[Hawk]

In a recent flurry of internet search engine use, I stumbled across the factoid that the Winchester 21 did not have a rib extension.

It did not appear to suffer by the omission of the rib extension, and it seems that it would be advantageous from a loading / unloading standpoint.

So, the SxS noob wonders:

What did Winchester do that was magic permitting the omission of the rib extension (I'm assuming this happened without loss of function or "tightness")?

Are any modern quality SxS's made without a rib extension? I checked various web sites and most don't have "top down" pictures. Interestingly enough, Westley Richards looks to have a "doll's head" extension while Remington Spartan (?!) appears to have a clean (model 21) breechface (might be a poor pic, don't know).

I don't have much of a chance of ever owning a 21 or the current Connecticut version of same, but it seems that something as desirable as, I assume, a clean breechface would be hasn't turned up elsewhere.

So, in layman's terms, what's the skinny on leaving off the extension on a premium SxS and how come we don't see more of it?

TIA

[PJR]

Actually many of the truly high end sxs (Purdey, Boss, Holland, etc.) don't have a rib extension or doll's head. Purdey does have a triple bite locking system where a lug comes out of the standing breech but even it isn't offered on all of its guns. Some fair to middling shotguns do have rib extensions however, Laurona for example. The presence or absence of a rib extension or doll's head is not an indicator of quality. There is also the Greener side bolt locking system also known as the Kersten locking system which is commonly found on European guns such as the Merkel or higher end Beretta over/unders.

The Winchester 21 achieved its reputation for durability because it is a relatively large and heavy shotgun compared to its English counterparts. I once saw a high grade 21 on the rack at Churchill's in West Wycombe and among the English guns it stood out like a fat girl at a debutante's cotillion.

[Dave McCracken]

The 21 was built as a competition gun,capable of shooting lots of times without failure. Most run well over 7 lbs, except the subguages.

Be that as it may, local 21 fans like Al Clark tell me that some gizmo on the lug surface comes loose and has to be rebrazed or soldered. They think it's worth it.

The Doll's Head extension is not universal. I did have a nice little French/Belgian double with one, along with a hidden third lug. That did lock up like the proverbial Swiss Bank Vault.

[Hawk]

I've never actually seen, much less handled, a 21. Never occured to me it might be "like a fat girl at a debutante's cotillion". Certainly makes sense, though.

Was this "back in the day" when a SxS was considered a viable competition platform?

I've been paying attention to the threads regarding the O/U generally handing the SxS its az and hat at clays, and the superposed was a JMB design in the '30's, I believe. I wouldn't have guessed the SxS would have held on long enough for the 21 to still be viable in the late '60's (when I remember lusting after the Grand American as a high school student).

Methinks I'm in dire need of some historical perspective. Although I'm in my mid-50's, my firearm experience is only about 10 years - a couple of years in my teens, several in my mid 20's (870TB era) and the last 4 years.

Filling in the gaps is a bear.
...and Parker did make stuff other than ball point pens, it seems.

Thank you, gentlemen.

[Dave McCracken]

Side by sides had pretty much disappeared from the competitive scene by 1960, IIRC. Some exceptions still exist. Hal M Hare, current Captain of the All American Skeet team, uses a custom built 21. His 12 gauge average is about 99.9.

The Superposed's glory days were post WWII. Few sold here in the 30s, the Depression had an effect.

Parker made plenty of great shotguns....

[PJR]

Was this "back in the day" when a SxS was considered a viable competition platform?
Hey, I'm not that old. It was about 6 years ago.

The Winchester Model 21 wasn't built primarly as a competition gun but there were various competition versions manufactured. Like most sxs shotguns made in America during that era they were designed to hold up to continuous shooting of heavy loads.

What makes American guns different than their European counterparts is the need to go a long time between servicing. They also needed to be multi-funcitonal and suitable for upland game and waterfowling. While an English upland or driven game gun is light and fast, their watefowling guns are a lot heavier -- much like a Model 21.

If you want to learn more about sxs guns I'd search for the book "Best Guns, Revised Edition," by Micheal MacIntosh. It's a pretty good overview on them.