Feces Disposal

[kannonfyre]

Much has been said about BOBs and preparedness but what about the following situation?

A randon major civil emergency has taken place. You live in the suburbs and after much rational thought, you and your meighbours have decided to hole up in your homes, hunker down and wait for order and utilities to be restored.

You and your neighbours have enough food and water to last for 4 days and the 10 adults in this little SHTF commune have formed a 24hr defense watch rotated in 6 hr shifts.

The problem is....that with water supply disabled and all the clear bathroom cistern water pumped out and filtered for drinking and washing purposes, there's no way to dispose off the SH** after the daily bowel movement.

We shall assume for the moment that the household gardens are too shallow to bury fecal matter and that the only patch of woodlands near enough to bury waste is somewhere in no-man's land where desperate people roam.

So how would you contain or set aside this fecal matter so that it does not pose a health hazard?

My solution: trash bag lined air-tight trash bins with disinfectant and deodorant poured in after every cr**.

What would you guys suggest?

[Jeff White]

Catholes or latrines. You don't need a whole lot of ground to remain sanitary.

Where does the soil pip in your house empty into, a septic tank or a sewer? You can always open either one of them and put the waste directly there without needing water to flush it.

I'm assuming you're using all your water for drinking and there is no gray water generated by washing. If that's the case, why are you staying put? After 4 days you're going to start dying of dehydration. Better be finding another source of water.

Jeff

[Norton]

Check out Sportsman's Guide and get one of those toilet seats that go on top of a 5 gallon bucket. Then all you need are some kitchen garbage bags as liners and you're set to go.

[only1asterisk]

If you pull you closet, you will likely find a 4" pipe. Flush the #2 with #1 if you don't have any water of any kind (like a bucket from the creek). Cover the pipe to keep the stink and sewer gas from getting to you.

David

[TarpleyG]

My dogs crap all over the back yard and it hasn't posed a health risk as of yet. I figure I could do the same. Or, just burn or bury it.

Greg

[c_yeager]

My dogs crap all over the back yard and it hasn't posed a health risk as of yet. I figure I could do the same. Or, just burn or bury it.

Dog feces poses little risk to humans. The biology of humans and dogs is different enough that many of the diseases that inhabit canines simply cannot survive in humans. Conversely, every single bacteria and virus in a pile of human feces is tailored specifically to live in the human body.

[kannonfyre]

Tarpley G:

Green areas nearby are artificial gardens. Too shallow to bury crap. Burning also out of the question. It stinks to high haven :barf: and might attract the attention of looters or :uhoh: criminals.

[BryanP]

Short term? Expected to last a matter of a few days, up to maybe 2 weeks? If I was holed up in my house with just me the wife and the animals I'd use one of the 5-gallon buckets in the garage, lined with a trash bag. I'd take the regular trash out of the 48-gallon trash can and start putting the trash bags into the trash can.

Longer term would involve digging holes, but longer term would involve leaving.

[Malamute]

"Green areas nearby are artificial gardens. Too shallow to bury crap...."


There isn't ANY exposed ground around, like a grassy area? all you need is a foot or so of hole, when it's near full, bry it and make another one.

The info about burying human waste in forest areas says a couple inches is good enough. This implies single uses, but a foot or two deep hole should suffice for short term.

May be a good time to consider moving out of town somewhere that has it's own septic system and well, or nearby creek or river.

[Oldnamvet]

Check out the new diaper pails. You can put dirty diapers in them for several days before emptying and they have no odor. Built in charcoal filters and air fresheners take care of things. They have a plastic bag liner that you actually are able to close before taking the lid off. Bigger than a 5 gallon bucket, they would last for a while.

[GRB]

Green areas nearby are artificial gardens. Too shallow to bury crap. Your scenario is not realistic. You could live in the middle of the busiest city in the world and find a place to bury crap. Is the fortified home built on rock? In that case bag it. If no bags then box it or can it. If no containers then outside in one area as far from the house as possible. So what if it stinks, it will keep the flies away from you.

Isn't it amazing how no one in new orleans figured out that all their toilets were pefectly functional, that is had they used a little gray cell power, a bucket, and the water that was flooding their streets. In other words all they had to do before taking a dump was get a bucket full of water from the street, do the dirty deed in the bowl, and pour the bucket of water into the bowl. No magic there at all, the poop would have been flushed. People are foolish and do not like to think. What would it matter if the water going down the drain was already polluted when it would only be used to wash away crap.

[geekWithA.45]

IIRC my boyscout manual correctly, you just dig a 2 or 3 foot deep hole in a strategic spot, and shovel a bit of dirt and lime (if available) over each lump. It's not like you need to dig a full outhouse for the short term.

The key is to keep it all isolated from people, food, and cooking areas.


Incidentally, if there was any organizational capability present i the dome, they should have organized designated latrine areas, rather than let people crap all over the place at random.

[Hobie]

Dig a trench latrine. Over cover with lime and soil. Not great but not horrible. Can't do it in floods but every other situation will work. (got to go get some lime).

[Malamute]

Wood ash works well also. I used it in my outhouse for years. Keeps the flies and smell down. I kept a small trash can in the outhouse with a scoop. Always had ash from the woodstove. Cooking on a fire will give ash too.

[Preacherman]

Isn't it amazing how no one in new orleans figured out that all their toilets were pefectly functional, that is had they used a little gray cell power, a bucket, and the water that was flooding their streets. In other words all they had to do before taking a dump was get a bucket full of water from the street, do the dirty deed in the bowl, and pour the bucket of water into the bowl. No magic there at all, the poop would have been flushed. People are foolish and do not like to think. What would it matter if the water going down the drain was already polluted when it would only be used to wash away crap.

Actually, Glenn, you're mistaken here. The floodwaters have overflowed into the sewer system, and the 10-20 feet of water depth is actually applying reverse pressure to the sewer pipes - that's why there are reports of the toilets overflowing in the Superdome. It's not excessive use, it's back-pressure forcing the contents of the sewer back up the toilets. Pouring a bucket of water down the toilet would simply ensure that you got your own back, with interest, so to speak.

:(

[Spot77]

Well there goes my lunch.......

I was looking forward to the leftover enchilladas until reading this thread :barf:


Anyway, remember that in any SHTF scenario, a gallon of bleach can be your best friend.

[Norton]

I was looking forward to the leftover enchilladas until reading this thread

Dang....you had enchiladas last night? If I'd have know that I might not have ridden up to BJs last night :neener:

[Dave Markowitz]

Check out the new diaper pails. You can put dirty diapers in them for several days before emptying and they have no odor. Built in charcoal filters and air fresheners take care of things. They have a plastic bag liner that you actually are able to close before taking the lid off. Bigger than a 5 gallon bucket, they would last for a while.

If you're thinking of the Diaper Genie, I can ASSUREyou that they do indeed develop a pungent aroma if you put poop in them. They are OK for diapers with only #1, but once a baby goes on solid food, let's just say you don't want a whiff. :barf:

[odysseus]

For what it's worth - here is a technique used by some hikers. There are now some parks out there that require you to pack out EVERYTHING. So the burying of crap is not even allowed. Now I think that is ridiculous, but it is a rule in some parts.

One pre packs small paper bags, and inside them deposits cat litter into each bag. Then one puts this paper bag into a small plastic bag. Do your business into the paper bag. Shake a little, and seal in plastic. This also packs up nicely before and after, and is very portable.

[Preacherman]

Oddyseus, that's a REALLY good idea, and right now, is a very helpful suggestion!!! (Why didn't I think of it? I've got two cats! :banghead: ) I shall pass that along to those in the disaster area, and I'm sure they'll make good use of your suggestion.

(Has mental picture of himself squatting over the kitty litter tray, to the disgust and horror of his cats... :D )

[4v50 Gary]

Digging several community latrines would be the best answer. It should be away from any ground water. Lack of hygiene was a bigger killer than the minie ball or grape shot in the late unpleasantness between states (The Mother of American Family Feuds).

[TallPine]

well, I've burned it in the woodstove before without any ill effects

I'm sure you can figure out the details if you have a stack of old newpapers lying around....

[Preacherman]

Visitor: "What kind of wood is that you're burning? Cedar? Sandalwood?"

Tallpine: "Errr... not exactly... "

:D

[BryanP]

(Has mental picture of himself squatting over the kitty litter tray, to the disgust and horror of his cats... :D )

A visitor walks by and says "Hey Peter, did you get a mountain lion for a pet or what?" :what:

:evil:

[joab]

I actually thought about this after last years storms

If it's for an extended pull the toilet and use the hole in the ground like an Asian toilet.
Use fluids naturally produced by the body as flushing agents.
Use those bacterial packs to minimize odor along with covering it up with a bucket.

As it turned out we were only unable to use the civilized toilet for a week so we relied on the honey pot.

solid waste in the bucket, naturally produced water to liquefy it mixed with the storm run off that was plentiful called it humanure and poured it at the back of the property under the grapefruit tree.

Got kinda pissed when I found out that there was nothing really wrong with the toilet

[oneshooter]

You can always do the military thing. Use 1/2 of a 55gal drom for the latrine, when about 1/2 full add a gallon or so of diesel with a splash of gas to help. Lite er up and stirr till all is gone! be sure to do this down wind of the camp!!! :D

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas with a LOT of Cajuns

[Dave R]

Just pointing out that toilets work without electricity. As long as the sewers have not backed up, you can just use a toilet. Flush once a day or so. Then refill the tank manually. Assuming you have a water source...

I have a septic tank, which will work whether the city sewer does or not.

[cracked butt]

If you're thinking of the Diaper Genie, I can ASSUREyou that they do indeed develop a pungent aroma if you put poop in them. They are OK for diapers with only #1, but once a baby goes on solid food, let's just say you don't want a whiff.

I second that. The smell of the no. 2s seems to permeater right through the plastic liners.



I would dig a small hole, cover up the poop with concrete or mortar mix since the stuff is pretty easy to find- I have about 500 lbs of the stuff in my garage right now.

[rwc]

In the woods make sure your "cat hole" is at least a foot deep and 20 feet from any stream 9and even farther from a real river (think about flood stage)).

If you are in place and can dig a pit toilet/outhouse use dirt, ash, woodchips, sawdust, or any leafy or woody material to sprinkle over your "night soil."

I've used "blue bags" climbing Mt. Rainier and other entirely glaciated terrain. Suffice it to say that even double bag-ed, I didn't use that exterior mesh pocket on my pack for anything else again. Ever.

I've got a "Diaper Champ" in service now. It fills up in a few days and you know when it's getting full. Enough said.

Garbage bags and a tight fitting lid on a 5gal. bucket would do in the basement if necessary.

[carebear]

"Honey Buckets" are still the toilet of requirement all over Bush Alaska. 5-gallon with a plastic bag liner. Bags go into outside holding tank which is picked up weekly or so.

I have one of those Cabelas seats on the list for camping anyway. Girlie's (and sissies like me) would rather sit than squat.

[Spot77]

http://store.karstsports.com/karst/howtoshinwo.html


I was given the book as a joke, but it has some excellent information in it.

[hso]

http://www.biogroupusa.com/portable-camping-toilets.html
http://www.traveljohn.com/1-1-3.php#a

Line 5 gal pail with the disposable bags and sprinkle a cup of peat moss over the leavings. It does an amazing job at keeping the smell down (not new mown fresh, but better than charnal house). You could just put the bags in the toilet bowl and the carry them out when "full", but that's not very efficient and anyone that can't sit on a 5 gal pail toilet in those situations is in deep denial and needs to get over it.

You'll want to dump it in a pit large enought to hold it and well away from your potable water supply.


I've got a well and septic system so I'd just keep my grey water and use it for flushing, but I've been deep in the backcountry or far down some river on a multiday trip and would have considered selling optins on my soul for the traveljohn kit.

[NMshooter]

I live in an apartment, so I keep a 5 gal. bucket, a plastic seat, lots of small garbage bags, a couple containers of stuff to put in the bags along with the waste, and a large quantity of toilet paper.

You can not have too much TP! :D

[Thin Black Line]

People don't realize how important this topic is until they HAVE to live
with using a porta-john for an extended time period and the poop pump
truck fails to show up.

The pail, porta lid, garbage bags are all great ideas. You'll want to
keep the pail top down and the used bags stored out of sunlight
so as not to attract flies. Nothing like sitting down and having
flies buzzing around your, um.... :uhoh: :eek:

Do NOT discard the waste openly in your tiny suburban back yard.
You will get sick. The average American can not handle fecal
material as well as the average 3rd worlder. I won't even
get into the list of stuff you can catch! :barf:

[slopemeno]

Correct on the flies. Everywhere a fly stops is getting a little splotch...
I'm involved in disaster planning for a large agency. Use the bags and seal them well. The only thing wors than a disaster like this would be going through it with a huge case of the runs.

[iiibdsiil]

Not sure if this has been said already, but I think a couple 5 gallon paint buckets would be good. They obviously seal up well enough to hold paint without it dripping. You could poop on a paper plate or something, and hold your breath and put it in the bucket and reseal. Then when someone tries to loot your place you can pull the top off and pour it on them from the 2nd story :p

[pete f]

A five gallon bucket with some tall kitchen bags with some kitty litter in the bottom works just fine. Just a bag too if you wrap it up tight. then pack into a tightly sealed five gallon bucket. If the bucket bites into your thighs when you sit, take a screw driver and two screws later you got a toilet seat for your bucket.

As far as no place to put it. your back yard will work fine. for a week or so. Another product that works great is RID X that stuff for septic tanks. Dig a hole use as latrine and once a day pour that stuff in and you are good to go, in five or six days nothing left.

The disease factor is not real big. some people would have you believe you are a step from death. but wash with a dab of purell and you are not going to spread the germs. And most people do not get sick from fecal matter left in the yard but from the bathroom-dirty hands-foodprep-mouth chain than any other. That is why it is federal law to wash hands after using the bathroom in an resturant (for employees) . Poop in a hole and bury it and you are just fine. remember we are talking civic disruption, not EOTWAWKI total collapse.

[oh blanky]

Throw it into a fan.

[bigjim]

This has got to be the crappiest thread ever. I wish the Mods would do something cuz this really stinks.

[MICHAEL T]

The 5 gal bucket trash bags and cat litter will keep the smell down You can also buy camping porta potties but with 10 or so people will need to empty dailey somewhere. We had one years ago for late at night or to cold to walk to little house. With 3 small girls made life a little easlier.

[AZ Heat]

I'll confirm that cat litter works great! Just dig a hole, do your business and sprinkle some cat litter. You can do this for several days and have zero smell (of course I didn't stick my head down to the hole to verify up close). Whenever we go camping we set up a "bathroom" with a tarp, toilet seat with legs, toilet paper and cat litter. Even enclosed in the middle of the day, there is no smell. When we leave, we cover it up and that is that.

[Sheldon J]

In orleans simple gift wrap it and put it in a store window, looters arive problem solved. :neener: