Lessons learned from recent NO bug-outs

[Preacherman]

I've had over 30 people staying with me since Sunday, evacuating from New Orleans and points south in anticipation of Hurricane Katrina. Only two families were my friends: they told other friends of theirs that they knew a place where they could hole up, and so a whole bunch arrived here! I didn't mind, because there were six RV's and travel trailers, so we had enough accommodation. However, I've had the opportunity to see what worked - and what didn't - in their evacuation plans and bug-out kits, and I thought a few "lessons learned" might be appropriate for the S&T forum.

1. Have a bug-out kit ready at all times. Many of these folks packed at the last minute, grabbing whatever they thought they'd need. Needless to say, they forgot some important things (prescription medications, important documents, baby formula, diapers, etc.). Some of these things (e.g. prescriptions) obviously can't be stocked up against possible emergency need, but you can at least have a list in your bug-out kit of what to grab at the last minute before you leave!

2. Renew supplies in your bug-out kit on a regular basis. Batteries lose their charge. Foods have an expiry date. So do common medications. Clothes can get moldy or dirty unless properly stored. All of these problems were found with the folks who kept backup or bug-out supplies on hand, and caused difficulties for them.

3. Plan on needing a LOT more supplies than you think. I found myself with over 30 people on hand, many of whom were not well supplied: and the stores were swamped with literally thousands of refugees, buying up everything in sight. I had enough supplies to keep myself going for 30 days. Guess what? Those supplies ended up keeping 30-odd people going for two days. I now know that I must plan on providing for not just myself, but others in need. I could have been selfish and said "No, these are mine" - but what good would that do in a real disaster? Someone would just try to take them, and then we'd have all the resulting unpleasantness. Far better to have extra supplies to share with others, whilst keeping your own core reserve intact (and, preferably, hidden from prying eyes!).

4. In a real emergency, forget about last-minute purchases. As I said earlier, the stores were swamped by thousands of refugees, as well as locals buying up last-minute supplies. If I hadn't had my emergency supplies already in store, I would never have been able to buy them at the last minute. If I'd had to hit the road, the situation would have been even worse, as I'd be part of a stream of thousands of refugees, most of whom would be buying (or stealing) what they needed before I got to the store.

5. Make sure your vehicle will carry your essential supplies. Some of the folks who arrived at my place had tried to load up their cars with a humongous amount of stuff, only to find that they didn't have space for themselves! Pets are a particular problem here, as they have to have air and light, and can't be crammed into odd corners. If you have to carry a lot of supplies and a number of people, invest in a small luggage trailer or something similar (or a small travel trailer with space for your goodies) - it'll pay dividends if the S really does HTF.

6. A big bug-out vehicle can be a handicap. Some of the folks arrived here with big pick-ups or SUV's, towing equally large travel trailers. Guess what? - on some evacuation routes, these huge combinations could not navigate corners very well, and/or were so difficult to turn that they ran into things (including other vehicles, which were NOT about to make way in the stress of an evacuation!). This led to hard feelings, harsh words, and at least one fist-fight. It's not a bad idea to have smaller, more manoeverable vehicles, and a smaller travel trailer, so that one can "squeeze through" in a tight traffic situation. Another point: a big SUV or pickup burns a lot of fuel. This is bad news when there's no fuel available! (See point 10 below.)

7. Make sure you have a bug-out place handy. I was fortunate in having enough ground (about 1.8 acres) to provide parking for all these RV's and trailers, and to accommodate 11 small children in my living-room so that the adults could get some sleep on Sunday night, after many hours on the road in very heavy, slow-moving traffic. However, if I hadn't had space, I would have unhesitatingly told the extra families to find somewhere else - and there wasn't anywhere else here, that night. Even shops like Wal-Mart and K-Mart had trailers and RV's backed up in their parking lots (which annoyed the heck out of shoppers trying to make last-minute purchases). Even on my property, I had no trailer sewage connections, so I had to tell the occupants that if they used their onboard toilets and showers, they had to drive their RV's and trailers somewhere else to empty their waste tanks. If they hadn't left this morning, they would have joined long, long lines to do this at local trailer parks (some of which were so overloaded by visiting trailers and RV's that they refused to allow passers-by to use their dumping facilities).

8. Provide entertainment for younger children. Some of these families had young children (ranging from 3 months to 11 years). They had DVD's, video games, etc. - but no power available in their trailers to show them! They had no coloring books, toys, etc. to keep the kids occupied. This was a bad mistake.

9. Pack essentials first, then luxuries. Many of these folks had packed mattresses off beds, comforters, cushions, bathrobes, etc. As a result, their vehicles were grossly overloaded, but often lacked real essentials like candles, non-perishable foods, etc. One family (both parents are gourmet cooks) packed eighteen (yes, EIGHTEEN!!!) special pots and pans, which they were going to use on a two-burner camp stove... They were horrified by my suggestion that under the circumstances, a nested stainless-steel camping cookware set would be rather more practical. "What? :eek: No omelette pan?" Sheesh...

10. Don't plan on fuel being available en route. A number of my visitors had real problems finding gas to fill up on the road. With thousands of vehicles jammed nose-to-tail on four lanes of interstate, an awful lot of vehicles needed gas. By the time you got to a gas station, you were highly likely to find it sold out - or charging exorbitant prices, because the owners knew you didn't have any choice but to pay what they asked. :fire: Much better to leave with a full tank of gas, and enough in spare containers to fill up on the road, if you have to, in order to reach your destination.

11. Have enough money with you for at least two weeks. Many of those who arrived here had very little in cash, relying on check-books and credit cards to fund their purchases. Guess what? Their small banks down in South Louisiana were all off-line, and their balances, credit authorizations, etc. could not be checked - so many shops refused to accept their checks, and insisted on electronic verification before accepting their credit cards. Local banks also refused (initially) to cash checks for them, since they couldn't check the status of their accounts on-line. Eventually (and very grudgingly) local banks began allowing them to cash checks for not more than $50-$100, depending on the bank. Fortunately, I have a reasonable amount of cash available at all times, so I was able to help some of them. I'm now going to increase my cash on hand, I think... Another thing - don't bring only large bills. Many gas stations, convenience stores, etc. won't accept anything larger than a $20 bill. Some of my guests had plenty of $100 bills, but couldn't buy anything.

12. Don't be sure that a disaster will be short-term. My friends have left now, heading south to Baton Rouge. They want to be closer to home for whenever they're allowed to return. Unfortunately for them, the Governor has just announced the mandatory, complete evacuation of New Orleans, and there's no word on when they will be allowed back. It will certainly be several weeks, and it might be several months. During that period, what they have with them - essential documents, clothing, etc. - is all they have. They'll have to find new doctors to renew prescriptions; find a place to live (a FEMA trailer if they're lucky - thousands of families will be lining up for these trailers); some way to earn a living (their jobs are gone with New Orleans, and I don't see their employers paying them for not working when the employers aren't making money either); and so on.

13. Don't rely on government-run shelters if at all possible. Your weapons WILL be confiscated (yes, including pocket-knives, kitchen knives, and Leatherman-type tools); you will be crowded into close proximity with anyone and everyone (including some nice folks, but also including drug addicts, released convicts, gang types, and so on); you will be under the authority of the people running the shelter, who WILL call on law enforcement and military personnel to keep order (including stopping you leaving if you want to); and so on. Much, much better to have a place to go to, a plan to get there, and the supplies you need to do so on your own.

14. Warn your friends not to bring others with them!!! I had told two friends to bring themselves and their families to my home. They, unknown to me, told half-a-dozen other families to come too - "He's a good guy, I'm sure he won't mind!" Well, I did mind... but since the circumstances weren't personally dangerous, I allowed them all to hang around. However, if things had been worse, I would have been very nasty indeed to their friends (and even nastier to them, for inviting others without clearing it with me first!). If you are a place of refuge for your friends, make sure they know that this applies to them ONLY, not their other friends. Similarly, if you have someone willing to offer you refuge, don't presume on his/her hospitality by arriving with others unforewarned.

I'm sure I'll think of a few things to add to this list, but here it is for now. Anyone like to add anything?

[goon]

Thank you.
Your secondhand experience is much more educational than anything short of actually surviving it, which is not something that I look forward to.

God help the people who were stranded or had their homes obliterated by this storm.

[CAnnoneer]

A nice writeup!

I would only add:

Don't live in a hurricane region.

If you do, build your house to last. I'd go with reinforced concrete in pyramidal recessing shapes. Have windows with slanted recessing panes and have matching steel plates to button down. Your home is your castle. If the city hall or neighbors protest on grounds of aesthetics, decorate the concrete with pastoral mosaics of colorfully painted tiles and plant some greenery. "Mayan temple" is the ideal style. :)

Those who count on insurance to rebuild their flimsy wooden houses may be sorely disappointed, as the companies go bankrupt by an overwhelming number of simultaneous claims. The feds may bail them out, but I would not hold my breath. :(

A house built to specs would also protect you and your property against looters, as they are by large lazy cowards and thus would rather hit softer targets. ;)

[Preacherman]

CAnnoneer, if you'd built just such a house in New Orleans, you'd still be SOL about now - the Governor has ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city, whether residents like it or not, and will use the National Guard to enforce it. You'd still have no power, no water, and be up to your armpits (at least) in floating sewage. So, I think I'll pass on building Fortress Preacherman, and invest in a small travel trailer instead! :D

[Hardware]

A house built to specs under 20 feet of water might not be in a desirable location.

Don't live in a city lower than sea level with an adjacent, higher lake. In this case it's not elevation and windage but just elevation, elevation, elevation.

[Preacherman]

A couple more points that come to mind:

15. Have account numbers, contact addresses and telephone numbers for all important persons and institutions. My friends will now have to get new postal addresses, and will have to notify others of this: their doctors, insurance companies (medical, personal, vehicle and property), bank(s), credit card issuer(s), utility supplier(s), telephone supplier(s), etc. Basically, anyone who sends you bills, or to whom you owe money, or who might owe you money. None of my friends brought all this information with them. Now, when they need to change postal addresses for correspondence, insurance claims, etc., how can they do this when they don't know their account numbers, what number to call, who and where to write, etc.?

16. Have portable weapons and ammo ready to hand. Only two of my friends were armed, and one of them had only a handgun. The other had a handgun for himself, another for his wife, a shotgun, and an evil black rifle - MUCH better! I was asked by some of the other families, who'd seen TV reports of looting back in New Orleans, to lend them firearms. I refused, as they'd never handled guns before, and thus would have been more of a danger to themselves and other innocent persons than to looters. If they'd stayed a couple of days, so that I could teach them the basics, that would have been different: but they wouldn't, so I didn't. Another thing - you don't have to take your entire arsenal along. Firearms for personal defence come first, then firearms for life support through hunting (and don't forget the skinning knife!). A fishing outfit might not be a bad idea either (you can shoot bait! :D ). Other than that, leave the rest of your guns in the safe (you do have a gun safe, securely bolted to the floor, don't you?), and the bulk ammo supplies too. Bring enough ammo to keep you secure, but no more. If you really need bulk supplies of guns and ammo, they should be waiting for you at your bug-out location, not occupying space (and taking up a heck of a lot of weight!) in your vehicle. (For those bugging out in my direction, ammo supply will NOT be a problem... :D )

I'm sure there are more points to come. How about others contributing to this list?

[rwc]

My wife and I talked through this over dinner. I thought of all the things THR-ers think about and Preacherman identified. My wife's first thoughts went to the family photo albums and her classic bass. All eight feet of it... My conclusion - talk to your family and figure out what their priorities are. Have a realistic expectation about what will and won't go.

We have a Subaru wagon, rack and "rocket box" but that would get filled pretty quickly when you start adding in necessities for an 8 mo. old, a dog, and two adults. I think the small trailer is a great idea. You can priority pack so that the trailer has your "second tier" of goods, extra gas, etc. and can be ditched if necessary. When I pointed out to my wife that the only way we move her bass now (for her classic and jazz performances) is with one seat down and that between the bass, our baby's car seat, us and the dog there wasn't much room for necessities. I'm willing to triple bag the bass in poly. (saved from mattress purchases, etc.) and put it on the roof though. It's got to be love...

An idea we had was to "team up" with a few other families who might also consider leaving. It occured to us that we could call a few friends, say we are bugging out and ask if they want to go with us. We would want a team of at least three couples. This gives us a much better work force given almost all of our friends have kids.

Before blast off we figure we could take a day where we all ganged up and went from house to house moving everything easily mobile out of basements and up to the highest part of the house where it could be covered with a tarp and weighted down. This will provide a bit better protection for furniture and other easily water damaged goods in the event the windows blow out, the roof comes off, or the flood waters rise. Then turn off the gas, main power, and water lines. Nail old doors and spare plywood over lower floor windows and doors. Meanwhile we can also provide some positive "peer pressure" to make sure that folks pack warm clothes, non-perishable foods, and leave the 18 pots and pans behind.

Preacherman - As a "foodie" I have to ask - was it Calphalon or All Clad? ;)

Having a team also lets you divy up tasks. Example, one person can pool all the gas cans to go wait in line, one or two take care of all the kids, etc.

And of course, there is always safety in numbers. Time to pick the team...

[Trebor]

My wife and I talked about this tonight. Here is what we decided:

Don't live in a Hurricane zone.

Don't live in a known earthquake zone (that one's harder since the New Madrid fault is in the midwest. Quake's can happen even if you aren't in California)

Don't live on a known flood plain.

Don't live below sea level if you are near the ocean.

Don't live where there is a known risk of mudslides or wildfires.

In other words, to avoid having to evacuate at the last minute, move away from those dangerous areas ahead of time.

Yes, you can still be the victim of some other disaster, but just by avoiding known danger zones you can eliminate many of the risks. You still want to prepare for the unexpected, but you'll have less chance of actually needing to implement your disaster plan.

[P95Carry]

Peter - outstanding evaluation of what really matters. I really think that right now at least - ''sticky'' this - there are way too many folks who do not place enough importance on these things.

I am again appalled at what I am seeing on the news - I thought the situation was black earlier today - it was not - it was then shades of gray.

Now I begin to see real black - and it is appalling. :(

[CAnnoneer]

Hehehehe, Fortress CAnnoneer would not have any windows or openings below 12 feet from the ground. We are also talking two-feet thick reinforced concrete walls and floors - they are waterproof. That's why it is a fortress. The gate would be at the top of a staircase. Like I said, Mayan style. :evil:

What would the NatGuard do? Come knock on my gate and see the sign:

"Gone on vacation till the end of Katrina. Beware the land mines and robotic defense turrets!"

Are they going to knock down my door to check the suspicion that I am in? Why would they bother when there are so many other houses to evacuate? Methinks they will choose to convince themselves there is nobody home. ;)

If you have your own generator and plenty of fuel, power is not an issue. Clean water supplies and distillation equipment are quite inexpensive and a reasonable component to Fortress CAnnoneer.

:evil:

[SIGarmed]

Thanks for this. It's a great write up. Now I'm off to get my own disaster plan in gear.

This should be a sticky.

[YammyMonkey]

Good thread, made me start something I've been meaning to do for a few years now, make a list of Bug-Out stuff. Once I've given it the once-over I'll submit it so others can use it as a template. Keep in mind it'll be based on 1 male, 1 female adults, 1 newborn and 5 ferrets so you may need to adjust, but it would be a start.

Have a place to go. Even if it's your mom's third cousin, twice removed, three times remarried and once in prison it beats the other alternative; just look at the Superdome for an example. Even if you run away from the area and end up pitching a tent for a while, it'll beat the Superdome or anything similar. The first major city you come to may be the obvious choice, but it's that for a reason; EVERYBODY is going to be hanging there, keep going. So what if it takes you an extra day to drive back home? If you can find food and lodging instead of living in a YMCA gym it'll be worth it.

As stated earlier, money money money. Small bills, lots of them. When you get to a part of the country where things are normal you'll likely run into the same issues Preacherman's visitors (amd imposers) did- banks and comms down to certain areas.

Couple other things:

Medical supplies you know how to use. If you don't know how to use a C-collar there's no need to get one, same goes for the uber-giant first aid kits you see in some outdoor catalogs. Some things can be made much worse by a well intentioned medical hack job. Don't forget the antiseptic, I would go with rubbing alcohol instead of peroxide, more uses.

Basic sanitary items. Woman products for the wife/girlfriend/daughter/mom. Those pads also make outstanding wound dressings. A face washing and tooth brushing goes a long way when you're dirty and otherwise very foul. Baby wipes are a good way to not use up precious water.

Basic tools. If something breaks, you need a way to fix it. No need for the whole $30,000 Snap-On collection, but a simple assortment of screwdrivers, wrenches, sockets, etc. will go a long way if you need them. Duct Tape, Duct Tape, Duct Tape. It can go bad, so keep some fresh rolls on hand. Something to fix flat tires, either one of those repair kits or a few cans of Fix-A-Flat. Your tire guy may curse you when you go in to get new rubber, but most of these disasters are going to leave a lot of building materials strewn all over. You will pick up nails, glass, etc. in your tires upon your return, or possibly while evac'ing and it's no fun driving on your rims.

Pleasure food. Some trail mix, dried fruit or similar can have a similar effect as the brushing teeth and washing face. The survival rations can get pretty demoralizing after a while.

If you need to carry extra gas inside your vehicle, roll the windows down or die. Simple, but oft forgotten I'm sure.

[hso]

WRT important documents - an electronic copy from scanned documents is not acceptable under normal circumstances, but in a general disaster if you have birth certificates, SS cards, prescriptions, bank and credit, titles/deeds, etc saved to disc or flash you have a very compact "history" that could go a long way towards getting the meds you've run out of, establishing residence, ownership, and insurance, and generally jump starting part of the recovery process. Sure there's no power where you are, but there will be where you'll end up.

Like the commercial says, "Have a plan". That includes evacuation routes that may be open when much of everything else is packed.

Carry some basic "off road" gear. Rope, cross-arm straps and heavy 'beaners will allow you to set a "z-drag" to move obsticles. You'd be amazed with what you can move if all you have to move it is "enough". A small chain saw and a spair chain blade can cut a tree in half so that you can pull the parts far enough apart to squeeze through. A "real" jack will allow you to get that spare in place quickly after road debris wrecked your tire. Tire patch kit if there's anything recoverable on the tire you pulled.

[Mnemesyne]

Don't live in a known earthquake zone (that one's harder since the New Madrid fault is in the midwest. Quake's can happen even if you aren't in California)


Case in point...the 1986 earthquake in NE Ohio of all places.......



On a side note...everyone else is leaving the NO area and the husbands work sent him and some others down there to help.....His biggest concern was not being armed....So if you pray, please say a prayer for him and all the other relief workers down there....looks like they're gonna need all the help they can get....

[Preacherman]

Thanks for all the comments. Come on, folks, I'm sure that you have many more suggestions - how about posting them?

Rwc, some great ideas there. Very important point: if you're going in a convoy of three vehicles (or more), you'll need some means of inter-vehicle communication - and the cellphone towers go out very quickly! Might be a good idea to invest in a few handheld two-way radios, such as are sold for use by hunters. I'd suggest the 5-mile range sets, rather than the cheaper 2-mile range sets, so that if your vehicles are separated by traffic or accident, you can still talk to one another to arrange a rendezvous further down the road.

I think I'll start another thread for the actual contents of a "bug-out kit" - so please post there as well.

Chris, SIGarmed, this isn't my forum, so I won't make this a "sticky". If Jeff wants to do so, it's his prerogative.

[Mnemesyne]

A flint and steel kit for making fires....Can come in quite handy in those situations where matches or lighters are not present....I didn't think it'd actually work till the husband started our campfire with one of these kits one night at Zaleski :rolleyes: That and you can replace the items with common every day things (natural jute rope, 100% cotton balls)

Another thing that sometimes is overlooked is a radio with either solar power or a hand crank (or both) for those times when batteries just can't be obtained easily....

[Texian Pistolero]

Great posts!

I would just add the following:

Don't forget to include "luxuries", like coffee, tea, and booze. If you smoke, your smokes are essential medications.

Try to think about what skills you can offer someone who kindly gives you refuge. Try to give something back.

Pack a Bible.

[jpthegeek]

Forgive the randomness:

I would echo the steel and flint. Can also get one of those magnesium firestarter bars from Wally World or a camping outfit. I have one of these in just about every crevice of the two vehicles and the house.

Also, good knives. Everyone who is capable should have a good one. Don't forget something to keep it sharp!

The first on my list however, would be excellent boots, trail runners or some type of ruggedized footwear. I'm sure the vehicle thing will owrk for a while, but in the end you will probably be humping along on foot.

Even if you don't hike or work in places that you need these, they can be had for very little cash, although sometimes you pay for what you get.

I tend to keep my major bugout gear packed in my large internal fram backpack with a smaller box and bag with ammo, cleaning/sharpening implements. I also keep another backpack in my truck with a smaller version of what is at home.

Although now I think my strategy needs to be revamped to include definite offsite plans with a cache or two up on the Ga mountains.

Is it time to buy a small cabin and start stashing there?

Do I need to start standardizing the weapons? No more new purchases? Same platform and caliber?

Should I be allotting a percentage of the bi-weekly corporate wage to food stocks and ammo?

This Katrina thing has got me thinking and to tell you the truth a bit worried. The local news agencies are just now starting to talk about gas shortages.

Anyway, random Bug Out thoughts...

[Byron Quick]

Some of these things (e.g. prescriptions) obviously can't be stocked up against possible emergency need, but you can at least have a list in your bug-out kit of what to grab at the last minute before you leave!

Peter,

Some insurance companies will pay for three months of medications at one time. Especially if the medications are purchased from a discount pharmacy. They require a prescription for a three month supply, of course.

If you do get a three month supply for emergencies and then regularly get one month supplies...you rotate the oldest out when you put in the newest.

This is of supreme importance to many people. Do you take a medicine that you are absolutely dependent on? Heart, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc?

Facing a disaster of the scale of New Orleans; you mignt not be able to put all the pieces for a new prescriptions together in time. Let's see: I've got to find a doctor, find a doctor who will take my insurance (does my employer still exist to pay the premiums?), maybe find money for doctor and pharmacy, find a pharmacy that's open, find a pharmacy that has my medications, find a pharmacy that accepts my insurance (if any), etc.

All the food, weapons, and emergency supplies in the world are not going to do too much good if you die from a lack of insulin six weeks out.

[buzz_knox]

What I find most fascinating is that in previous bug out bag threads, people were saying that we were paranoid, and that a sufficiently large breakdown of society and gov't to necessitate the level of preparation we are discussing would not occur.

We are watching it happen, in real-time.

[foghornl]

GI ammo cans are great for storing stuff other than ammo...just make sure those cans are properly marked.

Preacherman, I hope The Lord grants you an extra blessing for taking in those folks.

On the other side, if I had arranged to make an emergency temporary stay with someone, [such as you], I would never even think of showing up with uninvited and un-previously cleared 'extras'. It is just plain rude to think that your host will want you and Cousin Jim Bob, Jim Bob's neighbor from 2 doors down, plus Jim Bosb & neighbors pets, and all the rug rats that emit 5 or 6 primal screams per minute, 24/7/365.

[LawDog]

Have training, folks. All the tech and gadgets in the world won't do you much good if you don't have a clue how to use them to full effect.

Take a First Responder or EMT course so that you can use the medi-kit to it's full advantage. Even better, take a Wilderness EMT course.

Get topo maps of your area and study them before you need to. Learn how to read a topo map and teach everyone in your family the same skill.

LawDog

[Dave Markowitz]

I haven't seen emergency comms mentioned yet so here's my $0.02...

Charged cell phones along with car chargers, or your regular wall charger + a power inverter for the car. IF you are in an area where they work, a cell phone can let you call relatives/friends outside the danger area.

FRS/GMRS radios. FRS doesn't require a license, while GMRS does (although it's just a fee, no test required, and the license covers your immediate family). Good for short range commo, e.g., between vehicles in a bug out situation. GMRS gives you somewhat longer range, though both require line of sight. FRS/GMRS radios can be picked up cheap at any of the big box stores, from Home Depot to WalMart, to Radio Shack. If you keep an eye out you may be able to find them DIRT CHEAP. E.g., I got a pair of Midland FRS/GMRS last year from MidwayUSA for the whopping sum of $6 + S&H.

CB radio. No license required. These are still useful, although you do hear a lot of garbage, much of which is not suitable for sensitive ears. I have a portable in my truck with an external magnet-mount whip antenna. It's great for listening to truckers for real-time traffic reports and has kept me out of several jams. Also good for short-range commo. Most CBs are AM, but Single Side Band CBs will give you longer range, although you'll only be able to talk to other SSB CB users.

Ham (Amateur) radio. Here's where it gets good, IMO. I got my ticket last month. Although you need a license, the entry-level Technician class license isn't hard to get, and the info you learn while studying for the exam can be useful. You can get a good handheld (AKA "handie talkie" or "HT") for as little as $100 which will allow you to transmit and receive on the 2M FM band. These are good for commo up to several miles if you have line of sight. I can hit a 2M repeater ~10 miles away from inside my house with my Yaesu VX-5RS. Once I get my General ticket I'll be able to use the HF bands and transmit much longer distances without relying on a repeater.

Hams are currently in action down in the area affected by Katrina. Among other things, they've been able to direct rescue personnel to people stranded by floodwaters.

I don't want to encourage unlicensed use, but in an emergency FCC rules about unlicensed transmission go out the window. You're allowed to use any means of communication to secure aid to preserve human life or property against immediate threats. IMO, the most important part about getting one's ham license is getting familiar with proper operating procedures, which are critical when TSHTF.

Satellite phone is another option, although I have little knowledge of it.

A NOAA weather radio should be in your disaster kit, if one of your other radios doesn't also pick up these channels. In my case, my Midland CB already does, so I don't have a separate unit.

A portable AM/FM radio for listening to local news reports. If it picks up shortwave or the NOAA weather channels, it'll be more versatile. Some also allow you to listen to the audio portion of TV broadcasts. I'm currently shopping for a multi-band AM/FM/SW radio so if anyone has recommendations, I'm all ears.

Don't forget plenty of batteries, chargers, appropriate AC adapters, and a power inverter so you can plug them into the cigarrette lighter in your vehicle.

73,

Dave, KB3MNK

[Mongo the Mutterer]

What a great thread -- Preacherman God Bless you for helping the refugees.

Deadeye Deb (my fiancee) and I were discussing a SHTF kit last night. The first thing she said was COFFEE, and a coffee pot to put on a grill or fire.

Those of us with addictions have to feed them. :D

[Len]

*Post moved to Preacherman's other thread*

[alpineman]

It's funny - every time I start to read one of these "bug-out-bag" threads, I think, "aw, I've read all this before" .... And then I find something else I've left out.

Great tips, Preacherman - thanks.

[CAS700850]

I think one key benefit, if you can even think of benmefits as you watch this happen, is that it has made us all take stock of our own abilities to survive, and take action where necessary.

Personally, after watching this, I've reahed a couple of conclusions about my own needs.

FRS radios. Our plan is to run in both vehicles if necessary. Can't count on the cell phones for communication. FRS radios are inexpensive, small sized, and work so long as we have batteries. And we always have batteries, since we have kids with electronic toys.

Ammo. I need more. Nothing fancy. Just a few hundred rounds of quality ammo to have stored and forget about until needed. Went shooting last weekend, and I've only got enough 9mm to fill the magazines.

Gas cans. Got one. Need more. Also, big cans for non-potable water. Hate to fill a radiator after a hose leak with my bottled drinking water.

Travel grill. Sure, a backpacking stove would be more desirable size-wise, but a traveling gas grill would do better if we cannot build a campfire, like in a parking lot along the way. A few bottles of gas, and I'd be set.

Lightsticks. Need to get some. No batteries needed. No flames to worry about around the kids.

Maps. Good road atlas to help find alternate routes as necessary.

Let's keep this going. Great to bounce ideas off each other.

[owen]

Don't forget a boyscout fieldbook. Everything you ever needed to know to stay alive in the woods.

[armoredman]

Potable water may be in very short supply, and trying to travel with a 500 gal tank wont work too well - filtration systems may be handy.

[sturmruger]

I think it might be a good idea to run an occasional load up drill. That way families could practice getting everything loaded up and out the door. Then if they ever need to do it for real things should go much smoother.

I really feel for people that have no where to go. It sounds like their best bet would be to drive North to a larger city and look for a new job and an apartement. Putting your life on hold and waiting for things to get better in NO is not going to be a very good decision financially.

[tuna]

Awesome - though I don't live below sea level, I have a mild evacuation bag packed for "what ifs" and stock it a little better for snow season. Good info.

[Dirty Bob]

I prefer LED flashlights. I have a Streamlight TL-2 for "tactical" uses, as well as a UK 4AA LED (excellent, inexpensive, tough light -- under $25 from Brightguy.com) for general utility. These have made great gifts for family members.

I also use an Inova X-1 as a personal utility light. The spot (with little sidespill) is good for moving around the house at night without disturbing others. My old CMG Utility Tasklight is also useful.

The UK, CMG and Inova all use AAs. I need to find out if Lithium AAs can be used in any of them, to take advantage of the 10-year shelf life.

Streamlight TL-2 LED "tactical" light
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=28315

UL 4AA eLED utility light (bottom), shown with a Mini MagLite
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=28313

Inova X-1 utility spotlight
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=28314

Regards,
Dirty Bob

[MikeIsaj]

One of the best threads I've ever read, anywhere! Thank you Preacherman.

Don't wait too long to bug out!I spent a few years on the NC coast and had to react to a few storms. Most people wait until they are certain they need to leave, or until they are told to leave. That's too late, you leave when the need is likely, not certain. Politicians are not going to risk making a decision until they are certain. By the time the Mayor of New Orleans gave the order, it was way too late.

If you live in a hurricane area, you should know a thing or two about hurricanes. Knowing how hurricanes work allows you to make decisions on your own. Last year I was in Cape Hatteras the week Charlie came through. One day the Park Ranger came through handing out info about closing the campgrounds. I said that I would be gone or close to it by the time they decided to close. We all got a chuckle two days later when they came around to announce the closing of the campground. I was just about ready to pull out. I avoided the gridlock leaving the island because it was all behind me.

[garrettwc]

Ham (Amateur) radio. Here's where it gets good, IMO. I got my ticket last month. Although you need a license, the entry-level Technician class license isn't hard to get, and the info you learn while studying for the exam can be useful. You can get a good handheld (AKA "handie talkie" or "HT") for as little as $100 which will allow you to transmit and receive on the 2M FM band. These are good for commo up to several miles if you have line of sight. I can hit a 2M repeater ~10 miles away from inside my house with my Yaesu VX-5RS. Once I get my General ticket I'll be able to use the HF bands and transmit much longer distances without relying on a repeater.

Dave, PM me please or start a thread at APS. I would like to discuss this further.

Thanks,

[Andrew Rothman]

Just got my Ham radio license as well.

A 2-meter handi-talkie is good for about that 10 miles, and in a disaster, I'd bet the repeaters are knocked out.

On the other hand, a high-wattage rig with a properly mounted directional antenna can go 150+ miles (as I heard last night, when I chatted with a Duluth, MN ham in Minneapolis).

[Polishrifleman]

Just picked up a Barnes and Noble reprint of the US Army Survival Manual for $9. Not a bad item to have in the kit.

[Preacherman]

I've had a day to think further about lessons to be learned from my friends' experience in evacuating New Orleans, and other feedback. Here are some more ideas.

1. Route selection is very, very important. My friends (and their friends) basically looked at the map, found the shortest route to me (I-10 to Baton Rouge and Lafayette, then up I-49 to Alexandria), and followed it slavishly. This was a VERY bad idea, as something over half-a-million other folks had the same route in mind... Some of them took over twelve hours for what is usually a four-hour journey. If they'd used their heads, they would have seen (and heard, from radio reports) that going North up I-55 to Mississippi would have been much faster. There was less traffic on this route, and they could have turned left and hit Natchez, MS, and then cut across LA on Route 84. This would have taken them no more than five or six hours, even with the heavier evacuation traffic. Lesson: think outside the box, and don't assume that the shortest route on the map in terms of distance will also be the shortest route in terms of time.

2. A few thoughts on the social implications of a disaster situation. Feedback from my contacts in the LSP and other agencies is very worrying. They keep harping on the fact that the "underclass" that's doing all the looting is almost exclusively Black and inner-city in composition. The remarks they're reporting include such statements as "I'm ENTITLED to this stuff!", "This is payback time for all Whitey's done to us", and "This is reparations for slavery!". Also, they're blaming the present confused disaster-relief situation on racism: "Fo sho, if Whitey wuz sittin' here in tha Dome waitin' for help, no way would he be waitin' like we is!" No, I'm not making up these comments... they are as reported by my buddies. This worries me very much. If we have such a divide in consciousness among our city residents, then when we hit a SHTF situation, we're likely to be accused of racism, paternalism, oppression, and all sorts of other crimes just because we want to preserve law and order. If we, as individuals and families, provide for our own needs in emergency, and won't share with others (whether they're of another race or not) because we don't have enough to go round, we're likely to be accused of racism rather than pragmatism, and taking things from us can (and probably will) be justified as "Whitey getting his just desserts". I'm absolutely not a racist, but the racial implications of the present situation are of great concern to me. The likes of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the "reparations for slavery" brigade appear to have so polarized inner-city opinion that these folks are (IMHO) no longer capable of rational thought concerning such issues as looting, disaster relief, etc.

3. The above has obvious implications for security. If one has successfully un-assed the danger zone, one will be in an environment filled, to a greater or lesser extent, with other evacuees. How many of them will have provided for their needs? How many of them will rely on obtaining from others the things they need? In the absence of immediate State or relief-agency assistance, how many of them will feel "entitled" to obtain these necessities any way they have to, up to and including looting, murder and mayhem? Large gathering-places for refugees suddenly look rather less desirable... and being on one's own, or in an isolated spot with one's family, also looks less secure. One has to sleep sometime, and while one sleeps, one is vulnerable. Even one's spouse and children might not be enough... there are always going to be vulnerabilities. One can hardly remain consciously in Condition Yellow while bathing children, or making love! A team approach might be a viable solution here - see point 6 below.

4. There seems to be a severe case of "too many chiefs, not enough Indians" in New Orleans at the moment. The mayor has already blown his top about the levee breach: he claims that he had a plan in place to fix it by yesterday evening, but was overruled by Baton Rouge, who sent in others to do something different. This may or may not be true... My LSP buddies tell me that they're getting conflicting assignments and/or requests from different organizations and individuals. One will send out a group to check a particular area for survivors: but when they get there, they find no-one, and later learn that another group has already checked and cleared the area. Unfortunately, in the absence of centralized command and control, the information is not being shared amongst all recovery teams. Also, there's alleged to be conflict between City officials and State functionaries, with both sides claiming to be "running things": and some individuals in the Red Cross, FEMA, and other groups appear to be refusing to take instructions from either side, instead (it's claimed) wanting to run their own shows. This is allegedly producing catastrophic confusion and duplication of effort, and may even be making the loss of life worse, in that some areas in need of rescuers aren't getting them. (I don't know if the same problems are occurring in Mississippi and/or Alabama, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.) All of this is unofficial and off-the-record, but it doesn't surprise me to hear it. Moral of the story: if you want to survive, don't rely on the government or any government agency (or private relief organization, for that matter) to save you. Your ass is in your own hands - don't drop it!

5. Long-term vision appears to be sadly lacking at present. Everyone is focused on the immediate, short-term objective of rescuing survivors. However, there are monumental problems looming, that need immediate attention, but don't seem to be getting it right now. For example: the Port of Louisiana is the fifth-largest in the world, and vital to the economy, but the Coast Guard is saying (on TV) that they won't be able to get it up and running for three to six months, because their primary focus is on search and rescue, and thereafter, disaster relief. Why isn't the Coast Guard pulled off that job now, and put to work right away on something this critical? There are enough Navy, Marine and Air Force units available now to take over rescue missions. Another example: there are over a million refugees from the Greater New Orleans area floating around. They need accommodation and food, sure: but most of them are now unemployed, and won't have any income at all for the next six to twelve months. There aren't nearly enough jobs available in this area to absorb this workforce. What is being done to find work for them, even in states remote from the problem areas? The Government for sure won't provide enough for them in emergency aid to be able to pay their bills. What about mortgages on properties that are now underwater? The occupants both can't and won't pay; the mortage holders will demand payment; and we could end up with massive foreclosures on property that is worthless, leaving a lot of folks neck-deep in debt and without homes (even damaged ones). What is being done to plan for this, and alleviate the problem as much as possible? I would have thought that the State government would have had at least the skeleton of an emergency plan for these sorts of things, and that FEMA would have the same, but this doesn't seem to be the case. Why weren't these things considered in the leisurely days pre-disaster, instead of erupting as immediate and unanswered needs post-disaster?

6. This leads me to consider my own emergency planning. I've planned to cover an evacuation need, and could probably survive with relative ease for between two weeks and one month: but what if I had been caught up in this mess? What would I do about earning a living, paying mortgages, etc.? If I can't rely on the State, I for darn sure had better be able to rely on myself! I certainly need to re-examine my insurance policies, to ensure that if disaster strikes, my mortgage, major loans, etc. will be paid off (or that I will receive enough money to do this myself). I also need to provide for my physical security, and must ensure that I have supplies, skills and knowledge that will be "marketable" in exchange for hard currency in a post-disaster situation. The idea of a "team" of friends with (or to) whom to bug out, survive, etc. is looking better and better. Some of the team could take on the task of keeping a home maintained (even a camp-type facility), looking after kids, providing base security, etc. Others could be foraging for supplies, trading, etc. Still others could be earning a living for the whole team with their skills. In this way, we'd all contribute to our mutual survival and security in the medium to long term. Life might be a lot less comfortable than prior to the disaster, but hey - we'd still have a life! This bears thinking about, and I might just have to start building "team relationships" with nearby THR members!

7. The "bank problem" bears consideration. I was at my bank this morning, depositing checks I'd been given by my visitors in exchange for cash. The teller warned me bluntly that it might be weeks before these checks could be credited to my account, as there was no way to clear them with their issuing banks, which were now under water and/or without communications facilities. He also told me that there had been an endless stream of folks trying to cash checks on South Louisiana banks, without success. He warned me that some of these local banks will almost certainly fail, as they don't have a single branch above water, and the customers and businesses they served are also gone - so checks drawn on them will eventually prove worthless. Even some major regional banks had run their Louisiana "hub" out of New Orleans, and now couldn't access their records. I think it might be a good idea to have a "bug-out bank account" with a national bank, so that funds should be available anywhere they have a branch, rather than keeping all one's money in a single bank (particularly a local one) or credit union. This is, of course, over and above one's "bug-out stash" of ready cash.

8. Finally, helping one's friends is likely to prove expensive. I estimate that I'm out over $1,000 at the moment, partly from having all my supplies consumed, and partly from making cash available to friends who couldn't cash their checks. I may or may not get some of this back in due course. I don't mind it - if I were in a similar fix, I hope I could lean on my friends for help in the same way, after all! - but I hadn't made allowance for it. I shall have to do so in future, as well as planning to contribute to costs incurred by those who offer me hospitality under similar circumstances.

Just some thoughts to ponder. Any more ideas from our members?

[Jeff Timm]

Trebor commented, " Don't live in a Hurricane zone.

Don't live in a known earthquake zone (that one's harder since the New Madrid fault is in the midwest. Quake's can happen even if you aren't in California)

Don't live on a known flood plain.

Don't live below sea level if you are near the ocean.

Don't live where there is a known risk of mudslides or wildfires.

In other words, to avoid having to evacuate at the last minute, move away from those dangerous areas ahead of time."

I had all that, but there are no jobs in Cleveland and I ended up in Florida, hey, at least I live on a hill! 60 feet above sea level.

Geoff
Who posted hurricane info at work, the "Preacherman List" will join it.

[lee n. field]

Don't forget to include "luxuries", like coffee, tea, and booze. If you smoke, your smokes are essential medications.

Barter.

[MikeIsaj]

Preacherman; Thank you again for your insights. I have been watching this mess play out and had the same thoughts that basically the city of New Orleans and the state of Louisianna were woefully unprepared and no longer in control of the crisis. I am sitting high and dry in Pa. and thought maybe I was too far removed and that I was missing something from my perspective.

Unfortunatly I don't think this is done getting bad yet. People are hungry, thirsty, tired and soon will be getting sick and watching their families die. Meanwhile the government they've placed their trust in is unable to do enough, fast enough to save them. I listen to comments these people are making to the news crews and I hear a desperation in their voices that is truely frightening. They feel abandoned, betrayed, scared, desperate and are near panic. It is going to get ugly down there real soon. God be with them all.

[riverdog]

When disaster strikes you do what you gotta do and if that involves taking in refugees (preferably family and close friends) you accept them. If it involves packing your truck and waving goodbye to your home you do it early. Make a plan and when the time comes, execute the plan.

Up until now I thought my plans were maybe a bit over the top, but the cash in my BOB now seems correct and with the price of fuel doing what it's doing, I may add even more cash.

What else do I plan to add:
More food and other consumables so that I'm not competing for stuff to eat on the road or at my destination. I already had camping/hiking stuff including small stoves (Svea 123, Optimus 111B) and fuel, titanium pots & utensils.
Fuel to get there, with that thought I just bought two plastic 5 gal gas cans which will get me another 220 miles down the road and should be enough to get me there and back assuming normal driving. Once you slow down to bumper-bumper stop and go speeds, fuel economy suffers so the extra fuel should be very useful. Even if I don't need it, it's not like fuel is something I won't use eventually.
From what I'm seeing in NOLA, I'll be adding a lot more in the hygiene department, soap, shampoo, toothpaste et al. Stuff to stay clean and maybe a gallon of unscented chlorine bleach and laundry detergent.

Bottom line is don't assume that you'll buy what you forgot when you get there. This is a logistics nightmare and it's much better to have than to be looking.

Those who plan ahead and stockpile needed supplies do not stress the system and make life a lot easier than those who hoard in the hour of need.

[Nimitz]

subscribing...

[sumpnz]

Preacherman - If any of those checks fail to clear I'll be in for a reimbursment fund. Don't be shy to make a post requesting such. Heck, if I can pony up $10 to get blackrazor a new bolt for his .50, I can pony up at least that much to help you out.

[XLMiguel]

Excellent thread, much food for thought. Thank you for sharing!

I second Strumruger's firedrill suggestion. The best plans in the world are useless if they aren't tested, practiced, and refined. My B/SIL live outside Albuquerque, and while they don't have hurricanes or floods, they do have wildfires.

It's just the two of them, but they also have three dogs and two cats who they'd never leave behind. Critters add an extra layer of complexity. They have a small trailier, and prepared a list of stuff to pack for evacuation, but it wasn't until they actually had a fire scare and had to pack up that they got a reality check on what they really could pack and carry reasonably. Fortunately, it was just a scare, but the list is a lot different now, priorities have been re-thought, some stuff is just left packed and pre-staged all the time, other things are grouped for easy gathering if TSHTF.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

My tip: I have a 160 Gb external USB drive that I back up to weekly. I figure it's much easier to grab that and split rather than trying to hump the computer to the car in the event of an emergency. I also have hardcopies of pertinent docs in a waterproof bag and all my Cr cards, acct #, etc in my PDA (now al I need to do is get a spare charger for it and the cell phone for the BoB.

[Preacherman]

Sumpnz, thanks for the offer, but I'd rather you donated to the Salvation Army or other charity of your choice for relief work in NO. I consider my expenses to be my contribution to disaster relief.

[Crosshair]

My observations for what I will carry.

1. More water than food. I'm a little chubby so I can loose a few pounds anyway. Just keep some vitimans handy. Water filter kit would be nice. I have 7 gallons of water right next to me in a container that I have kept for several years (I change the water every now and then.)

2. Weapons. Realisticly, I would probably only take my 10/22 and my SKS, probably my Astra .357 as well. My Garand and 22-250 are too heavy for all the other stuff I will need. My AK I don't trust yet. My 10/22 is light and has a nice folding stock and you can cary lots of 22LR. Most people will probably find an easier target when lead in any form is flying their way. Use the SKS for the heavier stuff. It pains me to leave everything else behind, but the choice has to be made. If possible I would take as much as I can.

3. Try to travel by car, but plan on traveling on foot. If you have to ditch you're car. Take the above and remove an important part from the guns you have to leave behind. (Bolt from my bolt guns, trigger group from my Garand.)

4. Camp out of you're car if the roads are cloged. If you're moving really slow and wasting gas, get to an "out of the way" place and wait for it to clear. In the case of NO, you would have probably felt more of the storm, but at least you would not be driving. Try to find a wind break if possible (Stay away from trees.) Again, I'm in ND right now so this may or may not have been a good idea.

There is another thread about a SHTF bike. It was a good read and in light of current events it would be a good read.

[Boats]

The easiest way to carry 13,000 gallons of water.
http://katadyn.ch/site/us/home/outdoor_products/our_products/endurance_series/pocket/img/Pocket_Produktseite.gif

Katadyn Pocket Filter ~$200.00. It would be priceless in a disaster zone like the one on the Gulf Coast.

[perception]

Here is another thing I don't think I have seen. Someone suggested a chainsaw, but I think an axe would serve better, especially if gas is running low. Take a metal file too, and that axe will serve for a long time.

[sumpnz]

Someone suggested a chainsaw, but I think an axe would serve better Yeah, in a camping situation where firewood is all you're concerned about that might be a good idea. However, if I was having to clear downed trees from the road while making my escape the last thing I want to do is play Paul Bunyan when I could be playing Tim Taylor.

[NMshooter]

For those interested in communications check out the ARRL.

Mike in VA, if your relatives are interested have them get together with some of us next time we have a shoot. Also ask them to look into building a pool or pond. Often the fire department will not be able to bring their own water but if there is water on site they may be able to get a pumper in. At least with water your brother might have a chance of doing something himself.

And he would have a guaranteed water supply.

A firebreak is something he could make himself.

I have hinted about caches in other threads, I will bring up the subject again here. At destinations and waypoints you can keep small caches of supplies handy. If Preacherman's home was a potential destination I would store supplies there, and I would contribute to his stores in payment for this.

In Louisiana where water is abundant filters are easier to carry than water at 8lbs/gallon. Food is not as important in a hot climate. Your home may be different, so plan accordingly.

If you must go on foot be realistic about how much weight you can carry and how far you can go each day (or night as the case may be).

Preacherman's team concept is very much like some of the things I have been considering for years. If you consider the concept of the Special Forces A and B teams, but modified to include specialities such as construction and transportation, you could have a small core team of shooters supporting a larger group of folks with important skills who are also capable of defending themselves. This team would not only be able to help others but also train others to help themselves.

That is one thing I would have liked to have seen in "Lights Out", not only would such a team help to draw the county together, they would also be able to gather intelligence on the area, so there would be fewer suprises.

[Drizzt]

Fortress CAnnoneer sounds good and all that, but be careful with the generator; there's already several reports of deaths from folks using generators in their homes without the proper ventilation, and since you're making this place watertight and all.....

[LAK]

13. Don't rely on government-run shelters if at all possible. Your weapons WILL be confiscated
Not only your weapons - but pets as well.

And in a disaster of such scale don't expect to ever see Fluffy again if "confiscated" at a gov shelter; Uncle is not going to spend the time or money on them, other than for their "humane" destruction and safe disposal.

Yes, have a plan and a place - avoid gov shelters at all costs.
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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

[LAK]

Mongo the MuttererDeadeye Deb (my fiancee) and I were discussing a SHTF kit last night. The first thing she said was COFFEE, and a coffee pot to put on a grill or fire.
Coffee and cigarettes; highly desireable barter too. How ever many extra Folgers plastic cans and cartons of cigarettes you can afford to keep on hand in rotating stock - in addition to your own needs and backup - might be worth their weight in gold in exchange for other goods and services.

I like good cigars too :D
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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

[thorn726]

boats, awesome suggestion. iodine tablets also.

that's one thing i really should have on hand in case of earthquake though, the filter/pump.

i really like living right at the bottom of the hill though, no worries of sliding down it/ or it sliding on to me, 2 supermarkets and a produce market, all the supplies within a 2 block area. no drive to stock up, not much time needed, and absolute SHTF i can pack it to the hills on foot.

my worst problem would be how far from home am i if it was during work.

thats the screwy part, you dont have ANY time to prepare for a quake.
i really do need that filter. food, with all these markets, ill get. water could become a problem, but the filter would do it, there are enough sources of water within walking distance

I have hinted about caches in other threads

i was gonna mention this as well, lots of people already have them. homeless use them all he time, buckets buried. i hate to mention it here, cause i dont know how much good it does people with no high gound. of course, a farther away cache cant hurt, but if you have to drive to it, semi defeats the purpose. i five gallon bucket buried can contain all kinds of things.

[LAK]

6. (Planning) .... The idea of a "team" of friends with (or to) whom to bug out, survive, etc. is looking better and better. Some of the team could take on the task of keeping a home maintained (even a camp-type facility), looking after kids, providing base security, etc ... [etc]
This is a very sound concept if you can get the cooperation of a group of trusted friends.

Perhaps a remote vacation retreat for camping trips and hunting. The only major hiccup might be if the disaster was much wider in scope than anticipated and covered the retreat area as well.

But there is a measure of safety in numbers, and individual families with young children, sick or elderly are potentially very vulnerable on their own.

Boats,

A useful and perhaps essential companion to the Pocket filter is the Micro with spare charcoal elements. The Pocket model will not remove chemicals. I was very fortunate to get my Pocket model for $69.00 on an REI closeout a few years back.
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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

[ruger270man]

this thread is invaluable.. I went into General discussion to make a thread about bug-out bags, and see that the ball has already gotten rolling.

Great suggestions so far, especially the water filter

can we sticky this?

[dpesec]

Dave,
If you have your Yeasu, it has general weather radio built in. One thing I'd suggest is to get a AA battery pack for it.
I actually have enough battery power in my shack to keep my HF running for a few days without power.
73s

[dpesec]

LAK, about the animals sad but true. That's why I plan on taking them with me. When my area was hit with a major snow and ice storm, I was one of the few people who could get around, why I had a Jeep. Will I ever give up my 4X4, nope.

I have,I hope anyway, friends in Gulfport and they chose to "ride out" the strom because of their dogs and parrot. :(

[Byron Quick]

I had all that, but there are no jobs in Cleveland and I ended up in Florida, hey, at least I live on a hill! 60 feet above sea level.

You need to have a way to get from your island to the mainland when a major hurricane hits. A thirty foot storm surge would turn Florida into an archipelago.

[Mongo the Mutterer]

Wonderful Thread -- Preacherman Thanks again. but one thing you said we should ALL think about (and tattoo on our arms so we never forget)

Moral of the story: if you want to survive, don't rely on the government or any government agency (or private relief organization, for that matter) to save you. Your ass is in your own hands - don't drop it!

[CAS700850]

Amen. They may help with a meal and a drink. THe rest is up to you, and the kindness of strangers.

[Crosshair]

Note to self: Buy one of those hand water filters.

[TarpleyG]

We spoke about scanning in important documents and backing up to a secure, portable media like CD/DVD/external drive. What documents would you consider crucial? Would you include a credit card statement and utilities statements as well?

-Birth certificate
-Naturalization docs
-Driver's license
-Passport
-Insurance policy declaration pages
-???

Greg

[riverdog]

The MSR Mini-Works (http://www.mountainsafetyresearch.com/filters/miniworks_ex.asp)
http://www.mountainsafetyresearch.com/filters/images/miniworks_ex.jpg is a great way to go. I like it because it screws directly onto a standard Nalgene bottle for storage and drinking.

The MSR WaterWorks (http://www.mountainsafetyresearch.com/filters/waterworks_ex.asp) is its big brother and it also screws directly to a Nalgene bottle. More pricey, but it has an additional filtering element.

In NOLA or Biloxi, MS, I'd be using a Brita as a first stage filter to remove the heavy stuff in the water, then add chlorine and then filter that with my MSR miniworks. Brita filter are cheap compared to the MSR's, but they don't take out the small stuff. That's just a plan -- comments would be appreciated.

[Dirty Bob]

The problem I see is that water in NOLA contains petroleum, and possibly chemicals from nearby plants.

Is there a treatment method that addresses these problems?

Thanks for a great thread,
Dirty Bob

[Boats]

When I was thinking about the pocket filter I posted about, I was really more in the mode of assuming that I wouldn't want to drink filtered floodwater in NO, but rather, what I could already do in a place like Mississippi, where fresh water would be more readily available and only somewhat suspect.

To drink NO's flood water, I'd want a four pronged approach to the problem and at least a couple of people to do the work.

First layer would be the pocket filter I posted about earlier, for its high filter endurance, ability to take out microscopic crawlies and bacteria, with good out put. As noted, it won't do anything for petroleum distillates.

Looks like I need to buy an AC capable filter now as well. The water derived from my Katadyn would then be put through this hand-pumped filtration system. Activated charcoal removes many volatile organic compounds from the water. The problem with most AC systems is that while they remove a lot of foul tasting stuff, they usually do a crummy job of removing microscopic biological contaminants, pesticides, and do nothing for any heavy metals. The reason I do not own an AC filter now is that freshwater is abundant in Oregon and usually doesn't have cars, refineries, or oil storage tanks sitting in it.

So the third step is something I need to get a second example of. The Katadyn Survivor 35 is something I have on a boat I have an ownership interest in. It is a hand operated reverse osmosis desalinator. It can take on seawater straight up. Even on freshwater, it would remove heavy metal contaminants and pesticides from the water. I gotta get another one of these as I am 55 miles from the one I already own. I could probably get by just using a Survivor 35 against all contaminants, but RO systems clog too easily for general use where silt or other semi-solid contaminants are going to fill pores. So using other products as pre-filters would take the pressure off of this system and keep it useable longer. Another point: This filter is horrifically expensive, but what's your life worth?

Last step would be water treatment tablets to throw into the finished product just to take the belt and suspenders approach.

I do think I could make sweet water out of the NO flood waters with all of the above equipment, and combined the three filters and some tablets would weigh less than one or so gallons of water carried around.

[Travis McGee]

Great thread!!!!

[Travis McGee]

I hope this thread gets stickied. It's must reading!
Seriously, this is a VERY important and useful thread.

[30Cal]

The problem I see is that water in NOLA contains petroleum, and possibly chemicals from nearby plants.

Is there a treatment method that addresses these problems?

Thanks for a great thread,
Dirty Bob

You can always distill it--you're situation would be pretty poor indeed if you couldn't scrounge enough materials and set up something in an hour that will condense steam and collect the drippings. It's just a lot more time-intensive to make good water. Fuel (wood, gas or watever) is obviously desirable.

If you had an abundance of stove fuel (or a house that's been reduced to splinters), you could make adequate drinking water for a couple of days. A solar still is going to take a lot more material and time to set-up.

[Snake Eyes]

Something else that most THR denizens probably don't have to consider, but I know some of us DO:

I've never killed anything.

I don't have the first idea of how to stalk, hunt, kill, clean, or skin an animal.

I'm sure I could kill something, and hack off enough meat to burn over a fire (and, yes, I CAN make fire). But what an inefficient way to go about trying to survive. And what a waste of usable goods--hide, etc.

I think getting some one to take me hunting and teaching me the ropes has just become a much higher priority.

[carebear]

Snake Eyes,

Good point.

Perhaps even more important than figuring out how to catch/kill something to eat is how to clean and cook it. Almost anything that moves is edible if cooked.

There are a lot of survival manuals on how to make snares and such (though you're better off taking pre-mades with you), what you need is a book (and instruction if available) on how to skin out and clean small and large game.

Also, a book for your region on local plant life can be a life saver. The woods and parks (and lawns and gardens) are full of goodies. People die (usually not of hunger but uncomfortably hungry anyway) while walking through nature's produce section.

Up here anyway most small game can be taken year round. Go camping but on this trip, plan on killing and eating something.

[dmftoy1]

I bought this for my boys when we started camping (a long long time ago). Alot of interesting stuff in it:

http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/agcatalog/level4s.tam?xax=24080&pagenumber%2Eptx=1&M5COPY%2Ectx=27070&M5%2Ectx=27070&M2%5FDESC%2Ectx=Survival%20Books%2C%20Cards%2C%20Manuals&level3%2Ectx=results%2Etam&query%2Ectx=manual&backto=%2Fagcatalog%2Fresults%2Etam

(I think that's a newer one than we have)

We also had the special forces "medic" manual. Alot of info in there that I'll never use, but really interesting stuff about helping a woman give birth, etc. etc.

[Nimitz]

great great post....

I've realized after living and tampa and having 4 feet of water in the house....that a Bug out bag is vital...however i wouldnt have been prepared for something like this...for sure.

i had some most of the stuff in rubbermaid contrainer...not good if i had to carry it on foot.

what the heck do you put all your gear in fellas?

some stuff i didnt think bout was a hand pump filter such as the katadyn...

only had iodine tablets.

also didnt think about a "surivial book"...seems good to.

• 7 days worth of MRE’s (Meals Ready to Eat)
• 3 gallons of water.
• Katadyn Water Filter
• Prescription Medicine
• Important documents
• Batteries AA, AAA, C’s D’s
• Cash money for 2 weeks…$1,000 cash (small bills) this should be ENOUGH....i'd hope.
• Phone Numbers of family/friends, hospitals, etc.
• Extra gas for car.
• 2 fixed blade knives anyone got some brand recommendations? keep it under $150 for both?
• Female toiletries
• Baby wipes
• Basic good first aid kit (the TAD gear one is nice)
• Tool kit (basic screwdrivers, wrenches, sockets)
• Fix-A-Flat
• Trail mix (pleasure food)
• Local topographical maps
• Magnesium Fire starter
• Water proof matches
• Collapsible dog water bowl
• 2 flashlights
• Duct Tape
• Para cord how much
• Army Survival book
• Toothpaste
• Shampoo
• Hand sanitizer
• Toilet paper
• Dog food
• Signal mirror
• Emergency space blanket
• Cotton bandana
• Whistle
• SMALL mess kit
• Rain jackets (2)
• Flare gun

ok that seems like ALOT...what do you guys think?

this is for 2 adults, my mother and myself and our one dog.

please feel free to critque it (please be nice?)...anything i need to get rid of or add?

Chad

[Jeff Timm]

"2 fixed blade knives anyone got some brand recommendations? keep it under $150 for both?" Kabar $39 sticker, but isn't innocuous. (Looks mean)

From Midway.com KA-BAR Short Black Fighting/Utility Knife 5-1/4" Partially Serrated Carbon Steel Blade Black Kraton Handle Black with Leather Sheath
Product #: 885944 Status: Available Our Price: $36.99

A smaller knife and a light hand Axe, might be better.

Geoff
Who has a beatup old Finn and a Swiss Army knife. :)

[Jeff Timm]

Oil and filter for your vehicle. Pre-mixed anti-freeze for radiator.

Geoff
Who wears a Swiss Army Knife and has since 1972. ;)

[AFreeBird]

Hi all, I got a link to this thread over at FreeRepublic, I think Travis posted it.

Great Thread, very informative. I would like to ask though; haven't seen mention of:

Some Good glass - optics. Not just for your rifle (I suppose that's a given?), but binoculars. Even the small compact Nikon style that can be attached to a belt or stowed in a larger pocket. Those or a larger set would be good for scanning the road ahead for roadblocks or other obstacles that lack of comms (or chatter) might not alert you to. And others uses such as camp perimiter security. Oh, what about a small magnafying glass. Good for starting fires in sunlight (can save on matches and magnesium) and help out those who are visionally challenged with the small stuff.

GPS. Someone mentioned XMS/Sirrius sat radio as a good source of news especially when local stations are down due to disasters, so it would seem a good portable GPS unit would be in order as well. I'm not talking about the type you mount on your dash that show you roads (not that there's anything wrong with those, and if you have one by all means make sure it in your BoVehicle) but also the type used for backpacking. (It goes without saying that a good compass and chronograph are packed)

I do have an old Ruger 10/22 that would be a good small game rifle, but it has the original wooden stock and I was thinking that for a BoB; that an Armalite 22, the type that breaks down and stores in its own stock would be better. Light compact, stowable, and it floats. Comments?

BTW: I think this thread should be a sticky as well.

[Dave Markowitz]

2 fixed blade knives anyone got some brand recommendations? keep it under $150 for both?

Several models from Becker Knife & Tool, who is owned by Camillus. In particular, the BKT Combat-Utility 7 is a great 7" sheath knife. They run about $50 - $65.

[Dave Markowitz]

I do have an old Ruger 10/22 that would be a good small game rifle, but it has the original wooden stock and I was thinking that for a BoB; that an Armalite 22, the type that breaks down and stores in its own stock would be better. Light compact, stowable, and it floats. Comments?

IMHO, the Ruger 10/22 -- especially older models -- is the best .22 autoloader ever made. Rather than an AR-7, I'd put the 10/22 into a folding stock from either Choate or Butler Creek. It'll be quicker to deploy than a rifle that's stowed inside its own stock, and will still be quite compact.

[hso]

If you consider that you may have to bug out you may want to have an account with a national bank like Bank of America or Chase.

Most of us bank with a local or state bank. Should the power be out or the facilities destroyed due to a Katrina level disaster even if we'd gotten out ahead of time we could be destitute with thousands "in the bank". This is the case if you're on vacation or away from the region and a local disaster takes out your bank temporarily.

If, otoh, we keep an account with Chase, BOA, etc. we can keep a baseline amount there for travel, vacation, BugOut that allows us to walk in to any branch or up to any autoteller for "Ol BigBanking" and withdraw cash (cash is king in an emergency). If we have some forewarning we can move money from our "preferred" bank to the emergency account by check or wire transfer.

If nothing else it could cut down on those nasty autoteller charges.

[mrming]

I'd have to agree with the 10/22 as a required tool. Obviously small game will quickly become rare in some areas, but if you don't got it you can't use it. Marlin model 60 is another good option, perhaps better as it doesn't require a detachable mag.


I think the one lesson that hasn't been evident is to plan for the disasters in your area; not the ones you've seen on TV. TN sits on a very nasty, but largely inactive fault line. We have had a few trembles in recent years, and if it goes most of our major cities will be reduced to dust. If it every happens, We won't be facing masses of polluted water everywhere. Instead we will have to handle mosquitoes, rats, possible plauge outbreaks from the mountain regions, and the closure of all major roads for the immediate future ( do you really believe that overpasses in TN are rated for earthquakes like in CA?).

I have two friends whom are most likely still in NO. He was department head over surgical techs at one of the larger hospitals. Obviously he was required to stay. He also had moved his elderly parents to housing near his own, so last minute evac wasn't going to happen.

Which brings me to a final pair of lessons:
1. Don't take jobs that can mandate you stay in place. Doing good for society rarely improves your own survival chances. I'm personally afraid of the backlash that will occur once real fatality numbers are known among emergency services (fire, police, medical personal).

2. Family that no longer can take care of themselves, no matter how much you love them, belong in professional care in a low disaster-risk area. Its great that you can care for them now, but if your job/marriage/health/enviroment goes south they'll be the first to hurt for it.



I'd suggest also that perhaps money in an overseas bank would be a good thing. Switzerland has some nasty history, but their money is backed by gold and has faired well against inflation thats nailed us. If switzerland disappears, most of the world economy will go with it anyway.

[AFreeBird]

IMHO, the Ruger 10/22 -- especially older models -- is the best .22 autoloader ever made. Rather than an AR-7, I'd put the 10/22 into a folding stock from either Choate or Butler Creek. It'll be quicker to deploy than a rifle that's stowed inside its own stock, and will still be quite compact.

Okay, New stock. I like the 10/22 but I've noticed that on a hot day running a lot of rounds through it; it can sorta go auto (2~3 rnd burst). I figure rounds are cooking off when they hit the chamber. I guess I was just thinking (RE: AR-7) about having a rifle that could be stowed in a pack for quick getaways.

Having a little more time to gather more equipment; I have other "toys" I can bring. Marlin 22 & 30-30 lever, Moss 500; Rem 1100 (w/extra rifled barrel for slugs); Browning O/U 12GA, DanWesson .357 (only one 4" barrel) and a couple of Browning 9's, oh and a "evil ugly black gun". I just remembered that my "evil ugly black gun" came with a .22LR conversion kit, which I've never used. Anyone ever mess with that?

[dpesec]

here's a good knife, I just picked one up.
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=6780&tabID=1

some other knives I have:
http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=6699&tabID=1&categoryID=11&pos=34

http://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=8949&tabID=1&categoryID=11&pos=39

I also have some folders:
http://www.islandtactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=19193

http://www.sogknives.com/Folding/SOG-Trident/TF-2.htm

personally you can't have too many knives.
I'm also looking at getting a small axe to put in my BOB

[Nio]

Hurricane Katrina Blog (http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/k/p/050830.htm)

Nio

[earonthief]

Good thread, so many things to think about.

Something else . If you are or have someone on special medical care, get and keep an updated copy of health records and shot cards, list's of allergies. Identify facilities that can perform necessary functions (dialysis) in your area or along you BO route.
This may sound morbid but with your important papers you might concider your Will.

Plan ahead,pratice,pratice,pray and read this thread.

[Cosmoline]

I'm doing a complete overhaul of my earthquake kit and evac plan in light of recent developments.

My former plan had been to bug back out to the remote site in Willow with a stockpile of food and fuel, but I'm not sure how realistic that would be. Another nine pointer is likely to drop not only a lot of real estate into the water, but shut down the only highways with several large mountains at their narrow points (Turnagain Arm to the south, Eagle River to the north). Not to mention no power, water, gas or anything else.

Now I'm thinking a more realistic plan is to quickly scan an emergency radio for tsunami warnings, and if that danger passes hunker down on site, using my supplies and help from others to set up temporary shelter and dig for survivors. Not too worried about race riots up here, at least not in this part of town. The cold in winter is the biggest concern. If it happens in summer we can fish and grab moose from the parkstrip as needed. If it happens during a cold snap, esp. in the night, death is only about half an hour away even if no debris kill you. Having a complete set of winter clothes on hand is vital.

The schools here are already set up to take all their students, feed them and keep them warm for weeks. But that only applies to the young ones and if the schools are standing.

[Highland Ranger]

In one of these scenarios, at some point you may be on foot - For those of us who are less than fit, how about getting and staying on some program that gives us the ability to walk 5 or 10 miles in a day without getting a heart attack.

Also as a comment: Living in the Northeast I have had many folks question my "hobby". My typical response, being an engineer who is very familiar with what it takes to turn on a light, have water come out of a faucet and flush a toilet, is that a very FINE line of infrastructure separates us from living like animals.

Can you hunt, provide and protect for yourself and your family if the local supermarket doesn't have food on its shelves for a month?

Folks in New Orleans are finding the answer to that question the hard way.

Also, the list of places not to live - add big cities. Things get bad faster in the big cities.

[tommytrauma]

AFreeBird mentioned GPs units, which is kind of ironic;

I bought a Garmin Streetpilot C330 about a month ago. It's one of the GPS units that mounts on the dash and provides turn by turn voice directions to any destination entered. A couple of weks ago, we had a tornado rip through a neighboring town, destroying a couple of dozen homes and messing up roadways completely. I work as a paramedic, and ended up responding in my own vehicle. The Streetpilot was a godsend, especially when I couldn't make a turn or was detoured by downed wires, trees, etc. It would simply announce "off route - recalculating" and re-route me. This was on pitch dark country roads with lots of crap in the road. If I'd had to split my attention to lok at the atlas, it would have been a mess.

I now see this little gizmo as invaluable in any sort of situation involving roadway bugout.

[LAK]

dpesec,

Sorry to hear about your friends - and I wish them well. The thought of anything less than extensive preparation in a strong brick/masonry construction two-story (at least) sounds very grim anywhere in the area.

------------------------------
http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

[LAK]

On the subject of filtering heavily contaminated water containing petroleum and or other chemicals; I would always filter the chemicals first through the carbon stage.

Why? Because if you use your bacterial filter in the first stage - it becomes contaminated right off - and permanently so. Meaning that if you find any "clean" water sources elsewhere, you must employ a carbon filter again in the second stage every time.

Of course even the best carbon stage filtration might allow a tiny fractional percentage of contamination of the bacterial filter anyway; but if you run out of carbon filters, and find the "clean" water source later on, you now have only a heavily contaminated bacterial filter.

Drip coffee filters tied around your primary filter intake make an excellent first stage to keep much sludge and particulates from clogging your system early on.
--------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

[Glacius_the_Invincible]

I don't believe this has been mentioned... But if I were in NO, or any other place where flooding was a possibility, I think an inflatable raft or boat, even a small one, would be invaluable. If you have to hike miles through a couple feet of water, being able to float your heavy stuff along behind you in an inflatable raft would be very convenient. If the water's deeper, you can paddle out. And if you run out of water, you can deflate it and stuff it in a backpack.

[hso]

Glacius_the_Invincible, what does such a raft weigh and where do you get one?

[Glacius_the_Invincible]

I have no idea. Maybe it was a dumb idea. I've never actually seen one in person and hadn't looked into it much when I said that.

I found this (http://www.soar1.com/soar_12.htm) one in a quick search. It's bigger than I was picturing. It's 12 feet long and weighs in at 52lbs.

This (http://www.clavey.com/ik_hyside_1person.html) one is a bit smaller at 9 feet long and weighs in at 36lbs.

Didn't realize they'd cost nearly so much either.

This one (http://www.clavey.com/ik_stearns_canoe_ik.html) is much less costly but also a fair amount smaller, only having a capacity of 500lbs. Still weighs 35lbs though.

These (http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=711592&cp=712859.1334552) are more along the lines of what I was thinking of, but this site doesn't give weights and measurements for all of them.

I guess one of these would probably be too heavy to carry around in a backpack with much else in there with it, but if you knew you were going to face flood waters along your exit route and wouldn't be able to drive, it might be worth taking along.

Sorry for the unresearched post. :uhoh:

[Igloodude]

A very good thought, Glacius, but from personal experience I cringe at the thought of relying on a raft in floodwaters because of the amount of sharp objects, debris, and shallows that would be ready to poke or rip it.

Then again, far better than nothing, and still better than a kapok or plastic lifejacket.

I've got a coat that has a CO2 cartridge in it with inflatable sides. In the kind of circumstances you're talking about, that's what I'm wearing.

[dpesec]

LAK,
Thanks for the kind words. I actually heard from them yesterday. All fine. But I got into an argument with my GF about NO. It's amazing how some folks don't get it.
She can't understand why I say when somebody is shooting at the evac helo, you need to take out the animals. She doesn't understand that you need a safe environment to conduct the operations. Sure there might be some collateral damage, and some innocents might behurt or worse, but you need to look at the big picture. There's a few animals that are prolonging this problem.

[yahkohb]

Much good info here.

FYI REI is having a labor day sale, and included in the things on sale are freeze-dried backpacking foods, energy bars, and the MSR MiniWorks EX water filter. Lots of other stuff too like Gerber knives, various clothing, etc.

[owen]

Before you throw all this stuff in your pack, and think you are good to go, can you even carry it?

Anything over 70 pounds is going to make for a tough walk anywhere.

So, once you have that crap, throw on your pack and go for a walk.

[CAnnoneer]

what does such a raft weigh and where do you get one?

The ones Glacius showed are good but very expensive for what they do. They are meant for serious kayaking, e.g. in rapids, etc. Also they are very heavy because they are relatively big and made of thick heavy rubber.

My solution would be a smaller inflatable raft, e.g. from Army Surplus store. I got mine for 30 bucks. It weighs only a few pounds deflated. I have done a lot of lake kayaking with it and it performed very well. It has 350 lbs capacity, is about 2 meters long, and collapses to the size of a small suitcase. If I were worried about flooding I would buy several for provisions and backup.

[Dirty Bob]

If you take an inflatable boat, don't forget duct tape for repairs in the field! No kidding!

Dirty Bob

[Preacherman]

Before you throw all this stuff in your pack, and think you are good to go, can you even carry it?

Anything over 70 pounds is going to make for a tough walk anywhere.

So, once you have that crap, throw on your pack and go for a walk.

A very good point, and one that is of particular concern to me - since my spinal fusion surgery, there's no way I could carry more than a few pounds on my back without serious discomfort and eventual disablement. My response has been to go to a wheeled suitcase for my personal bug-out kit, and that will be replaced soon by a two-wheel bike trailer that I can strap to a load-bearing rig over my shoulders and round my hips. That way, I can pull up to 100 pounds with me, and not have too much strain on my back.

[pax]

Nio ~

Glad to hear you and yours are safe. Here's hoping your house fared as well as you did.

pax

[owen]

You know preacherman, I hadn't thought of that. Think there is a market for lightweight rickshaws?

[texascarl]

A few other things I include in my bug out bag, you might find 'em useful:

a 14" Machete (http://www.tramontina.com.br/search/search.aspx?language=1&search=machete)

Folding garden cart (http://www.pointshop.com/Mall/Catalog/Product/ASP/product-id/62770/store-id/1000010644.html) to move heavy loads after the road ends/gas runs out

Frog gig/fish spear head (http://www.sbtoutdoors.com/fish_spears.htm) -cut a handle on the spot

Mora knives (http://www.ragweedforge.com/SwedishKnifeCatalog.html)

Crow bar (http://www.quakekare.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=64)

bow saw (https://www.ebizenterprise.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=40267)

Earthquake 'bug out bag' checklist (http://www.equipped.com/earthqk.htm)

An 'altoids' tin with a dozen large fish hooks, swivels, split shot and 40' of masons twine.

And a $7 enameled stockpot w/lid, fill with $10 worth of lentils/peas/beans, rice, barley, oatmeal, salt, sugar, your favorite spices, bullion cubes, tea, a few tin cups/spoons/bowls and a big box of kitchen matches. Store everything in a few sealed plastic bags.

[Byron Quick]

My response has been to go to a wheeled suitcase for my personal bug-out kit, and that will be replaced soon by a two-wheel bike trailer that I can strap to a load-bearing rig over my shoulders and round my hips. That way, I can pull up to 100 pounds with me, and not have too much strain on my back.

Preacherman,

Sounds good. Make sure that you've got quick release capability on that rig, though.

I use a heavy duty climbing stand. (necessitated by heavy duty eating.) 27 pounds and it came without straps. I found some straps at an Army Surplus store that had quick release pulls.

When I tripped in a beaver swamp and wound up pinned underwater in a big puddle...I was grateful for the foresight. Popped the quick release, scooted out from under the climbing stand, freed it from roots and cypress knees. Marked the spot with blaze orange tape and headed for the cabin, the propane heater, a change of clothes, disassembled and cleaned my Browning. Got a nice doe that afternoon. Without quick release tabs, I would probably have been discovered by my buddy...drowned in a pool of water four feet by six feet by two feet deep. I would have hated that.

[LAK]

dpesecLAK, Thanks for the kind words. I actually heard from them yesterday. All fine.
That is great news!
But I got into an argument with my GF about NO. It's amazing how some folks don't get it. [etc]
I have a conflict with this one. The problem is that in many parts of the country we have been gelded as a people so to speak. Not everyone of course - just in the general sense.

Government, by the gradual fostering of a State funded welfare class, the fueling of the criminal drug culture by way of the so called "drug war", a corrupted judiciary and penal system, the gradual discouragement and de facto disarming of the general population and other means, has created a society of dependency.

A good gauge of such matters is how many peole are very surprized or shocked at what has happened in NO. Those that are not will generally be found to be the best prepared.

In the case of the "recent" late great NO, there never should have been any need for debate as to whether a massive operation involving National Guard troops was needed or not, and unfortunately it is all coming too little too late.
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http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

[LAK]

On the subject of inflatable boats, I personally think they are an excellent idea. That or a superlightweight canoe.

In addition to flooding, you never know when you may want to skirt some coastline, or make use of river or lake for travel etc. In the flooded city environment in particular, it is important to keep yourself out of the water as far as possible. Sewer content, dead animals and dead humans and chemicals combine to make a pretty poisonous cocktail; you really do not want that stuff in contact with your skin at all if you can help it.
---------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

[Doc2005]

Preacherman, great contribution. Some years back I learned from a basement flood that Wal-Mart's (Rubbermaid) plastic storage containers with lids really are useful for MANY reasons. They are about 2 X 2 1/2 feet, by 16 inches deep. They result in being organized, keep things eminently dry and they are EASY to grab in a hurry. We have nearly 50 of these pliable bins. DO NOT BUY THE CHEAP ONES THAT CRACK!

We have them set in nice stacks and labeled for contents. ALL camping items in some, all hunting items in some others, all survival items in yet others. Color coordinate them too: red = emergency survival; green = camping; blue = household.

At any time, I have 3 gallons of Coleman fuel for the Coleman stoves, and I buy ONLY Coleman Dual Fuel camping tools, because they work w/ gasoline too. Regarding the MUST take/save family items, those are locked in the gun vault. If ever there be the need to bug out, we are always nearly all packed away. Red and green boxes are MUST takes. The safe contents are a must take. As we live in very high land, I doubt here we'd have flood issues, but other emergencies could always arise.

Thanks to all who posted here...this was excellent education for me and for my family. I just hope we never need to enact it.

Wow, I can't believe I forgot to explicitly list this one...the one I ALWAYS take when travelling...my little red Craftsman tool box and Chilton's repair manual for both vehicles. You want to see vacation money up in smoke qucikly? Reflect back on the late 1960s early 1970s I-75 Hwy. gas stations who were all-too-eager to get under your hood, cutting wires and hoses, poking spring-loaded razors to the tires, etc. I haven't seen that in years, but I'll never forget that experience! Odd how they ALWAYS spotted the TINIEST leaks in tires...didn't even need the tire under water to do it!? Hmmm.

Doc2005

[armoredman]

Seeing how the traditional 72 hour kit may need to upgraded to a 120 hour kit....
Stashing beginning again. Love WalMart. :p

[Cosmoline]

It's important not to forget the small luxury items in your kit. I always keep a backup pipe and tobacco. It's been my observation, backed by hundreds of years of first-hand accounts of people stuck in the wilderness and other extreme situations, that a few small luxuries will help balance out a lot of practical problems. Hard candies in sealed tins are also an excellent idea, so long as they are not the "thirsty" kind like sour lemon.

As far as Coleman--keep in mind that the Coleman of today is not the Coleman of thirty years ago. Most of the stuff in sporting goods stores is overseas junk. When I first moved out to the sticks I had a number of Coleman propane appliances. Sadly I found out they were not designed for any prolonged use. The stoves broke apart within weeks, and after two months the propane heater exploded into flames.

GET MIL SPEC! GO WITH OLD, NOT NEW!!! They do not make 'em like they used to. I replaced the sporting goods aisle junk I first got with high-quality brass lanterns from the Amish store Lehman's and military surplus stoves and pressurized lanterns. These have proven nearly impossible to damage or destroy. They work in the worst conditions, every time.

I just ordered another cookstove/lamp from Lehman's along with a carbide lamp and supply of calcium carbide. These items will work even in the worst circumstances. Though perhaps calcium carbide isn't the best idea for a flood prone area :D (KABOOM!)

[ctdonath]

I picked up a cheap inflatable raft ($50? IIRC) at Gander Mountain. Have used it several times for fun. Packs pretty small (under 3 cubic feet), can hold two adults and a small dog, supports a small electric motor (extra), and has 3 separate inflation chambers.

Not something I'd carry, but very easy to keep or toss in the car as needed.

[ctdonath]

Where to find an AR-20? Seems like a perfect minimal take-down .22.

[dpesec]

I never thought about Carbide lamps, but because I could have a problem with water, I picked up the Olive oil lamp.
that should work too

[Joe Mamma]

.

[pax]

It's important not to forget the small luxury items in your kit.
A deck of playing cards doesn't take up much space or weight, but can be invaluable in keeping people calm & distracted if you have to hole up awhile.

pax

[torpid]

Just an addition to the "inflatable raft during flooding" series of comments:

For carrying supplies, you can "mule train" small inflatable pools (they often have walls over a foot high, and inflate quickly).

Or something like this inflatable trampoline (http://www.coolinflatables.com/site/891852/product/ITXJUMPOLENE82JUMPOLENE) sure could hold a lot of extra stuff (including the kids!) that would take up volume otherwise in backpacks. And you could play with it in non-SHTF times, too. :)

And I also agree that you should have tape/patch kits too!

.

[texascarl]

A deck of playing cards doesn't take up much space or weight, but can be invaluable in keeping people calm & distracted if you have to hole up awhile.

And if you're ever lost or in need of rescue just start a game of solitaire and sit there with a red queen open and a black jack available to move on to it...within 5 minutes SOMEONE will show up to point out that you're missing a play. Let 'em rescue you, while they're handy.

[hso]

Peter,

Look at the Chariot Hiking conversion kit at the bottom of http://www.bicycletrailers.com/chariot-conversion-kits.htm. Find a used Chariot "stroller" and put the kit on it.

[308win]

Someone asked about portable multi-band radios - Eatons (carried by Best Buy, Circuit City, RadioShack) makes several AM/FM/SW models some with crank chargers, some with internal battery rechargers, some without either. Most are under $150, many about $100.

Knives - KBar fighting knife is a good choice but it is big, heavy, and anything but concealable or inconspicuous. Buck makes nice fixed blade and folders. Ken Onion folders are nice, get one with the partially serrated blade as it makes cutting seatbelts, nylon cord/rope, etc. easier.

In any disaster there are three kinds of people: the desperate - people who are taking what they need to survive; the degenerate - these are the people who are stealing from you every chance they get regardless of the conditions; and the disinfranchised who are stealing because they believe they have been mistreated by society and see the conditions as a chance to 'get some' or get one over one the man. This isn't my analysis, I read it in USAToday but I believe it makes sense.

[Preacherman]

HSO, great suggestion - thanks!

I'm now working on how best to pack a "chariot" like that. Given that I won't be able to put 50 pounds plus on my back, I don't need to put it all into one big bag. I'm thinking that I'll wear a fanny-pack and a tactical vest to hold "must-have" items (basic first aid kit, one-day supply of essential foods, water bottle, carry ammo, rainproofs, change of underwear and socks, handgun magazines, flashlight, map, compass, commo gear [small radio, cellphone], etc.). I could probably keep this load under 20-30 pounds with a bit of skull sweat. I'd also have my long gun on my back - something light, probably an AK clone. Then, in the chariot, I'd have a sleeping bag, a light tent or dual-purpose tarpaulin, a bag of clothing, a bag of toiletries (very basic, of course), a sanitary unit, foodstuffs (again, as light as possible: high-calorie, high-fat, high-energy, low-bulk stuff), extra ammo, extra water, and so on.

In this way, I could see myself loading out with enough gear to make it for 3-5 days on my own. I'd have to include rope, etc. so that if I hit terrain where I couldn't hike with the trailer, I could lift or lower it and its contents (either as one load, or separately) to the next viable position.

Hmmm... shopping time! :D

[hso]

No offense, Kershaw makes some great everyday knives, but doesn't currently make a folder that I'd bet my butt on in a bugout situation (and I often carry one of my dozen Kershaw KOs).

Non-firearms weapons forum here has ton's of discussions on "best knife".