[Leatherneck]

Fox News is reportingIntelligence officers with the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force said units of Saddam's best trained and most loyal troops were heading south from Baghdad on a route that avoids advancing U.S. Army forces and leads them directly toward the Marines, who are worn from intense fighting around Nasiriyah.

Can you say "Highway of Death" kiddies? Lock and Load, Gyrenes!:neener:

TC
TFL Survivor

[Blackhawk]

Wonder if they're moving under white flags...? :rolleyes:

[Coronach]

One can only hope that this is true. If so, it will be a tactical misstep right up there with Hitler throwing his last reserves into the fray at Bastogne... and this time without the cover of weather to protect them from air power.

Lets hope that they can be pummelled hard from the air before they reach the Marines. I'm confident that the Jarheads can take them regardless, but why fight fair when you don't have to do so?

Chew them up and spit them out before they ever get to our vanguard.

Mike

[Sleeping Dog]

It makes no sense for Republican Guard units to leave Baghdad to take on U.S. Marines in the open. Baghdad is full of unwilling but effective human shields. It almost looks like they have a death wish.

But, if they get to known locations of U.S. forces, they can surrender without worrying about surrendering to Iraqi thugs in U.S. uniforms.

If they're actually heading out to fight in the open, my money's on the U.S. Marines. (pretty safe bet) :)

Regards.

[Sam Adams]

The only way that this makes sense is if SH (or whoever is in charge) really believes that we are bogged down. An attack then, and with the current bad weather preventing us from using our air dominance to full effect, gives them the best chance that they'll ever have to bloody our nose. That, at any rate, is my best guess.

Of course, the weather is clearing - so we'll really tear up that column before it even gets within combat range of our ground forces. Then they have to deal with vastly superior forces that can shoot at them accurately beyond the range of their weapons, and our forces have much better battlefield intelligence than theirs do. The results WILL show that this is much more akin to a battle-hardened US armored division from WW2 fighting any 19th century army than a real "battle," but who cares - I don't want a fair fight, I want us to win decisively with a minimum of casualties on our side.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Whatever happens, I hope they're not allowed to return to Baghdad. Don't turn 'em, cut 'em off and wreck 'em.

Any chance it could be a ruse of some type? :confused: I'm thinking maybe we try to encircle and then more RG come out of the north and try to chomp a piece off of us.

- pdmoderator

[Sean Smith]

A force-on-force encounter in the open is a dream come true for the U.S. military. In Baghdad, they are dangerous. In the open, they are targets.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Here's where the chem/bio comes out. Even the RG won't use that stuff inside Baghdad.

- pdmoderator

[bogie]

That's why I _sincerely_ hope that we've still got a few bombs and missiles left... Heck, you get 120-130 vehicles strung out on a road, you don't need "smart" bombs - a half-dozen big muthas would work fine...

[Gewehr98]

How that column of vehicles looks on the E-8 J-STARS scopes as they do target assignment... :)

[Hkmp5sd]

What if Saddam is planning to use chemical weapons on his own troops and blame the US for using them? They are already trying to delay long enough to get US/UK opinion to oppose the war. Russia already wants the UN to cause a cease fire so they can investigate the possible death of 14 civilians by US cruise missiles. Of course, NO ONE in the UN is demanding Saddam's head for executing American POWs.

[Greg L]

I just heard on the news that there are about 1000 vehicles in the column. This could get interesting.

Greg

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

SH doesn't even have to gas his own troops. He can just claim we did and the meeja will prove it by repetition. :barf:

- pdmoderator

[El Tejon]

Yeah, brilliant idea, pick a fight with the Marines. Smart move, Omar!:rolleyes:

[beckrodgers]

*** over ? Fair Fight ? Seriously never learned that ,even as a child. Unlease pure Hell on them,might not win,but you will make believers out of them. Sorry ,its a fight, our whole attitude as a nation may need another wake up call . We wont comment on this further my language will go over the line . Thanks Bobby

[agricola]

it may be worth mentioning that Dilip Hiro's excellent book on the Iran - Iraq war contains anecdotes that suggest members of the army and senior Ba'ath party office holders would tell Saddam what he wanted to hear for self-preservation reasons. if he is being fed that kind of intelligence, and listening to the "learned commentary" on CNN :rolleyes: then he probably thinks he is on the verge of winning.

[standingbear]

it could be a ruse.perhaps sh thinks(an i use that very loosly)that we will be bogged down fighting them while he may attempt a flank manuveur or hes rushing us to get to bagdad where he will use chem weapons.either way,the proof is there,he fights dirty-maybe he has booby trapped the roads somehow and is waiting for us to get at just the right place. i believe he would use chem weapons in bagdad once everyone has massed there-he will then just blame it all on us.

[riverdog]

I think you're all mistaken ;)

This maneuver shows a level of tactical acumen rarely encountered on the modern battlefield. Moving against our troops at a time when they are bogged down by the sandstorm and engagements with an extremely capable local militia is pure genius. The manner in which we stopped indicates we may have simply run out of fuel at the end of such a long supply chain. Attacking us while we are weak and on the ropes is simply a matter of reacting to fleeting opportunities that occasionally arise. Saddam's ability to take advantage of these weaknesses is sure to set the stage for the next mother of all battles.

My only hope is that whomever came up with this brilliant strategy survive the coming days so that they may continue to direct Saddam's forces in such a brilliant manner. Genius, pure F'n genius. :rolleyes:

[Drizzt]

The Iraqis already tried to use the sandstorm as cover for an attack. The Marines chewed 'em up, though...

[coonan357]

I say its going to be devil dogs 1 royal goons 0... and did anyon ever think of saying we are out of fuel might be a ploy to lure them out???

[riverdog]

did anyon ever think of saying we are out of fuel might be a ploy to lure them out??? I just made that up, hope you didn't believe it ;) You didn't hear the running out of fuel part elsewhere did you? If so, great minds think alike. Genius, pure F'n Genius ;)

As I said, I hope the Einstein directing this fight on the Iraqi side survives to direct another battle.

[suvdrvr]

I can't believe that the Iraqies would fall for this. I think that Saddam has assumed room temperature and his sons are running the show. I think they have a combined IQ that is less than my bank account. Meanwhile the troops have parachuted into the north and a second front is now open for business. I think that the commanders on our side have use the media very well to dissemenate misinformation and the media has gobbled it up. I think the Iraqies and the world are in for a few suprises over the next couple of days.

[rock jock]

The only way that this makes sense is if SH (or whoever is in charge) really believes that we are bogged down.
The difference between a dictator and a lunatic is the latter believes his own hype. Is Saddam really crazy?

[Waitone]

Saddam and corps of goons is homicidal, not stupid. Both have seen this show before and they know how it ends.

Howsomeever, I can see the corps of goons loading up a convoy his more enthusiastic and disposable supporters. Top off the convoy with unwilling hostages and attack a Marine column. Air assets are not going to care much about hostages. So the US will dispose of the column and Saddam and his corps of goons get the propagada victory. See, See, the US just shot up a convoy of civvies.

[ahadams]

Hi folks,

Several points here:

1. While SH is no student of history, the latter portions of the Iran/Iraq war showed that his generals *are* just that. This was obviously a contingency they'd come up with, and if you look at the general approach it's a smaller scale version of the WWII German "night and fog" plan of attack that subsequently became known as the Battle of the Bulge. The idea is that if you can't attack in good weather because the other side (i.e. Us and the Brits, in both cases) has air supremacy then attack when the weather is too :cuss: for tac air to operate with the intent of closing with and destroying the other side (see above) before the weather clears. Nice idea, too bad they hadn't read the rest of the book to find out that it didn't work the last time either.

2. If people were paying attention to some of the military PR briefings today they would have noticed that it was mentioned a couple of times that the Iraqis had moved chem/bio capable artillery farther south of the city. The Kurds were also reporting something like 30+ Iraqi mobile ballistic missle launchers that had suddenly deployed into their areas. One of the inherent problems with attacking someone with chemical weapons is you have to get them to stay in one place long enough to hit them with enough VX or whatever to entirely cover the area (this is taking proper weather conditions - low wind, warm temperatures, etc, - as a given. ). Getting them to stay in one place is known as "fixing" the enemy force.
With the wind dying down and the sandstorm dying with it, we're about to see something similar to what happened to SS KG Peiper and the other spearhead groups once the weather cleared after Christmas 1944. It will also happen at a much higher rate of speed, BUT with 1000 vehicles in the Iraqi attack force there is no way it can fail to fix at least some parts of the Marine force, and with SH's great concern for his own troops, there's nothing at all stopping him from dropping nerve gas right on top of all of them.

3. If you're trying to figure out why he's doing all this, it's because armor is extremely disadvantaged in city fighting. Ignore all the yadda-yadda about hiding tanks in buildings and that sort of nonsense. you can use a battalion or two that way, but not a division. In fact in older cities like Bagdad, if they drive a T-72 down the wrong street they're going to have an instant sewer project, because that's where the '72 will be sitting... Also, except for tanks dugin in buildings or otherwise (though generally not sewers) any other armor will largely be sittng ducks. A company of light infantry with a bunch of ATGMs (antitank guided missles) can ruin an armor company's entire week if that armor company is trying to maneuver through the streets of a city. SH already knows that if he leaves his people in the armor and attempts to fight in Baghdad he's just making big targets out of most of them; and if he abandons the armored vehicles all he's done is provide additional fun for the A-10 pilots so what has he got to loose by sending them at the Marines? sleep?

As of right now the ringer is the 173rd Inf. Bde. (Abn) dropping into the area in Northern Iraq also occupied by Kurdish forces who are friendly to *us*. I seriously doubt that the Iraqi general staff predicted that one in advance, and they now have the choice of either letting the 173rd operate freely, or splitting off a portion of their already depleted forces committed to the defense of Baghdad, and sending said forces after them.

Personally being on the Iraqi general staff right now doesn't sound like any fun at all to me, what about you?

[jmbg29]

Can you say "Highway of Death" kiddies?

Oui! :D :D :D