Emergency food.

[Lucky]

If you are in a grocery store being looted, and you focus only on getting nutrition, not hydration, what food do you go for?

I don't know, but the best emergency foods I know are GORP (granola oatmeal raisins peanuts) and butter/margarine/lard whatever. In school arctic explorers who traversed Baffin Island once gave a presentation, aside from snow-baths I remember that he said a great food source is blocks of margarine, the ones wrapped in tin-foil, about 1 inch by 4 inches by 4 inches. They had pictures of them eating a block like you would a candy bar.

Well, that's my ideas. I know I'm missing protein, but I hope other people will have good ideas on that, and other great foods for emergency.

It just makes me queasy to think that people were so, unfortunate, as to loot potato chips.

[Moondoggie]

Peanut butter!

Spam. (No can opener required - has it's own key!)

Soda Crackers.

Fruit Juices...the real stuff like grape juice. Grab the small bottles.

Nuts.

You could easily carry enough in a few (triple bagged) plastic sacks to survive for a couple of weeks.

Just add water, and you're good to go! :)

Edited to add: I'd also snag a pkg of baby wipes so you could at least clean your paws before eating, a pkg of plastic knives/forks & a bottle of multi-vitamins.

I could be in and out in under 10 minutes.

Might not be a bad idea to add a qty of empty plastic grocery sacks to your emergency supplies.

[Lucky]

Yea, I forgot that peanuts have some protein :banghead: But it's obviously not complete with all the amino acids.

I also think the 'shopping' would be fast, because I suspect many people wouldn't recognize the whole-grains section, let alone take food from it :rolleyes:

I also thought of another good one, pet food! Cans of cat food would be great, because I think I remember that cat food has more protein than dog food. But dry dog food would also be good, because it wouldn't need extensive storage solutions.

One time I went to an event where a used-car lot moved a hundred cars into an empty store in a shopping mall, and made an event for early in the morning of a cold cold saturday. They had 5 cars with red stickers which would only cost $100, and the first people to touch those cars could buy them. I didn't win, and the contest was fair, but I certainly got a good feeling of mob mentality, especiall as the minutes toward the door opening grew closer. Even with absolutely no malicious intent on anyone's part, I saw at least one person get knocked over and injured. I think it was a great learning experience.

[Sindawe]

Cats have a higher protein requirement than dogs, and a different required amino acid set as well, which is why they can not survice on dog food.

Cat Amino Acid needs:

arginine
histidine
isoleucine
leucine
lysine
methionine
phenylalanine
threonine
tryptophan
valine
taurine.

Compare this to the AA requirements for humans:

Histidine
Isoleucine
Leucine
Lysine
Methionine (and/or cysteine)
Phenylalanine (and/or tyrosine)
Threonine
Tryptophan
Valine

So cat food would supply those to our needs, along with arginine which we can make, and taurine which I don't recall if we use at all or not.

I can't speak on palatability, since I've never sampled cat food myself. :barf:

I'd grab canned meats/fish and the highest fiber dry crackers I could find (Triskets IIRC) in addition to Moondoggie's list.

[yorec]

Just cause I was in a store being looted doesn't mean I'd participate. I have stores at home and will not steal "just in case."

However, in a worse case scenario where the store will be the only source of food for the next few weeks...

Grab waht I could of substance - canned meats, chilli, stews, etc. Then a few canned veggies and fruits.
And a lot of chocolote candy bars. Gotta wicked sweet tooth. :evil:

[coylh]

"It just makes me queasy to think that people were so, unfortunate ..."

They're unprepared, not unfortunate. A bag of rice and a water filter would solve most of their problems.

[NMshooter]

Butter contains materials your body finds useful, margarine does not.

If you are going to be mobile the MRE is king. Or as close to it as possible. Does not require water or any preparation.

If you are able to stay home anything will do for a couple days, after that you will want things that do not spoil like pasta, rice, beans, peanut butter, crackers.

Canned food is good to keep handy, chili con carne gives you meat and beans (and occasionally real chili, the green stuff! :D ), "chunky" type soups are also good especially during winter.

Bouillion cubes are always useful.

Keep a years worth of multivitamins.

[Sam]

As NMShooter said MRE's are the king, really full of everything you need plus a bit. Most folks could work HARD and get fat on 2 a day. No prep required and all the minor consumables you need are in there.

Make yourself a big batch of jerky, real honest dry jerky. Keep it dry and it will last a long long time, eat it as is, bust it up and throw in stew, reconstitute and do what you want.
Sam

[Lucky]

:) Big batches of beef jerky don't last as long as you'd think around me. Far as I'm concerned it's it's in a league of it's own.

About butter, how long does it take to turn rancid? We stopped using it, and I guess the stuff we had sat around for quite a while until my uncle visited and asked for butter for his toast, and he politely informed us that it was strongly flavoured... He didn't make a scene, but from what I smelled the butter must have tasted awful.

As I remember the arctic travellers were just eating margarine for the calories.

[LAK]

Multivitamin (like GNC) and as much Vitamin C as possible.
Sardines/other canned fish
Jerky
Oatmeal
Dried fruit
Rice
Mung beans
Salt/pepper/spices
Tea/coffee
Nestles canned cream

Canned items like soups, meats and fruit are good longterm staples. I would also grab as much fresh fruit (Oranges, bananas, apples etc), spuds, onions and broccoli etc as I could carry. While the latter are heavy and won't keep indefinately they will greatly enhance the short term energy requirements.

Best to be prepared as the saying goes. Stock up while you can, rotate regularly. Keep at the ready in a modular system; what you can carry, what you can haul, and what can be kept and used as long as one remains at home or retreat.
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[armoredman]

Dinty Moore beef stew, and their new flavors, chicken and dumplings, and chicken noodle. Good stuff, but grab a couple of bottle of soy sauce or worsteshire sauce of you can. This is my emergency stash, plus cans of vegetable like corn and beans. Poor man's MRE....

[El Tejon]

I'd go with tuna. Can go hard on just tuna for a few days.

Need a big salda to balance it out though. :D

[41mag]

Just cause I was in a store being looted doesn't mean I'd participate. I have stores at home and will not steal "just in case."

For some reason I can envision a High Roader calmly walking through the melee @ the local wundermart.He'll(or she'll) be wearing either jeans or 5.11's,either a flannel shirt or photo vest.On one hip'll ride a Randall,the other a 1911A1.In a "Mad max" holster on the back'll be a sawed off shotgun(either a 870 or S X S seems likely) & slung(safety on!),a FAL,SKS,AK,AR,M-1A(bows),or a Garand.Just calmly shopping & probably getting a nice sized bubble of personal space. :)

[MillCreek]

^^^ You forgot the armored wheelbarrow in which to carry all the provisions. All true THR members have one, of course. :D

[Polishrifleman]

Don't forget the little packets of Tabasco. :evil: That stuff makes everything but milk taste good.(Don't ask :D )

On a side note how did Avery Island fair? I should probably stock up before it doubles in price.

[Derek Zeanah]

Peanut butter and dates. You ought to be able to run hard for 30+ days on that with no major deficiencies...

[Cosmoline]

Here's my top ten list of provisions to get or horde, from experience living on the edge of civilization for a few years:

"HEARTY" STYLE SOUPS AND DENSE CANNED STEWS
The high fat content is excellent for emergency situations, and the food comes with its own water which is also very useful. It can be kept with no refrigeration. They taste good and are satisfying with minimal preparation.

PEANUT BUTTER
Again, a high fat content is a GOOD thing in a pinch. PB can be used to boost the calorie value of breads, crackers, and lots of other things. It keeps without refrigeration as well.

SPAM
Yes, Spam. You folks thinking your going to live on lean meats are nuts. When the world is falling apart around you, you'll be burning off a ton of calories just surviving. Fat is good. Fat is your friend. Fat is life. And Spam has a whole lot of fat.

SARDINES
These fatty little fish are packed with nutrients. They're like fat vitamins. They also store very easily and keep a long time. They can be mixed with other foods if you are brave.

RAMEN
These noodles usually need preparation, but a dirt cheap and easy to stockpile before things get too bad to shop. If you don't have anyway to cook them, they can absolutely be eaten raw and digested. It's not too much fun, but it gets you some calories as long as you also have clean water to drink.

KNACKBROD
These wheels of Swedish hardbread will keep for ages. They hold up under multiple toppings and make a good munching food in a pinch.

SAILOR BOY PILOT BREAD
These large round pilot bread crackers are only avaiable in some specialty stores in the NW and in Alaska, where they remain staples. But these days you can also get them on line. SpanAlaska sales sells them by the case to the lower 48, and a lot of folks stockpiled them in the runup to Y2K. They keep forever and taste good. Add them to ramen soup to bolster it up. YUM! They are about ten times more resiliant to damage, weather, fungus and time than mere soda crackers. In a fight, a Saulor Boy would beat the bejesus out of an entire bag of soda crackers.

CANNED BEANS
These are standard staples, and are useful

CANNED VEGETABLES
Just remember to DRINK the broth not toss it

FIVE GALLON JUG OF FRESH WATER
Not really a food, but essential to digest.

[Dave Markowitz]

Found this article on making tradional trail food:

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/rohdenburg81a.html

Jerky, pemmican, hardtack and parched corn.

[Cosmoline]

Just a note--I've found jerky far too salty for situations when you're trying to conserve water. Kipper snacks seem to be less "thirsty" as a food.

Also, FYI Sailor Boy Pilot Bread (not the other Nabisco "pilot bread" you put in chowder) serves the same function as hard tack, and is very similar in construction.

http://www.criminale.com/blog/images/pilotbbread.jpg

[geekWithA.45]

:neener: :neener: :neener:

{ducks rotten tomatoes and runs...}

[wingnutx]

I once found a can of smoked SPAM while clearing away some taifun wreckage on Guam.

It was delicious.

Stockpiling liquor isn't a bad idea if you have space. It would be great for trading.

[wingnutx]

"Cans of cat food would be great, because I think I remember that cat food has more protein than dog food. But dry dog food would also be good, because it wouldn't need extensive storage solutions.
"

Have you ever smelled cat food? Dog food smells almost like poeple food. Cat food smells like a bag of rancid ass.

I second the Dinty Moore and MRE votes.

[Jeff Timm]

Lucky commented, "I also thought of another good one, pet food! Cans of cat food would be great, because I think I remember that cat food has more protein than dog food. But dry dog food would also be good, because it wouldn't need extensive storage solutions."

To quote Jerry Pournelle, "A pound a day of Purina Monky Chow (TM) will keep a large primate alive."

But it tastes terrible, unless you like British cooking.

Geoff
Who prefers MREs, but compared to C-rations, they look real good. :cool:

[White Horseradish]

I've read somewhere that just about all cat food contains fish and fish byproducts, which is what makes it smell so bad to us. Dogfood should be a lot more edible.

[entropy]

I'll have the Butcher's Blend waiting when you come out tomorrow, WH! ;) Although the killer dachshund might have something to say about that. :uhoh:

At any given time, you can use what you have, in addition to having stuff set aside. Eat the perishables before they go bad, just the meat in my freezer would be several day's food. I keep plenty of Ramen noddles handy, I at a lot more of those in the field while in the Army than MRE's. (I'd usually have Ramen for breakfast, an MRE for lunch, Ramen for supper.) I do have some of the Tray packs handy, picked 'em up at Sportsman's Guide for cheap. By the time I at all I had at home, the markets would be well picked over. But there are plenty of deer near here, and I have a bow.... :evil:

[WT]

coylh - I was thinking the same thing. Top it off with a set of black PJ's, Ho Chi Minh sandals, a pith helmet and an AK.

[NMshooter]

POWs in the Korean war starved to death on diets of 1500 calories and less per day.

You may need as much as 4000 per day depending on your activity level and the temperature (really cold = more calories needed).

You might want to figure out a rough estimate of daily calories needed for each person in your group based on age, physical condition, weather, and activity level.

[Jon Coppenbarger]

I like MRE's and do have a few of them. Could eat two a day and still have alot left after 6 months. Also if I need to I can use the cold weather ones as those cases I did not count into the above but all you need is one a day if you can stand all the calories. A couple extra cases of the dairy shakes help suppliment also, do like the chocolate ones.

[coylh]

WT, you don't have to be a communist to eat rice, if that's the association you're making. Rice makes a good disaster food. It's easy to store, cooks by boiling, and goes with just about anything. Pasta is great too.

[texascarl]

Dry beans, peas, lentils + another grain = a complete protein. So stock up on legumes and add barley, rice, corn meal or hominy (whole 'posole' &/or grits) steel cut oats, wheat 'berries' and some cooking oil (in a pinch you need lots of fat, add it to the bean soup). Get a big enameled stock pot to cook it in/sterilize water while you're shopping for your 'hard times food supply'. I always pack salt, sugar, tea, some extra bullion cubes and a ziplock of pre-mixed 'bean spice' blend (cumin seed, crushed red pepper, paprika, oregano) amazing what a difference this spice pack makes in the end result. Meanwhile, learn to cook lentils, bean/pea soup, posole, grits & polenta. This stuff all keeps well, but I rotate most of it twice a year.

Oatmeal/wheat porridge and hot tea may be a bland breakfast but it sure beats no breakfast at all.

Pack food? Couscous, bullion, tea, instant oatmeal. Peanut butter, dried apricots & almonds. Fishing kit of snelled hooks, swivels, split shot, mason's twine, mono, dry flies (at least 2 red ones for frogs), small treble hooks, frog gig head & snare wire.

[Hutch]

I studied the underlying subject a LOT on the run-up to Y2K (Yep, I was one of THEM). Given the scenario being described, take whatever you can lay hands on. A lot will depend on what you plan to do next. If you are on a leather-borne E&E, then don't bother with food that must be extensively cooked, like dried beans and rice, which the DEAD OPPOSITE of what make sense to store well in advance of need in a fixed retreat.

If you are di-di'ing, then load up on water (but not more than you can carry) and something like trail mix, raisins, nuts and other high calorie-to-weight stuff. If you are stocking your hidey-hole, then other foods make sense, like oatmeal, dried beans, rice, ramen noodles, bullion (Note: Bullion does a great job of flavoring what would be almost inedibly bland, or tainted by the taste of the water), salt, pepper and other non-perishable stuff. Keep in mind that you may have guests at the residence (remember Preacherman's story?) and stock way more than your immediate needs. It's cheap insurance.

Regarding storage food, don't go too far astray from what you're already accustomed to eating. Rice, beans and peas, pastas are familiar to most of us. Bulgher (sp?), cracked wheat cereals, and much of what is commonly sold as storage food might not be adopted under austere and stressful circumstances. Not to be crude, but it might tax the available sanitary systems. If you plan to store these, learn to cook, eat, and enjoy them BEFORE you bet your life on them.

Again, to address the premise: Don't be that guy. It's too cheap, and too easily available prior to the emergency, to put this off. Just the opposite is true after TSHTF. Just be sure to have some of the bug-out chow ready to go. You don't want to go scrounging thru the pantry while the water is literally rising around your ankles.

[vrwc]

Tuna pouches are light ant waterproof lots of protien
PB is prob the most calorie dense for weight that i know of

[Cosmoline]

Sardines beat tuna completely when it comes to survival food essentials. They are dense with key vitamins and minerals, have a fantastically long shelf life, and offer both fat and protein. Canned tuna is very low in fat and has far fewer vitamins. It's a good food for staying thin, but esp. without mayo to bolster it, the stuff will not keep you warm and alive.

[Lucky]

A lot of people mention Ramen noodles, are these like Ichiban?

Also, I remember now from Ancient Civilizations class that civilizations have grown up around CORN BEANS and SQUASH. You put a few of all 3 seeds into a mound of dirt, and they grow together. The beans grow up the corn stalk, and the squash has big irritating leaves that keep animals away. And it's also a balanced diet!

I guess I'll get some of these seads since they're all on sale now.

How do you guys feel about eating animal organs? I like liver, liver tastes good, but if you eat the liver of an animal that is poisoned, don't you eat all the poisons?

[Cosmoline]

The liver is an excellent way of determining the health of an animal. In my experience, the ones that have been eating nasty things or have got sick will have nasty looking livers. The liver should be free from spots and appear moist and full, not thin, dried out or pale. As far as I know, toxins are not kept in the liver of a healthy animal but rather cleaned out of the blood there and sent to be excreted. In a healthy animal the liver should have a storepile of nutrients and vitamins. I've seen hare livers that look good enough to eat raw (I believe some do--I'm not that hard-core), and some others that are just nasty.

[Malamute]

"Just a note--I've found jerky far too salty for situations when you're trying to conserve water. Kipper snacks seem to be less "thirsty" as a food."



The "jerky" sold in stores is a snack food, and often heavily spiced. Traditional style home made jerky is just dried meat, nothing else, and is bland. At least the jerky I made was this way, some people spice it, and have the same problem as store bought jerky. If making it as a food source, instead of a snack food, leave out the spices. It can be eaten as is, or dropped in water for a stew base or soup,(it reconsitutes somewhat into meat again). It's very light weight also.

[Lucky]

Interesting about the liver, until I learn what good and bad look like though, it'll probably be dog food for whatever dog is around.

About jerky, it's really good when you add a good dose of ketchup (mostly sugar) with teriyaki sauce and bbq sauce and smoke sauce. Or smoky bbq sauce, or smoky teriyaki bbq sauce. You take the roast, slice it thin, then kneed the slices around in the sauce until they're coverd, and let them marinate overnight. Then slap on dehydrator and wait.

[CAnnoneer]

Heh.
You'll eat what you can find, and you WILL like it!
Duh.

:D

[RyanM]

On liver, you may need to be very careful about what animals' livers you eat. Some species can build up toxic levels of vitamin A. Only one I know of is doggies, though. From what I've read, people have died of vit A poisoning, from eating their sled dogs' livers.

[Cosmoline]

That's a good point about Vitamin A, though I think the specific problem was in polar animals like Polar Bear and in sled dogs living in those conditions. Wilkpedia says Xavier Mertz died from an overdose after eating too many dog livers on an Anarctic expedition, though I know Nansen and Johansen did very well eating polar bears and sled dogs. Maybe the rules don't apply to Norwegians :D My bet is they knew enough to not touch the livers. Here's an interesting chart I found comparing Vitamin A amounts:

http://members.tripod.com/~Prof_Anil_Aggrawal/poiso032.html

In contrast look at the vitamin A contents of the livers of some common animals living in the polar regions in the following table. For comparison, I have also given the vitamin A content of the human liver. As you can see, most animals, especially the polar bear have very high amounts of Vitamin A in their livers. Common name Zoological name Vitamin A content of the liver
in International Units (I.U.)
per gm of specimen

Weddel Seal Leptonychotes weddelli 444
Man Homo sapiens 575
Southern Elephant Seal Mirounga leonina 1,160
Antarctic huskies Canis familiaris 10,570
Arctic bearded seal Erignathus barbatus 12,000-14,000
Polar bear Thalarctos maritimus 24,000-35,000

Apparently, cod liver oil is OK, but you have to watch out for the more intense halibut liver oil.

[sigstroker]

Hormel Chili. It's reasonable even when cold. Beef stew is nasty unless it's heated. The chili comes in lightweight cardboard boxes that pack well with no wasted space, unlike cans.

[John G]

Nothing's got a shelf life like pure, old-fashioned honey. It's good in tea, oatmeal, or on bread or crackers. Plus it beats sugar by a longshot.

[brerrabbit]

What about whole grain animal feeds such as corn, rolled oats, barley etc. They may not be very tasty but are loaded to the gills with carbs and fiber, and even a bit of protein. As a bonus they are incredibly cheap, I think corn was going for 12 bucks a hundred weight last I time I bought some. I would think they would definately provide a decent diet, especially if supplemented with a bit of game and other more expensive stored food.

Back when I was a kid, I knew a few families that regularly cooked feed corn as a meal, usually with salt port.

Not sure if I would touch the creep feed, but it does look and smell amazingly close to a popular breakfast cereal put out a few years ago.

[LAK]

What John G said.

Yep; honey (and or dried fruit) will take the blandness out of oatmeal etc. I like "raw" unheated honey best.
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http://ssunitedstates.org

[thunder]

Does anyone know the actual shelf life of Ramen Noodles? Checked the product and no luck, then all I could find on the net was 'a long time'. Any input?

[phantomak47]

In college , I had ramen around for years and it tasted the same from the day that I bought it.

[Steam dragon]

Thunder,
I may be wrong, but I think the shelf life test is still ongoing...

Had some last night, bought in '97

Was fine.

[Sindawe]

Honey can also be used as a topical antiseptic on wounds if other antibiotics are not available.

Cautionary note: Do not feed honey to children under 12 months of age.

For a child under twelve months of age, there is a risk of botulism from eating honey and it should be avoided. The spores of the Clostridium botulinum bacteria can be found in honey, and when ingested by an infant, the spores can release a toxin that causes botulism.

In long term situations, honey can be mixed with water and fermented, making the water "safe" much as wine and beer are. The advantage there is that the end product (Mead) from amateur brewers is often much more palatable than their beers.

[Cosmoline]

Does anyone know the actual shelf life of Ramen Noodles?

I believe they found several bulk packs of ramen in that Chinese site with all the clay warriors. :D

[WT]

coyhl - not at all. I remember 'those guys' going out on patrol for long periods and surviving very well with a roll of rice strung across their shoulders.

Mixed with cooked dog or snake it lasts a long time. In NO they could probably use alligator.

'Those guys' had a pretty functional uniform for hot, humid weather and wet conditions - pretty similar to what is in NO now.

[Mannlicher]

we did three + days here in Miami with no electric when Katrina passed through. We ate what had thawed from the freezer, and the fresh fruit. Never did touch any of the 'hurricane supplies'
I stock up each spring, and keep the emergency stuff boxed and set aside from the regular pantry items. After Hurricane season passes in November, we use those supplies up, and then start all over again in April.
A Coleman gas stove is nice to have, and a gallon of Coleman gas cooks quite a few meals.

[YammyMonkey]

My thoughs on food:

SPAM, the flavoring packets from Ramen, most canned anything not fruit and bullion have a lot of salt, not good if you're in a dry &/or hot environment &/or working and sweating a lot. Might be good though once you're settled in and have a decent water source.

I would think that one of those vacuum sealer deals would be ideal for packing food. Those bags weigh a lot less than your average can, will pack much easier and you can punch a hole or two in the top of the bag, stick it in a pot of hot water and cook your soups, stews, etc... like that. You'll have a handy container and you'll waste less water washing dishes. You can also cook things in the cans they come in, but again you're dealing with more pack weight and it'll be harder to conceal your trash than empty vac-seal bags. The empty bags can also be used for covering a open chest wound that involves a punctured lung (pneumo thorax).

Might want to consider the "instant" foods as well like the Uncle Ben's rice packets, flavored oatmeals and things like powdered milk and potatoes. Less cook time means less down time for you and the reduced weight and space mean more food/gear/water/etc... Down side is that some of those things take more water than the "regular" version, but then again, some take a LOT less.

Coffee is both a diuretic and can have a laxative effect on some people. Not bad if you keep it tamed with a healthy consuption of water and it could help even you out if you're consuming mostly MRE's or similarly "clogging" foods, but something to keep in mind. Moderate consumption is probably OK, but some people drink coffee from the time they wake up until they pack it in for the night, that could create a lot of issues for you if you're on the run, especially if you're having to drastically cut back on your consumption (caffeine withdrawls can be kinda nasty).

One thing to keep in mind is the physical and mental effects some foods/drinks can have on you. Use these to your advantage. Running out of steam for that last little push? Grab the container of Folger's Crystals, munch down a few ounces and get moving. Morale dropping? Pass out some chocolate or candy. Mouth getting dry and throat sore? Grab a couple Jolly Ranchers. Getting colder than you should be after a hard day? Throw down some high carb/high fat content food and you'll warm up.

Old news, but eat before you're hungry and drink before you're thirsty. Even if you're just taking sips and bites every 10-15 minutes it'll keep you going much better than sitting down for "3 squares" a day while you're on the move.

[Lucky]

Most important rule I heard is NEVER EAT WITHOUT DRINKING WATER. It's emphasized by many people, starting with camp councellors and I saw it in a military manual on survival.

Can anyone explain how it works better, besides 'you'll get cramps'?

[Scottmkiv]

Your body uses water to digest food. If you eat food when you are already low on water, then you may end up with serious dehydration problems. In a survival situation, water is a lot more important than food, so you shouldn't deplete your bodies supply of water unless you can replace it.