[zookrider]

How many rounds of a given brand of ammo should you put through a weapon for it to be considered reliable. For instance, say I use WWB for plinking, practice, etc., but I want to use MagSafe or some other high end defensive round for ccw/hd. At $2 a round it is not economically feasible to put 100+ rounds of the good stuff down range to make sure my weapon likes it. I'd hate to find out that my weapon isn't fond of my chosen sd load mid gun fight.

[1 old 0311]

On a wheel gun I feel safe after a box. On a semi auto I put 500 rounds of hard ball through it. I also use Mag Safe. It has the same profile as hardball so I usually just do a few mags.

Kevin

[Cueball]

With a critical purpose like HD, I would say a couple boxes at minimum to see how it feeds, etc. Your life is worth more than $200. Don't chance it.

[Mulliga]

At least 200, preferably 400.

If you can't afford "the good stuff," use the cheap stuff for defense (assuming the cheap stuff is 100% reliable).

[Delmar]

It's been my experience that a wheel gun is either going to work for you or it isn't. My criteria is COM at 15 yards, no bigger than a pie plate.

For autoloaders, I want the reliability and have not had many issues. I practice malfunction drills on a regular basis, and have loaded up rounds with no powder and a spent primer and mix them in with my range loads in no particular order.

Murphy's law

[MICHAEL T]

First off I would get a better round for SD than Mag safe I would go with Fed Speer,Gold Dot. Any good HP that doesn't cost 2 bucks a pop and has been proven to work. I don't know any Police of Feds that carries that stuff. Then you could do a 100 round test and know your weapon works and your better armed.

[RyanM]

MagSafe Ammunition Demonstrates Inadequate Terminal Performance for General-Purpose Personal Defense Use (http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number3/article432.htm).

For a wheelgun, 5 shots is enough to figure out where the POI is relative to the POA (for fixed sights), and 10-15 is usually enough to get adjustable sights set. Maybe another box to make sure you aren't getting light primer strikes or anything, and to see how bad the flash and blast are. That's really all you need. If it's a Taurus or Rossi, dryfire a couple hundred times to make sure the cylinder won't bind up, and you're good to go with any ammo.

[Black Majik]

Not only do I check to see if the gun is reliable, I also check to see if the ammo is reliable in the gun, so test the ammo out also before using it for HD or carry!

Around 200 -300 rounds without trouble is my minimum.

[71Commander]

300 rounds. It probably should be a higher number.

[only1asterisk]

500 rounds of mixed ammo on the gun and 50 round of chosen defensive ammo through each magazine I intend to carry. If you want to shoot magsafe a revolver might be cheaper to proof.

David

[aaronrkelly]

Ehh, looks like Im deficient when qualifying my guns for carry. After 200 trouble free rounds mine can be carried. Then I will run 1 box of carry ammo thru the gun and if it passes - cock, lock and carry.

I will say I DO shoot the carry ammo after running 50 WWB thru the gun to get it "dirty"......I really need to collect pocket lint and dust to cram inside the gun for the real affect but I dont have any right now. ;)

[Moonclip]

50-100 at most is generally considered good for a revolver. 200 is a generally accepted minimum for a autoloader with the load you will be using for defense.


I read a gunwriter say though that a gun had to be fired 1000 times before he trusted it though!

[ceg35173]

My department requires that a semi-auto must fire a course of 500 rds with an instructor present before being allowed to carry on duty.

[BluesBear]

I agree 100% that Mag-Safe nor Glaser is good for Generap Purpose Self Defense use.
However I maintain that is it GREAT for certain applications.

I have been know to carry it on certain occasions.
True it's expensive. But since I'm not going to carry it 24/7 I only need to know if it will function and where it will hit.

Both are easy to ascertain. For example my .45 auto.
It will feed and eject everything and anything. So I take one of my most reliable magazines and use it. Now the most problematic rounds in a magazine are the first two and the last two.
I begin with five 6 round packs ALL with the same lot number. I dump all 30 rounds out together.
I load two Glasers, four standard hollow points and then two more Glasers. (yes I bet my life on 8-d magazines)
I fire this selection 3 times. IF all goes 100% I load eight and shoot them.
IF all is still at 100% I consider it reliable.
So far I have fired 20 rounds of Glaser. That leaves me with 10 to use for those certain times when I am concerned about overpenetration or riccochets.
30 rounds should be less than $50.
If you're still concerned then double the 2/4/2 drills and triple the All-8 drills and you'll still spend less than $100.

The key is use a proven reliable gun with your best proven reliable magazine.


I often think that some people overdo the reliablility issue.
Please read on before you hit the flame key.
For instance if you have fired 2000 of WWB and never had a problem and 1000 rounds of Federal Hyrda-Shok and 500 rounds of Speer Gold Dot without a single malfunction and one day you fire 100 rounds of Golden Saber with zero malfunctions it would be fairly safe to say that the gun will be as reliable with Golden Sabre as has with everything else.

[nyresq]

any new auto should have at least 500 -1000 rounds through it to break it in before it should be considered for duty carry (or self defense).

my personal reccomendation is 100 rounds for a revolver and 200 rounds in an auto using the exact mags you will carry, and the exact loading you want to use. meaning do not use remington 124gr 9mm for carry if you used 124gr federal for testing. same ammo, same mags, no exception.

I will generally shoot a few mags of the selected carry round with a clean gun, and then a few hundred rounds of practice ammo, then fire another hundred rounds in the dirty gun to make sure it will still work after sitting in a holster collecting dust for a few weeks if it hasn't been shot for a while.

just my own preference, if I haven't put at least 1000 rounds with a quarter of that in duty ammo through it, I won't trust my life to it.

[rick_reno]

I put a 1000 rnds thru a semi-auto handgun before it get carried. Ammo is a mix of factory and handloads. Revolvers get less attention, I've never experienced a problem with one.

[Jim K]

My recommendation is a minimum of 200 consecutive rounds without any failure with the carry ammo and EACH carry magazine. There is no point in practicing or determining reliability with cheap ammo while relying on some "high price" stuff for carry if you don't even know the carry ammo will work.

Sure it will cost money, but if you have a real need to protect your life, not just get your kicks out of carrying a gun, you will spend the money. A couple of hundred dollars is cheap insurance.

Jim

[Model520Fan]

They are just opinions. Here's mine: 2 or 3 magfuls through EACH mag with your carry ammo, with NO problems, unless you think you need to "break in" the pistol. With a revolver, at least 30 rounds or so to be sure there are no ignition problems with the ammo.

New or used, the gun should be cleaned and lubed, at least after use, but, better, before and after use.

If you care about reliability, you won't carry an auto without a backup, and it's usually better to have a revolver as a backup. You really shouldn't go without a backup even if your primary is a revolver.

[W Turner]

Semi-Auto: 200 consecutive rounds of FMJ with no stoppages + 2 boxes of carry ammo. Rotate all mags so that they are all tested with both types of ammo

Revolver: Disassemble, look for abnormal wear, reassemble, run function checks; shoot two boxes of carry ammo, load, carry.


W

[bountyhunter]

With a revolver, the answer is about six.

[Malamute]

"With a revolver, the answer is about six."


That's about how I see it, tho you can dry fire one a bit, and look to see if the firing pin is coming through the frame, and have confidence that it will function and fire.



Didn't we have this thread a short while ago?

[ditzybabe]

I think you get what you pay for. Buy a brand new gun and use top quality ammo. Spend a fair amount of green. A tuned, precision made gun is reliable from the start. I've seen El Cheapo autos jam from the beginning. Wheel guns, on the other hand, jam when worn out. Soft springs give miss fires and anything fails if dirty enough. Crappy guns break, too.

I've seen US made cheap ammo run 30% duds. Surplus ammo sucks too. Keep fresh ammo on hand and crank off the old stuff if you want to improve your aim or buff in the contacting surfaces of your bargain weapon. I hear the Environmental Protection Agency got involved in gun control, through the pollution contribution, by changing the approved formulation of primer compounds. All in the interest of public safety, of course. Thank you Mr. Clinton. Seems the new stuff now has a predictable shelf life. 2 years is the number I heard.

For home defense I favor a big DA wheel gun for the five/six fresh primers on board, if a shotgun isn't handy, 'though the only home invasion confrontation I can claim involved the element of surprise and a large caliber wooden baseball bat.

[BluesBear]

I've seen US made cheap ammo run 30% duds. Unless it was stored underwater that was a gun problem. Even POS A-Merc will fire better that that.Surplus ammo sucks too.Unless it was stored underwater of right next to a blast furnace you had a gun problem. i have fired a truckload of surplus ammo over the past 40 years and I can count the total duds on one hand. Even with 50 & 60 year old ammo.I hear the Environmental Protection Agency got involved in gun control, through the pollution contribution, by changing the approved formulation of primer compounds.You've heard wrong.






By the way...
Welcome ABoard™

[Malamute]

What Blues said.



The primer shelf life was a rumor that started in the early/mid 90's, and caused The Great Primer Famine of that era. It was an unfounded rumor, the ammo companies said it was not possible to make primers with a short, finite shelf life. The rational at the time was to limit the amount of ammo anyone could "stockpile". The EPA angle was mentioned also, tho I don't think as often.


The believers in autos, no matter what the cost, say they sometimes have stoppages for the first few hundred rounds.


I'm rather partial to used guns, particularly clean older Smiths.


and Welcome Ditz

[EddieCoyle]

I'm rather partial to used guns, particularly clean older Smiths.

I'm with you on that. The best gun I own is a Smith 4506 that I bought used. I've fired 1000's of rounds of everything imaginable through it and never had a jam or misfeed.

[rockstar.esq]

Reading this thread makes me happy my carry piece is a 5 shot .44 spl loaded with plain old lead bullets. Personally, I hear an awful lot of money getting spent so that some gun owner can feel better about the gun they chose. Frankly, if the thought of carrying the most reliable ammo you can find in your carry piece gets you all worked up, perhaps you didn't get the right gun. This isn't another "Pro .45" arguement so much as that I tend to think that all the gnashing about the differences between hollowpoints of the same caliber or frangibles of the same caliber all comes down to slight differences in performance. Very few CCW packers will ever have to draw their weapon let alone fire it, should that bullet fail to stop the threat you could always oh I don't know FIRE AGAIN!!! Now there is a distant chance that Nazi frogmen will attack and this poor sap is the first line of America's defence...Best keep 4 loaded mags on hand