Carry at work or not?


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TheOtherOne
January 1, 2003, 03:04 PM
Where I work it is a violation of company policy to have a weapon at work and they will fire you for it if they found out.... but, while public and private places can apply pretty much whatever restrictions they want on their property, it's still not against state law and is not something you could be arrested, prosecuted or lose your CCW for.

Would you carry or not?

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PATH
January 1, 2003, 03:18 PM
School no! Gun store YES!!!

Redlg155
January 1, 2003, 03:19 PM
it's still not against state law and is not something you could be arrested, prosecuted or lose your CCW for.

Company policy, technically no.

If the policy applies to the general public as well, such as the posting of "NO WEAPONS OR CONCEALED CARRY FIREARMS" signs then you could be in violation of your states concealed carry laws.

I can't carry at my primary job at a State Correctional Facility.

That is when self defense tactics and secondary weapons come into play should trouble arise. It's amazing how effective a good quality ink pen can be.

Good Shooting
RED

TheOtherOne
January 1, 2003, 03:25 PM
It's not illegal where I am. I'm sure of that. The only thing you would have to worry about is getting fired.

http://bci.utah.gov/CFP/CFPFAQ/FAQPrivate.html

What about private businesses? Can they post signs prohibiting someone from carrying a gun into their business, even though the person has a concealed firearms permit?

Naturally, private property owners may apply whatever restrictions they want. Whether or not these restrictions violate one's constitutional rights is for the civil courts to decide. But the only statutory restrictions on a permit holder are secured areas such as airports and federal buildings

In fact, in Utah, not even a public place posting a sign will get you in legal trouble if you still carry their.

MountainPeak
January 1, 2003, 03:25 PM
I work at Los Alamos National Labs. Unless you are on the security force you better not carry at work!

Neal Bloom
January 1, 2003, 03:28 PM
Can't carry where I work. Can't even have a gun in your car. Price to pay for working at a university.

sixgun_symphony
January 1, 2003, 03:52 PM
If the jobsite is dangerous and the company does not take adequate defensive measures, then I would discreetly carry a small pistol.

Walther PPK is small and flat for easy concealment. The S&W Airlight snubbie revolvers are good too.

2dogs
January 1, 2003, 04:01 PM
Against Federal law for me to carry at work (on Federal property).

telewinz
January 1, 2003, 04:04 PM
In Ohio although we do not have CCW yet, signs are already up at some stores refusing permission for people carry firearms or any weapon into the store.

tomkatz
January 1, 2003, 04:26 PM
I'm a public school security guard so the answer is no, unfortunately. Most of my co workers think we should be able to, given what has happened at several schools around the country....tom

Drizzt
January 1, 2003, 11:22 PM
I stopped carrying at work a little while ago. My boss pulled me into a conference room and told me that someone had put in (another) complaint aboutsomething on my desk. "oh, my screen saver."

"No, not that."

"The cartoon hanging on my wall?"

"No, not that."

"The blue man target with the holes?"

"I didn't even know about that one, I'll make a note of it....."

"Then what was anyone complaining about?"

"Your handgun certification certificate. Someone said they felt threatened by it."

"It's a freaking piece of paper!"

"I know, and its not like you're carrying a gun on you or anything, but I need you to take it down just to keep peace around here."

"No, I certainly wouldn't be carrying. Nope, not me. Wouldn't even be thinking about it. No sirree, not me."

"I get the picture, now go away...."

Kevinch
January 1, 2003, 11:25 PM
Our corporate policy is no guns.

My particular facility management is gun friendly.

I works with some people who are not gun friendly, so I don't carry. If spotted, they could chase it up to corporate putting my management in a tough situation, and possibly cost me my job.

So - I usually take my "car" gun with me to & from work, leaving it locked in my vehicle (which is in our private lot & in full view of the front office) while I'm working.

RikWriter
January 1, 2003, 11:40 PM
Back when I worked for someone else, I never even ASKED what the company policy was...I simply carried a bit more deeply than I usually did. They can't pay you enough money to bring you back to life.

DadOfThree
January 2, 2003, 02:09 AM
Our company handbook says that we are not allowed to carry "unauthorized guns" on company property. Since I have a CCW permit, I believe the state has authorized me to carry and the company has not said I can't, so I do. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I work 3rd shift by myself and no one will ever know I carry unless I have to defend my life. In that case I'm not real worried about what the rules say. Fired is better than dead. I don't think I would have a problem with the owner anyway as long as I am discreet. It's not uncommon for guys to be showing each other their new "toys" out in the parking lot during the day shift.

Seeker
January 2, 2003, 02:23 AM
I just started a job where I work for a contracting company and am contracted to the State DOT. DOT policy says No Weapons in DOT Facilities (does this include parking lots?), also no weapons in personal vcehicles if personal vehicles are used for DOT business. Policy goes on to say that if DOT employee is in a situation where a weapon would be needed to 'Talk your way out of it' (will get exact verbage). btw at least one other person in the workgroup (of 6 persons) has a CHL and at least 2/3 have some experience with firearms.

Not thrilled by this policy, but am very happy to be employed! Still trying to find an entry-level job as an insurance adjuster.

Tim Currie
January 2, 2003, 04:38 AM
No not usually. Am an assist. manager at Walgreen's. I wouldnt want to carry it on me the whole time, I am way too active. Wouldn't mind having it there with me locked in the safe, and have a couple times when i was the only one there with access to it, but usually am not the only one with access to the safe.

There is no mention of guns or weapons in company policy (I was surprised) and I havent yet talked about it to my manager (who is pro-gun).

Drjones
January 2, 2003, 05:28 AM
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131704&highlight=w%2Fo+permit


Better 12 than 6.

Viking6
January 2, 2003, 07:52 AM
As a previous poster stated, have a car gun locked in the glove box. Not sure what the company policy is but I am comfortable with this arrangement.

Hkmp5sd
January 2, 2003, 08:18 AM
Company policy prohibits carrying while at work. They have a don't ask, don't tell policy for the parking lots.

Regardless, it is impracticable to carry while working. Given the physical requirements of the job including carrying tools and equipment, a firearm would be a pain in the butt. Also commonly work in close proximity to exposed cables/busses operating at 4160 volts, making it unsafe (like working with high voltage without a gun could be considered safe :rolleyes: ).

Ted Bell
January 2, 2003, 08:51 AM
My boss calls me the office's "first line of defense" -- he's the second :D

ball3006
January 2, 2003, 04:13 PM
will get fired immediately. They will fire you if one is found in your car too. I work for a big company that takes the stand that I will fire you and if you don't like it, sue me......so no carry....chris3

Low Budget Shooter
January 2, 2003, 04:32 PM
Dear Friends,

Since this is my first post here since the (I still can't believe it) closing of TFL, I'll start by thanking Oleg and others for the work of getting this forum up.

Now, to the point, I encountered this question a couple of years ago, but on another issue, then also recently on yet another. It basically boils down to this:

Is your belief a CONVICTION, or just an idea?

Case One: A high school science teacher believed firmly that all evidence points to the universe being created by some intelligent being, i.e. a God or god. He was prohibited from discussions of this in class, because the school policy was to teach that evolution by chance explains the origin of the universe. Is his belief in creation a CONVICTION, which he must embrace even if it cost his his job, or is it just an idea, that he will entertain and support only if it is painless?

Case Two: I have never believed it was right for our country to have public assistance, at least not to the degree we have it today. And I do not believe we should accept it even if we qualify. But a few months ago I changed jobs, and could not keep my diabetic daughter (8 years old) on health insurance. She did qualify, however, for a state-funded health insurance program. So I had to decide whether my opposition to public assistance was a CONVICTION, or just an idea that I would entertain and support only is it were painless.

Current Topic: It seems the general concensus here is that if our employers prohibit carry on the job, and if we might lose our jobs over it, then naturally we would leave our pistols at home. So does that mean that the right expressed in the 2nd Ammendment, or any of the other human rights, are only ideas we entertain when supporting them is painless. Aren't we proving that we have no CONVICTIONS regarding human rights, because far short of fighting and dying for them, we won't even risk losing our jobs for the sake of them.

I am struggling with this myself, so I am certainly not calling anyone a coward, but I am getting very uncomfortable with my own lack of backbone on some things, and this is one of them.

What do y'all think?

LBS

Happy New Year!

Ron L
January 2, 2003, 04:37 PM
Well, it is against company policy, but then again, if it's really concealed, nobody would know about it unless it were truly needed, then they may be glad it was in the building.

Redlg155,
It's amazing how effective a good quality ink pen can be.
You got that right. That's why I always carry a stainless Parker Jotter or a Rotring with a steel barrel.

Viking6
January 2, 2003, 04:41 PM
OUCH!!! and OUCH again! I will dodge the question because I don't think of it in those terms. My gun is in my car because I don't think I can bring it in my office. I haven't asked because I don't want to raise the issue. I enjoy my job and wouldn't want to lose it, nor would my wife and kids, dogs and cat. But there's lots of places I don't take a gun because of the law.

Average Guy
January 2, 2003, 04:56 PM
Two jobs ago, the employee manual stated specifically that although the company understood that some people are authorized to carry concealed weapons, it was against company policy. (And this was in California--so I wonder where they stole the manual from.) On my last job and on my current one, there's no mention of weapons in the manuals. Only "harassment." I'm not CCW'd yet, but when I am, I figure if I keep it in my satchel (there's the very distant possibility of search) and don't talk about it, then it won't be an issue.

bogie
January 2, 2003, 05:13 PM
I was told that it is verboten here, so I don't. Was verbally told "not even in your vehicle," but the employee manual says differently. I go with the verbally.

Personally, this really bothers me, but hey. I live in Misery. Could be worse. Could be Illinois.

Lexter
January 2, 2003, 05:28 PM
I'm on the road all of the time for work (sales) and always carry. In fact, that was the whole reason for getting a CCW!

I DO NOT carry when one of my bosses is riding with me...he's pretty liberal. I just put the gun in a suitcase or bag while he's w/ me.

I assume consent unless told otherwise!


Lexter

:evil:

sm
January 2, 2003, 05:36 PM
I last worked where carry into illegal (properly posted signs), also grounds for firing in employee contracts. I left in vehicle my CCW secured which was legal. Of course low profile know one suspected any way. Did carry a couple of disposable scalpels though.

Previous job, no posting against, boss carried to and from work--not in business. Lady sheeple mgr gets on a rampage because of some sheeple newscasts, and nearby shootings. We had been cased HARD, actually shook the crew up. Mgr overhears the boss thanking me for the fact I WAS carrying and had alerted police. He brings his gun INTO store (duh after the fact) Mgr raises a fit " I don't want guns in store". I start to pack up my stuff...jaws drop...ME " Until you will take FULL responsibility for me from the time I leave to arrive here, any business errands, and until I arrive home safely...I will CCW. Me as an employee with my right to carry, or you find someone else". Boss steps in " <mgr name> your a blathering idiot sometimes, you watch too much TV, I own the store, MY name is on the sign , and I sign the payroll...he <me> stays...only one that had sense to alert police and not bunch up and make things easy". OH he did ask what I carried--I had 2 that day...he sent mgr home early.

BogBabe
January 2, 2003, 05:49 PM
My employer has a stated policy of no weapons on company property -- and since our parking is company-provided, with really no other options to park anywhere else, that would include in the car, as well.

The area where our offices are located isn't the best area in the world, and we've had two "disgruntled employee"-type shootings in the buildings on either side of ours. I frequently go in while it's still dark, or leave after dark, and I also run errands and such after work before going home. Therefore .....

Concealed means concealed. ;)

Correia
January 2, 2003, 06:32 PM
My life is more important than my job.

Concealed means concealed.

Double Naught Spy
January 2, 2003, 07:20 PM
I think I would find it odd that if a company had a no gun policy that such a policy would be in violation of state law. At least here in Texas, private property and corporate properties can make such restrictions just as I can for my own properties. The CHL laws say I can carry anywhere except those places where it is not allowed and in many businesses, it is not allowed.

Would I do it at work if it were not allowed, assuming that carrying at work was not a violation of the law? Maybe. The bottom line there concerns how badly I need the job or how well I can afford to lose that particular job.

If you are working for a place that does not allow concealed carry, then maybe you should be considering finding a new home that does allow it.

Drjones
January 2, 2003, 07:30 PM
But there's lots of places I don't take a gun because of the law.

Question: Is it better to respect the law, or to respect what is right? The LAW isn't always RIGHT, not by a long shot...

Texas Bob
January 2, 2003, 09:00 PM
:evil: A good number of the management just assumes I ccw at work. They never asked directly, but they all know I have a ccw, am an NRA member, and go shooting "EVERY" monday night(local idpa). Oh! I ccw 24/7 unless I'm going through a metal detector, did I mention, where I work downtown their was a murder at the side of our building, car jacking in the parking lot, armed robbery in the parking lot, and an armed robbery at the front door of an employee all in the last five years. YES, I will ccw, not one but two wherever I go.:fire:

JohnK
January 2, 2003, 09:25 PM
Where I used to work they had a policy against carrying either on your person or in your vehicle on company property. I (and many others) would leave firearms locked and securely stored in our cars/trucks, and some carried in the office but I personally never did.

Where I am now we don't have a firearm policy and many people carry at work, discretely of course.

seeker_two
January 2, 2003, 09:26 PM
To quote another policy, "Don't ask--don't tell"...

Captain Bligh
January 2, 2003, 09:26 PM
I don't know. My employer has a no weapons on premises policy. It's a tough question. It's easy to say it's only a job and you can find another one. Yet, I do hiring and I see in the applications on my desk a bunch of desperate unemployed people not being able to find jobs at their previous level. On one hand you can say, at least I'll be alive for my family. On the other hand, you can say if I don't carry at work, I'll not mess up a good thing for my family by risking my job and income. It's simply not an easy question.

RJ

Gray Peterson
January 2, 2003, 09:28 PM
Previous job, no posting against, boss carried to and from work--not in business. Lady sheeple mgr gets on a rampage because of some sheeple newscasts, and nearby shootings. We had been cased HARD, actually shook the crew up. Mgr overhears the boss thanking me for the fact I WAS carrying and had alerted police. He brings his gun INTO store (duh after the fact) Mgr raises a fit " I don't want guns in store". I start to pack up my stuff...jaws drop...ME " Until you will take FULL responsibility for me from the time I leave to arrive here, any business errands, and until I arrive home safely...I will CCW. Me as an employee with my right to carry, or you find someone else". Boss steps in " <mgr name> your a blathering idiot sometimes, you watch too much TV, I own the store, MY name is on the sign , and I sign the payroll...he <me> stays...only one that had sense to alert police and not bunch up and make things easy". OH he did ask what I carried--I had 2 that day...he sent mgr home early.

HAH HAH!!! :neener: :neener:

Talk about turning the tables on the bliss ninnies! :)

Walther P99
January 2, 2003, 09:54 PM
I don't carry at my current job, although the location isn't great and there have been incidents of muggings nearby, but, as with many others, there's a no weapons policy and I can't risk losing my job right now. If we're working late, we'll leave in groups to make it a little safer.

I used to work for a convenience store chain near Gary, IN (murder capital of the nation for many years) and I carried every time I worked the night shift, despite the anti-gun policies of the company. No one ever found out I carried, mainly because I never told ANYONE in the company. Bottom line is keep your mouth shut if you do carry at work and you should be alright.

Blackhawk
January 2, 2003, 10:20 PM
Always.

MessedUpMike
January 2, 2003, 10:46 PM
The day to day current activities I engage in prevent me from being able to reasonably carry. Secondly the amount of time I spend in full viewe of the public makes carrying impractical at best. If thing go down so bad that I do need a gun there will probably be one of some sort within reach:uhoh: .
I did have a former employer that did out right state that CCW was against company policy, but mostly because he was afaid we were going to shoot him. I was more worried about being shot than termination at that point to as skilled labor jobs around here aren't to hard to find. We had a co-worker going through a nasty divorce, with his ex-brother-in-law giving us all of the dirt and then some, who a number of us honestly believed was going to go postal on morning. the rumor I heard was that the place looked like "Resevior Dogs" for all of the guns IWB, but i wouldn't know much about that..........

dfrog
January 3, 2003, 12:39 AM
As far as I know my company does not even have an employee handbook. I won't ask for one either.

Even when companies do have policies against carrying weapons, how are they going to know if you are? If you have to walk through a metal detector, I can understand worrying about it. As long as you are not carrying an arsenal, nobody will ever know.

Idaho
January 3, 2003, 12:40 AM
When I was hired at my current job, one of the first things I did was flip through the company policy manual looking for a firearms policy. I didn't see anything addressing the issue. So I carried.

At a social event, later, where a few of my coworkers were present, gun rights came up, and a discussion of ccw issues followed. I was asked point blank if I had my ccw, and if I carried. I answered honestly. "Even at work?" "Sometimes." In retrospect I probably should have either kept my mouth shut or lied.

A few weeks later one of the coworkers who had been present came to me to discuss the issue, saying she was "uncomfortable" with it. I replied that while I respected her opinion and feelings, I felt I was within my rights.

A day later she then showed me in the corporate policy manual that firearms were prohibited in the facility, and only allowed unloaded and locked in the parking lot. I honestly don't know if I missed that in my original review, or if the policy changed.

Two days after that I get called onto the carpet in my boss's office, and was issued a formal letter "for the record" telling me I was not to carry in the company facility. So now I don't.

The moral of that part of the story is to keep your mouth shut.

So does that mean that the right expressed in the 2nd Ammendment, or any of the other human rights, are only ideas we entertain when supporting them is painless

As for this part, I disagree that my agreeing not to carry means that I am any less principled or that I have compromised my values or beliefs. The rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights expressly limit the government. All of those rights, however, may be freely bargained for in a contractual private relationship. After all, isn't the most valuable human commodity our labor (time, freedom)? And isn't that the first thing we give up when we agree to work for someone? Yes, I have the right to do whatever I want tomorrow - stay home and read a book, go on a road trip, go shooting - BUT if I want a job and a paycheck, I have to go to work. I don't have freedom of speech while on the clock, and I don't have the right to be free from searches. I have given all of that up in exchange for a paycheck. By your standards, about the only way to be truly free would be to be self-employed. That is something I would like to work towards, but unfortunately not something everyone can do, particularly in some professions.

Bravo8
January 3, 2003, 01:17 AM
Since I prefer to carry at all times, I just got a job that requires me to carry......:)

Greybeard
January 3, 2003, 01:47 AM
At least one. One of the benefits of self-employment. Sometimes stow in vehicle for brief trips inside school or, rarely, a post office. When going to sites other than my primary, just deeper concealment, most commonly ankle instead of IWB.

piccolo
January 3, 2003, 04:10 AM
Merchant seaman here.

NO firearms allowed out here.

After 9-11, there was talk of issuing Mossberg shotguns, the kind that convert into line throwing guns, but that died out quickly. I think that was because that would mean training people. ($).

Actually, I'm a lot safer out here than I am when I'm off work, so I don't carry at work. No reasonable cause to.

Still, if I did, I wouldn't let anyone know. Although 99.9% of the guys out here are RKBA, they gossip worse than old ladies, and it'd get back to the higher ups via some suckass. All it takes is one.

I THINK that I could lose my seamans papers, license, etc if I got caught, and with the risk of violence out here being so low, it simply isn't worth it.

Ebbtide
January 3, 2003, 10:32 AM
With the KT P-32 it is almost impossible not to carry if you really feel the need.

My company has a no-guns policy that includes no firearms in your car while conducting company business. I'll take my chances, I can replace my job, not my life.

coati
January 3, 2003, 10:47 AM
DC, gov't building, metal detectors. No.

Of course, everything is perfectly safe here and there is no crime since guns are not allowed.

:rolleyes:

Texas Bob
January 3, 2003, 11:43 PM
When I was younger, I used to deflect the question with a question.( Is this place so dangerous that I need to carry a gun?) Now that I qualify for a SS discount without showing ID. I just remind younger people that if any former employee or outsider goes "postal" I'll be your best friend. Brother-in-law, in different state(was anti-until 911) worked in telecuminication when SHTF 911, had a co. lockdown. He and others asked each other if "anyone" had a gun. Young secretary pointed to "Big" sign in lobby, "It is against the policy of...... to carry weapons on co. property." I don't just sometimes wear my seatbelt so...;)

ezoeni
January 4, 2003, 02:02 AM
being a independant contractor. Yes I do. I dont think twice about it.

Admiral Thrawn
January 4, 2003, 06:21 AM
Well, considering it is illegal to carry *any* weapon in public, concealed or not, here in Australia, what can I say... :rolleyes:

So, if I did carry, ever being found out is not an option...about the only time one should ever see me with the gun out in public is if I draw it in self-defence in a lethal-force situation...

Of course, some of you may use the justification "concealed is concealed," and if I were to carry, that would be my thoughts too...

However, unlike in the USA, here it is against the law... so penalties would involve my firearms license being revoked and a hefty fine.

:mad:

Schmit
January 4, 2003, 07:08 AM
I carried concealed after I got my CCW licence when I was still in the Corps. Some COs knew, others didn't.

First job out of the Corps carried concealed, boss knew (even introduced me as "This is Schmit, Our Marine Gunny, can hit you with his sniper rifle as long as he can see you." (Man, I hated that!)

Next job, carried exposed on drop down tigh rig, company issued to all management. :D

Current job. Don't carry. We have enough loaded shop guns around that I'm easily in reach of no matter where I'm at.

TheOtherOne
January 4, 2003, 04:43 PM
I don't know. My employer has a no weapons on premises policy. It's a tough question. It's easy to say it's only a job and you can find another one. Yet, I do hiring and I see in the applications on my desk a bunch of desperate unemployed people not being able to find jobs at their previous level. On one hand you can say, at least I'll be alive for my family. On the other hand, you can say if I don't carry at work, I'll not mess up a good thing for my family by risking my job and income. It's simply not an easy question.

RJ

That's the situation I'm in. Does taking the chance of getting caught and fired outweigh the slim possibility that I might actually be in a situation where I wish I had the gun?

:confused: :confused:

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