How well do you really shoot?


March 26, 2003, 05:04 AM
Be honest, how well do you really shoot at: 10, 15, 25 yards with your pistol. And what gun are you using. I ask because none of my gun books really tell me what I should be shooting. I have always had guns, but only recently started going to the range regularly.

My best shooting is:
4" groups @10 yards,
6" groups @15 yards,
8" groups @25 yards (Guessing here. I rarely set it this far).
Using Glock-17, Sistema Colt .45

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March 26, 2003, 05:15 AM
At over 25 yards I can shoot sub 4" groups with my Browning Hi-Power. I take my time and shoot from a concrete post kneeling down. I have removed the mag safety.

However the barrel and perhaps the frame is crooked (I've noticed some binding on the left side of the slide) on my particular model as I have the rear sight adjusted way to the right about as far as it will go to compensate for this.

I used to have a Beretta 92 that was even worse this way. It would shoot 3 inches left (and one inch low, this is normal for Beretta 92's) at about 7 yards. At 25 yards it wouldn't even hit the target post, it was quite embarrassing :rolleyes:


March 26, 2003, 07:25 AM
Handgun: ~4" group way low and left at about 5 yards (cant tell if its the beater 1911 I assembled myself or my shooting)
Rifle: 1" groups at 33 yards with a 3x32 scope on a Remington 597.

College kid with on-campus job = kid with lots of toys, but no time to use them or practice. :(


March 26, 2003, 08:16 AM
I have several times heard people use the term 'Minute-of-bad guy' around here, and that's how I would describe my accuracy...good enough. In an attempt to put up some numbers:

Ruger Mk II, 7 1/8" barrel: I have shot some 2 inch groups at 25 yards, that sitting and with a hand rest though. Closer to 4" free hand.

H&K USPf .40 S&W: Standing, I can shoot a 4" group at 10 yards, but most of my shooting is done at 25 yards, where I turn in an occasional 6" group, with a full magazine usually giving me an 8" group. Depends on if the first shot is DA or SA(I know...if I was really good, it wouldn't matter if it was DA or SA :neener: )

Ruger SP-101, 2 1/4" barrel: Haven't done any 25 yard shooting with this one. 7-10 yards mostly, and having heard the rumors about how inaccurate a snubby is, I am greatly impressed. 4 inch groups at POA with .38 or .357...strangly, with some 125gr .38 +P I was hitting about 5 inchs below POA.

March 26, 2003, 09:08 AM
Your question can be answered by a trip to the range, shooting NRA targets at the prescribed ranges on the target in the allotted time frame. These are the standards to which shooters have aspired both past and present. This was called gallery shooting at 50 feet and classification shooting at 25 and 50 yards for pistol and longer for the rifle, either rimfire or centerfire. Try it and see of you qualify as a marksman, sharpshooter, expert or (gasp) distingueshed expert. The NRA still has the protocal for the asking. Quantrill

Double Naught Spy
March 26, 2003, 09:13 AM
Minute of Bad Guy? LOL! I guess my similar statement would be that I a functional defensive shooter.

March 26, 2003, 09:18 AM
All rounds inside 10" out to 50 yds. If we are taking our time [ target shooting ], at 100 yds I can usually keep 8 of 10 inside that 10" criteria.

At 33 feet from the surrender position, 6 headshots in 4 seconds.

Been timed competing of course.

Group size has nothing to do with defensive pistol craft. Too many make the mistake of thinking their practicing accuracy until they can make little tiny groups makes them proficient with a pistol under stress/heat of the moment.

Practice your presentations and keep your shots inside 10". Go as fast as you can keeping that 10" criteria. When you are going too fast to keep inside that diameter, slow down until you re-aquire that goal.

March 26, 2003, 09:25 AM
Well, a year ago when I renewed my CCW license I scored a perfect 250 out of 250 using a P7M8.
The instructor told the other 30 people in the class "don't mess with this kid." :)
I use a 6" Anaconda for long range which can get good 6" groups at 25 years...maybe 10" if I've been drinking too much coffee :)
I am also quite good with my 4" Ruger MK2 since I've been shooting it regularly since I was about 6 years old.
With most any other handgun though, I am a pretty crappy shot.

March 26, 2003, 09:38 AM
My best day involved five consecutive 5-shot groups at 100 yards that averaged a little bit over 0.2" inches.

March 26, 2003, 09:43 AM
From my last 3 gun match against some pretty tough competition:

March 26, 2003, 10:17 AM
With my taurus 66 I can get under an inch at 15yards
and under 2inches at 25 with .38 special target handloads.

With the standard garbage ammo the groups double in size.

With my colt sistema I can do 1.5 inches at 15 yards and about 3 inches at 25 (because of the combat sights)

This is only with my handloads, factory ammo opens the groups up either due to more recoil or my gun not liking the loading.

March 26, 2003, 10:22 AM
bogie what kind of handgun were you using to get "five consecutive 5-shot groups at 100 yards that averaged a little bit over 0.2" inches"?

I think we'd all like to go buy one today :) LOL

BTW I only shoot with open sights. I don't like optics on pistols.

March 26, 2003, 10:30 AM
As honest as it gets.

I shot the thing with a Glock 26 drawn from a Blade-Tech IWB carried at 1 o'clock.


Failure to hit the bull's-eye is never the fault of the target. -- Gilbert Arland

March 26, 2003, 10:35 AM
Oops... Handgun?

Don't currently own any - that was with a Stolle Panda with a 6PPC barrel on it...

March 26, 2003, 10:43 AM
which can get good 6" groups at 25 years

Yeah, my best shooting was about 25 years ago, too. :)

March 26, 2003, 10:56 AM
With my USP I can consistently hit an 8" diameter steel plate 30 yards away.

In about 9 of every 10 tries, I'd hear that satisfying KLUNK!!!

But it gets boring really fast... :(

What I try to work on is my double tap skills. I'd be really happy if I could maintain a 2" gap at 5 yards or so, every time... :D

March 26, 2003, 12:39 PM
Between 2 and 3 inches at 25 yards off-hand. A little better if I'm taking it real slow. This with a CZ75B

March 26, 2003, 01:49 PM
my 59 year old eyes will let me. The last time I was at the range with my '43 Tikka Mosin Nagant I had a 10 shot group of 2 1/2 inches with 6 of them in a 1/2 center to center group. Think I will install a scout scope on this rifle.....chris3

March 26, 2003, 02:12 PM
It depends on what I'm doing... Most of my shooting recently has been steel plate (at 30' or so max) and IDPA...

I can put 6 rounds in COM of an IDPA target, from a holster draw in about 5.2seconds at 25' and usually get them all into the -0 zone at 50'... a DA revolver.. I can outshoot about 1/3 (or maybe 1/4 ;-) of the other pistol shooters at our Steel Plate fun shoots (only done that once so far) and they're mostly autos!

Good enough AFAIK...

March 26, 2003, 02:41 PM
Not bad up close. For example my last 5 rounds at the range Sunday from my Kimber Ultra CDP were all fired at the head. The first 4 cloverleafed at the bridge of the nose and the fifth hit 3/4 of an inch low. A group no more than 1 1/4 inches shot at 7 yards. Personally I was shocked since I usually have MORE flyers at the end of a session. I've tried this gun at 25 yards and it's disappointing, but since it's meant for self-defense, it doesn't bother me. I'm spending my time now at SD ranges. I can do the same with my Mark IV, but that gun is also much better at longer distances due to the longer barrel, usually 2-3 inches offhand if I can do my part. I used to be much better at various distances, but that was due to shooting upwards of 500 rounds a week, something I simply haven't the time for nowadays. I was also younger then.:D

March 26, 2003, 02:43 PM
in terms of groups - - -

best ever were as follows

<3" group, 10 shots, offhand, at 10 yds with Ruger P89DC (shooting 124gr +p EFMJ)

1.5" group, 10 shots, resting, at 45-50 yds with Ruger 10/22 (iron sights) shooting el cheapo Federal bulk .22LR

<2" group, 10 shots, offhand, at <>17 yds with Ruger MKII target shooting CCI Stingers.

I regularly shoot the two .22s that well. My typical groups with the nine at that range are closer to 4 inches.

Best "trick shot" I ever pulled off was plinking a spent 9mm casing with my 10/22 (offhand) at about 25 yds or so. Hit it with my first shot.

I consider myself an average shooter with handguns, and slightly below average with rifles (not as much practice)

Now that I have a Mauser, though, hopefully I'll start improving my long-range game.

March 26, 2003, 02:54 PM
When gunsmith pushes me on drills (like the other day) Best :

1911 OWB concealed (light jacket) 7-8 yds first shot on paper in 1.2 sec, 5 shot group inside a 3" post-it-note. (fire as fast as can)

Keltec P-11, IWB concealed (light jacket) 7-8yds on paper in .8 sec, 5 shot group 4shots inside 3" sq. post -it- note, 1 on edge (7 o'clock).again fire as fast as can .

Steel plates 8"
1911 8/8 @ 15yds, first shot 1.4 sec.
P-11 11/11 @ 15 yds " 1.0 sec

Same as above with cold pouring down rain, glasses wet, low light, and heavier jacket:

1911 1.9 sec.( first shot on paper) group 4.5 "
P-11 1.2 sec ( " ) " Just shy of 5 "

Steel plates(same conditions weather temp., lighting distance)

1911 8/8 1.6 sec
P-11 10/11 1.2 sec.

I have to confess, I had spent more time with P-11 than 1911, I still, by habit, snick off the non-existent safety on P-11) I have a long way to go, still learning.

We won't talk about a brainfart day Okay?

March 26, 2003, 02:58 PM
It depends upon the gun. The following are estimates using totally stock weapons, fired (slowly) offhand with iron sights.

Ruger Mark II - roughly 2" groups at 15 yards

SIG P228 9mm - 4" groups at 15 yards

SIG P220 .45 - 5"-6" groups at 15 yards

S&W 686 - 4" groups at 15 yards

At 25 yards, I would estimate that the groups open up about 50%, so a 4" group might become 6".

If I sit at the bench and take my time, they probably tighten up around 50%. The only exception would be the S&W 686, which if I shoot at the bench in SA, I can sometimes make a big ragged hole with a 5 shot group.

I need to work more on my pistol shooting, but most weekends the sporting clays course calls my name a little louder.

March 26, 2003, 03:08 PM
"assume nothing, trust no one, plan for the worst"

1911 strongside which has been loaded and placed in holster by gunsmith

P-11 weakside.

signal goes off...only one rd in 1911 and its a dummy rd :what:

Well I'm dead because by the time I fiddle fart around and draw BUG and fire 3 seconds plus have elasped and I missed the 6" paper plate. Told it was a small funeral, and some nice things said.:banghead:

March 26, 2003, 03:18 PM
The NRA 2700 pistol course has a bullseye that is 3" across the 10 ring at 50 yards. The whole black part (10, 9, 8 rings) is either 6" or 8" across. The shooting is done with one hand and standing. Winners shoot 50 yard slow fire scores of 95 and up.

PPC shooting at 50 yards is 2 minutes, 45 seconds for 24 rounds; 6 sitting, 6 prone, 6 left hand barricade and 6 right hand barricade. The 10 ring is ovate, about 6" high and 4" wide. That's a possible 240 points. Anything less than 235 gets you Miss Congeniality.

So how do I do? Last time I shot the 50 yard, one-hand, offhand, slow fire, it was about a 13" group. Not very impressive for a target shooter, but I don't get out as much anymore. At 25 yards I tighten up to about 4"-5".
For the PPC type shooting (two hands, double action) at 25 yards, I can usually get 2"-3" groups shooting timed. My 50 yards targets are worse; my eyes just don't work as well anymore. But I can usually do that 2:45 thing mentioned above and shoot into a 12"-14" group.

But here's the problem with comparisons. You only get as good as your competition. That is, if your friends only shoot 10" groups at 25, or 15, or 10 yards and you can shoot 9" groups, you're the winner. Until someone can shoot an 8" group, there's no reason to try harder. So don't fall into the "frog in small puddle" syndrome. Compare yourself to the national champions and see if you can match their scores.

There is already enough mediocrity in the world. Strive to be superior, not just look superior.

March 26, 2003, 05:37 PM
With my handgun (.45, open sights) I can usually keep 18 to 20 out of 25 shots in a 3" black circle at 50 feet, with the remaining shots within a 6" circle. The last couple of times out, though, I've been all over the paper, and don't know why. If it keeps up, I'm going to go back to an instructor for critique.

With my .308, I've gotten a five-shot group measuring .20" center to center at 100 yds from sandbags, using my reloads and 20X scope. But, I'm not a "rifleman," and actually haven't fired a rifle more than a few times the last couple of years.

My best ever rifle target is attached. It's my reloaded .22-250's, 5 shots, 100 yards, sandbagged and a 20X scope.

March 27, 2003, 01:04 PM
When I shoot IDPA at blackcreek in richmond, VA. Todd Jarret shoots about twice as fast with slightly better groups. With the best of the local shooters I am about 15 sec slower total score. I shoot marksman. I never really have measured groups. As a handgun shooter speed ,short distance to targets are more important to me than 2 inch groups. Patrick:)

March 27, 2003, 01:30 PM
That's a nice group.....

March 27, 2003, 01:31 PM
I started as a ISSF competitive bullseye shooter so usually I can produce sub 2" offhand groups (3 or 5 shots) at 25 meters with most (decently made) revolver or pistols. The best groups are 1-1.5".

My 20 round groups are under 4" in a good day. I prefer my P7 which is amazingly accurate even at 50 meters...

March 27, 2003, 02:07 PM
I can do 1" at 10 yards with my P7M8.

March 27, 2003, 06:12 PM
Best Day at the indoor range would be a sub 3in groups with a Sig P226 and Speer 9mm 124gr +p ammo at 20 yards with ease. I have been able to accomplish this with a CZ75B with Walmart 115gr Winchester ammo. (3 shot groups)

March 27, 2003, 08:56 PM
i'll just refer you to my thread about showing off...

that was one handed btw


March 27, 2003, 09:33 PM
IDPA marks man. Stock 92F.


March 27, 2003, 09:52 PM
Steel rams, no problem, at 200 yards:


April 2, 2003, 11:47 AM
25 yards, 4.4" 5 shot group offhand with a CZ97b .45ACP

rifle, 5/8" 6 round group (miscount while firing) at 50 yards with a Marlin model 60 .22LR

25 yards, 1.7" 6 shot group from a bench with a Heritage Rough Rider, using the .22 Magnum cylinder

heres a pic of the 50 yard target

April 2, 2003, 12:05 PM
This was slow fire at 15 yards in a Modified Weaver stance with nicely tuned Sistema (, Novak sights and a fitted NM barrel.

With my stock Sistema, I can do 3" to 4" groups at 15 which I believe is what I shot for Readyontheright's Postal Shoot this month.

At 25 yards, I'm lucky if I can do under 6" groups with any gun. I'm usually in the 6" to 8" range slow fire.

Practice your presentations and keep your shots inside 10". Go as fast as you can keeping that 10" criteria. When you are going too fast to keep inside that diameter, slow down until you re-aquire that goal. That sounds like good advice brownie0486. Thanks, I'm going to practice that. I really need to work on rapid fire.

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