[shotgunner]

I'm a huge fan of the "M4 Commando". That said, I'm looking for a rifle that's similar to the Commando. Obviously I can't own a Commando because it would be illegal for me, seeing as how I do not have a class 3 permit. My question is.

What guns can I buy that are similar to the size of the M4, but just a hair past legal?

Who else manufactures M4 and M-16 style rifles?

Can I get a nice short assault rifle that can handle both 5.56 and .223??

Thanks, I appreciate the help.

[Zak Smith]

Go over to AR15.com

You want an AR15 with a 16" barrel (or with a muzzle device permanently attached bringing it to 16"), and a telestock. You have MANY choices.

-z

[Gary G23]

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/bcwa3f14m4iz.asp

[Commissar Gribb]

one option is to get an M4 type barrel, have it cut down, recrowned and threaded and then permanently attach a fake supressor (or a real one depending on how much paperwork you want to do).

Can I get a nice short assault rifle that can handle both 5.56 and .223??

also, any rifle that can take 5.56 nato will take .223. Most AR type rifles will handle the nato load.

[GoRon]

Who else manufactures M4 and M-16 style rifles?

Rock River Arms (https://www.rockriverarms.com/subcats.cfm?Category=01&storeid=1)

Bushmaster (http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/)

Good place to lurk for info:

AR-15.com (http://www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=3)

[Sheldon]

Here is how I look at the whole M4/forgery issue. If you're stuck with a 16" barrel, why not keep as much of that length as rifled barrel for the velocity advantage?? They sell versions that have a fake suppressor looking sleeve over the 16" barrel if the "look" is important.

[VorpalSpork]

There is no such thing as a “class 3 permit”, the federal government doesn't have the authority to outright ban these or other guns, or only allow people to get them if they have a permit, due to the 2nd amendment. In 1934, when they passed the National Firearms Act, they were still aware of this. :cuss: So what they put in place was a taxing system, that is still in effect today.

What you are thinking of is a class 3 special occupational tax, but you really only need that if you have a business selling lots of NFA items, as it exempts you from paying a $200 tax on each transferred NFA item. Not having payed a class 3 SOT, which is quite expensive, all you need to do is fill out the tax form, pay the $200 NFA tax for a short barreled rifle, and wait for the ATF to mail back your tax form. Then depending on the type of tax form you filed, you can legally either be transferred an existing short barreled rifle, or you can make your own, by putting any short upper on your now NFA registered lower. Short barrels, and short barreled uppers are not hard to find, as they are not even NFA items, if you put them on a AR pistol. If it's what you want, it's really not that hard to do.

[Commissar Gribb]

why not keep as much of that length as rifled barrel for the velocity advantage??

excellent point.

unless you're getting a true supressor, I would suggest the supressor- looking sleeve.