[Cosmoline]

Other than a firearm, what would you want for home defense?

[joab]

A good Chinese cook type meat cleaver. I bought one today maybe that's why it comes to mind

[Cosmoline]

My vote is for a sharp bayonet. It's cheap, handy, can be concealed behind the arm or back, and is able to deliver a lethal stabbing blow quickly.

[Puncha]

My wife sleeps with an 18" minature softball bat on the bedside table. On my side of the bed lies a surefire E2D and an emerson folding knife.

I used to have a CS spec forces shovel nearby but that has since been relegated to car boot duty as an emergency road obstacle clearing tool.

[KaceCoyote]

Kukri!

[RyanM]

A hatchet or tomahawk would be my second choice.

[Sunray]

Lock the friggin' doors, install motion activated lights and a dog. Any dog. If a criminal hears a dog bark, he'll go elsewhere.

[TMM]

small crossbow, then a large knife or cleaver kinda thing, because you really only have one shot with a crossbow.

~TMM

[fisherman66]

I rely on the powerful smell of Athlete's Foot. I put my wifes shoes near the entrance and dare any intruder to run the gauntlet. If that doesn't work I use my wife's powerful air fragrance potpouri. The mix of Athlete's foot and potpouri is like bleach and ammonia. A toxic cloud similar to clorine gas or mustard gas fills the air and nutralizes the threat.

[akluvr]

Wow, I thought I was suffering alone with all of the "air freshner" scents. It must be everywhere, LMAO Fisherman66! Backup behind my firepower is a Cold Steel Bad Axe, Vietnam Tomahawk, and generic Kukri.

[Gunz]

I would second a vote for the shortened baseball/softball bats.

In fact, I keep two youth sized alloy baseball bats around. They are light, balanced, fast, and services me better than a steel ASP baton. I practice with these bats with some ****/escrima sticks motions. SOmeone getting a bat in the hard points will not be moving much. Pain from blunt impact is pretty darned effective.

I always hear stories of how people keep charging even when shot. Apparently the noise, the adrenaline, the flash, the shock, and the time it takes for a bullet wound to affect a "recipient" in such unpredictable ways that I have come to not rely upon the magic of firearms.

I think blunt force trauma which stops breathing, or ability to move legs or hands will be very useful in close quarters like a house, office, or apartment.

Also, in your own house, you do not need a concealed permit to carry your bat.

[fisherman66]

Also, in your own house, you do not need a concealed permit to carry your bat.

???

I don't need one to carry a firearm in my house.

[Greymoor]

I guess I would call it a large knife . . .

http://home.ix.netcom.com/~greymoor/_images/Bura_Suripati.jpg

[Cosmoline]

:eek:

Yes, that's a large knife.

[Smokey Joe]

Your excellent choice of a chinese chef's knife for HD is without parallel. With it you have an instant choice of blunt or sharp weapon, all while swinging it! But Joab, sir, with respect, permit me a small quibble please.

I feel constrained to point out that the Chinese chef's KNIFE is not a cleaver. Many are ruined each year by people who think it is a cleaver. A cleaver is for chopping bone and tendon tissue, in meat, while butchering carcasses. It is built correspondingly heavy and relatively blunt. Pick up a real cleaver, then a Chinese chef's knife--the difference will immediately be obvious.

A Chinese chef's knife, while superficially similar to a cleaver, is a much thinner, sharper blade, made for fine slicing and dicing of already-kitchen-ready foods. It is not for chopping bones nor tendons.

Funny experience, Chinese-chef's-knife related: Treated myself to a really nice one a few yrs back in a Chinese restaurant-supply store. They must have lectured me for five minutes solid on the proper use of the item. I already knew, so I just thought, "Well, this is different: the Occidental smiling wisely and nodding and agreeing while the Orientals ramble on and on." Anyhow, I promised to take good care of it, and so far, have succeeded.

[joab]

You are correct
But saying Chinese chef knife may not convey the proper image.
A true cleaver ,I think, would be too heavy for it's size.

What I really want is a pig knife

[Oldnamvet]

I would prefer a thrusting weapon like a short spear. IN a hallway or cramped quarters you can do much swinging and this allows you to be at least a couple feet from the BG. I always loved pugil stick fighting and bayonet training in the Army. "Long thrust and hold" will do the job. Also, it is tough to get a spear away from someone when all you have to grab is the sharp end.

[AF_INT1N0]

I voted sword, but 2 you didn't have

1 Crossbow--the pre-firearm, firearm.

2. Scyth-- An excellent slashing weapon, and possibly one of the best psycological weapons ever.

[Smokey Joe]

Joab--I entirely agree with you about a cleaver being a poor choice for a weapon. (One of the many, many things I felt were wrong with "Gangs of New York") It is just too heavy to be easily maneuverable in a fight.

Any butcher worthy of the name could lay hands on half-a-dozen better weapons in an instant, all of which would be razor-sharp in the normal course of busines, and with all of which he'd be well practiced.

[KriegHund]

Small sword.

Stab rather than slash- easier inside a small hallway, but more effective than a large knife.

Slashing is bad in confined spaces.

[rbmcmjr]

hardwood club = baseball bat

But aluminum might be better.

Rick

[bad LT]

Yes, all of the above :D :D

[texascarl]

Drywall Hatchet or Ballpeen hammer + a large knife. Inside a house ballbats, lathi, katanas and such can be tough to use. Walls and ceilings seem to jump out and grab 'em. Enclosed places aren't the claim to fame of stuff a meter long. Hammers, hatchets and long bladed knives on the other hand...just the ticket.

[Nematocyst]

other than the smell of my chaco sandals by the door (ha, nice one fisherman), if i HAD to make a choice, i think i'd opt for a fixed blade knife under the pillow. the one i've got my eye on for 'next knife' is a SOG seal pup elite. that should rip a pretty good hole.

some kind of club would be a second choice, but a fixed blade is more stealthy.

still, glad the k9 is sitting on the chair beside the bed.

[english kanigit]

Hmmmmm, lets see....

Claymore? (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m18-claymore.htm) Illegal.
Pit Bull? We have a lab. Close, but not a pit...
Falchion? (http://members.aol.com/dargolyt/TheForge/falchion.htm) No Falchion.
Vultite Chicken? (http://members.aol.com/dargolyt/TheForge/chicken.htm) Uhhh, ***!?

Well, what does that leave?
The bayonet!
http://www.PhotoServer.us/is.php?i=53705&img=bayonetlunge-m3.jpg
To be applied, with prejudice, at anytime.
Mix with equal amounts of screaming, naked, pissed off, white male and anger.

Night time makes for more terrorizing application for goblins.
Simply rinse and repeat as necessary. :evil:



Seriously, I've got that POS commie repro that my buddy Brian is modeling in the pic. I've got an original Swiss bayo for my k31 and the chink SKS has the built in cruciform bayonet. I'm set! :D

[Soap]

I would go with a kukri.

[Tylden]

I'd call my ex wife and pi** her off, then hide. In a matter of minutes I could just sit back and watch the SHTF LOL

[wizard of oz]

for a defensive weapon I personally rule out knives because I want something that can physically block an attack. I vote for a 6 D cell maglite - especially at night.

[fistful]

Whatever it is, it must have some range. Even a kukri seems a little short to me. Your threat could have a big knife, a club, a chain. Pick something with some reach. Spear idea sounds interesting.

[Smokey Joe]

Fistful--Remember, we're talkin' inside the home here. Anything you need much room to operate will be unwieldy, clunky, awkward.

Spears, chains, bats (except as a blunt thrusting weapon) are out. Big knife only works as a thrusting weapon. Somebody said hatchet--again, only for thrusting, and the blade is pointed wrong.

Swing something around, or over yr head, and all you'll accomplish will be to damage the plasterwork, and knock pictures off the walls.

[Nematocyst]

i gotta agree with smokey joe here.

that's why i said knife.

if some demonic force prevented use of an 870, then shut down my 9mm pistol, what i'd prefer next is a 5", very sharp blade with a positive non slip handle, like the one that i repelled ------- ------- with in high school when he tried to clean my plow with his fist. up yours, dude, i said to him. come on and feel this blade.

i was not the aggressor. he was.

admittedly, he did not see a baseball bat in my hand from afar. he saw a knife only after he'd commited to conflict inside my personal space.

so, i'll stick to my original choice: a 5" fixed blade knife.
sure, ok, i'll add a maglite in my left hand.

but given a choice between a maglight and a fixed blade, i hope i leave little doubt about which one i'd choose.

[homeka45]

Pick handle, boar spear then 870. I guess whatever it takes to protect my family. I got high ceilings.

[BryanP]

And here I thought I was the only one who kept a Kukri "decoratively" displayed on his nightstand. :D

I also have the Taurus .357 next to it, mind you. I'm crazy, not stupid. ;)

[JShirley]

Spears actually do NOT require a lot of space to use in the more basic (thrusting) motions.

They are also super fast and almost impossible to block.

John, I'll take a 7'er...

[El Tejon]

Used to sleep with a baton in Chicago, but lived in a studio apartment. Have to go with knife of some sort.

[FSCJedi]

I said "axe", and assumed it meant some sort of handaxe, like a hatchet or tomahawk, not a big 'ol two-hander. I keep a tomahawk right beside my bed... and a longsword in one corner, 12-gauge in another corner, and pistol on my nightstand. But the tomahawk is my melee weapon of choice, usually accompanied by a large bowie. :)

[Dirty Bob]

Short sword.

Quick, allows thrusting. Leaves the other hand free. A sword is a scary weapon to face, especially in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. :evil:

Regards,
Dirty Bob

[zahc]

AXE! easier to maneuver indoors than a rifle+bayonet, yet with good reach, and the choice between cutting and blunt at your fingertips.

[fistful]

Anything you need much room to operate will be unwieldy, clunky, awkward. This point has been made before, and is very important. However, it can be overstated. There's a risk on one side of a weapon that's too long; and on the other, of a weapon that forces you to get too close to the bad guy. A 12' spear is too long, but a kitchen knife may be too short, especially if your home invader has a crowbar or something else with a little bit of reach.

Lots of us are suggesting shotguns as our primary HD, and these are usually between three and four feet long. Of course, you're probably not swinging your shotgun, you're just pointing it at the threat. What if you had something the size of a shotgun that you could use to thrust (which doesn't take a lot of room), but that you could also swing when you have room. Even if you live in a little dorm room, you've probably got room to swing something the size of a riot gun. That's why a short spear (four feet long?) or something similar seems attractive to me, and why some are suggesting short swords. Axes and shovels also come in a variety of sizes, some of which might be small enough to swing indoors, but long enough to keep you out of butcher knife range.

I'm no combat expert, but I do carry a four-inch knife everyday (as a tool), and I know it doesn't give me much confidence for self-defense, precisely because it is too short.

[Nematocyst]

Fistful & Dirty Bob,

You make good arguments for "short sword" v. "short knife" like I have.

Keeping in mind that I'm not a 'sword' guy - never even held one before - would you (and others) be willing to offer opinions about:

1) what range of lengths do you consider "short" (yes, i acknowledge a lot of gray area there)

2) any maker names you might want to suggest?

3) what's the best way to learn basic defensive use of such a weapon should one want to pursue it? Book? Class? Both? (I'm not sure i would pursue such a weapon - I've got my hands full now just trying to become more proficient with a handgun and (soon) a shotgun, but it's an intriguing idea.)

Thanks in advance for any opinions (and another interesting and useful thread).

Nema

[Dirty Bob]

Nematocyst-870 asked:1) what range of lengths do you consider "short" (yes, i acknowledge a lot of gray area there)

2) any maker names you might want to suggest?
What qualifies as a "short sword" may vary from person to person, depending on their body type, techniques, etc. When I think short sword, I picture something about the size of a Roman gladius, with a blade of perhaps 16-24" and a hilt for just one hand.

I don't know any current makers. I have a WWI German bayonet as one example. It's single edged and very, very fast, with a good point. It's currently dismounted for a new hilt. My other (and my favorite) is my qama, a double-edged short sword that Atlanta Cutlery used to sell. It's quick and has a heck of a point. :evil:

My sword background comes from two sources: Filipino martial arts, and the Society for Creative Anachronism. Both were useful, and each affected my training in the other.

Any other opinions on this?

Dirty Bob

[JShirley]

A good kukuri is a fearsome weapon, as is a nice, large bowie. There are a variety of excellent mid-size kuks from HI for $100 or less, if you're willing to watch the BladeForums HI forum for a few days to pick one up.

I do like some of the older sword bayonets like you mention, Bob. The good thing about a kukuri is the blade geometry and balance gives a great deal of power with a shorter blade, when compared to a thin, straight blade like the typical WWI-WWII bayonets.

For me (66", 155 lbs), a 16-19" (OAL) kukuri seems ideal for most purposes.

John

[R.H. Lee]

I don't know that I'd want some intruder squirting blood all over the place. I'd rather smack him in the head with a baseball bat.

[JShirley]

Excellent point. Good thing shooting intruders doesn't make a mess... :confused:

In all seriousness, what do you think will happen to that head when you smack it?

[Nematocyst]

In all seriousness, what do you think will happen to that head when you smack it? ROFL.

OK, so what do i want to clean up: blood, or blood AND brains?

Hmmm....

[R.H. Lee]

Good thing shooting intruders doesn't make a mess... Well, if I get to shoot him, I'd put up with the mess. Especially since I'd probably use a 12ga loaded with 00 buck.

A solid smack to the head with a baseball bat would likely remove the threat quicker than a slash/stab to some other part of the body. Head=CNS=immediate incapacitation.

[fistful]

I was just thinking:

1. Is a Kukri any good for thrusting? Ya know, 'cause we're talking about confined spaces and all that.

2. If one had a chainsaw that reliably started first pull, every time, wouldn't that be the ultimate short sword for HD? Not that you would actually have to use it on someone, unless the bad guy was deaf. :)

[Nematocyst]

A solid smack to the head with a baseball bat would likely remove the threat quicker than a slash/stab to some other part of the body. Head=CNS=immediate incapacitation. The good Mr. Lee makes a good point there.

In general, if you can crack that pumpkin and damage the neural tissue inputing sensory information or motor regions routing action potentials to the muscles, or better yet, the brainstem (lower back of skull near intersection with spinal cord), then instant incapacitation. Battle over (at least that part of it).

Problem i still have with a bat is time & room to swing. Not that i have anything against bats. I've had one nearby for years. Part of the arsenal (and during graduate school days when I couldn't afford a gun for a short time, it was THE arsenal. Never again, thanks.)

But if we're talking what would i grab in the middle of the night other than a K9 or 870, "bat" just still isn't my first choice.

I'm actually leaning towards the short sword side right now. I've even been looking at some on line, just for grins of course ( :rolleyes: ). {{{Darnit people, quit posting such interesting threads! I've got work to do! :D }}}

<WARNING! non expert warrior pontificating ahead; hip boots may be required...>

I'm thinking the guy has just surprized me by jumping from around a corner or i'm trying to get out of bed quickly cause i've just realized he's only 10' away and coming on, so I've got seconds to grab a weapon. (As opposed to lots of time to prepare a strategy.)

To be effective, a bat needs to be raised and lowered with force. I guess a jabbing gut punch would be useful as a first pass, then a head whack, but that incapacitating head blow would require raising above head or to the side over shoulder (as in baseball), and then a return.

Same thing for a hatchet, tomahawk, machete: up first, then down.

For a smaller guy like me (~140#), that's a lot of mass to accelerate, decelerate, then accelerate again towards a pumpkin with enough force to crack it.

Or am i missing something here? Is "ready" for such a weapon in the "up position" rather than "low ready"? Seems like that would be unwieldly and tiring. I wouldn't want to remain that way long. Balance issues, easier disarmed with arms up and back, etc.

<Reminder: I'm not an expert fighter with such weapons. Hell, I'm not an expert fighter with ANY weapons...just thinking out loud trying to learn something...>

But if I've got a razor sharp sword with a 20" blade with a real pointy tip, from a low position (remember, i just picked it up, or am walking with it at low ready) it seems one could either:

1) come nearly straight in with an upward (45*) jab through the upper abdomen, through the diaphragm up into the rib cage from below and into the heart and/or lungs. There's an aarta in there as well. Incapacitation is not as quick as a head shot, but the stroke with a 3# sword is faster than that with a 5# bat, and with fewer strokes.

or 2) take a slashing swing across face or neck area, then jab.

If he tries to grab it on the way in, or take it away from me using the blade, his fingers & hands are going to pay dearly. (Unlike with a bat.)

Honestly, if it were me, and i had to choose between facing a bat or a sword, i think i'd take the bat. I'm pretty fast on my feet, so something tells me i could move outta the bats path quicker than the blade. (Geez, i hope i never have to make that decision...)

OK, I know someone can erither blugeon my thinking or cut it up with a sword. I know there are lots of knife and or pole fighters in here.

Show me the errors in my thinking.

N~

[Burt Blade]

Just keep in mind that to survive a hand-to-hand fight with an intruder you are most likely going to have to hit your attacker over and over again, with _whatever_ you use. People are remarkably tough to kill. You are in a fight for your life, and until you have broken enough major bones or bled him out, he is going to be trying his level best to kill _you_.

Your best weapon when confronting a predator in hand-to-hand combat is the unrestricted and savage willingness to tear your opponents life from his body, and the ruthless determination to continue your attack until you have done so. With that, anything in your hand will do the trick, including your bare hands.

[JShirley]

n-8,

The only problem with a kuk in the instance you've described, is that kukuris are designed to chop, not stab...one of the reasons (that, and my faith in Murphy) that I had this custom guard (http://www.kosterknives.com/chiruwa1.jpg) installed.

Hm...looks like I'm going to have to go back to active service, if you want to make an offer. ;)

John

[wizard of oz]

I think that almost anything could be used to damage/kill an opponent, but for me it is the defensive possibilities of a weapon that are important. (I'm assuming that I've been cornered or escape is not possible.) What is the plan when the opponent swings an axe/machete at my head or tries to skewer me with a knife ? Exchanging wounds until someone goes down is not the ideal ! So give me a baton/short sword/shield first. A knife second. Blocking is something that can be practised. The reason I suggested a flashlight is that shining it into an opponent's eyes gives me some small ability to affect the opponent from out of range (along with verbal commands). Throwing things is also a possibility. (ie that "lovely" figurine that my aunt gave me :barf: ) I'm also not neccessarily convinced that sharp weapons are better than impact weapons at stopping (ie stopping rather than killing) the opponent.

I hope a few suggestions about tactics would be ok. Take them or leave them as you choose. Anyone who has played with knives or swords knows how easy it is to be killed by them so the priority is my own safety. Keep head/neck/torso out of range and protected as much as possible. Limbs are more expendable. I will attempt to disarm/neutralize the opponent's weapons (ie by targeting their weapon hand/arm) before I get close enough to target their head/torso/neck. Good targets for cutting weapons are arteries and tendons (eg wrist) wheras good targets for impact weapons are bones (eg wrist).The aim is to break them down piece by piece rather than go for the knockout blow. (overextending is bad) Generally strikes coming at an upward angle are more difficult to avoid (try this at home) and tend to hit the legs or arms rather than the head. (here military/police/security are trained to hit below the elbow or knee - legs and arms are good targets for weapons). Actually there is no substitute for physical practice so I'll leave it there.

As far as home defense goes physical security - locks/doors/alarms/motion detectors are vital. Also the entire house is filled with improvised weapons of various kinds. As the home owner, I have the advantage of knowing and controlling the environment so hopefully it shouldn't come down to slugging it out with someone.

Oh - one last thing. Perhaps it would be better to think about a non firearm weapon that approximates my (empty or malfunctioning) real HD weapon. Since my real home defense weapon is my shotgun, it is what I would really be using as an impact weapon (as a last resort if empty or malfunctioning). Training with a hanbo or jo (3 or 4 foot stick) simulates using any long arm in this way. For those who have long arms with bayonets as their HD weapon, a spear would be good to practise with. If I were to use a handgun for HD and if I were to carry something in my other hand then I would probably want a flashlight or cell phone rather than a knife. If the handgun malfunctioned then it could still be used as a short club (eg jutte or sap).

[Moples]

Hey everyone. Speaking as an armchair swordsman I'd go with a short sword. Probably a gladius or maybe a grosse-messer(falchion). From what I understand if the blade pierces 2" into the body, they're down if not dead, though I wouldn't want to find out. Come to think about it a grosse-messer may be better as it's capable of devestating cuts(severing limbs), and the clip point should be good enough as it's unlikely armor would be involved.

Some of the best makers of functional swords would be Angus Trim, Albion Swords, and Arms and Armor. Also Paul Chen and Cold Steel are more affordable functionals.

Martial artists seem to agree that you can't learn martial arts or swordsmanship from a book, and I'd have to agree. However I feel a few books educated me from nothing to very little(though for all I know I've started bad habits). Medieval Sword and Shield would probably be most applicable to short swords.

For actual places to learn I'd think Filipino martial arts might be good if there's anything around your area. For European martial arts there might be an ARMA study group near. They seem to do mostly longsword, but it looks like they also practice some dagger, wrestling, and single handed sword. Of course for Japanese there's kendo, kenjutsu, and iaido.

Cheers!

[Ryder]

My backup weapon of choice around the house is a large (aren't they all?) well made (they all aren't) bowie.

Target the neck. Sure you can amputate limbs or eviscerate with ease but why take chances? Once that edge touches neck it's game over. The bowie carries a lot of momentum and doesn't require much effort to operate. Heads might as well be attached to bodies with warm butter.

I don't see Stab-vs-Swing as much of an issue with my knife.

[Nematocyst]

(After a five hour problem with Norton Antivirus {talk about home defense}, it's now back to more interesting (and less frustrating) things....)

OK, you sword guys have my attention. Not sure I'll invest, but dang, it appeals somehow, maybe with a book & a class or six. (Must be me Scottish genes...).

Burt Blade: good point re the savagery necessary. Point taken.

JShirley: also good point about choping with the Kuks. I confess, as formidable as they look, I'm still leaning towards a more traditional sword. Something about my European heritage, I guess.

Wizard, yeah I see your point about the flashlight now. Guess I missed that one before. Interesting point also about training with empty weapons or something similar. Hadn't thought of that.

Moples, i see that's your first post. Welcome to THR. You'll probably like it here. I'm sure hooked. (I just came in looking for advice about an HD shotgun, and have wound up upgrading my handgun to a Kahr K9 and now looking at swords. Geez, what's next: a tank? :D )

Thanks also for the suggestions about sword makers. I'd done a google earlier today, but found only Cold Steel. Very helpful to compare the companies, models, prices (! wow, some of those guys have some pretty pricey blades, though I'm sure they're justified even if not quite in my budget...)

So far, I'm liking the Cold Steel Naval Dirk & their Scottish Dirk, along with the Angus Trim 1425 & 1427.

http://www.allsaintsblades.com/at1425.htm

http://www.allsaintsblades.com/at1427.htm

The latter are definitely more pricey, but ... i guess you get what you pay for.

I'm curious, Moples, if you don't mind: what is it about the gladius and falchion specifically that gets your vote (or is it more about the length than those specific styles)?

And, you mentioned a book: although i take your point about their limited use, i still love to read, and it's nice to get an overview of training in a book before actually persuing a class. Do you have one or two you'd recommend?

Cheers.

[Nematocyst]

Ryder, any advice about specific makers? Blade sizes, or is that pretty standard?

[Soap]

Coming from someone who has formally studied sword work...try using a baseball bat or large stick indoors. This will give you an idea of how hard it is to swing around in a hallway, overhead, etc.

[proud2deviate]

Assuming I have time to pick and choose, I'd probably find myself doing the Patriot thing with a VTAC tomahawk and a Ka-Bar (yeah, right :rolleyes: ) Failing that, the corner of my bedroom is home to various blunt trauma instruments; pipe wrench, rebar, four feet of aluminum barstock, etc. A ten pound cast iron dumbell would cave a skull nicely. Unweildy as all get out, though. I have a trigger start MAPP blowtorch that might work well in a psycological sense; people generally try to avoid near-instant third degree burns. Of course, setting the drapes ablaze would be bad.

Those are all bump-in-the-night invasaion-by-zombie-ninjas I'm-a-real-Hollywood-badass type options. In a more realistic sense, I'd probably be using my Police model Spyderco. Four inch blade, very sharp n' pointy. It's a near constant companion, and familiar to me. I imagine it would do a heck of a job on squishy goblin bits; liver, bladder, kidneys, subclavian arteries, etc. Insert, twist, withdraw, repeat. Beyond that, I'll be using whatever I can pick up and hurl at a high rate of speed.

[Dirty Bob]

Hey, folks, what's the name of the Filipino weapons maker/importer? I remember them as being pretty reasonable in both price and quality.

The Cold Steel assegai with the short haft seems like a great "short sword" for a low price, if they're still available. Perhaps ebay, if they're no longer being made? The Zulus were really onto something with the short haft/large spear head idea.

One other advantage of a sword is that it can be used through a small space, like when someone is breaking in through a bedroom door. Imagine someone who's busted out a chunk of a hollow-core bedroom or bathroom a door and is reaching in to unlock the door. If you are in fear for your life at that moment (and I sure would be), you could possibly stop them with a quick poke through the opening, or a fast poke or slash at the intruding hand/arm.

I want to stop someone with minimal force, and I think a sword lends itself to that. What's going to look worse in court: a single (though serious or even fatal) sword wound, or 10 or 15 smacks with an impact weapon or 20-30 stabs from a small knife? I also think I'd expose myself less in making one or two wounds than in striking several times.

For me, the best option is if the person realizes they've bitten off more than they can chew, and they run away unhurt. I'll file a police report and count myself lucky.

All that said, my prefered HD tool is still a shotgun or handgun. A sword could work, though.

Dirty Bob

[JShirley]

Bob, do you mean Valiant Co (http://www.valiantco.com/), maybe? I purchased two goloks from them for friends.

John

[pete f]

one of these
http://www.caslerhardware.com/shop/item/deathsticktitaniumsmoothface18curved.html

got the tactical name and everything...Ayoob would butt-burp in his pants over it.

<img src=http://www.toolmarts.com/media/don24sbig.gif>

But from a tactical point of view, not much beats it. Able to be used in close quarters, light wieght but from personal experience, any one hit with one, loses the will to fight pretty quick. A half turn in your hand and you can DRIVE a 2 1/2 inch pair of penetrators into what ever you want. I often sleep with one of these, (same basic thing just not titanium) when i have to travel to NYC Or Boston. The Airlines used to even let me carry it on. If not a hammer or riggers axe, then i would do with what most of the third world does and sleep with a machete.

[Dirty Bob]

Very, very cool. Now we know what Darth Vader uses when he's framing a house! :D

Hammers, hatchets, pry bars, all that stuff is useful, and even a college student in on-campus housing could have a toolbox with a few simple "carpentry" tools, such as a hammer and short pry bar.

I'll stay with my short sword, though, if I ever need to get medieval on someone's posterior.

I also have a Cold Steel mace, picked up on closeout for the paltry sum of $30. Now that's a scary monster! One good ::SMACK:: is probably all that would be needed!

All my best,
Dirty Bob

[Dirty Bob]

John,

It wasn't Valiant, but some other company. I'll have to look into Valiant from home: the golok sounds like fun. The name of the company escapes me at the moment, but they sold a lot of bolos and other edged tools. I've handled the bolo, and I was impressed. Of course, one doesn't need a high-end blade for home defense, just a sturdy one!

Dirty Bob

[Taurus 617 CCW]

"What, that? That's not a knife. Now this is a knife!"
Crocodile Dundee

BFK, Big Friggin' Knife. :evil:

[Nematocyst]

OK, so given that you guys (using the term in a unisex sense, with respect to the women in this forum) have gotten me interested in swords {dammit!}, especially short ones like Dirks, i've been on a hunt for sword info for the last couple of days.

i've googled and google, especially looking for sword instruction information, e.g, classes in sword use (safety, basic defense, fighting, classes...).

Finally, I scored: Sword Forum International (http://forums.swordforum.com/).

After spending the last three hours or so reading their forum, it seems to me that they are to swords what THR is to guns: moderated, informative, intelligent...

There's even an interesting subforum specifically for newbies called Beginner's Sword Forum (http://forums.swordforum.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=21) with really informative and useful info about training (do's and don'ts to avoid removing your arm), what to watch out for in buying swords, etc.

I can see i'm going to be spending some time reading that forum.

I'm really intrigued by the idea of sword. Part of it is, again, from my interest in my own heritage: my genes are mostly from the British Isles (Scotch, Irish, English mostly). Partly also from my interest in ancient human history; some of my favorite films of recent years have included Braveheart & Gladiator. (Yes, idealized Hollywood glorifications of myth, but hey...).

But I'm also interested in this concept: if we get to a real TEOTWAWKI situation, say caused by "petrocollapse (http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/index.html) " (when we run out of petroleum, which is seeming increasingly likely now), it seems possible (I didn't say probable) that firearms and ammunition could become somewhat less prevalent and available than now. In such a case, a renewal of some of the arts and sciences of more ancient weapons - like swords - could be useful.

I dunno, just thinking out loud. Maybe fantasizing about swashbuckling roadwarrior cultures too much, but given the crap that went down in NOLA, maybe not....

NemA~

[Ryder]

Ryder, any advice about specific makers? Blade sizes, or is that pretty standard?

Bowies come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes. I scratch my head at some of things I've seen labeled bowie. I like swords too but carry one around with you for a day to see why they are impractical. Keeping it handy is the key to usefulness for me. My swords stay in the safe, my knife gets around.

I'm no expert on bowies but have had many knives and I know what I like. Others may like something else, that is fine by me. :) I'd not want to recommend a specific maker, there are so many that do excellent work. I can't even remember the name on mine. Bought 20 years ago, it was advertised as a collectors piece and expected to appreciate greatly in value but I just use it. It can not be found in a search of the internet so is apparently rare in this configuration. It is the most expensive knife I've bought. Buying a knive does seem to be a case of getting what you pay for. That $12 bowie in the back of the sporting goods mag is not going to be as useful to you as a $150 knife bought from a dealer in the long run.

Mine is single edged surgical steel. The handle is black rubber (kraton?) finger grooved and checkered sides No teeth on the spine but a false edge on the reverse point. No sweeping french curves on the edge. No humongous gaurd or butt cap. Blade is approximately 1/4" at it's thickest. When carried in it's sheath (black ballistic nylon?) on my belt it shows 4" below an M65 field jacket and so is about 4" above my knee. I wear it infrequently since I carry a pistol and it is just kept handy in the home.

[dpesec]

Well, If there's not firearm allowed, I'd have to go with a cross-bow or compound bow. If somebody's in my home, I don't want them getting close enough to do damage to me. Distance is your best friend.

[Dr.Rob]

If I understand thee forthright... thou would ask... when all musklet shot has been loosed, brace o' pistols emptied... and still... some fool (suriviving by some miraculous intervention of the four winds no doubt) finding his way through that great pall of smoke to accost one such as meself... what were I to use?

Call it hangar or cuttoe good dogs, sharp steel designed with close quarters in mind... that failing a stout dirk or belaying pin is always handy on me way to retrieve me boarding axe. Meat and bone shall know the taste of iron in one form or another... the ravens won't care how your blood was spilled.

That or I'll sic the parrot on them.

:scrutiny:

In all seriousness there IS a cutlass and an axe in my bedroom. My 'dirk' is a Bagwell "Plainsman" bowie knife... wicked sharp I assure you.

[Dirty Bob]

I can think of one use for swords, et. al., in light of the recent problems in NOLA. Your neighborhood is quiet and dark, and someone breaks in. With no police or phones available, a sword or assegai would let you have a semi-quiet self-defense option.

I can see it now: kata for sword and pistol!

Dirty Bob

[Moples]

Thanks for the welcome Nem.

Yeah I mention gladius because of the length, although other types could serve the purpose just as well or better. The falchion though I guess I really just like the look of.

I liked Medieval Sword and Shield. It does a good job of going through some of the basics like footwork, and distance. It's more about sword and buckler, though I'd guess a good portion of the techniques could be used with bigger shields.

Fighting with the German Longsword is very good if your interested in the longsword. They put drills throughout the book, with later ones requiring 2 people I think. Unfortunately I can't find my copy to confirm.

Just to put another one out there, The Swordsman's Companion seems to be well liked by the guy's at myarmoury.com. I've never read any of it but I think it's more about Italian Longsword.

Anyway, yall have a good one.
Cheers!

[Dirty Bob]

A lot of the swords out there were designed to be used with shield and/or armor. They're heavy enough to strike a telling blow, even against armor. When doing "sword and board" in the SCA, I had a shield and armor, along with footwork, for defense. My sword didn't have to come back to a ready position after a strike and could flow into another attack.

In the kind of uses we're discussing here, a quicker sword is desired, so you can lash out and instantly have the weapon back on guard, if needed. For this, I think something in the size/shape of a gladius is about perfect.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

[RyanM]

Greatswords are extremely versatile weapons. With halfsword techniques, their use is incredibly similar to a fixed bayonet.

http://www.thearma.org/Videos/TPVideos.htm

http://www.thearma.org/Videos/halfswordarmor1.avi
http://www.thearma.org/photos/Gathering03/G03Vids/JCdemclips.mov
And swords don't have to be that sharp to cut. http://www.thearma.org/photos/Gathering03/G03Vids/AVIs/Blunt_cutting_7.avi

[eab]

I would go with my Hawk and Knife ala Patriot style.


The BG gets about 15'-20' away the hawk is flying and smacking that guy COM. I do know how to throw a hawk. Then the throwing knife goes, after that my 4 in buck knife and 4 cell mag light.

[Soap]

I LOVE swords. I study their use and I even do tameshigiri and iaido. But let's not be silly and think up far-fetched situations where they could be used in SD. We're not going to be poking people through doors, throwing hawks at them then transitioning to a Buck and a flashlight combo, or using a sword with a 39" blade in self defense. :banghead:

[Dirty Bob]

I LOVE swords. I study their use and I even do tameshigiri and iaido. But let's not be silly and think up far-fetched situations where they could be used in SD.
I beg to differ.

When I was the Electronics Readiness Officer of a ship in San Diego, I lived in an apartment complex. I had neighbors in four directions. I had a .45 pistol and a shotgun, but I kept a bokken, a length of redwood 2x4 (leftover from building a desk), and a few knives, as my first choices for home defense. I was too concerned about endangering my neighbors by putting a bullet through a wall into another apartment. I knew that I could control the small space around my front door with a contact weapon.

Likewise, in Oakland, CA in grad school at Berkeley, I always answered the door (after looking, of course) with a Gerber Mk II dagger in my waistband at 4:00, covered by a loose flannel shirt. In the close quarters at the doorway, I was willing to use a contact weapon. We had a large apartment complex across the street, and any stray bullets would have probably ended up in someone's living room.

Is a knife or bokken or club or sword as effective as a firearm? I don't think so, but there are situations in which I have been unwilling to use a gun, and it's comforting to have something that I can use.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

[Soap]

Dirty Bob,

I have no doubt of a sword's effectiveness. But I'd be interested to see if you could take an aggressive guy with a kitchen knife in a hallway with a bokken. Long weapons don't work well in crowded spaces...and neither do complicated strategies.

[Nematocyst]

I have no doubt of a sword's effectiveness. But I'd be interested to see if you could take an aggressive guy with a kitchen knife in a hallway with a bokken. Long weapons don't work well in crowded spaces...and neither do complicated strategies. Hey Daniel, I agree: no swords in the hallway.

Speaking only for myself, my space is a lot different from most house and apartment dwellers: it's a modified warehouse with 18' ceilings. Read "big open space, no narrow hallways". I've got plenty of room to swing even a long sword, let alone a shorter one that i'm looking at (or at least dreaming about).

Not that I'd choose a sword here either as first option. The K9 and 12 ga. will still be closest to my hand at all times.

Regards,

N~

[Soap]

Hey Daniel, I agree: no swords in the hallway.

Speaking only for myself, my space is a lot different from most house and apartment dwellers: it's a modified warehouse with 18' ceilings. Read "big open space, no narrow hallways". I've got plenty of room to swing even a long sword, let alone a shorter one that i'm looking at (or at least dreaming about).

Not that I'd choose a sword here either as first option. The K9 and 12 ga. will still be closest to my hand at all times.

That's a pretty slick setup you have there! I own quite a variety of lengthy blades from katanas to a Blackjack Mamba. They're amazing but like you, I use a handgun and a 12ga as my HD weapons. If I were pressed into a country where I couldn't own a firearm and I had to live in a normal flat or house, I'm sure a long blade like a katana would be a poor choice. I'd simply rather have a kukri or large bowie instead.

[Dirty Bob]

Daniel,

You're right about close-quarters bokken use. I think that weapon is better suited to larger areas.

Dirty Bob

[Cosmoline]

That's why I like the bayonet. Short enough for close quarters, no need to build momentum, yet big enough to get the job done with a single stab.

[Nematocyst]

in my teens, i owned a bowie & a bayonet.

both were ... 'inexpensive', i suspect purchased in a local military surplus store. cheap steel.

still, what sold them to me was their image and feel. the size that can be accelerated quickly to a power thrust. As Cosmoline says, "Short enough for close quarters, no need to build momentum". Yep.

Both have long since departed from my ownership.

Still, that feeling of the small (relative to sword) lengths still appeals.

Here are my two top contenders for blades bigger than a SOG camp knife (seal pup elite).

Let's put it this way. If I lived in the 15th century, before 9mm & 12 ga, or in some future primitive world after cheap oil, after 9mm & 12 ga, these would likely be among my weapons of choice.

{Note: my opinions about blades are evolving rapidly; likely enrolling monday in a Medieval long sword class...}

One would be in my left hand, the other in my right.

One would be mainly for the insider thrust, short enough for CQ, no need to build momentum.

The other is short enough for a deeper thrust at a slightly longer distance (e.g., upward through abdomen through diaphragm into thoracic cavity, lungs & heart), but can also offer a substantial cut when swung downward at a 45* angle, right to left with some force in the neck area.

http://www.coldsteel.com/88sd.html

http://angustrimdirect.com/models/unamed_6/unamed_6.htm

[106rr]

A Kevlar shield and a Gladius would work well, an Assagai (sp) with the same shield might be better. In very close quarters, a Phillipine Parang or Camillus Pilot Survival knife. I am used to using both of those knives. The Parang of which I speak is shaped like a Kukri but is thinner, lighter and better balanced with less weight forward. The recovery stroke is much faster with a Parang. I have never owned a Gladius, Assagai or a Kevlar shield. Some foam based pepper spray from Fox Labs would be nice to have in a pinch.

[Nematocyst]

106rr,

I've not heard of a "kevlar shield" before, but the concept got my attention. Is it like a buckler?

I googled that term, but didn't find much. Can you post any URL's with more info about them?

Thanks,

N~

[pax]

Other than a firearm, what would you want for home defense?
A brain, and sufficient determination.

pax

I am the weapon.

[Medusa]

Voted Exotic - Halberd: a weapon especially of the 15th and 16th centuries consisting typically of a battle-axe and pike mounted on a handle about six feet long (by Webster).

Also a morningstar and a flail also seem very appealing. To be used in conjuction with a Claymore (too bad about the door and the neighbours house :what: ).

Maybe something like on the included image?

Yeah, that should do the trick. :eek: :evil:

[Soap]

Jeeze it feels like I'm surrounded by LARP'ers all of a sudden ;)

[106rr]

Nematocyst-870;
The Kevlar Shield doesn't exist yet in commercial form. There are several commercial items made in the shape of clipboards and briefcases which serve a similar function. I envision a device larger than a buckler but smaller than a riot shield. It could be held with the fist like a buckler but would would be made of a bullet resistant material like Kevlar. Naturally it would be much lighter than a Roman shield and stronger than a Zulu shield.
I woud expect it to be resistant to the common calibers used by criminals. It should not be penetration proof to the knife as it would be used to capture the BGs blade with a twisting motion.
A person breaking into your home while you are there is not considered a burglar. This is called a "hot prowl" and is very dangerous. It is an entirely different category of criminal.

[Skofnung]

Hmm. I think that a short, broad, stabbing sword (20" or less blade) and a buckler would be my choice given the dwelling that I live in now. An Albion Arms Gladius would be high on my list for such a job.

That said, I think that any weapon will do if you will.

[Dirty Bob]

I'd make a targe or buckler of plywood, if that's what I wanted, but I think, at least in my case, that that defeats the purpose. I've kept hand-to-hand weapons for situations in which I couldn't shoot, mostly due to large numbers of people in the area.

I don't rely on swords or knives as primary HD weapons anymore. I live in a brick house, as do my neighbors, so the chances are excellent that "what happens in Dirty Bob's house stays in Dirty Bob's house."

All my best,
Bob

[Nematocyst]

106rr, thanks for the description of the kevlar shield of dreams. Seems like a reasonable evolution.
_______

Reading Medusa's post about halberds reminded me of a 'weapon' in my arsenal that i'd forgotten about: my mountaineering ice ax. Indeed, it lives near my bed, and I've often thought while in those dreamy half asleep states that if for some nightmarish reason i couldn't find my handgun on being awakened, the ice ax is the next thing i'd look for in defense.

Mine is a Charlet Moser. The head & shaft are one solid piece of steel alloy; the shaft is coated in some kind of rubber. The ax is extremely hard (since there's always rocks under that ice you're chinking into). For dimensional perspective, the handle is 27" long, and the sharp, narrow pointy "blade" is 6" from its intersection with the shaft. It's not heavy, but very well balanced and easy to swing.

I have no doubt it would penetrate a skull or a thorax very easily.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=28786&stc=1

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=28787&stc=1

[Dirty Bob]

I love the functionality of ice axes. We don't have much need for them down here in Texas, but I've always admired the purity of the design. I hope you never need yours for anything but snow and ice.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

[Skofnung]

Nematocyst-870: :what: THat is a sweet looking tool!

I'm having flashbacks from "Where Eagles Dare"

Like Dirty Bob, I have no use for such a thing living in the South, but that thing is cool nonetheless.

[106rr]

A similar but smaller device was used to kill Trotsky in Mexico. He had a visitor in his study and the visitor pulled out a rock pick or a climbing axe and popped poor Trotsky right on the top of his head. Trotsky had fallen out of favor in Russia and fled to Mexico for safety. They really didn't like that guy!

[Byron Quick]

Well, it might take a while to run out of firearms here. And I've got a slew of other weapons: bowie, kukris, katanas (one real one:D), I can throw knives and tomahawks.

If I was constrained from using my firearms, I would acquire something I haven't had in a while: a Korean War era Army entrenchment tool. Open the shovel blade out and sharpen the edges. I can use it in a hallway to thrust, cut, and bludgeon.

I like the spears, the big bowies and kuks, and the katanas but, in a normal width hallway with an eight foot ceiling, I'll take the entrenchment tool. I can get both hands on it and thrust or cut in a hall.

I've played with Tamara's Paul Chen bearded axe. That would be a bad weapon to face in the hands of a knowledgeable user.

For that matter, a light sledge hammer with about a 30" hammer would be good in close quarters.

[Kjay]

I'll opine a short stabbing sword. Twenty inch blade with a sharp point.

[Nematocyst]

Oh, my. That's a mighty fine array, Kjay. :cool:

Are they really all 20" blades? Any AT's in there?

[Cosmoline]

I could use one of those ice axes to get to the car in January!

[Kjay]

Nematocyst-870:

They're all AT blades in the 20-22" range. :D

[Nematocyst]

I could use one of those ice axes to get to the car in January! I can imagine up where you live, that could be an issue.

For that, I'd also recommend a set of crampons (http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/familydetail.cfm/crampons).

Can you imagine the look on an intruders face if you greeted him on your porch with a set of those on your boots, an ice ax in one hand and one of Kjay's swords in the other. (Of course, ignore my rhetorical question if he's carrying a .45.)

[Nematocyst]

Thanks, Kjay. Very nice. I'm looking very closely at his line up these days. Seems he's not making many shorter blades these days. The only short one I've seen on his current page is his 1425 which i think is a 21" blade.

I confess I'm leaning towards something a little longer, but mainly because he's not making too many short one's that speak to me right now. I'd originally wanted a 1427 (24" blade), but he's not making that one regularly now either, apparently. So I'm leaning towards a 1320 (28" blade, single hand).

I'm probably going up to a show in my region soon where he's probably going to be. He says he'll probably have one with him.

I've been rewatching Braveheart on DVD recently. Ah, the gory romance of it all... :uhoh:

[Skofnung]

Kjay:
Good choice. I've seen that picture or one like it before... be still my heart...

Mr. Trim sure knows how to make some nice blades.

[outofbattery]

Is a 185lb English Mastiff a HD weapon? If so, I'm going to change the puppy's name to BUD for back up dog.I've had this Home Alone fantasy of rigging the attic stairs hatch to rain a torrent of bowlingballs down the stairs.

To be serious,I once kept a can of oven cleaner bedside.I figured if it burned the crap out of my hand then a face full of the stuff would smart enough for me to administer a proper 5 iron beating if necessary.Of course this was before I was old enough to buy guns or chemical spray.

[TimboKhan]

I keep my trusty old Marine Corps Ka-bar near me at all times, when in my room. In fact, its laying about an inch away from my hand right now!


To be serious,I once kept a can of oven cleaner bedside.

Dude, thats actually an effective, albeit sort of cruel, idea! When I was in 6th grade, a kid at our school got sprayed in the face with oven cleaner by some jackass on the last day of school, and it tooled him but good. Actually, I never saw that kid again as his family moved, but its my understanding that it did do some permanent damage. He was kind of a goofy guy (we called him Fester, as his old man made him walk around with a shaved head), but he was a nice kid, and universally we all thought that sucked. I always wondered what happened to the kid that sprayed him. Festers dad was a hardcore biker, and I imagine he didn't take to his kid getting acid burned very well.....

[Thin Black Line]

If my 9mm fails, my nightstand is nearby....or even my pillow.

[meef]

Cold Steel makes a nice 1917 Series cutlass with a 25" blade.

I imagine it would work well enough in a hallway (thrusting) or in a room with more space (hacking and slashing). Fast, light and deadly - works for me. :evil:

http://www.coldsteel.com/19serswor.html

[telomerase]

Just turn on the MRI. It will rip all the intruders' ferrous weapons out of their hands as well as pulverizing them with flying chairs etc.

(I guess you have to live in a lab for this to work. Still, it's a lot more practical than pointy sticks against AKs.)

[ocelot777]

You guys are so fortunate. Here in the UK EVERYTHING is illegal. I voted for 'improvised household object' (or whatever it was), because you might 'get away' with it (assuming you survived, though possibly not even then . . . ). Having said that, I keep a dissecting razor next to my pillow, so I guess I should have voted for 'concealed knife' or similar.

I've had actual experience of the UK 'justice' system in this context (him, knife; me, well . . . me) and as a result I'd actually use (you've guessed it) me (worked quite well the last time, apart from the consequences). Oh well . . .

[CT Yankee]

ocelot777, raw deal! On a happier note, welcome! I love this forum and you will too!

I'd definitely go for a large knife. Small enough to move around and not hinder your movements, but large enough to pack a punch. Plus, unlike a blunt object, even if you don't hit your mark, the blood if going to freak that BG out, hopefully causing him to quit.

[JShirley]

A knife has only an offensive mission as a weapon. For defensive usage, something with more reach should be employed.

John

[crt360]

Maybe a nice pitchfork.

[Tokugawa]

I reccommend a nice Nami no hira Yasuyuki wakazashi. It will allow a full historical reenactment as well as free sushimi!
and for the UK folks, "accidentally" bump into them with a hard object and then "accidentally" spill a very very large teakettle filled with boiling water all over thier face and genitals. You do like tea, don't you?

[rs3604]

I use a sword but if your gonna use one for defense I would really suggest you get some expert advise on using one first, there was a guy in a city near where I live that , not too long ago, stabbed two people with a sword and managed to not kill either one, which was really good because he was the bad guy, but I can't see how you can use a sword and fail to kill :confused:

[Nematocyst]

Ocelot,

Welcome to THR.

Bummer about UK. Ever considered US? I'd look at northern Washington to get a similar climate (even if colder in winter).

Pitchfork as a SD weapon. Hmm. That could work.

<Pitchfork story> I was about 11 or 12. I was running through a pasture in SW Tennessee. Suddenly, I tripped, and fell down. As I fell, I saw a large "stick" flying in the air in front of me. Simultaneously, I felt a dull pain in my right foot.

Within 2 sec after I landed, after I was able to raise my head off the ground, I noticed that there was something attached to my right foot.

Upon closer examination, I discovered that 'something' was a pitchfork that was stuck through my right foot. The tine was run completely through my foot, with 1" sticking out the top of foot.

Calmly, but with some anxiety, I pulled the pitchfork back out of my foot, and hobbled home, then to the doctors office for a tetanus shot. <Makes note: need tetanus upgrade>

I'm glad the pitchfork penetrated my foot instead of my heart or brain. I acknowledge that a PF could be a weapon.

I'd still rather use a 12 ga. or 9mm or .357, but - in a pinch - a fork would do.

Like Pax says, the most important weapons are a good mind, some creativity and a will to live.

N~

[TimboKhan]

"accidentally" spill a very very large teakettle filled with boiling water all over thier face and genitals

LOL!!! +1 on the scalded genitals doctrine.

[bad LT]

If I could only pick one I would pick either a very large knife (large Bowie knife) or a small sword (gladious). However I am not limited to only one. My armory includes the above plus a 12 gauge, all strategically located in my residence.

[Sewerman]

how about a very well trained german shepard named Baby Bear :D

[Krenn]

By order of preference:

1. A HEAVY crossbow, built to modern machine standards. unfortunatly, I haven't found one yet. (The LIGHT crossbows available at archery stores don't count: not heavy enough.

2. A Small sword or rapier... or, if neccessary, a low-weight, small-curve sabre. perfect for holding face-to-face 1-1 duels... which is about what you'll be doing in a normal home's hallways, stairs, and door frames, since there really won't be much room for flanking manuevers.

Note: "small sword" DOES NOT mean 'Short Sword" a small sword is a very light blade, designed for stabbing or quick, sharp cuts. usually 30-36 inch blade length. a small sword is the immediate descendant of a rapier, the main difference being that it's lighter.

3. A fixed blade knife, 5 inch blade length minimum

4. a well-delivered martial kick. (accompandied by apropiate graples and punches)

[Ala Dan]

Another vote for a thrusting weapon like a spear~, as it makes for a most
excellent defensive weapon in CQC. :D

[Smuggs]

First I wand to say that I stumbled onto this forum during a google search and spent the next hour reading :) I keep a "sword rapier" on the wall next to my bed. this weapon is slightly heavier than a traditional rapier but the extra weight lets use it for snap cuts a bit better. I think the Agasi (short handle) or any short thrusting sword would do well. with proper training with these weapons you will learn what tactics will work and what will not in your own home. I have seen several people mention the SCA and anyone who has played "sword and board" will know that a flat snap cut to the neck takes a lot less room than one would think so a full broadsword is viable. I think the best thing about a sword is the intimidation factor in facing someone who looks to know what they are about :evil:

The deciding factor should be proficiancy with the weapon in the environment it will be used

[Nematocyst]

I think the best thing about a sword is the intimidation factor in facing someone who looks to know what they are about I heard that. ;) As long as they're not holding a (name your caliber) pistol. :D (Remember the scene in Indiana Jones, the dude with the sword trying to intimidate Jones, who pulled out his pistol and {bang}?

Welcome to the High Road, Smuggs.

Nem

[Dirty Bob]

I think the factor that makes non-firearm weapons viable is that you pick the ground in home defense. At close quarters, a handgun may be at a disadvantage, in that swords and spears can do hellacious damage in a moment's time. I'd rather be shot with a small (.22, .32, .380, etc.) handgun than be stabbed with a sharp, broad-bladed sword or assegai. A FMJ bullet may slip past an artery or intestine, but a sharp blade is likely to sever it.

Imagine a scene from "American Me" with a large bowie instead of a tiny shank. :eek:

Regards,
Dirty Bob

[Boom-stick]

I came across this forum on a google search and it rocks. Being from the uk we're very limited on what we can and can't have, but so far I think I've managed to find away round most things, the HD list of non-firearms comprises an ASP baton, brass knuckles, bowie's, x2 Kukris (one handmade from Nepal!!) a selection of automatic knives, a balisong and a half leopard attack cat!!!

Don't mess with the Cat!!! ;)

I do shoot as well (legally), found some loop holes in the law that allow me to have some pistols, got .22 mini-revolver and .44 mag competitor.

[Smokey Joe]

Boomstick--Fascinating that the UK has loopholes in its no-pistols law! I was under the impression that there were NO pistols in Blighty except in the hands of the police and military. (pun intended :evil: ) And of course evildoers.

I'm frankly glad to hear of it.

[Boom-stick]

The UK laws as they stand allow firearms with an overal length of 24" and minimum barrell length of 12" or more so Competitor pistols and T/C encores with 23" barrels or the new 12" barrel Taurus revolvers with a steel arm brace welded to the frame to give it it's overal lenght are fine. Muzzle loaders are also fine and some clever folks over here have developed some very interesting ones. But the only semi-autos you can have are .22lr or shotguns.
A few hunters have now also won legal battles against local police forces and are now allowed handguns for use in the dispatch of wounded game. So maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

You can also own any handgun or pistol made before 1909 but you can't keep it at home unless it's in an obsolete calibre, otherwise it has to stay at an approved range (only 2-3 are in the whole country). Or you keep anything that is of historical interest, providing it is part of a collection (again, not kept at home) and that can include limited editions, unique engraving etc... on any age pistol, the new heavliy engraved walther P99 for example.

A friend of mine was told he couldn't keep his pistols becouse he's collection wasn't big enough to be called a collection.......he now owns 97 pistols!!!

As you can see, where there's a will there's a way.

[Medusa]

Longarms, such as a halberd, have an advantage - imagine one running down the hall pointing it downrange and screaming "Banzai" :eek: :what: :evil:
Should scare all living crap out of the BG.

[fistful]

Yeah, Medusa, scare 'em enough so they shoot ya!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=159610&page=1&pp=25

[Medusa]

this guy either made the whole thing up and shot himself, or thugs shot him. either way he's an idiot. chasing probably armed thugs out of the house with sword - giving up all tactical advances and a chance to come out of it as a hero. idiot. my thought was to chase the BG down the hall, not run around outside and get shot.

[ofelas]

12" to 15" khukri.

[Browning]

Make mine an axe/hatchet.

Something like this would do nicely.
http://www.wealddown.co.uk/images/Bearded%20Axe%20Eye%20Socket%20close%20up.jpg

It strikes like a club so you don't have to really be trained in it's use, you can knock someone unconcious with one strike so you have the potential to stop the fight alot quicker if you get in a good blow (try that with a knife/with a knife it would take multiple stabs and/or slashes to get them to stop, unless they quit on their own or run away that is), but it'll still lay someone open like a side of beef where a club won't.

[JShirley]

Guys, this one's pretty old. Feel free to start another if you want.