[MeekandMild]

Pax,having had more free time the past couple of weeks I've been visiting the forum more often. I noticed that you are a moderator (congradulations). I also recall a short while ago on TFL, you were new to open political discourse about guns.

So here is the question (others can reply about themselves if they wish);

How has the chance to have online discussion about guns, the RKBA, and other related subjects made you a wiser, more mature, more discerning voter?

Answering my own question, I suppose I realize more than ever that many of the ideas I hold only appear strange if they are filtered through the sieve of network television. Real discussion with real people makes a big difference.

[pax]

Sheesh, Meek! :D Feel free to toss out a thesis-sized question, why don't you? *laugh*

For years, I voted the straight Republican ticket with only lip service to "voting for the person and not the party." If I didn't know anything about the race, I voted Repub. If I didn't know anything about an initiative, I looked at the signatures on the voter pamphlet and voted for the one with the most Repubs. I generally skipped over most judicial votes and local elections because there was "never enough information" -- meaning, I didn't know which ones were Republicans. :D

Though my dad took me plinking as a kid, I've only been shooting on my own for a little more than two and a half years. Before that, RKBA was not an issue for me at all, though whenever the issue came to my attention (eg an initiative), I would usually vote pro-gun and against the antis. But that was it. I wasn't at all aware of the issue, nor of many others.

Since I've been online, I've gotten a lot more aware of freedom and libertarian issues. I mean, a lot more.

That's made me a more conscientious voter on several levels. I'm a lot less likely to blow off the local elections, because I know that the local stuff is what drives the national stuff. I'm more likely to write letters to the editor of my local paper, because I know I'm not the only nut in the world who thinks more freedom would be a Good Thing. I'm more likely to write to my congresscritters because my online friends give me such good talking points.

In addition to all that, there's a certain ... mmmm ... energy? That comes from knowing I'm not the only one of me around. I may be the only one in Lewis County who thinks the Patriot Act was an unconstitutional power grab, but there are plenty of folks online who give me the impetus to keep nattering about it and remembering it clear up until the next election cycle.

Oh, and since coming online I've never again had the excuse of "not enough information" for skipping an election.

Others?

pax

Getting information off the Internet is like getting a glass of water from Niagara Falls. -- Arthur C. Clarke

[UnknownSailor]

Ever since I decided to take my vote seriously, I have been craving something like these message boards. Due to circumstances beyond my control (overseas, then haze grey and underway), I was not able to get online on a regular basis until relatively recently (1999). Now, I am much more discerning as to where to put my vote, since I can see all the facts, and many different points of view.

As an example, I knew Clinton was bad, even while he was running in 1992, but I had no idea how bad until I was able to get elbows deep into the internet. Now, I wonder how his own protective detail didn't shoot him dead inside of 2 years. :rolleyes:

[Blackhawk]

How has the chance to have online discussion about guns, the RKBA, and other related subjects made you a wiser, more mature, more discerning voter?

Answering my own question, I suppose I realize more than ever that many of the ideas I hold only appear strange if they are filtered through the sieve of network television. Real discussion with real people makes a big difference.
Good question, and good answer, Meek.

The Internet is like having an immense library at my fingertips, but there's absolutely no way to explore even a smidgen of what's there much less sift it to separate truth from fiction.

Copasetic forums like TFL (past), THR, and FR (past) where like minded people congregate make the finding and sifting processes much easier. And it's NOT one-on-one all the time. Drizzt and 2 dogs are better than a clipping service because they manage to dig up all kinds of interesting articles. Mike Irwin has an encyclopedic knowledge of history analogous to Tamara's knowledge of all things guns.

There are a few bloviators and even a few jerks, but the innate human drive to learn and teach is prevalent. It always pleases and fascinates me to see the extremes strangers will go to on online forums to help when there's something I can't figure out.

One of the most amazing things about forums, especially THR, is how the language skill level increases among members as things progress. When a post doesn't make sense, replies ask what's meant. The poster learns clarity. I'm REALLY impressed with some of THR's younger members like Drjones, nsf003, etc., who have language and personal skills well beyond their years.

[cuchulainn]

Wow, you really dislike Ashcroft don't you Meek.

Well, other than his (for now) pro RKBA stand, I'm not much of a fan of Ashcroft either, but is it really fair to slander him with a quote that seems bigoted but which he insists was taken out of context? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,45410,00.html

There are plenty of statements that Ashcroft stands behind that would make him look just as small minded. Your attack on Ashcroft would be stronger if you used one of those.

[Sergeant Bob]

Wow, you really dislike Ashcroft don't you Meek.
Cuch, I think maybe you hit the wrong target (thread)?

[pax]

Bob,

No, I think he was referring to Meek's sig line.

Rather a brilliant bit of deconstruction, actually.

Even if it was a blatant case of hijacking the thread... :scrutiny:

pax

To know a person's religion we need not listen to his profession of faith but must find his brand of intolerance. -- Eric Hoffer

[sm]

MeekandMild
pax
Blackhawk

Said it better for me than I could for myself.

Older I get the more I realize I don't know.

Blackhawk told me I couldn't become an offical curmgdeon for another 12 years (60), so I'll go back to my corner to read and learn.

[Sergeant Bob]

Thanks pax, need to read a bit more carefully i guess.

[cuchulainn]

Pax, I my comment was directed directly at Meek's concern about "being a wiser, more mature, more discerning voter." I was 100% on topic, if a little cryptic.

[MeekandMild]

Back on topic again, it is not just the positive discussions which help. I have also learned to deal better with the negative emotions engendered when I meet someone who has wrongheaded ideas. This forum is ideal for cool reflection and as Pax says, deconstruction. So it allows better understanding of the falsehoods underlying much of the political process than does a simple reading of the newspaper or a quick watching of the talking heads on t.v.




Concerning C's totally off topic mention of my tagline, I don't expect someone to really understand the concepts unless they have come to Christian enlightenment from the perspective of a 20 year study of comparative religions and human behavior from the atheist perspective as I did. The words are true no matter who said them and for what reason.

[labgrade]

I've been a failure analysis engineer in the disk drive design business. (Lots of things don't work when dealing with "majic," ;) & you gain a sense of some things - sometimes, & the surprises are all the more surprising because of themselves .... )

I have found that with politics, is it sometimes better to just point out the descrepanicies - through that, allow the observer draw their own conclusion/s. Sometimes it works.

I have many a time been shot for being the bearer of bad news.

:D

[Art Eatman]

I've lived in or travelled extensively in some 20 coutnries, beginning with my junior year of high school in Manila in 1949/1950. Sorta seen how other folks live, what other regimes are like. All that travel gave me some perspective about what's good or bad as to political viewpoints.

Wound up working in state government, and then within governmental environmental stuff involving state and federal programs. Wrote a bit of legislation for the Texas Lege, which put me into enough contact with that group to get a serious case of the urps. This affected my views as to the efficacy of governmental do-goodism.

Got into RKBA with the efforts against the GCA '68.

The Inet is a source of all manner of information to me, but the more important aspects are two: I ain't alone in my views; and what's going on elsewhere. (The Jim March efforts, e.g.)

As far as voting for candidates, I still have a very strong belief that one should learn as much as possible about who will be the advisors to any elected person. What campaign debts must be paid? What are the views about RKBA among these advisors or persons of influence? The Inet can help in learning this sort of stuff.

For instance, in Texas, Ann Richards was far more commonsensical than is often believed. However, in order to get elected, she had to incur way too much political debt to "our enemies". This led to bad policy and bad appointments--bad for the entire population, not just gun-owners. The same sort of thing can lead to an ostensibly sensible Republican being a RINO...

Art