Vepr Questions


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Coronach
March 26, 2003, 02:43 PM
1. I know it is possible to remove the standard black furniture from the Veprs and replace them with wood...but does anyone have photos of how they look so-equipped? Do they have that classic "swept" look at the gas block (?) of the 'real' AK-47/74 series?

and, more importantly

2. What is the difference in 'handiness' between the Vepr II and Vepr K models? Essentially, they're the same rifle with just a shorter or longer barrels, yes? If so...you're trading muzzle velocity and sight radius for handiness. Assuming 7.62 russian, which would you recommend going with, the long or short version?

and, most importantly

3. Anyone know dealer prices for both models?

Thanks,
Mike

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rock jock
March 26, 2003, 03:48 PM
Mike,

You say it possible to replace the furniture, but I am not so sure it is without doing a conversion. I looked into this recently and ended being referred to Kreb's Custom Guns (www.krebscustom.com). Look on their web page for an example of a conversion. They are very close to the traditional "AK" look. They don't post a pic of a conversion with wood, just black plastic, so I guess you would need to use your imagination, or email them. I don't think it is as easy as removing the hanger screw and popping on a new foreend. I agree, though, that the cheapo plastic foreend it comes with has got to go. As far as barrel length goes, I plan to cut the barrel back to 16" (the "K" version was not avaliable when I bought it). If you have handled the full size VEPR II, you know that it is heavy, presumably because it is a RPK and not a true AK design. That means that the extra four inches makes a noticeable difference. The problem with sending it to Kreb's for the conversion is cost - it will run close to $400 for the above work, including getting a muzzle brake installed and a new finish. The VEPR II base cost is around $450, which makes a $850 rifle after a conversion by Kreb's. Is any AK worth that much? I have been debating as to whether I should simply sell the VEPR II and buy an Arsenal USA AK, which are made about 100 miles from me in Houston. There are some features in the VEPR II, however, that should not be discounted. First, since it is a RPK, it is very beefy. You could probably use it as a tire iron and it would still work. Second, the accuracy from the VEPR II's is very impressive, especially for the 7.62x39 round. I can get 2.5 MOA with iron sights off a bench all day long, which is pretty darn good. With a scope, I'll bet I could get down to 1.5 MOA. That is unheard of for most AK variants.

Coronach
March 26, 2003, 03:57 PM
Copy, re: the difficulty of putting different furniture on it.

You advise the shorter Vepr K? How much accuracy and muzzle velocity are you sacrificing?

~$450, for the base cost?

Thanks,
Mike

rock jock
March 26, 2003, 04:05 PM
That, I have no idea. Actually, I would interested in knowing the answer myself. I would think, however, given the much heavier bullet weight of the Russian round vs. the 5.56 NATO that the percent reduction in velocity would be much less in 16" vs. 20" barrel for the two respective rifles.

Yes, around $450 for the base cost, plus or minus $30.

Coronach
March 26, 2003, 04:08 PM
eh....my brain hurts. You're saying that the...velocity loss for the 7.62 round would be less than for the 5.56, given the same change in bbl length?

Mike

rock jock
March 26, 2003, 04:37 PM
As a percentage, yes. (I think so anyway).

Edited to say: I did a little research. Depending on the bullet (HP or FMJ), it looks like you lose about 80 fps with a 7.62x39 when you go from 20" to 16". This is vs. a reduction of 130 fps with an AR in 5.56 NATO. With original velocities of 2400 pfs and 3250 fps, respectively, this gives a reduction of 3.3% and 4.0%. The difference, actually, is much less than what I would have thought. Also, these velocities are MV. I don't know what they would be at 50, 100, 200 yds.

priv8ter
March 26, 2003, 04:45 PM
ummm...just to get involved in the barrel length vs velocity vs mass discussion:

I believe that a lighter projectile will obtain a higher percentage of it's design velocity from a shorter barrel than a heavier projectile.

That is somewhat of the reason behind the 125gr .357 loads...quicker to accelerate out of a snubby barrel.

Now...out of a rifle barrel, if you reloaded I'm sure with some tinkering of powders and bullet weights, you could load your own shells to get maximum efficiency out of a 16" barrel.

Or, I could have had too much to drink last night and still be feling the effects...

Greg

rock jock
March 26, 2003, 05:02 PM
I believe that a lighter projectile will obtain a higher percentage of it's design velocity from a shorter barrel than a heavier projectile.
I thought it was the opposite, that a heavier projectile would conserve more of its momentum when fired from a shorter barrel. Of course, this is where my knowledge of firearms ends and physics begins and its been a few years since I studied this principle so feel free to correct me.

Coronach
March 26, 2003, 05:17 PM
well, higher mass will retain velocity better over lower mass (all else equal) over distance, but the issue is that in the barrel the bullet is still being accelerated...and less massive bullets accelerate faster (for the same reasons as above)...so...chopping barrel length should affect the more massive bullet more strongly...I think. Erk.

Gahh. Like I said, my brain hurts.


Soooo....
Anyone have muzzle velocity numbers for the different bbl lengths with 7.62 russian? how much are you giving up, and how much does that matter?

Anyone? Bueller?

Mike

rock jock
March 26, 2003, 05:44 PM
It doesn't matter what happens in the barrel, because onvce the bullet leaves the barrel, conservation of momentum will primarily dictate velocity reduction (yes, along with bullet geometry). See the numbers I posted above. I would like to have these confirmed though.

Correia
March 26, 2003, 06:30 PM
I wish I had a chronograph and I would get some numbers for you guys. I have a Vepr K in 7.62x39.

It is scary accurate for an AK. I hate the buck horn sights, I'm taking a hard look at their new Galil style Vepr. Unfortunatly it is way overpriced.

Dealer cost on the Vepr is just under $500 IIRC.

As for the 20 vs. the 16. It depends. Do you like muzzle heavy, or really muzzle heavy? :) Seriously though, the handguard is way overweight.

On the bright side my Vepr is amazingly reliable, and is pretty darn accurate for an AK.

Coronach
March 26, 2003, 07:17 PM
I think that just answered my question for me. If the shortened K version feels nose-heavy, the longer version must feel, well, worse.

Mike

PS edited to add- only 80fps? Feh. Vepr K it is, I suppose.

goon
March 26, 2003, 10:37 PM
I had a 223 VEPR K. It was a reliable and accurate rifle, but too nose heavy. I found that most of that extra weight was in the handguard. I swear, you could have used that thing as a baseball bat. I don't know why they put something that heavy on the front end of a rifle.
Having said that, the 308 version is on my wish list.
I just wish I had bought one before I discovered C&R's...

gun-fucious
March 27, 2003, 12:39 AM
Wes can make you a nice wooden stock set:
http://www.concentric.net/~ldrennan/Page2.html

TangSafetyM77
March 27, 2003, 12:07 PM
FWIW, I had a VEPR K in .223. Very accurate for an AK, but too heavy for anything but bench/bipod work. I have tweaked min-14's that will shoot with the VEPR, but at 2 pounds lighter. I would imagine the 20" version would be extremely unwieldy. I traded away my VEPR.

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