Carry without a CCW?...


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Kaxter
March 25, 2003, 11:43 PM
Well here in the peoples republic of missouri we arnt allowed to carry. Well today I came very close to getting stabbed on my route and now I am wanting to carry even though it is forbidden. I barely got away today and now I have to do the same route tomarrow and I just dont think i can bring myself to do it unarmed. I was wondering what penalty I would get if I was caught carrying a consealed loaded weapon. Is it a misdemeanor or a felony and am I looking at jail time? If it's just a fine and they take my 600 dollar gun im ok with that....its cheaper than a funeral. Any advice would be greatly appriciated.

*edit* I put this in the wrong forum and cant move it now, sorry:(

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Zundfolge
March 26, 2003, 12:40 AM
I used to live in Kansas so I understand your plight.


In Kansas carrying a concealed firearm is a misdemeanor, so you might want to look into what it is in Missouri.

I would never recommend that one break the law ... however there are many who would rather be "judged by 12 then carried by 6"


If you want to get involved with changing the law in Missouri, get with these people: http://www.missouricarry.com/
(they seem to be endorsed by Runt too :) )

Mizzoutiger
March 26, 2003, 12:47 AM
At least it may be less suck here pretty soon.

Just curious, what region are we talking about? I know walking around downtown columbia gets me pretty creeped. The bums on the street tend to prey on us college students. I generally carry some change in my pocket to get them to STFU, but sometimes I get caught without anything to pay off the buggers. They always get a little testy after that. Just can't wait til MO gets CCW. I'll get to leave the quarters at home.

Kaxter
March 26, 2003, 12:53 AM
Im in Joplin. Usually Joplin isn't bad at all, but I was downtown and at about 3:00am at the beggining of my route and a guy tried to rob me. It was a scary experiance.

yankytrash
March 26, 2003, 01:15 AM
If you absolutely have to carry against the law, please make sure to remember that that $600 gun doesn't settle arguments, and won't get you out of trouble faster than a good pair of runnin shoes. I hate to advocate "turnin tail", but in your location you'll set back gun ownership/carry back 20 years if you illegally use a gun now.

The carry of the pistol is a misdemeanor. Using it is borderline premeditated murder, or at least assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder, among other charges. You need to be absolutely sure you need to use it before you do, or you'll be better off dead anyway. I've spent a little stay in the concrete motel before, and I couldn't imagine having to stay there my entire life, or even 10 years straight for that matter.

Stab wounds heal, even in multiples. The emotional scar of the stay in a real penitentiary, like the one you'll be visiting if you use a gun illegally in your state, will not. It doesn't matter if you're "the man" in your cellblock, or how many friends you might have in that hellhole, it is still like some kinda hazy nightmare with no end. Everyday you'll wake up to loud sound of the bars unlocking, to the sight of the aquamarine ceiling, to feel of a thousand men's grimey paws' sweat build-up on your steel bunk, on the floor, on the bars, on the doors. You can't escape it, it's a total depression that you have to live through, by yourself and on your own, every - single - day. Every night you'll get to be lulled asleep by screaming men who refuse to sleep so that they might sleep all day, everyday, when you're not chipping layers of paint off the bars, you get to spend your every waking moment avoiding eye contact for the fear that you'll look at the wrong man in the eye, and he might decide to pluck them out with a sharpened stolen fork for ya. Well, at least you won't have to worry then, because you'll be in the infirmary. At least in the infirmary you can sleep. Sleep is always nice. It lets you forget where you really are.

This is an awful thing to say, but your life isn't worth it. If a man pulls a knife, grab the knifeblade, he won't expect that, and gouge out his right eyeball with your fingernails. What are you risking, a few cuts? Believe me, this ain't like TV tells ya, people don't die in 2 seconds from a knife wound. Hell, I once walked right into an emergency room with a 5" Buck knife stuck in my right side. They made me have a seat and fill out the paperwork before they'd see me, if that tells you how much to worry about a knife wound. Still got that knife as a matter of fact.

But at least that'd be considered self-defense in most communist courts. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

beemerb
March 26, 2003, 01:26 AM
This is something that you must make your own mind up on.I Live in AZ and have a AZ CCW.I went back to MN in July to visit 2 of my brothers.I carried a kel tec P 32 from the time I left till the time I came back.In MN I would have been charged with a felony if caught.I decided it was worth the risk.I walk with a cane and running is out of the question for me. I weighed the pro's and con's and made my mind up.If you think it is worth the possable problems then carry.
If you are young and in good condition running might be the better choice.Or carry a walking stick and learn to use it.Legal and you have longer reach then a knife has.
Good luck on whatever you decide to do.
bob

Blackhawk
March 26, 2003, 01:27 AM
Well said, yankytrash! :what:

firestar
March 26, 2003, 02:02 AM
I can't tell you what to do but if I felt my life was in danger, I would break that law to protect myself. I have never really been the victim of a violent act yet I carry a gun all the time. I am not paranoid, I just look at it as something that might be handy to have in an emergency. I can legally carry so I don't have to make that tough decision.

I hope if you do decide to carry, you never get caught and you never need to use it. OTOH, if you do need to use it, you will be glad to have it.

I live in IN. and I have little reason to expect that I will ever have to use my gun but when I go to Chicago, I leave my gun at home because it is illegal to carry in that city. I think it is more likly that I would need it in Chicago than in my home town but I don't want to go to jail either.

You have to make the choice.

chevrofreak
March 26, 2003, 02:40 AM
if your life is in danger, you have a right to protect it, no matter what laws you break

its better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

it also helps if you have a good lawyer

chris93473
March 26, 2003, 04:16 AM
i kinda have to agree what yanktrash is saying. i know this sound really bad and you will probably disagree but, being tried by 12 rather than being carried by six is like saying yea i may be alive but i'm suffering in jail. and once you end up getting out of that hell hole the rest of your life is pretty much over. y bother even living ? there are people who did get caught with a firearm in a non ccw state but manage to get out of going to jail or really shorten their sentence. but those particular have millions of dollars. i live in illinois and it sucks to not carry legally. i thought about carrying alot but then again i always think of the consequences if i get caught. well sooner or later i'm gonna move out anyways so i can carry hear that richie daley you damn rat.

Steel
March 26, 2003, 09:15 AM
I am no lawyer, so I don't understand all the subtle nuances of lawsuites, but I would love to see in circumstances like this, where there was a preemptive lawsuit against the state by an individual or as a class action. They could sue The Man on the grounds that their life in in danger, that they fear for their life, and that they are not allowed to exercise their right to protection, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness....or something to that effect! After all, the Supreme Court rules that police cannot necessarily be expected to protect the individual, but rather be there for society as a whole.

Am I screwed in the head?

brownie0486
March 26, 2003, 09:49 AM
yankytrash:

Grab the knife blade? I would hope the perp didn't expect that.

No one with any sense at all would purposely grab a live blade being presented in a fight. Best way to lose all your fingers I've ever heard.

Statistics complied by the FBI through the uniform crime forms all depts complete and send to the feds show that 8 of 10 stab victims die while 6 0f 10 gun victims die.

That you were fortunate enough to have survived a stab to the side is good, but to state that knife stabs are not serious borders on the edge of common sense. Not worry about knife wounds?

You may choose to ignore the facts based on your personal experience in being stuck but then we all read of people who have been stabbed who died before medical attention could save them from the reaper.

Knife attacks/wounds are more deadly than gun wounds by 20% statistically on the streets of the USA. Based on your recommendation to grab the blade I wonder if you would grab the gun and let him shoot you while you gouged an eye out as well? Afterall, the gun is less lethal than a knife so take the shot and carry on with your defensive gouging?

Brownie

pax
March 26, 2003, 09:55 AM
Please allow me to interrupt for a moment.

I would gently remind the membership that 1. stating that you commit felonies on a public BB is not a very wise course of action and 2. advising others to break the law is not permitted on THR.

The laws do vary from state to state, and it is possible that these caveats do not apply to you or to this discussion. If so, that is fine. Chalk this post up to an overabundance of caution and please continue. If these caveats do apply, however, please do heed them.

It is okay to discuss what the law is and what might happen to you if the law is broken; it is not okay to advocate breaking the law.

With this in mind, carry on.

pax

I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Carlos Cabeza
March 26, 2003, 09:59 AM
I have always said I'd rather be shot than stabbed............
Thanks for pointing out the stats.....

jsalcedo
March 26, 2003, 10:09 AM
If it comes down to saving your own life it would be worth
defending yourself by any means possible.

Are you really going to wait around for the police if you have to shoot a deranged mugger with a knife.

Chances are they will attribute it to gang violence.

If I'm not mistaken thugs with dozens of convictions don't get
high priority on the caseload.

Before CCW I've had some cops tell me its best to shoot the thug
and not stick around for the consequences.

Of course thats easy for them to say

Coronach
March 26, 2003, 10:12 AM
Well then. this thread lasted precisely two posts since Pax's warning.

To quote the Dawg: "Lights out."

Coronach

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