[Horsesense]

My neighbor is going to Mississippi and wants to borrow my SKS

He is a deputy jailer and he has been offered a contract to "work" in MS. He was told that his employer has a letter from the Governor and that he should "bring any gun he wants". The thing is that he doesn't have any suitable long guns. I told him that he could owe me the money if he would give me what I paid for it or I would loan him my M44.

I also told him that he needed to confurrm that a SKS, HP ammo and a bayonet were ok, he will get back to me, however he seemed to be getting cold feet after I suggested that he increase his life insurance and asked him if he had considered that he may have to kill someone.

[joab]

If you think it's for a good cause let him borrow it or like you said accept his IOU for the sale

[Frandy]

he seemed to be getting cold feet after I suggested that he increase his life insurance and asked him if he had considered that he may have to kill someone.

Yeah, well, better to find out now whether you can handle the job. Better now than later.

[GRB]

So he borrows the gun, he then winds up in a bad situation and kills someone. A lawsuit ensues. Guess who is named in the lawsuit. If you loan him that gun you had best be 110% certain it is in perfect working order, the friend knows how to use it and is very proficient with it, that it is 100% legal in the situation in which it will be used, that it conforms 100% with all the regulations governing the job, and on and on. Make sure to remove the bayonet before he uses it.

This is not like handing a friend a gun to help defend your homes as rioters attack and it is a desperate situation of life or death. This is alawsuit waiting to happen with you as one of the losers.

[Horsesense]

You make a good point Glenn. I will give him the M44 (it was only $40) or he can sign an IOU for the SKS.

[GRB]

Someone could still try to sue you but, this way at least it is his firearm and therefore with a sensible jury, he would be responsible for it as opposed to you owning and sharing the responsibility. Lousy thing all these lawsuits based on the blame game but they are now a fact of life in the USA.

[KriegHund]

Sell it too him for 1$.

Buy it back from him for 1$.

[Taurus 66]

So he borrows the gun, he then winds up in a bad situation and kills someone. A lawsuit ensues. Guess who is named in the lawsuit.

Yes, it's bad what a lot of lawyers have done to our justice system.

The sheriffs department won't lend him a rifle?

[Hawkmoon]

Sell it too him for 1$.

Buy it back from him for 1$.
But be sure to sell it to him. And make up duplicate copies of the paperwork, one for each of you, signed and dated by both people.

Absolutely correct -- it's his choice to go there, but since nobody has any clear understanding of what rules/laws apply or don't apply or might be in abeyance or just being overlooked -- the last thing you need is a neigbor down there shooting people with YOUR gun. If it's in your name, YOU are responsible for it ... and I assume you're not going along to tell him who to shoot and who not to shoot.

[Pilgrim]

I think I look at from a morbid point of view. What will he leave for you to compensate his getting whacked and you never get your rifle back?

Pilgrim

[Crosshair]

Wolf HP ammo works in my Yugo SKS just fine. Just in case you need to know.

[El Rojo]

The lawyerphobia around here cracks me up. I mean sure, I guess better safe than sorry, but if it were me, I would give him a gun and tell him to make sure it gets back in one piece or I know he is a good enough guy to do what I would do if I borrowed something. Bring it back in better shape than it left. No one is going to sue you if he has to shoot someone. There are much bigger fish to fry.

Seriously, this lawyerphobia has to stop and someone needs to start just doing the right thing in defiance of lawyers and unfounded fears of lawsuits. Of course I won't hold my breath.

[Sleeping Dog]

I think I look at from a morbid point of view. What will he leave for you to compensate his getting whacked and you never get your rifle back?

Just write off the SKS when you give it. If it comes back, its an unexpected bit of good luck.

To equate a neighbor's life with an SKS? I like most of my neighbors, so it better be a good SKS, a genuine Russian-made piece. :D

[Sunray]

"...a deputy jailer..." A what? If he's a cop or any other form of LEO, he'd be issued anything he requires. The real question is why isn't he being issued a firearm? An SKS isn't standard issue to any North American LEO I've ever heard of. Where would he get ammo? Horsesense, this sounds like BS of the highest order to me.

[Borachon]

I live in Mississippi. I'm away from the coast going to college, but my family lives(d) in Bay St. Louis.

Tell your buddy to take his side arm. He isn't going to Somalia or Iraq. All the people down there are shell shocked. The gun shots that he hears will probably be residents dispatching snakes, rats, and alligators. You aren't hearing about mass shootings and all that in Mississippi like you are in New Orleans. The demographic make up on the Coast is not like New Orleans. It's mostly large families. Tell everyone you meet that your name is Ladner and they'll have you in for a family reunion...because everyone on the coast is a Ladner. (Not quite true...but damn close.)

Frankly, if your buddy is more concerned about what sort of long gun he needs to bring, then I'd rather he stayed at home. If he was concerned about what sort of water to bring, or what other help, then I'd say come on.

He sounds like he wants target practice. We aren't the type of people you want to try that stuff with. Especially right now.

[Taurus 66]

No one is going to sue you if he has to shoot someone. There are much bigger fish to fry.

Ah yes, so simple it is, just fire away with the absolute complacency that martial law trumps all. That'll get you somewhere. Don't believe it! Everyone's a half a step away from their own day in court, and there are plenty of attorneys out there fresh to the system and eager enough to try something.

[Borachon]

Another thing.

Tell your buddy if he does come here to be polite.

All of us hunt here. We all know how to shoot, and shoot well. We have one of the highest percentages of citizens who join the armed forces. So anybody you might meet could have been in special forces and many of them will have at least served in the military. Many of our citizens have done some truly honorable service overseas. Tell your buddy that.

The most dangerous thing to your neighbor will probably be to his waistline...assuming he brings enough ingrediants to let the women bake him a pecan pie. If he brings that, I promise you he'll eat good every day he's here. Because we have wonderful people here.

On the negative side, we still kill each other over affairs of honor. I've seen feuds between men that lasted for 25 years that finally ended with one of them killing the other. I've seen a man shoot both his wife and her boyfriend in a church parking lot. The consequences to the murderers freedom never even being a consideration.

We have a high rate of police officers killed in our state. Most of our people are "live free and leave me alone" types of people. When you mess with them, you are asking for trouble. What I'm saying is, is that we have lots of citizens who wouldn't think twice about shooting an out of state cop who started roughing up their wife or children...especially when they haven't had a bite to eat in 5 days and only river water to drink. Don't take my word for it. There has got to be a website that shows the percentage of police killed here in Miss. and how that works out to a national average.

We also don't like people from other places coming down and telling us what to do. We've had that happen a couple of times since 1860 and we didn't like it then and we don't like it now. If you are coming to help, you'll find we are the nicest people on the planet. If you come here with the wrong attitude and start throwing your weight around, I promise you that you'll get hurt.

[Borachon]

Everyone's a half a step away from their own day in court, and there are plenty of attorneys out there fresh to the system and eager enough to try something.

Our attorneys were the ones who beat the TOBACCO INDUSTRIES' attorneys. Forget that old stereotype about the guy in a white suit drinking mint joolips on his front porch...the attorneys we have now are pit bulls.

If our cops (local sheriffs and local police) see you (a foreign cop) throwing your weight around and blasting people for the hell of it, they'll either A.) arrest you, or B.) make you wish they had.

Your neighbor isn't going on a safari in Africa for God's sake. He doesn't need to debate what firearm works best for shooting Mississippians. Tell him to bring his side arm, and he'll be able to pick up a rifle or shotgun around here...if he thinks he needs it once he gets down here and looks the situation over. My prediction is he'll find out that the long gun is unnecessary and burns the hell out of your arms when you leave it in the sun too long.

[Byron Quick]

Sounds like home to me.

[Borachon]

Sounds like home to me.

:D

Ah...a Georgian!

Our canoe-ers can make it down the rivers without sodomy. ;)

Otherwise, not much difference.

[Taurus 66]

We have a high rate of police officers killed in our state. Most of our people are "live free and leave me alone" types of people. When you mess with them, you are asking for trouble. What I'm saying is, is that we have lots of citizens who wouldn't think twice about shooting an out of state cop who started roughing up their wife or children...especially when they haven't had a bite to eat in 5 days and only river water to drink. Don't take my word for it. There has got to be a website that shows the percentage of police killed here in Miss. and how that works out to a national average.

We also don't like people from other places coming down and telling us what to do. We've had that happen a couple of times since 1860 and we didn't like it then and we don't like it now. If you are coming to help, you'll find we are the nicest people on the planet. If you come here with the wrong attitude and start throwing your weight around, I promise you that you'll get hurt.

AMEN Borachon! You are new here but you will soon discover many who post are loose and trigger happy. I guess they just don't come to grips with the real world or simply think the laws in their local land also apply elsewhere. It's almost as if Hollowhead Hollywood hollwed their heads to the point that they can react in a way to a situation the actor does on the screen, especially if it's Clint Eastwood or Charles Bronson.

Be certain your shot is justifyable, 'cause most southerners don't take wrongful shootings at all lightly. Lynching is still the order of the day in those parts, and claiming ignorance is not a formidable plea.

If you're spared for some reason or another, it's because you're destined to suffer your remaining days a poor man walking the planet.

[odysseus]

Your neighbor isn't going on a safari in Africa for God's sake. He doesn't need to debate what firearm works best for shooting Mississippians.

Right on the money!

[El Rojo]

You know, I would figure that the standard around here, as far as shootings go, would be you don't shoot unless you absolutely have to and if you do shoot you make sure you are justified in doing so. I guess I made the mistake of assuming that most people in this country and most people on this board fully understand what makes a legal and justified shoot and what is not. It would seem that according to some of this board anyone who wants to take a rifle along for their protection is incapable of knowing what is right and proper and they are more likely to just start randomly shooting innocent civilians and endangering the general public. In addition, no one should ever use a rifle to defend themselves because there will be lawyers waiting to sue the crap out of you and take your money, your kid's money, their kid's money, and their unborn children's money. No, nevermind the fact that if you make a lawful shoot justified by self-defense laws of your state you are not liable for the situation that someone else placed you. No no. The lawyers will sue you and they will win. It is best to just dig a hole and not come out of it for fear of being sued for leaving your hole open for someone to fall in. In fact, you should just get in your hole and fill it in while you are in it just to be safe.[/extremesarcasmanddisgust]

[Taurus 66]

You know, I would figure that the standard around here, as far as shootings go, would be you don't shoot unless you absolutely have to and if you do shoot you make sure you are justified in doing so. I guess I made the mistake of assuming that most people in this country and most people on this board fully understand what makes a legal and justified shoot and what is not. It would seem that according to some of this board anyone who wants to take a rifle along for their protection is incapable of knowing what is right and proper and they are more likely to just start randomly shooting innocent civilians and endangering the general public. In addition, no one should ever use a rifle to defend themselves because there will be lawyers waiting to sue the crap out of you and take your money, your kid's money, their kid's money, and their unborn children's money. No, nevermind the fact that if you make a lawful shoot justified by self-defense laws of your state you are not liable for the situation that someone else placed you. No no. The lawyers will sue you and they will win. It is best to just dig a hole and not come out of it for fear of being sued for leaving your hole open for someone to fall in. In fact, you should just get in your hole and fill it in while you are in it just to be safe.[/extremesarcasmanddisgust]

NO! See, it's not gonna work. You forgot to put [extremesarcasmanddisgust] at the beginning. :neener:

[El Rojo]

Damn, you're right. :(

[Sleeping Dog]

Your neighbor isn't going on a safari in Africa for God's sake.

Or New Orleans. :evil:

[hksw]

My neighbor is going to Mississippi and wants to borrow my SKS

Why worry about all of the legalities and liabilities of lending your rifle to him? Just tell him to go out and buy one. Go along to help him pick one out.

[EVIL5LITER]

Lynching is still the order of the day in those parts, and claiming ignorance is not a formidable plea.


Bull????. There hasn't been a lynching in the south since 1981.

They might take you out behind the woodshed and beat you within an inch of your life, but they won't lynch you.

[AnthonyRSS]

That was coming from a guy in New York....

[bamawrx]

I've had trouble with this question. It is similar to the often question of SHTF and neighbor needs gun do you give them one? On the one hand your neighbor really should have been prepared. Plus this is his method of employment so the rifle and some training would have made sense.

On the other hand, you are not in the SHTF situation, a bunch of good people in MS are so why not help out. Its not like you can't replace the SKS at the next gun show for cheap. And if the guy needs to shoot someone with the rifle, we'll I'd have a special pride about my rifle having been used to take down a looter or rapists or something.

So I guess I'm for giving him the SKS, just make sure you tell him that if he gets TV interviewed to MAKE DARN SURE he makes the point that the rifle he is using to keep MS citizens safe was donated by a citizen from X state. We could use the good publicity as gun owners right now.

You know what, ask your friend if other cop/security guys need rifles because I bet we could get a lend/lease program started and that would be GREAT PR. And the right thing to do. I'd go buy an AK just for the occasion and it could be stamped like the ones were for the UK in WWII.

[Taurus 66]

Bull????. There hasn't been a lynching in the south since 1981.

I wasn't referring to lynch by a court of law.

That was coming from a guy in New York....

Yeahah, no mind us dang yanks. Weez ignant an don't know gritz about the south. Weez ignant! :p

[gripper]

Let me get this right...He is a deputy/jailer;a peace officer.He can get work down ther e to keep the peace,maybe by force of arms.And he's getting cold feet??What am I missing?Or more importantly,what is HE missing???Did he think that his takng the job meant he'd never have to use force??Or that fights are choreographed to never escalate to a lethal level of force??
Is he really young for the job??I'm not trying to bust his b@lls,I just might have had a different upbringing,even up here in Ted Kennedyland/Massghanistan.

[Byron Quick]

They might take you out behind the woodshed and beat you within an inch of your life, but they won't lynch you.

Depends. We've got some lynchings on hold. Can't find the lynchee. There's a murderer from this area. Tried. Convicted. Imprisoned. Was given a life sentence instead of the electric chair and paroled in seven years due to political pull.

He hasn't been home in forty years. He didn't attend his father's funeral, his mother's funeral, or any of his kin's funerals because he didn't want to attend his own funeral.

The family of his victim is still waiting on him to decide that enough time has gone by to let bygones be bygones. So far, he's got better sense.

[Sleeping Dog]

My neighbor is going to Mississippi and wants to borrow my SKS

The original post was by HorseSense. Is this the same HorseSense who (with his cousin's help) used to do strange modifications to Makarov pistols?

If so, glad to see that you haven't been "Darwinized" by gunsmith experiments.

And if your cousin "improved" the SKS, don't give or lend it. Don't even touch it. :D

Regards.

[Horsesense]

He decided to stay at home. He is not a gun guy and his job consists mostly of moving prisoners, searching cells and what ever else those guys do. My reluctance was based on the fact that he, most likely, was getting in over his head, what kind of work do they want you to do if they tell you to bring any gun you want? While on the other hand it could be just standing and guarding something. In any case I wouldn't want to deny a neighbor the use of a long gun, just incase, but I would have been more comfortable in his ability to use the M44 than the SKS (spray and pray comes to mind) and its just a tough situation all around.

I'm glad that he backed out.

[gripper]

Sorry I started to draw a wrong conclusion;I've had the misfortune to encounter people who were happy to get a public trust position,get paid for it,but freaked when they realized they might have to do the job.These being recent encounters,I was probably a little pre-judgemental. No offense was/is intended. :o

[Hawkmoon]

No, nevermind the fact that if you make a lawful shoot justified by self-defense laws of your state you are not liable for the situation that someone else placed you. No no. The lawyers will sue you and they will win.
Nobody said the lawyers would win. But if sued, the guy who lent the rifle still has to pay to defend himself against a meritless suit.

And, there's always the chance that the plaintiff might win.

Want to do away with lawyerphobia right quick? Get the ABA and the Trial Lawyers' Association to stop using a "shotgun" and "deep pockets" approach, and to focus on justice rather than compensation. IMHO what you're seeing isn't a fear of lawyers, it's plain and simple disgust at the way many (I might go so far as to say "most") will prostitute themselves in the pursuit of $$$$ for their clients -- and for themselves. Most are more concerned with winning than they are with seeing that justice is attained. That's wrong.

I agree that everyone is entitled to their day in court. That does not mean that they are entitled to win a meritless suit. It means they are entitled to pay the filing fees, pay their attorney, and stand there listening as the judge throws the case out. Unfortunately, that happens all too rarely.

[Vern Humphrey]

I wasn't referring to lynch by a court of law.


Although the verb "to lynch" comes from an Irish judge of that name who sentenced his own son to hang, it has long since come to mean an unlawful killing by a mob. There are no lynchings by a court of law.

[SouthpawShootr]

I don't think it's a good idea to "loan" a gun to someone who is voluntarily going into a bad situation. I'm judging the right or wrong, good or bad or going to help out. In fact I would commend him. But he needs to go out and buy his own weapons. SKS and AK's are relatively inexpensive and commonly found. I would expect a gun in such an application to be put to hard use (dings, scratches and so forth, not necessarily shooting) and it's sure to come back to you worse for the wear. Liability considerations are also important.

Now, if you (and he) were already in a bad situation and this guy is your buddy and needs the gun.......well, I've already said in another thread I support loaning him the gun provided he understands that he is responsible to you for what he does with your property.

[joab]

Nobody said the lawyers would win. But if sued, the guy who lent the rifle still has to pay to defend himself against a meritless suit.I have never heard of this happening, has it?

Thats a serious question, not smart assed at all

[cracked butt]

Pardon me for being so blunt, but why not point him to a store that sells SKS's?

If I wanted another SKS, I could could drive to any number of stores within 20 minutes of my house, and have a shiny new SKS in my hands at home in less than an hour.


Giving a rifle to someone who isn't familiar with it isn't too much different than giving a teenage daughter a case of wine coolers and a box of condoms and telling her to go have fun.

[Hawkmoon]

I have never heard of this happening, has it?

Thats a serious question, not smart assed at all
I don't know if it has happened. The point is, if the first guy lends the gun, it remains his property and under the law he is responsible for its use (or misuse). If the gun has been legally transferred (either by sale or by gift), then the first guy is no longer the owner and is not responsible for what the new owner does with it.

I don't consider it a "phobia" to recognize the reality that trial lawyers always seek deep pockets and always seek additional pockets when filing lawsuits seeking compensation. If there is any way to drag you in, they'll do it. How bad is it? A number of years ago the firm I worked for at the time was sued by a volunteer fireman who injured himself falling from a ladder because he showed up at the fire drunk. That should have been reeason enough to dismiss the suit, but it wasn't.

But the best part is, my company was hired AFTER the fire, to design the repairs to the building. Yet the lawyer for the fireman named us in the suit, claimed the fire was caused by OUR faulty design (which had not yet been performed) ... and the judge initially was so dense that he couldn't understand why we moved to be dismissed from the suit.

And you wonder why I hold lawyers in low esteem? I come from a family of attorneys and judges. The last quit private practice and became a professor because he couldn't stomach the lack of ethics displayed by his colleagues. And that was couple of generations ago ... it hasn't gotten better since then.

[waterhouse]

It sounds like at this point in his life he can't afford to buy his own long gun. I'd say if you have a spare for defending yourself let him have it.

[pete f]

Point One, The Mississippi Side of the river has not been the scene of wide spread looting and social unrest over this as of yet. I have been recruited by several companies to head down and help with the New Reconstruction. I would not be surprised that by next year much of the affected areas are dramatically different in demographics.

Point Two So many of the residents are going tobe gone, adn so many new comers in place trying to help rebuild. The lever of damage is such that it it going to affect the price of new commercial construction for many years. The demand for skilled commerical heavy construction workers is going to be a national issue.

Point Three. I truly believe that in the next three weeks there will be no time for larceny down there, every one will be to busy rebuilding to have much time to be out messing around.

For a hundred bucks if a neighbor needed the gun i would give it to him, sell it for a dollar. makes it legal, not to kowtow to the lawyers, but then he can truthfully say to anyone concerned that it was his weapon.

I am looking at going down, living in a trailer for a year, will take a couple of stainless hanguns, maybe a 870 marine not sure yet. Would feel plenty comfy that way.

[EVIL5LITER]

I wasn't referring to lynch by a court of law.


I wasn't either. I know you must think we're all a bunch of backwoods, illiterate, inbred, hillbilly rednecks who wouldn't care if we had sex with a goat or our cousin, but this isn't Arkansas, it's Alabama. (sorry, couldn't resist for the people in Arkansas).

We're not all card carrying members of the Ku Klux Klan. We don't all hate minorities, we're not all white supremacists. I know this is difficult for you to understand, having been brainwashed, I mean educated, in the North, but until you get to visit the area, maybe you can just take my word for it.

[Taurus 66]

I wasn't either. I know you must think we're all a bunch of backwoods, illiterate, inbred, hillbilly rednecks who would wouldn't care if we had sex with a goat or our cousin, but this isn't Arkansas, it's Alabama.

HEY NOW! You think I called you illiterate? I take great offense. :D

[Borachon]

what kind of work do they want you to do if they tell you to bring any gun you want?

The kind of work were it doesn't matter if you bring a howitzer or a single shot .22...because they don't expect you to USE either. Your gun is intended to be a deterent showpiece.

I'm glad that your friend decided not to come here though.

As the old saying goes:

"Come to help
You're welcome to stay.
Come to shoot us.
Please stay away."

If he changes his mind and decides to come, he'll be welcome as long as he can throw ice and pick up trash.

I'm not trying to minimize the situation. There is SOME gunfire, and you do NOT want to be in violation of curfew, but the majority of gunfire is for snakes, and pets that have "flipped out". Armed confrontations between neighbors, or between hurricane victims and the police, just haven't materialized here in Mississippi...and won't. Unless some new extraordinary set of events changes things.

On the subject of lynchings in Mississippi. Well...as I understand it...they aren't done in public anymore. If we have lynchings...and I have no proof we do...then they are disguised as suicides that happen in jail. Someone is found hanging in their cell, and you don't know if it is suicide or something else. Public lynchings went out a while back.

Our society has a barely repressed fascination with lethal violence though. We carry a lot of that Scots/Irish blood in our veins, and we aren't above killing someone if we think they deserve it....even if most other independent observers would question our motives in doing so. I think that most of the Southern states have a veneer of civility that keeps us from shooting each other every five minutes or so. We practice religion and politeness as a balm to an underlying savagery. And we can be quite savage. I've often thought that Southerners shouldn't be allowed to drink alcohol because drinking tends to let our dark sides run more freely. My view is not a popular one though. ;)

Our civility is not false though. It is merely the gentle side of our nature. I've seen men who cheerfully killed Germans for 2 years break down in tears over a bag of puppies that were abandoned on the side of the road.

No I'd say that lynching is very much out...at least for the moment. We do have a real sense of tradition though about most everything else...I don't see why lynching would be any different...if the situation called for it. No, I'd say lynching is currently out. If we want to kill someone now, we pull up outside their house, pump 20 or 30 shots thru their drywall and then get 'em with the shotgun when they run outside.

As a final thought, Television has gone a long way toward killing Southern Culture IMO. It's very hard to find a real down home ringing Southern accent anymore. There are people who can effect one for Yankees who won't know any better, but the true accents of Mississippi are gradually blending toward the TV norm. Kinda sad actually.

[joab]

the true accents of Mississippi are gradually blending toward the TV norm.I Think the true Mississippian accent may have died with Shelby Foote. It's really a shame to be losing it.

There was a time in my youth when you could tell what state a person was from by their accent and to some extent from there features.

Mississippian was always one of my favorite accents

[Mannlicher]

Let him buy his own. I don't lend guns.
SKS would not be what he needs anyway. A handgun would serve him better, and he certainly would not be allowed to 'pack' while working in any jail.

[carebear]

I have been recruited by several companies to head down and help with the New Reconstruction.

If this name is catching on, I suggest someone come up with an alternative, perhaps some play on "the South will Rise again".

:uhoh:


"Hello friendly Southerners, I'm from Massachusetts and I'm here with the "New Reconstruction." Where do I put my carpet bag?"

<bang>

:evil:

[gripper]

What are the companies doing recruitment???I'm curious,and would not mind if any here in the know could email me the info &links.Think of it as 'enlightened self-interest"...if I can do good ,thats all right..if I can get paid for a mitzvah,thats a good thing,too! :cool: