[Woody_in_MN]

Not that I need another gun, but after shooting my Molina 1911, I shot my buddy's HK 45 auto. I was impressed - I was more accurate w/ the HK. I don't know whick model it was, but he said he bought it new for around dealer cost for like $650. Pretty rich for my blood. So I started looking at used new design 45's. At first I was thinking Bersa or Taurus, but I see that I could get a Ruger P90 or P97 for around the same money.

How would the P97 compare with the HK's?

- w

[Lex]

I had a P-97, love my P-90 better, and really liked shooting my buddy's H&K.

Me personally, I'd go get a P-90 if the budget is a concern....unless you're hung-up on polymer guns.

My P-97 was a little sloppy with frame-to-slide fit. Functioned great, never a problem. Just my observations.


Lex in NC

[GlenJ]

Ruger P97-will perform flawlesly for about $350/made in the USA by American workers.

HK- will do the same for twice the money made overseas.

I had a P97 and totally regret selling it.

[Feanaro]

The Ruger P series will work. The H&K USP series will work. The Ruger P97 holds 8 rounds(P90 holds 7), the USP 45 hold 12. The USP can be had in DA/SA with a combination manual safety and decocker, DA/SA with decocker only, DAO with manual safety, DAO without safety, and DA/SA with manual safety only. All those, except for the DAO without safety, in left and right hand versions. The P97 comes in DA/SA with decocker and DAO without safety, the P90 in DA/SA with safety and decocker combo, and DAO without safety. P90/97 is made in the USA, USP is not. The P97 costs about three hundred and fifty dollars, the USP twice that.

Had I the money, I would snag the USP hands down. It feels better in my hand than any of the P-series, the controls seem better suited to me, and I think they look purdy. But is it worth the extra money over a P90/97? Go feel the two up(heh), maybe shoot them a little more, and find out.

[Woody_in_MN]

I went out to Sportsman's Warehouse. I held a $800 hk, a p90, a p97, and a p345. The hk had a nice feel. I like the p97 over the p90, and like the p345 better than the p97. The purdy award goes to p97 in a two-tone finish.

- w

[Harry Paget Flashman]

I got a Ruger 97DC for $279 from CDNN. Good gun at a great price. Just checked their catalog on their website and it appears that they still have them.

[Spot77]

My P-97 was a little sloppy with frame-to-slide fit. Functioned great, never a problem. Just my observations.

+1


It's the gun I'm most accurate with.

[Feanaro]

The purdy award goes to p97 in a two-tone finish.

I believe that is the first time I've heard ANY of the P series referred to as "purdy", or given any aesthetic compliment. ;)

[Dave Markowitz]

The Ruger P series will work. The H&K USP series will work. The Ruger P97 holds 8 rounds(P90 holds 7)...

The original P-90 may have held 7, but the P-90s now use the same 8 rounders as the P-97s. Unfortunately, Ruger saw fit to discontinue the P-97 when they introduced the P-345.

Back in June I picked up a blued P-90. I compared it side-by-side with a P-345 and liked the feel on the older model better. YMMV on this point, of course.

The Ruger semiautos may not be the "coolest" but they very rarely malfunction and are very reasonably priced.

[albanian]

I had a P-95 that worked great and was as accurate in rapid fire as slow fire. I don't know how that worked but it was the gun I could shoot the fastest and most accuratly with. I regret selling it for that reason. I sold it because it had lackluster slowfire accuracy and at the time, factory hi-caps were hard to find.

I checked out a few H&Ks but never bought one. I felt they were as good as the Ruger at twice the price. :rolleyes: I saw nothing that made me want to pay the crazy asking price of these other plastic guns. There are better plastic guns out there like the Glock and the SA XD. I know you are asking about the .45acp so check out the Glock 21, if it fits your hand, it may be the best bet if you have to get a plastic gun. If I were looking for a .45acp, I would get a SIG 220. IMHO, it is the best modern .45acp on the market. 1911s are great and all that but the SIG 220 is a classic.

[Woody_in_MN]

I believe that is the first time I've heard ANY of the P series referred to as "purdy", or given any aesthetic compliment.

Get ready for another shocker. Glocks are ugly, and HK's marginallly good looking.

- w

[Morgan]

The HK has a larger capacity, can be carried cocked and locked, and is better for a thumbs-high grip (better overall ergonomics, IMO).

Both are reliable.

[10-Ring]

I've shot both, own the HK USP. I prefer the feel and the accuracy of the Ruger.

[gggman]

I have owned both. The Ruger is a reliable, fairly accurate gun, but the HK, which I still own, is much more accurate, feels better in my hand, and is milder shooting. For the money, the Ruger is a good buy, but for my money the HK wins hands down. You would be well armed with either, but you would be VERY well armed with an HK USP. :)

[Woody_in_MN]

I forgot about the CDNN sale on P97's. Lordy, that sure is tempting - that's just $30 more than what I paid for a used Ruger Security Six 357 - and this is a 45 auto NEW for crips sake. I will say part of this is brand loyalty. I love Ruger pistols.

- w

[bakert]

I carry a Ruger P97 almost every day. It's more accurate than I can shoot, the trigger gets better with use or dry firing. It's reasonably light and it's reliable and affordable. If you need more than than 8 or even 7 rds of .45 ACP for most social purposes you are definately in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[litework]

I’ve never handled a P97, but have handled a P95 DA w/decocker. I didn’t like the gun. It is the very minimum I would accept as a self-defense weapon for a couple of reasons. I don’t think the grip is suitable for wet/sweaty hands or extremely dry hands. I took this pistol on a summer shooting session and the slick grips became immediately apparent. Ruger changed the texture on later models. I don’t think it’s enough and prefer P89/P90’s grips. I don’t like the controls on the Rugers either. The magazine release is smallish and flimsy. For these reasons, I would not consider the P97/P95 guns for my personal defense weapon. The fact that it is well made, competitively priced, and made in the US isn’t significant enough to overcome what I perceive to be “deal-killer” design flaws. Ruger has made some significant improvements in these areas with the P345. The lower magazine capacity of the Ruger isn’t terribly important to me. I don’t like the Glock 21 either.

[P0832177]

The USP is not even in the same league as Ruger! Not even close! The USP is great gun! Goes bang every time! Accurate as all get out!

[Woody_in_MN]

John,

You caught up to my little plan...Your HK is really sweet - I just don't have $800 laying around.

- w

[Woody_in_MN]

Update - CDDN is sold out on their P97 dael. - w

[MachIVshooter]

Both are hell-for-stout and will function with boring reliability. That said, I have never liked the way Ruger P-series balanced in my hand and would opt for the HK. I used to own a USP stainless .45 and loved it, but sold it when I found a LNIB S&W 1006 that I couldn't afford.

[kirkcdl]

I strongly urge all who posted here to give a good look at the Taurus 24/7 in 45.I own all three(P97,USP45f,24/7-45).The 24/7 has the same capacity as the HK,and I think feels better than the P97,in my hand,anyway.It will be my CCW during the cooler months ahead.Paid $369 OTD for mine.Just another option...

[MachIVshooter]

I strongly urge all who posted here to give a good look at the Taurus 24/7 in 45.I own all three(P97,USP45f,24/7-45).The 24/7 has the same capacity as the HK,and I think feels better than the P97,

........And the slide jams in the rearward position past the slidelock when you use +P ammo. No thanks. I'll stick with my S&W 4506.

[Feanaro]

The original P-90 may have held 7, but the P-90s now use the same 8 rounders as the P-97s.

Thanks for the correction. I had thought it might be like that but I wasn't sure.

If you need more than than 8 or even 7 rds of .45 ACP for most social purposes you are definately in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Which will be a real comforting thought if you do need it. I agree with the idea, really. But since the Ruger feels like a brick anyways, I figured they should have squeezed at least ten rounds in there to make up for the grip. ;)

[Justin]

I'm not a fan of Ruger anything or the HK USP series.

[Lobotomy Boy]

The USP is not even in the same league as Ruger! Not even close! The USP is great gun! Goes bang every time! Accurate as all get out!

Sounds like a perfect description of just about every Ruger I've ever owned.

A couple of years back I shopped just about every .45 sold in the U.S. market before buying a Glock 21. If I had to do it today, when there are a number of options not available then (24/7, P345) I'd still buy the Glock.

[pyrotechnic]

USP45, no compromize.

Regards,
Maarten

[P0832177]

USP is a service pistol built hell for stout, as is the Ruger. But, that is about all they share in common. If you want accuracy, well the USP hands down!
Reliability, well that is matter of function vs. form.

[goalie]

I'd buy the USP if it came with a guarantee that I would shoot it as well as P0832177 shoots his.

;)

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Gotta go Ruger on this one---currently have a P90 which I would put against ANY pistol in the accuracy dept----previous P90 was the same way.

Handled the HK in the early 90's when they first came out---haven't touched one since---literally---that's how bad of a first impression I got----it was nasty then---it's nasty now---what's the point of looking at them again?? At least they were cheap back then---now they're overpriced to boot.

[Woody_in_MN]

goalie - U hear you on that one.

Well, I put money down on a used Ruger P97. It is 95%, and I can get it for $220 plus shipping, and transfer fee. That this was a great bargain was the over-riding factor. It fits my hand better than the P90. I did look at the Taurus 24/7, but I like the exposed hammer on the P97. I was starting to think about 3rd gen S&W's - but I did not see much under $400, and I was afraid someone else was going to get the P97 before I got to it. If I had found an equally good deal on the P345, I would have gone that route - but a P345 was looking like $395 deliverd.

- w

[Lex]

Get a Hogue Hand-All for that P-97 and you'll be good-to-go!! Makes that slippery grip complaint a thing of the past!


Lex in NC

[Black Majik]

Apples to oranges.

HK USP is in completely different league. Both are reliable. But the USP is better overall.

[CAnnoneer]

I don't know about the 97, but my KP89 is one sweet sweet gun!

I am still waiting to see a decent explanation as to how it is practically justified to fork out twice the price on a German toy instead.

Okay, I have my asbestos suit on, so bring it on, heckler boys :D

[Flashpoint]

I am still waiting to see a decent explanation as to how it is practically justified to fork out twice the price on a German toy instead.

+1

I don't understand the people that say the Ruger P series isn't accurate. I use to use a P89 to knock the heads off snakes.

[Lobotomy Boy]

It's been my experience that people who knock Ruger P series guns have never shot too many rounds through those guns.

[Grunt]

I own both a USP-45 and a blue P90. The HK blows my Ruger away by a mile. Lighter, more accurate, higher capacity, modular, softer recoiling, better ergonomics and just plain easier to shoot. Yeah, the HK is twice the price of the Ruger but it's worth every penny! :)

[MachIVshooter]

:cuss:

[MachIVshooter]

It's been my experience that people who knock Ruger P series guns have never shot too many rounds through those guns.

The P-series are interesting guns. Very solid, very reliable and acceptably accurate-but somewhat peculiar. I love Rugers, but their centerfire auto's just didn't balance well for me. Owned a P-94 and have shot P85, P89, P90, P95. Same conclusion for all. And the muzzle ends of the newer ones look funny. Good guns, but not for me. I did almost buy a P345-until I saw the LCI :barf:

[litework]

I am still waiting to see a decent explanation as to how it is practically justified to fork out twice the price on a German toy instead.
Have you read any of the previous posts? :) Simply put, Ruger 95/97 series pistols fail to meet my minimum requirements for a self defense handgun. The price of the Ruger is irrelevant. It isn't practical to spend 300 bucks on a gun that you don't like. The Ruger 345 might be different; it looks a little leaner. When I think of low capacity .45's, I tend to think of another, much older design.

[BGH831]

gotta love that ruger
I lover mine put it through the beating(i.e. mud drop sand drop river drop) Performend flawless. Would buy another but now thinking I got ripped at $410 4 years ago.

[HKGuns]

You caught up to my little plan...Your HK is really sweet - I just don't have $800 laying around.

So why ask the question if you can't handle the price? I smell a troll.

I am still waiting to see a decent explanation as to how it is practically justified to fork out twice the price on a German toy instead.

Hmmmmm lets ask ourselves who makes more military service weapons, Ruger or HK? Hmmmmmmmm now that is a tough one.

HK:
HK MP5
HK G3
HK G36
HK 91
HK UMP
HK USC
HK PSG
HK Mk 23
HK 94

Ruger:
Mini-14

Based on this incomplete list I'd have to give the service weapon nod to the Germans. I'd also have to trust their engineering experience to build a reliable weapon. As well, they build fantastic automatic weapons. I'd certainly trust their engineering experience to build a reliable semi-auto pistol.

A little research will show the P97 has difficulty cycling lighter loads and is only reliable with factory ammo.

Is the p97 designed to shoot +P and +P+?

Does the Ruger offer you a choice of 9 different control arrangements? No, you get two choices. Decocker and DAO.

Does the Ruger have Poly rifling? No, it has 6 grooves RH 1:16 twist.

The Ruger holds 8 rounds, the USP holds 12 rounds.

The Ruger weighs 1.90 pounds, the HK weighs 1.74 pounds.

The HK is made in Germany and exchange rates affect the price. The dollar is weak right now which means German goods are more expensive.

All of the above equals your price difference. There is really no competition. Anyone who thinks otherwise can't afford the HK and likes to think they're buying a better pistol for less money.

Are Ruger's good Pistols? ABSOLUTELY. They just don't hold a candle to the USP series.

[Lobotomy Boy]

HK:
HK MP5
HK G3
HK G36
HK 91
HK UMP
HK USC
HK PSG
HK Mk 23
HK 94

Ruger:
Mini-14


And which of those rifles can you go to your local sporting goods store and actually purchase?

Just because a military selects a weapon does not mean it is the best weapon. The bottom line can mean more to the bean counters making the decision than the function, or there can be political pressures, like an inferior weapon might be manufactured in the district of a congressman who chairs the procurement committee.

Personal preferences mean more than military contracts. What works well for one person won't work as well for another. HK USPs don't fit my hand well so I wouldn't consider owning one. The Rugers fit my hand well and I've owned one and probably will again. If the HK fit my hand I would want one because they seem like high-quality pistols.

[Woody_in_MN]

Since I started the thread, I might as well squeek up.

My opinion is that the P97 is not a good carrying weapon, because of size - mainly width. I think the intended purpose of the P series is some target, some plunking, and some personal defense if that is all you have laying around.

- w

[Lobotomy Boy]

My opinion is that the P97 is not a good carrying weapon, because of size

You must really hate the M1 Garand ;)

[HKGuns]

And which of those rifles can you go to your local sporting goods store and actually purchase?

Most, if not all of them can be purchased. How does whether or not they can be purchased at a "sporting goods" store change the importance of their engineering expertise, which by the way, was the point I was making.

Care to argue the status of the MP5 as the defacto-standard sub gun in most of the world?

[Lobotomy Boy]

Most, if not all of them can be purchased.

Anything can be purchased--machine guns, human slaves, fighter jets, snuff films--if you have enough money and know the right (or wrong) people. My point is that the guns you list aren't readily available to the average buyer. To compare them to a Mini 14 is as idiotic as comparing an F-15 to a Cessna 172 or Valantino Rossi's Yamaha M1 MotoGP bike to the Yamaha R1 you can buy at your local dealer.

[denfoote]

I had a P97 and totally regret selling it.

I'm glad I got mine when I did!! Right before Ruger came out with Sara Brady's wet dream (P345)!!! :evil:


Is the p97 designed to shoot +P and +P+?


Ruger states that any of their P-series pistols will accept any SAAMI ammo including +P and +P+!!


My opinion is that the P97 is not a good carrying weapon, because of size - mainly width.


Oh, I dunno about that!!

Here is a pic of my P89 in a Bianchi Black Widow belt holster.
It rides snug up against the body and covers nicely with a loose t-shirt!

http://usera.imagecave.com/denfoote/RugerP89rig.jpg

Now granted, this is not the P97, but the size and width are comparable!!!

I carry my P97 and P95 in a Bianchi Shadow II three slot pancake holster. It covers up just the same way!! It's not the width of the gun, but the holster, that counts!!

P89, P95, P97!! Yeah, you can pretty much say I'm a Ruger man!! :evil: