Malinois

[bratch]

I adopted a 2 year old Malinois a couple weeks ago to keep my Border Collie company. You guys forgot to inform me they are quite the lovers. He stays attached to me and wants in my lap if I'd let him.

If I get a attacked by trucks in the alley, motorcycles, rice burners, or bass-mobiles I'll be safe.

[Hardware]

That's the best sort of dog in my book. I love dogs that lean into you when you pet them. I have to chase my dog off the couch if my honey wants to snuggle with me. :) As long as your Malinois and your Border Collie get along, you're all set. Good Luck!

[bratch]

Its taken about 2 and a half weeks for them to adjust to each other. He(Mal) tried to play with her towards the end of the frst week but she would have nothing to do with it and would jump all over him. They have recent started playing alot so my house is a war zone now with a Mal chasing a BC and wrestling and chewing on each other all the time. :what:

[mrshish]

I have had my Malinois for 4 years now and he's really part of the family. They are extremely affectionate, extremely smart, and extremely protective. Just they other day my girlfriend took him on a walk. They went by a park where some other dogs where off leash playing. Instead of running off to play he sat next to her and watched. If a person or another dog approached he would slowly move in between her and them. He wouldn’t bark or anything just moved to protect her.

Right now he’s lying at my feet while I surf. It’s amazing how attached they are as that bond becomes strong. I’m sure you will love the breed as much as I do.

[Optical Serenity]

Lets see some pictures!!!

[bratch]

Old thread but now with pics:)
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=12/35523014336.jpg&s=x12
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7100173673.jpg&s=x10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7100134726.jpg&s=x10

[Optical Serenity]

awww, that is the cutest puppy in the world! Well, my dog is naturaly, but that malinois is awesome!

I wish I could find one around here...How does he do inside the house?

[bratch]

Indoors he is calm. He spends alot of the day just laying around. Right now he is stretched out on my pillow asleep. The only time it gets very bad is when there is something in the alley he wants. He will jump up and bounce off of the patio doors. Every now and then he'll get an energy boost and run around but not too often.

Outside is a different story. He is quite abit more agressive and will spend 8-12 hours chasing people in the alley.

I found him through the Malinois Rescue. They have chapters all over the country if you are serious about getting one.

[Optical Serenity]

Excellent I'll look them up. Thank you. And please do share more pictures.

[jfruser]

Fine looking dogs. I'm glad your rescue is working out.

High-energy & intelligence dogs need another dog to hang out with.

[dfaugh]

To those who might consider a Malinois as a pet:

I've trained for Schutzhund Sport for many years and seen/known quite a few Malinois.
They can be GREAT dogs, for pets and general personal protection, BUT they're not for everyone. But I've seen many, that while they were great working dogs, would NOT make good pets (got the scars to prove it).

These are usually VERY high energy dogs (they've been bred that way), and as such, they don't always make the best pets, at least for some people. You won't find many Malinois that are willing to be "couch potatoes"! Their need to "keep busy" can be seen as a behavior problem, if you don't understand their temperament.

In Europe they are routinely used as police dogs, and can be tough SOBs, and more than the average person is capable of handling. It can take an experienced dog handler to get the most of a Malinois. In fact, in Europe, they are often "crossed" with other breeds to "mellow" them out.

Having said all that, if you get the right one they are a great breed, loyal, trustworthy and protective. They also have a long life-span which is nice.

[Cosmoline]

Very nice dog. The Malinois have not been ruined like the AKC Shepherds or DP's. Hopefully they never will be.

I recognize this look. I always called it the "slippy seal" look because it was a sign the dog was about to be silly. Ears back doesn't always mean aggression.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=37039&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1142231092

[bratch]

I think it was more the look of "You woke me up to take my picture and you aren't going to feed me. You suck"

He does enjoying having something to do I think patrolling the alley is his release. They can find something to do if they aren't getting enough attention do to school. What they find usually involves socks and boxers.

One thing I'm not sure if its the breed or just mine but he doesn't listen very well to other people. He listens to my commands but ignores anyone else.

[Sharpdogs]

Do the Malinois shed a lot? I love the personality of my German Shephard but the shedding is unbelievable.

[bratch]

He shed some over the fall and winter this will be my first summer to see how he foes. I probbly don't brush him enough and that no doubt adds to it.

[ACP]

Nice looking dog.

I have two experiences with Malinois:

1. A Secret Service Malinois sniffing me and my tape recorder when I attended an event many years ago that featured the vice president (Gore);

2. A dog show where a Malinois scaled an 8-foot high vertical wooden wall. That was quite a sight.

[bratch]

There was a squirel running across the top of my 6 foot stockade fence. He was stalking the squirel and took off after it, at the corner he jumped, his head and front legs were over my 6 foot fence.

The rescue I got him from had pictures of another Mal jumping up and getting her toys off the top of the refridgerator.

Here is a link to working Mals in France.
http://www.sparta.cn/dl.php?fn=policedog.wmv&watch=1

[distra]

My neighbor in Houston was a Harris County Deputy and had a beautiful Malinois. He was credited with many drug busts and street bites. He had a nasty habit of getting out of his kennel though...even when it had a lid and was locked :what: Hated thunderstorms and would get out of that kennel in 10 seconds. I'm very partial to the GSD. I have dark sable East German/Czech blood lines. Check her out...ain't she pretty. Good luck with the Mal. Like any working dog, you gotta' keep them busy.:)

http://images6.theimagehosting.com/DSC_0464_small.jpg (http://www.theimagehosting.com)

[Cosmoline]

That's a beautiful GSD. The one I have now has East German on his mother's side. He's the most marvelous mix of goofiness and ferocity.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/Gussick/gheee.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/Gussick/CohenHandBAug2004Pic2LG.jpg

[distra]

What a hansom guy. They are fun! I've purchased several of Leerburg videos on training etc and love to see them "work". He looks like he has some red in his coat. Mine is Kong nuts! She'll chase that Kong-on-a-rope all day. I agree with Hardware's sig. :D

[Sgt Stevo]

I have mal from a breeeder in upstate New york. I got him trained at Cooperhaus in san Jose. Baden k-9 is were he is from.

he is great. Sweet with my 3 year old girl, and hard as hell on the training field.
he is 14 months old. And does off lead protection, searches, etc.

I have had and trained a lot of dogs and this is the best. I recommend Baden highly.

[LeonCarr]

Great thread...I want one.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Sgt Stevo]

Just search for baden K-9 on google. Being just this side of retarded I cant seem to pull off putting the thread on this forum. sorry.

the owners are a married couple. call the number of the husband, as he is more likely to respond in good time.

You will be impressed with them. And all the PD and gov, including outside govs they supply.

Phone is 905-562-3015. Tell them Steve in campbell referred you.

[riverdog]

http://www.badenk9.com/

[bratch]

Steve any recommendations on books or DVDs for doing working with my Mal?

[Sgt Stevo]

The malinois by Jan Kaldenbach, Find a local dog club.

Clubs are a lot less money then private trainers, and they have good agitators most the time.

I club will cost $30. A month. Were I train, $50 an hour. Or $3,500 to protection train your dog. Or $5,000 for a dog that is started.

I can almost be sure there is a club in your area.....

If you have any problems, PM me.........And thanks for the link dude..

[distra]

One of THE best training resources for K-9's of all breeds.
http://www.leerburg.com/
Ed's a little blunt sometimes and has his own forum, but his advise is sound and proven. I have several DVD's on training from and Ed's site has many resources for dealing with "problem" dogs i.e. dominant dogs, handler aggressive, etc. He also has a great Bernard Flinks video on "Training Drive and Focus". I have used these training tips on my GSD and while she is a bit high energy, she behaves better than most (if not all) kids I know. Now if these techniques only worked on my wife...:evil:

[NineseveN]

I'll take 2! :D

[Sgt Stevo]

it depends on what you want a dog for. If you buy and train the right dog. YOu wont have to worry about handler aggression and whatever.

My dog is trained to take out anyone who I deem a threat. Sounds harsh, but he will not bite unless told to. he is trained as well most police dogs in this regard.

This thread is not about dogs who pee on the carpet. it is about ways to protect yourself and your family.

Like with guns, you get what you pay for. a lot of ther dogs who people bring to Cooperhaus, we will not train. For many reasons. Mostly they are not stable. Or are weak.

Go to club, people who sell video tapes, dvds or whatever are not there to teach you how to handle your dog. it would be like learning to shoot on the X-box........

[distra]

Sgt, I agree a club is nice environment, but one must very careful in choosing one. Just like guns clubs, dog clubs can be clichish and filled with people who have forced trained their dogs. If you want a protection dog then you should go to a Schutzhund club. They will help you with experienced helpers etc. However, I don't think dog clubs are the only way to train a dog. Doing the research and even talking with Ed certain will not hurt. It's not like learning to shoot on an Xbox...hey...wait a minute doesn't the military train with high tech virtual reality rooms? I'm sure they do. :D The information gained from the training videos is good stuff. And yes, even trained dogs can be dominant and handler aggressive for various reasons including unknown medical issues. It always good to be equiped with some knowledge to handle this situation. From the initial post, it doesn't look like batch wants the malonois for protection.

[riverdog]

A lot of dogs which are considered "pet quality" really aren't because they have bad nerves. Some dogs are scared and it doesn't matter if the perp is a real bad guy or a high energy 5 year old kid. The same good nerves/stable temperment that are needed for a dog to be a good SAR dog are needed in a dog that will be around children. All dogs need good nerves regardless of what they'll be doing.

Nerves are one thing, drives/motivations are another. From what I've heard, Malinois generally have good nerves, but they're drives are a bit skewed from what would be good to have around children. It probably varies from dog to dog, but as good a lover a Mal might be toward one person, that same dog may not be good around kids. Prey drive is really difficult to hold back. Food in a kid's hand? OTOH some lines of GSD are good around children -- their drives are more balanced and they aren't as high energy. There's a reason the Malinois have such an organized Rescue (http://www.malinoisrescue.org/) group. Most folks can't handle the drives.

Best dog I ever had around kids was a retriever mix that had just a touch of Rottweiler (1/2 Golden, 1/4 Lab, 1/4 Rott). Looked like a Chocolate Lab with a slightly blockish head. Great dog, gentle but tough as nails.

IMO, $.02

germanshepherds.com (http://www.germanshepherds.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php) is a good forum for talking strictly dogs. GSD's rule, but I'm sure they talk Malinois also.

[Cosmoline]

One of the good things about malinois is they haven't yet been destroyed by the AKC. You have to be *VERY* careful when shopping for a GSD that you don't get one of the American-line "shepherds." They're usually easy to spot. They tend to have a lower hind end, sometimes to the point that they appear to be walking on their haunches. Their back tends to be a straight angle down towards the ground, whereas a working line will tend to have a strong arch in the lower back which literally functions as a huge spring. Working line heads tend to be more massive, often with a "bearish" look to them. You will never find white working line GSD's, and their colors are usually strong B&T or sable not the washed out tans and whites you find on American line dogs. They also tend to be much more muscular in profile, whereas the AKC dogs appear oddly thin. Both lines can have hip problems, but they are much more serious with AKC shepherds. In proper working line breeding, dogs are forbidden from being bred if their hip x-rays don't pass OFA muster.

To understand how this happened, you have to understand the politics of post-WWII GSD breeding. The war annihilated something like 80% of the good breeding stock in Germany and central Europe. Towards the end of the war the German Army was coming in and cleaning out kennels with no regard for the future of the breed. The attrition rate of the dogs as the war heated up was very high.

The surviving GSD lines in the US and England were pretty meager, made up of a mix of second rate stock and "bringback" dogs. Added to this, owning one of "Hitler's dogs" was hardly PC. So an effort was made to change the definition of the breed. Many took to calling them "alsatians." The strict old rules established to keep the breed healthy were discarded as too draconian and too "German." Plus breeders sought to change the appearance of the breed to something less scary.

The good news is our Cold War enemies did a much better job of preserving the breed than we did. After the fall of the wall, a lot of really excellent stock from the Czechs and others was open for breeding. If you're serious about getting a GSD, get one from a WORKING LINE kennel and stay well away from anyone claiming to be selling "AKC Shepherds."

Do not be afraid to get a smaller GSD bitch from working lines, in the 50 to 60 lb. range. These have been the most effective guard dogs I've ever seen. They're distracted less easily than the males, and you're a fool if you judge by their size. They can leap higher than a man's head and their lighter weight means fewer hip and joint problems. To give you an example, my buddy Cohen will sometimes sleep right through nighttime noises, snoring away. When he's triggered he's lethal, but the males just seem to be less aware and sometimes a little less seirous. The bitches, perhaps because of their maternal instincts, are hyper-aware of their surroundings and very protective.

[riverdog]

Cosmoline,
I agree with your last post. American line dogs can also run a little bigger and (IMO) less athletic. Nerves can be a problem too as many were bred for other than temperment. They can be good family pets, but some aren't as reliable as they should be. They are not in the same class as the Euro-GSD working dogs. The east German working lines are probably the closest to the old breed standard. Nerve, drives, size, intelligence -- breeding good working line dogs is a balancing act and American GSD's are skewed away from work. Some were actually bred for that slope you and I and many others think is just wrong. My opinion, owners of American GSD's will strongly disagree.

I visited a working line breeder a few years ago and she let one of her males out to play -- beautiful animal, he was in my face checking me out before I could react. Very nice dog though settled right down. He was Sch 1, the females were Sch II and III, I didn't get any "face" time with them.

[bratch]

On the male/female note. My dogs respond to different stimuli. Its usually only one who barks at something and they both have their little tics as to what they bark at. I can usually tell why Prince is barking but usually can't tell what Brooke is barking at. It is a rare occurance that they are both barking at the same time but it usually gets my attention when they do.

[distra]

+1 on the females being more attentive. Mine doesn't let our son get too far out her sights. She keeps a close eye on him especially now that he is walking. :D It's a funny thing, if we are all out on a walk she will sniff the side of the road checking things out etc. But if it just mom, the boy and her she doesn't leave my wife's side. He ears are at attention the whole time and every few minutes she sticks her nose into the stroller to check on the little guy. I couldn't ask for a better dog. As for size and breeding females, I agree I'd take a 60lb East German or Czech over any American line dog. I hate the hind slope. :barf: Our girl is about 75lbs and that's all the heavier I want her to get. Her focuss is amazing! I have held her kong-on-rope up in front of her while my son crawls all over her and she will not move a muscle until I give her the toy. This is a great training method by the way. Food works well, but once the dog gets interested in a toy it great a great training tool and so fun to watch them play!

[riverdog]

distra,
Is that a Leerburg GSD?

[dfaugh]

We've strayed a bit OT but here's my .02, based on 12 years of raising/breeding/training GSDs (Schutzhund sport)

One of the good things about malinois is they haven't yet been destroyed by the AKC. You have to be *VERY* careful when shopping for a GSD that you don't get one of the American-line "shepherds."

The first dog I ever tried to train for Schutzhund Sport, was an American (for several generations) dog...people said he'd never do the work, but he did, and very well...He died a few months ago, but was my "one in a million" dog, I know I'll never have another that can compare.

HOWEVER, he was very much the exception for American GSDs. They've been totally ruined by the AKC standards and poor breeding practices. The good news is, over the past several years, many, many European GSDs have been imported, and are being bred. Now, I work with trainers in Germany (and elsewhere), and even they are starting to disparage some of the German Line dogs. In germany, there are almost 2 seperate breeds, show dogs and working dogs. The show dog have little working ability (there are exceptions) or intelligence for that matter, and some of the working lines are a little "Over-the-top" (I have one of these, that I quit trying to train for sport, she's WAY too "serious").

Most of the nicest GSDs, and many of the ones you see in Schutzhund competition and police work are Czech. My prized competition dog(now retired), as well as the dog that got me interested in Schutzhund Sport are both Czech dogs, as are the dogs of many of my friends that compete. Any of these dogs would get thrown out of the show ring in the U.S or Germany. But they are what we call "clear in the head". For example, my 100 lb. male will gladly let you into the house, and make a big fuss, trying to get you to play with him. (All humans were put on the earth to play with Johnny!)...However, were you to make an aggressive/hostile move to me or my kids...well, its gonna get UGLY real fast.

As far as training, I agree that the best place to look is the nearest Schutzhund club, as you will find some of the most experienced people there. HOWEVER, having trained with people from all over North America, and Europe, there's are some pretty poor trainers out there, and many have built undeserved reputations as "experts" (usually beacuse they've bought a really good dog, and done well in competition). Many are very good but only have "one way" of training a dog, and they've done well, but only because they only train dogs that suit their style of training.

Another thing to consider, is that if the dog has undergone "formal" protection training, and it ever bites someone, you've got a legal mess, as the dog has been "trained to bite"(BTDT). Doesn't matter that a properly trained dog is probably LESS likely to bite, unless it needs to, people don't understand this. I've had many,many people want me to train dogs for them, but I don't want the responsibility. The good news is a GSD (Or Malinois) with the proper temperament, doesn't really need training. If they are "clear in the head" they will naturally respond to a threat appropriately. The difficulty is with and inexperienced person trying to selct this type of dog, but a really good breeder will help you get a dog suitable to your needs. Note that, as with most things, you get what what you pay for. If you're buying a dog for $200-300, well its probably not what you want. A quality dog from a reputable breeder is gonna cost at least $800. Also, most of the breeders (including myself) don't sell puppies when they are 7 or 8 weeks old...Its difficult (although I'm pretty good at it) to tell their temperament at that age. I prefer to wait until 11-12 weeks, then I have a much better idea of their temperament. Also, this allows me to get them properly socialized, and through their initial fear period.

Well, I'm rambling, but I hope I've educated, a bit here.

[Cosmoline]

One further note for clarification--in the US the AKC has a de facto monopoly on title registration for purebreds. So you will often find that even working line European GSD's are sold with AKC papers. This does NOT mean they are AKC GSD's.

I've seen the title papers from various European nations on GSD's. They tend to be many pages long with an array of official certificatons from hips to training and include a full pedigree. The AKC's papers are a joke in comparison, and really mean nothing. There have been efforts to create a standardized US system for getting title for working line GSD's stateside, but so far they haven't caught on. Think of the AKC papers as DMV papers. Having them doesn't mean the dog is anything more than a broken down old disaster, or even that the dog exists anymore. But you can't operate without them.

[distra]

riverdog, No she is out of Von Hena C kennel Pam Lake in NH. Good reputation for working dogs and breeds for health mainly. Our girl was a cross between Ako and Yves from Pam's kennel. Leerburg dogs are great, but it's quite the haul for us to pick one up. I really don't like the idea of flying with the pup.