all be washed away. There is no "fight" just flight.

[MikeIsaj]

Wallysparx where do you live? Have you ever been in a hurricane? No offense intended but is sounds like you don't have a clue.

In the NOLA situation right now, looting is the least of your problems. If you have the brains and ability, you should already be outta there! What type of gun would you use to prevent the Gulf of Mexico from sweeping through your house? Stay and defend your home now and you will be long drowned and gone by the time the first looter shows up.

The people seeking refuge in the superdome are the poorest of the poor and the not so bright. They are the people who don't have a car and don't have the sense to get on a bus ahead of time since they don't have a car. They are the people who place all their trust in government to take care of them so they don't have to. A woman just said she didn't leave because she knew her city would provide a shelter and the red cross will feed her. Do you really think adding weapons to that pot is a good idea? Would you leave your family there for the government to take care of? If I lived in NOLA, I'd be in Missouri by now.

[ken grant]

With all the transportation in N.O.(buses,schoolbuses,etc.) why didn't the city just haul everyone away to safer ground?
Not only would they have helped the people,but would have saved the buses as well. :confused:

[444]

"They" also said that they don't know if the Superdome can withstand wind speeds like they are expecting.
To repeat what has already been said, staying is not an option.
There is no shelter from this storm if it turns out to be everything they say it is.


As I have pointed out in numerous threads on the subject of SHTF, or BOBs or whatever: SHTF senarios happen all the time to real people. This isn't some vague concept for the fringe of society. This hurricane is a good example. If I was living in that area, it would be a great load off my mind to know that I had made a plan, had equipment ready to go so that when this warning was issued, I could execute my plan.

[HighVelocity]

The rest lined up for blocks in the muggy heat, clutching meager belongings and crying children as National Guardsman searched them for guns, knives and drugs

That's a bunch of BS right there. :scrutiny:

[javafiend]

A major hurricane could decimate the region, but flooding from even a moderate storm could kill thousands. It's just a matter of time. (http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf?/washingaway/thebigone_1.html)

"A catastrophic hurricane represents 10 or 15 atomic bombs in terms of the energy it releases. Think about it. New York lost two big buildings. Multiply that by 10 or 20 or 30 in the area impacted and the people lost, and we know what could happen." --Joseph Suhayda, LSU Engineer

[thereisnospoon]

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty...

I was watching FOX news earlier and thought how amusing it was that even though it was raining very hard, they were still keeping everyone out until they could be searched.

Criminals, every last one of them, until proven otherwise :cuss:

[lesjones]

Anyone who thinks it's worth sacrificing their life to prevent their guns being taken by looters, their priorities are misplaced. Do you think your family would rather have you or your guns?

[Ryder]

They said this Superdome is designed to withstand 200mph winds.

That's some coincidence. This is the speed of the gusts they are reporting.

I hope it stays up.

[skynyrd1911]

Having been near a hurricane in South Carolina in the late 70's, tonight I pray for everyone in that part of the country. The one I was close to made a believer out of me and I was nowhere near the eye.

[dpesec]

thereisnospoon, that's exactly what I was thinking when I saw that.

[iiibdsiil]

My girlfriends grandfather is stubborn, and is staying. He is in Slidell, which is close to the LA/AL border. Say a prayer, I don't want to be attending a funeral because of this thing.

[Waitone]

Snakes, where will the snakes go? :scrutiny:

[Crosshair]

Let the wife and kids stay at the dome. Pile up all the important stuff and let dad haul butt North in the car. Not the ideal situation, but seems to be the best available. Mom and the kids are safe and dad can protect all the important stuff while not having to worry about the other members.

[Greg L]

You're assuming that the dome is going to survive Crosshair. The "experts" I've heard talking about it only think that it will survive.

Add to that the fact that you suddenly have thousands of people/junkies going through cold turkey withdrawl (drugs or cigs) & it could get ugly in a hurry. No toilets, a/c, water, lights when the power cuts out & it will get even worse. The storm possibly damaging the roof & collapsing or the floodwaters coming in with the resulting panic.

No thanks, the family stays with me & we unass the area together. Plus assuming that you/they survive the initial 24 hours how are you going to get back together? NO is under 30' of water so you can't drive up to the dome to get them. With the other flooding in the area are you sure that you will be able to get to whatever refugee camp they got dumped into? Do you have enough gas to get there & back? Etc.

We stay together & live or die as a family.

[Double Naught Spy]

personally, i think i'd send my family to the shelter, but stay at home to protect what's ours. my pickup would of course be my bug-out vehicle and ready to take off at a moment's notice.

I had to laugh at this comment about the pickup being the bug-out vehicle and being ready to take off at a moment's notice. Several years ago, there was a forest fire (in Colorado, I think) outside the rural burbs of a major city. News crews interviewed those loading up to flee, and one guy who wasn't packing.

When asked why he wasn't packing, he said he didn't see a need to pack up when there wasn't a credible threat. His house was in a valley protected by a steep ridge between him and the fire. He said he would pack up when he saw the flames comng over the ridge as then the threat was credible.

A couple of days later, he was interviewed again. It seems fire did sweep through the valley after coming over the ridge. The fire came through so fast that he barely got out with his car and never had a chance to load up his belongings.

The swiftness of the fire surprised the guy and cost him dearly. No doubt this resulted from his lack of understanding when it came to fires. The same goes for hurricanes many times. wallysparkx is of the belief that he can leave at a moment's notice, apparently when he would recognize the time to leave correctly based on his observations. No doubt he will recognize said time only after being inside the hurricane. By that time, driving through the hurricane will be very dangerous because of things like the winds and flying debris, but also because the storm surge and rainfall will produce flooding. His truck will be far from ideal in driving through the flood. On top of that, he may be trapped, unable to get to safety, because of debris in the road halting his egress.

[iiibdsiil]

Having lived in South Florida all my life, except for the past year, I would love to see how far you get with your pickup truck. It better have a heck of a lift on it. With a Cat-5 storm, you will have plenty to run over. And I have no idea where you would go either.

[Nimitz]

having felt the category one version of katrina, Dennis, Ivan, Frances, Jeanne, Keith, and charley....all of this at the low age of 18...I know a bit about hurricanes.

this is a GTFO situation who cares about your guns? this is your life, and your familes, whoever hasnt gotten out by yesterday...is going to die. i know thats morbid but thats the case.

I-10 is gridlocked for over 100 miles....sadly those trapped will also most certainily perish.

read this.

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf?/washingaway/thebigone_1.html

all I have to say about anyone NEAR this (near is 250 miles or closer thats the path of hurricane force winds 73mph + sustained) is God help you...

btw according to that website FEMA estimates with pumps it would take 44 hours PER HALF INCH....yes so it would take 3.5 years to drain NO....or blow the levee's with explosvies.

then everything besides wahts lower then the levee's is underwater for another month...

waste management guesses they can pump out the sewage in as litte as SIX months...

this isnt a t-storm guys...this is real, this is as real as it gets....

I pray for each and every soul in the path of this...God help you.

Chad

[happy old sailor]

to the foregoing, i add INDEED. being from louisiana originally, i went "home" in '71 when retiring from the military and experienced the usual spring flooding that occurs there. one day, wishing i had a pump, i looked at what was available. did the math on how many inches of rain was how many gallons per acre and the max volume of pumps. gave up the pump idea.

so, moved to AR and havent looked back except to go visit. my back deck is 1916" above sea level according to GPS. about right to avoid flooding.

i do feel sorry for those unprepared, even if it is their own fault. i would have got my family out of there if by hitching, with a few things, plus a gun, rather than depending on luck or the gov.

will be interesting to see the result of this in the next few days. a true tradegy for many, ppl and animals alike. a kazillion snakes will survive as they are largely water snakes down there anyway. brrrr

[Battlespace]

My prayers for those in the path of Katrina. There are so many considerations it is nearly impossible to consider them. The water that washes over the city will be filled with every chemical known, raw sewage, debris and reptiles that normally live in the neighboring swamps. How long before life in NOLA returns to a somewhat normal situation? It will be months. Reading about staying to protect guns from looters is just plain silly, for lack of a better term. The looters will be facing water over 30 feet deep and the same chemical soup and critters you will be in.

If I was a NO resident, I would have packed up and headed West to Houston or maybe Austin two or three days ago. However, since I live in a very rural area and am nearly a mile above seal level, I do not worry too much about storm surges and the like.

[redneck2]

Like my son-in-law said..

the only reason they're putting everyone in the Superdome is so all the bodies will be in one place. There's supposed to be 20 foot storm surges with 30-40 foot waves. Go outside, look for the top of the tallest tree, and that's where the water will be. Where are 100,000 people gonna go when there's 20' of water under them??

if anyone ever wanted to see NO, I hope they already did 'cause it's only gonna be in the history books now

any Believers may want to review Revelation. Biggest single natural disaster in history (Pacific rim tidal wave), biggest hurricane in history, biggest terrorist attack in history, oil prices up 500%.....all in 5 years

[Greg L]

Fox is reporting that part of the Dome's roof has already come off. The storm hasn't even gotten there yet. They're screwed :( .

[armoredman]

Dear Lord, watch over the unfortunate and berefit, keep them safe in your hand. Amen.
Now, would someone tell this suprisingly ignorant idiot why Nawlins is built below sea level? Did the sea level rise after the French built it, before we bought it? Who buils below sea level, next to the sea, where you have to depend on electric pumps to keep your house dry? And people call me nuts for living in the desert! No hurricanes out here!
I wish them well, add my prayer, but I think that's all they have - a prayer.

[Hardware]

On the bright side there are only 6,000 people in the Superdome instead of the estimated 10,000. I'll echo the previously stated, G_d help you if you are still in New Orleans. May tomorrow find you safe and reunited with your families. The big easy is going to take it on the chin with this one. CNN was interviewing the mayor and they are not expecting single story homes to survive the storm.

[MikeIsaj]

And then there's the news crews; Anyone else see the irony in a reporter telling us to get away, stay away, stay inside and stay out of the water, while standing knee deep in moving water measuring wind gusts for our entertainment after traveling down there over the weekend when everyone else was leaving.

If I was a resident that had just been ordered out, I'd be asking the Mayor why these outsiders are allowed in my front yard when I'm ordered to leave.

[Waitone]

One word: helicopters are for important and pretty people. :fire:

[444]

So helicopters are flying in 130-160 mph winds ?

[Dave Markowitz]

So helicopters are flying in 130-160 mph winds ?

Yes, just not in a controlled fashion.

Godspeed to all the good folks down in Nawlins.

[CAS700850]

And folks, this is why all of the talk on these boards about SHTF, Bug out bags, etc. is relevant. Something like this comes along, you fill the trunk/bed of the vehicle and beat feet for somewhere higher and safer. Let someone else have my spot in the shelter, I'm going back home to Ohio.

[Horsesense]

Now that you mention it, the French are the ones who sold us that town! We need to bill the French for all the work we had to do to keep that ill-conceived city habitable, and all future expenditures related to them dumping New Orleans off on us!

[Shweboner]

New Orleans has been around for over 250 years... it will still be standing in another 250.


I want to know whats going on in Gulfport/Biloxi area. All I hear about is New Orleans... I'd likemore info on the areas actually affected directly.

What about the towns in the SE of LA? Like Houma? Or other cities... if they are still there.

Enough New Orleans!! What about everyone else?

[Nimitz]

thing is...they havnt gotten to those towns yet...cant get to them or any info out...thats bad. :what:

Chad

[Sindawe]

Now, would someone tell this suprisingly ignorant idiot why Nawlins is built below sea level? Did the sea level rise after the French built it, before we bought it? IIRC, NO was build on the Mississippi Delta, on ground composed of VERY fine silt that did not deposit on the river bottom thousands of miles upstream. Its not that the city was founded on ground below sea level, or that sea level has risen that much over the past 250 some years. Like Venice, the city is sinking, and with out regular flooding, the deposition of silt no longer occurs to keep the ground level above sea level.

[AirForceShooter]

NOLA:the water is rising and nobody seems to know why.
MARTIAL LAW has been declared.
It's getting worse not better.
God help them
And Biloxi and Gulfport seem to be missing.

AFS

[CAnnoneer]

According to recent newscasts, the looting has started. Isn't it amazing that some would rather remain and burglarize than get to safety? If a brick falls on their heads or a tree crushes them, what good would the loot do them? :confused:

[Nimitz]

airforceshooter- Martial LAW?! link?

this morning I saw that in the business district brian williams woke up to water up to cars...and it wasnt there when he went to bed...

whats casuing the water to rise? lake pontachrain?....

links? I havnt been able to watch at all today....

Chad

[happy old sailor]

LA MS AL - can anyone rearrange these letters to spell FUBAR ?

[Nimitz]

I-10 is completely totaled...the road looks like a jigsaw puzzle.

"80% of mississippi out of power"

thousands stranded in NOLA and the water is RISING due to 2 levee failures.

Marines, USCG, Army, and National Guard have all been dispatched...

looting is rampant in the french quarter....

shots have been heard throughout the day.

gas leaks through out the city.

and now to effect the rest of the country.

gas prices are going to rise .50 or more...25% of the nations gas comes through the LA port...the largest port in the country and 5th largest in the world.

nearly all the oil rigs in the gulf detached...theres one sitting in the mississippi river against a bridge and another in dauphin island next to some homes.

Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida has predicted shortages and rationing of gasoline over the next few weeks....

this is just great...

Insurance is going to SKY ROCKET....not that its cheap here anyway....

Chad

[Ed]

My parents in MS are in the only neighborhood in a city of 40,000 with power. My brothers family in Jackson still has power but not many others do. My family In Gulfport was last heard from Sunday. I'm headed to MS on Saturday.

[Nimitz]

ed. your family in gulfport....they stayed?.

I hope and pray everything is well.

Chad

[Henry Bowman]

whats casuing the water to rise? lake pontachrain?.... As others have said, NO is below sea level. Giant (electric) pumps keep the city dry normally. Guess what: No power, no pumps. Water is comong from all directions. We are getting heavy rain here in the Ohio valley. Guess where it will all go. Right down the Ohio River to the mighty Mississippi to . . . New Orleans. It will get wetter before it gets drier.

[Ed]

My relatives in Gulfport.....

Most are in their 70's and lived through Camile. They were under the impression that A. it was headed mainly to NO. and B. Their houses did just fine for the 70+ years they have been there.

These are my moms cousins, Aunts and Uncles. I think I would have bugged out. They aren't RIGHT on the coast, ( well they weren't Sunday) .
In NO I wouldn't have even thought about staying. My guess is they are OK, but wishing they HAD left so they could have some AC about right now.

[Burt Blade]

When planning for bugout: Pack light. When you walk out the door, consign all things left behind to oblivion, and do not look back.

Water is life. Plan to haul it or make it pure later. Too much water is usually self correcting. Not enough water is _rapidly deadly_.

Pack light! You travel best when lightly loaded. Likewise, your vehicle will ride better and survive problems better if it is minimally loaded. Packed to the roof, and then some, it is a giant "come steal the cool stuff" flag.

Don't plan to take all your stuff. Plan to take only the stuff you need to make it from where you are, to where you plan to wind up. And remember, you are not going to fight your way through a Soviet Motorized Rifle Regiment to get there. A gun and ammo is a good idea. A long gun and sidearm may be ideal. Your whole collection and 500 pounds of ammo is just bait for some jackal.

Can't bear to leave the toys for the crooks? Remove key pieces and drop them off in your safety deposit box, or at a buddy's home.

Get out _early_.

Be prepared to abandon your vehicle and proceed by bicycle and/or foot. (Again, pack light.)

Put essential things in the vehicle _last_, including the packs you will carry when you abandon ship and proceed on foot. That rifle better not be under the pile-o-crap when Bubba and the boys decide they like your car and your wife.

Pack light. Have plenty of water. Get out early.

[Crosshair]

And people laugh at me when they see my 7 gallons of emergency water I have in my room. Assuming a gallon a day for 3 people that's enough for 3 days. Plenty of time to figure out something else. Also have supplies to make a solar still. It will make most any water drinkable. I'd say don't worry about food too much. Water is the important thing to have.