Do your Surefire's drain down on their own?

[flip180]

I have a C-2 Centurion that I absolutely love but, one thing I've noticed is that it seems to drain down on it's own without being used when the batteries are getting down on power. I guess what I'm saying is, I've never used the flashlight to the point where the beam just dies on me. It is when I pick it up after not using it for a week or so that the batteries are completely dead. Again this happens when the batteries have a good bit of use on them but, they're not quite dead when I used it last. Has anyone noticed this or is it just me?

Thanks, Flip.

[NMshooter]

In theory the on-off switch should not provide a current path unless switched on. Is your endcap screwed on tight, where it only takes slight pressure to turn on, or loose, where you have to press hard to turn on?

Might also look inside the flashlight, make sure nothing conductive is shorting the batteries to the body.

Hope that helps.

[flip180]

I keep the end cap pretty tight where I only have to apply slight pressure to activate the light. Do you think that could provide just enough contact to drain the batteries and not enough the activate the bulb?

Thanks, Flip.

[steveno]

I'm not sure which model I have but it takes two of the lithium batteries and their isn't any indication that they are losing their charge. the flashlight might be working one minute just fine and the next minute after some usage and it is DEAD.

[Ringer]

Not you. Mine always die that way, I have never had one go dim or go out while using it. Just go to use it and it's dead. Must be the nature of the lithium batteries. They do last a very long time in my flashlights that I don't use often, but the no warning thing can be (not so good) surprise sometimes.

[another okie]

If lithium batteries are draining on their own, something's wrong with the flashlight. Rechargeable batteries do drain over time, usually not a very long time either, but the lithiums have quite a long shelf life.

[Size15s]

I believe what you are experiencing is the result of how 123A batteries work, and not the fault of the flashlight.

My understanding is that warm batteries are better able to produce the power required to light up for the flashlight. So what you could be getting is a "false" impression of the amount of battery runtime left because the output is being maintained for longer when the batteries are warm.
Now when you next come to use your flashlight the batteries are cold and used. They don't have the ability to produce the power required. There will be some output for a moment or so and then nothing.

It is important to use the disable function of a flashlight to ensure that unintentional operation during carry, transport and storage is minimised.

Al

[NMshooter]

Size 15s brought up the point I was going to make. :)

The easier it is for you to turn on your flashlight the easier it is for the flashlight to be turned on when stored.

Those 123s and high intensity bulbs can get awful hot when you accidently turn the light on...

[Size15s]

There have been several cases of non-USA made 123A batteries 'exploding' inside a flashlight. One of the causes is that the light has been activated in a confined space and over-heated.

I only use 123A batteries made in the USA such as SF123A or DL123A batteries.

Al

[erh]

Yes - Mine do!!

[Vitamin G]

Mine do not drain. I rotate the end cap so that I have to give about a quarter turn before i can turn it on by pressure. I think its been about six months, and I'm on my second pair of batteries. I'm only on my second because I didn't de-twist the end cap one day, and my pants felt really really warm about 30 minutes later. My pocket was really really bright too.

[444]

No, mine don't drain on their own.
I own 4-5 Surefire brand flashlights as well as two dedicated weapons lights. I have owned them all for several years. Two of the flashlights, I use on a daily basis.
I have left most of those lights for over a year with only occasional brief use and they worked every time I tried them. I have a 6P that is in my truck console that I have owned for probably three years and it has the original batteries in it.
On the other hand, I have had the two every day lights come on because I had the tailcap too tight and this ran down the batteries in short order. I have also been mildly burned when one of these lights came on and I didn't see it: I felt it.

[black bear]

Two different things are at work here, one is what size 15 said, and the other is that even new batteries 123's can suddently die. It had happened to me with Surefire batteries and also with Duracell.

It had happened to me in Surefire lights and also in others tactical lights (TACM III, Streamlight TL-2 and ASP Tac-Lite)

It had happened enough times that I am considering to put rechargeable Pilas in my lights that I use in a regular basis.

I don't know if can happen with others brands of 123's batteries because what I mostly use is Surefire and Duracell, I have a bunch of others batteries, Panasonic, Streamlight (yellow) and others that have come installed with others tactical lights I have, but those are okay and because they don't represent a big usage I can not say that will not happen to them too.

I have Energizer brand and comparing that to Surefire I can say that it is the same battery with a different jacket, but I haven't used enough Energizers to detect this thing.

But let me reiterate, EVEN NEW BATTERIES DIE SOMETIME and the brands that have done this on me are Surefire and Duracell!!!!

Don't blame the light, it is the batteries.

best regards
black bear

[flip180]

You know what sucks? I just ordered a set of twelve batteries from surefire for 15.00 because, I got tired of paying three dollars per battery at my local gun shop. I guess that price was still pretty good and, I'll use them up then I'll try a different brand. I have an M-3 Streamlight mounted to my 870 HD and even with limited use at the range, the batteries are still going strong and, I check the M-3 periodically to make sure it still lights up. If I used my C-3 with the surefire 123's as much as did my M-3, I bet they would be ran down by now. Well, I'm glad it wasn't the light though.

Thanks, Flip,

[444]

I am NOT saying that a new battery can not be bad (suddenly die), but it has never happened to me.
I buy those boxes of a dozen batteries from Surefire. I would guess that I have used 4-5 dozen of these batteries as well as a few batteries purchased locally (name brand batteries). I have never had a problem with any of them. For what it's worth, I work as a firefighter/paramedic. I have used these flashlights/batteries in all kinds of environments and for tasks as varied as interior fire attacks, auto extrications, countless medical calls as well as mundane tasks like finding my way to the bathroom at the station. I have never had any kind of problem at all with any of my Surefire lights or batteries. Take it for what it is worth.

[usp_fan]

If I understand correctly, Lithium Batteries are designed to give power at a fairly steady output untill they die. Meaning you will be using the light, and when the batteries are dead, that's it, no warning, no diming, etc...

I seem to remember Surefire talking about this in one of their marketing magazines as a feature--something like you get full power from begining to end of battery life.

The new LED lamps don't do this. They dim before the light dies. I believe this is because the power they draw is electronically controlled by a small chip in the light. Once again my knowledge is complements of surefire marketing hype, so take it for what it's worth.

Good luck,

--usp_fan

[444]

That hasn't been my experience. I notice that the light isn't as intense as I think it should be, and I then change the batteries. I don't wait until it is dead, so I am sure I am not getting everything possible out of the battery. But, I am getting all that I consider useful out of the battery.
Battery life for me doesn't seem to be an issue. When I first read the specs of these lights I thought the run times were fairly short, although I didn't have anything to compare it with (specs of any other lights). But if you think about it, you seldom have a flashlight on for a long period of time like you were using it to read a book. I guess I should say that I don't use a flashlight that way: other people might. I normally turn on the light to perform some task and shut if off. Most of the time I am just using the tailcap switch: press it on for a few seconds and then off. There are times when I do turn the light on and leave it on, but I guess I never did anything that took long enough that I ran the light dead. I have a little one cell light (Executive ?) that I can clip onto the bill of my cap and use it hands free. Of course I added the LED head to it, but I have never been doing anything and the battery died.

[black bear]

Well, by coincidence it happened again, I got some rechargeable Pilas and when around putting them in my flashlights, when I got to my Surefire 9 P (that I never use because it seat with my .45 only for emergencies) I discovered my new Duracell 123's were dead, actually 2 of them were 1 1/2 volts (same as dead) and the other was full at 3 volts????

So it is clear here that it is not the flashlight that it is draining them (because this 9 P have been in use for 8 years and never did that before) and with this two Duracell’s dead the incidence of Duracell’s failure is more than that ever happened with Surefire cells, (to me)

I can not longer ignore the issue and I will contact Duracell about this.

This is not an isolated case; these happenings have been discussed before in CPF with a big amount of complaints.

black bear

[ruger357]

That is strange because I own 5 Surefire's and a Glock tactical light. The only batteries I use are Duracell and Surefire and have had 0 problems. Gonna have to check out CPF.

[black bear]

Ruger357,
This was extracted from a CPF posting,

Re: 123 Battery Shoot Out

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Just read this thread in detail and that is exactly what happened to my sister using the Surefire batteries I supplied her with an E2. Not once, not twice, but three times from a single box of 12. Light worked fine, next time she used it completely dead without the faintest of amber glow. Wish I had saved the batteries for analysis, particularly to find out if it happened to both cells in the light or just one of the two.

Now I use and give to family members the Sanyos which I get for a dollar each. Thus far they have seemed pretty reliable.

[ QUOTE ]
milkyspit said:

You also may have shed some light on the SureFire sudden death mystery. If those cells continued to rise in temperature even after testing on them ceased, the cells could conceivably trip the thermal shutdown protection system AFTER the flashlight has been turned off, which explains why we've had various reports of people using a flashlight just fine, turning it off and setting it on the mantle, only to find the following morning that the light wouldn't even turn on.

[ruger357]

Thanks black bear. I'll have to keep an eye on my Surefire's, because the only batteries I have are the Surefire brand.

[Size15s]

Lithium Manganese Dioxide (LiMnO2) 123A cells are "spiral-wound" which means they are capable of deliverying high current. They feature a PPTC (Polymeric Positive Temperature Coefficient) device, which is a resettable fuse.
It is a non-linear PTC thermistor based on a thin composite of semi crystalline polymer and conductive particles. Under normal operating conditions, the conductive particles provide a low resistance path allowing current to flow. Under conditions that cause excessive temperature, such as excessive current flow or an excessively high ambient temperature, the crystallites in the polymer undergo an abrupt phase change within a very narrow temperature range melting and becoming amorphous causing separation of the particles resulting in a large, non-linear increase in resistance.

The sharp increase in resistance is typically three orders of magnitude or more, reducing the current to a relatively low and safe level. It will hold in this high resistance state until the fault conditions are removed. On cooling the phase change is reversed and the PPTC resets to low resistance state (within certain post trip limits).


For example, in the SureFire 12PM the N62 lamp places a significant current draw on the four 123A batteries. Prolonged activation for more than a couple of minutes increases the temperature of the batteries and eventually 'trips the thermal fuse' resulting in the light going out.
It has been noted on CPF that this has occured using the P61 or P91 although this is extremely rare and not easy to replicate. Normally this is the result of using a G2 which is polymer and does not dissipate the heat as well as other models such as the 6P. However, sometimes environmental conditions such as high air temperature and lack of air flow can increase the chance of this happening.

The "thermal fuse" resets when the temperature of the cell has decreased although sometimes this is only a partial reset. It is possible in cases of "sudden death" that the PPTC "porous insulating sheet" separator mentioned above shrinks rather than deforms when it reaches it's plastic transition temperature (usually about 60C but this depends on cell temperature and current draw). PTC shrinkage could cause an internal short circuit and kill the battery.

Al

[Jarhead_1]

Unfortunately, the protection mechanisms don't always prevent problems.

I've gathered a little bit of information so folks can look at safety, recent events, and cases of failures. Some safety tips are presented to reduce risk to one's self.

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1498736

[Chris Rhines]

If you have a Lithium battery short out in your flashlight, you'll know it instantly. Lithium batteries explode and catch fire if short-circuted.

- Chris

[Size15s]

If you have a Lithium battery short out in your flashlight, you'll know it instantly. Lithium batteries explode and catch fire if short-circuted.

- Chris

I see no evidence that shorting out a CR123A battery results in explosion or fire etc. It is actually quite difficult to cause such an event and these conditions are not normal when CR123A batteries are used in flashlights.

Al