My Quest for Sub Sonic 22 RF Bulk Packs - join me


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Rob62
August 29, 2005, 10:46 PM
I am hoping that some of you might be interested in an ammunition manufacturer marketing a value or “Bulk Pack” of .22 Rim Fire SUB SONIC (STANDARD VELOCITY) ammunition. In addition, are willing to let your feelings be known to the ammunition producers.

I have thought about this long and hard, and believe it is time that this type of product comes to market. Currently no manufacturer makes any type of Bulk Pack of this ammo. By “Bulk Pack”, I am referring to the packaging of 500/550 rounds of loose cartridges in one small box. Such as the Bulk Pack of Remington “Golden Bullets”, but these are high velocity. There are other Bulk Packs available by assorted manufacturers of high velocity cartridges, but no sub sonics.

You may ask why do we need this product with so many different ammo choices already out there. My reasoning is two fold. First and fore most I think that everyone will agree that standard velocity ammunition will shoot the most accurately out of most firearms for most shooters. Many knowledgeable shooters, specially those that trick out guns like the Ruger 10/22 will usually look for standard velocity ammunition, such as PMC Moderator, CCI Standard Velocity or Wolf Target, to get the most accuracy out of their guns. All of these cartridges are at the lower price end of sub sonic ammunition. However, they still cost about $3-5 per box of 100. By packaging ammunition in Bulk Packs the manufacturer saves money and is able to pass on these savings to the consumer. So my thinking is that there is no reason that an ammunition company should not be able to put Bulk Packs of Sub Sonic ammunition on shelves in the same price range as high velocity bulk packs, around $9-$11. This is quite a saving over the $15-$25 that a brick of generic Sub Sonic ammunition usually costs.

I would like to start a write in / e mail campaign to Federal Cartridge Company, and try to get them to produce this item.

All that should be involved is to re-calibrate their loading machines to load a reduced powder charge in a HV cartridge they currently make. Of course they would have to produce a bulk container with different printing on it. Otherwise, there seems to be no down side for them. I absolutely believe that their 22RF sales would increase.

I just don't know why no one has produced this item yet. Possibly no consumers have asked them too. So I’m asking you that if you’d like to see Bulk Packs of Sub Sonic .22 RF ammunition on your suppliers shelves to contact Federal and let them know your feelings. Posting here and complaining how they will never do it, or that there isn’t a need for this item is your choice but if you like me want this product then let your feelings be known to those that could realistically produce this item.

I choose Federal because I feel they are the one company that actually might look at this issue seriously. There are a lot of firsts that Federal has done in the past and they might want to chalk up another one by being the first company to offer Bulk Pack Sub Sonic ammunition to the shooting community.

The E mail address for their Product Service Department is: prodserv@atk.com

Web address: http://www.federalcartridge.com

Other contact information is:

Federal Cartridge Company
900 Ehlen Drive
Anoka, MN 55303-7503
1-800-322-2342
Fax: (763) 323-2506


Regards,

Rob

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Kamicosmos
August 29, 2005, 11:41 PM
Well....i see many holes in your theory.

First off, most of the bulk ammo is the stuff that failed QC. I actually AVOID loose packed bulk 22 ammo. I figure if you can twist the bullet out by hand, that's bad. I also have had many many failure to fire in bulk ammo, but never a single failure in my pricier ammo.

Second, your argument that subsonic ammo is more accurate and people with 'tricked out' 22 use it....well. Maybe, but they run MATCH ammo, not bulk.

Third, 22 ammo is the highest selling ammo in the US. it's something crazy like 4 BILLION rounds a year. I think it's going to be tough to sell Federal, or any of the others on telling them about fulfilling a percived need for a new type of bulk ammo.

Didn't mean to tear up your idea, and I know my arguments are a bit weak, but I'm trying to type this up between support calls. :)

I do look forward to other posts about this though.

The Bushmaster
August 30, 2005, 12:04 AM
At the Ed Mcmann Gun show in Ventura I usually get my powder, primers and other acendry items including .22 ammunition by the brick (500 rounds package in 50 round boxes...What is the 10 boxes to a brick?). I have a choice of subsonic, standard and high velocity. I will never buy loose bulk .22's. The 500 cost me around $12.00 and well worth it (cheap). These are Winchester .22 LR HV in the silver box... Sorry.... :scrutiny:

Rob62
August 30, 2005, 08:13 AM
The Bushmaster - Are you saying that you can get Sub Sonic ammo regularly at $12 per brick of 500?? (If I could, then I would probably be sidetracked from my Sub Sonic Bulk Pack quest.)

If so that is an incredible price IMO. I have never seen Sub Sonics this inexpensive unless there was some incredible sale or they were incorectly marked.

The least that I can find Sub Sonic / Standard Vel ammo around here is about $18 per brick - and that's at gun shows.

I've seen Midway sell Standrd Velocity ammo at between $16-17 per brick but then you have to add shipping.

Most of the good folks over at rimfirecentral.com gave me a real beating about this issue. They were not as supportive as I'd hoped. But I still believe there is a need for this product in the shooting community - if for no other reason that NO ONE makes bulk pack sub sonics. Whoever produces this item would initially have 100% market share.

If you'd like to see bulk pack sub sonics out there please get in touch with Federal and let them know. An e mail just takes a few minutes. It doesn't have to be long or eloquent. Just let them know you'd like to see them produce and sell it.

Regards,
Rob

The Bushmaster
August 30, 2005, 10:29 PM
$12.00...Yup, that's right...Remington bulk packs are around $8.50 a loose bullet pack of 500. This is the Ed McMann Gun, coin and indian jewlery show that seems to parade up and down the west coast. It hits Ventura about every other month, which is about right for me to restock...

Rob62
August 31, 2005, 08:30 AM
Bushmaster - I am truly jealous.

There is nowhere here where $12 bricks of sub sonics can be found.

Rob

entropy
August 31, 2005, 02:14 PM
Fleet Farm has bricks of Remington SubSonic on sale this week for $8.80. I've never been fond of them myself, however. I pick up bricks of Super Colibris at gun shows occasionally, but they are more expensive.

sumpnz
August 31, 2005, 02:35 PM
All I ever shoot in my .22 is the Federal bulk packs (36gr high velocity copper-plated HP) from Wal-Mart. Never had any problems with failures, and it's accurate enough for my needs.

Luchtaine
August 31, 2005, 02:43 PM
I just take the CCI and Remmington standard stuff. last vrick of remmington had about one misfire per box, CCI had none go figure. Either way they both worked in my 22a.

Rob62
August 31, 2005, 03:37 PM
entropy,

$8.80 per brick is an unheard of price around here for Remington Sub Sonics. :what: If I lived near a Farm Fleet (Mills Farm Fleet ?!) I'd pick up a few bricks myself.

At that price I highly recommend stocking up. Specially if your gun likes the ammo.

I'd ask you to pick me up some but shipping would put it near what I pay locally.

Regards,

Rob

entropy
August 31, 2005, 08:37 PM
Yup. Mills Fleet Farm. They are a regional chain in the Upper midwest, (MN, WI, MI, IA, SD and ND) that has a very large outdoor sports section. They often beat Wal-Mart on shotgun shells and .22's, and rifle ammo in the fall. the best part is they sell milsurp, and the prices OTD are not bad. I bought my first Mosin, an M38, there for $80 OTD. I then bought a pristine 1930 Tula M91/30 there for $90 OTD, and the counter guys were nice enough to let me look at many before choosing it. Also bought a Turkish Mauser there, and have been eyeing the No4MkI's they have. :D The CCI Blazer .22's were $7.39 last week, I did pick up another brick of them. My 9 year old nephew did like the Remington SubSonics for his single shot, but my 11 year old likes either Velocitors or Colibris (one end of the scale or the other! ;) )

jefnvk
August 31, 2005, 09:25 PM
Oh man, how I wish Tractor Supply hadn't bought out our Fleet Farms :(

I can get PMC Moderators at teh local gunshop for $16/brick. My HV stuff is $12/brick, so it ain't that much more to me. The loose stuff is only plinking fodder, if I can get it under $9/box.

Rob62
September 3, 2005, 11:39 AM
btt

jmorris
October 10, 2005, 04:30 PM
A friend of mine and I spent quite a while testing out many different brands and types of .22lr ammunition, from Aguili to Zipper (PMC) 38 in all. One that really stood out, as a real bargain, was Winchester dynapoint sold in bulk at Wall Mart ($7.98 550 at the time) it was very close, in accuracy, to ammunition costing over $14 for 50 rounds. Out of a prewar Walther with 24” barrel they came out subsonic but were super sonic out of the shorter barrels like the 10/22.

garrett1955
October 10, 2005, 04:41 PM
a few weeks ago i picked up the 8.50 dollar box of remington from fleet. the stuff shot great, accurate, mostly reliable and didnt jam to much. they jamed like 3 times out of 500 and shot great groups. im not complaining.

Vern Humphrey
October 10, 2005, 04:51 PM
I shoot a lot of Winchester hollow points in my Kimber M82 -- and have probably killed a boxcar load of squirrels with them.

There are basically three reasons for using Standard Velocity ("sub-sonic") ammo:

1. For serious target shooting.
2. For older guns not designed for high velocity ammo.
3. For use in suppressors.

You don't get serious target accuracy in bulk pack, and I doubt if there are enough people with the other two reasons to support mass manufacture of standard velocity ammo.

trickyasafox
October 10, 2005, 07:39 PM
i use whatever bulk pack is on sale, save for the 22a smith which really hates federal. other then that the rugers chew everything up.

Vern Humphrey
October 10, 2005, 07:43 PM
My Colt Servoice Ace Conversion Kit will not feed Winchester hollow points -- so I pick up a carton of Federals or Remingtons to feed it. For the rest, I like the Winchester as a squirrel round.

jefnvk
October 10, 2005, 09:41 PM
3. For use in suppressors.

Or, because with the subsonics, I don't need a silencer.

My air gun is louder than my CZ with Moderators. Meaning, when I hunt, it is much easier on my unprotected ears.

Randy in Arizona
October 11, 2005, 02:31 AM
At the Ed Mcmann Gun show Is the actual vendor the Miwall Corporation?

I have bought 7.62X39 & 44 Mag ammo from them, now I guess I better check out their prices on 22 ammo too! :what:

farscott
October 11, 2005, 07:52 AM
Try Winchester Dyna-Points bulk packs. It is standard velocity, and Wal-Mart sells bricks of it for about $11.00. I use it in my S&W M41 and my suppressed Rugers.

DMK
October 11, 2005, 11:32 PM
I bought a case of this stuff a few months back. Pretty accurate, subsonic and right about the same price as the bulk pack stuff at my local Wallyworld...

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of__22lr.html

AG22HP Aguila .22lr Subsonic Hollow Point


Item# AG22HP
Brand New, Aguila Commercial! 38grn Lead Hollow Point, 873fps. Packaged 50rds/box, 500rds/brick, 10 Bricks to a 5,000rds/case.

500rd Brick: $12.95ea

- (9 or fewer) $12.95
- (10 or more) $11.95

pauli
October 12, 2005, 07:51 AM
clackCLICK. clackCLICK. clackCLICK. i'll stick to supersonic, thanks :)

(besides, there ain't no way subsonic's gonna cycle my p22. federal is anemic enough as is...)

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