[ravinraven]

The monority leader can't stop a congressional investigation of the NO frolicing. Why is she bad-mouthing the effort before it even begins?

rr

[countertop]

Because it will end up looking real real bad for Democrat politicians in Louisiana and the parties biggest national supporters - environmentalists - while at the same time absolving the Bush administration of almost any blame for the debacle.

[c_yeager]

All their bleating about the Republican administration's culpability in this disaster is a flimsy house of cards at best. The investigation is a nice stiff breeze.

[Zundfolge]

countertop +1

[Preacherman]

There's a vitally important local, Louisiana-only angle to this that you're missing.

1. Louisiana's State government is reliably Democrat. This is because more than half the voters in the State live(d) in New Orleans, where the Democratic party machine made sure that the public purse was wide open - welfare, etc. was handed out on a plate. There were hundreds of thousands of people who didn't work for their living. That voter base is now scattered to the four winds. Will they be in the State to vote next election? Already there's talk among our politicians of allowing people to vote out-of-State if they evacuated post-Katrina (which would be unconstitutional, IMHO, if they had subsequently obtained other States' identity documents, established residence there, etc.). The local politicians are scared stiff that they're about to lose the State to the Republicans.

2. There used to be two reliable Democratic Senate seats in Louisiana. These were under threat even before Katrina, and last year a Republican won one of those seats (Sen. Vitter) for the first time. The other is held by Sen. Landrieu, who famously threatened to slap President Bush last week. Her chances of re-election in the absence of that reliable Democratic voting bloc in New Orleans just went down the toilet - unless the situation can be "spun" to keep voters from jumping ship.

So, the national Democratic Party can be relied upon to do everything in their power to prevent the (Democrat) Mayor and city government of New Orleans, and the (Democrat) governor and government of Louisiana, from being exposed as incompetent nitwits who haven't got the brains to pound sand, never mind manage a disaster situation. This, of course, is precisely what any objective, independent inquiry will establish (starting with the question "Ms. Governor, Mr. Mayor, you had a fully-established, well-thought-out disaster plan in existence, even posted on official State and City Web sites. Why was this discarded without so much as a line of it being implemented when a disaster actually arrived?").

This should be fun... :D

[RealGun]

Actually it's more petty than you are imagining. The investigation was organized by the GOP without consulting her. Her gripe is strictly partisan, which is of course, her specialty. It's the same reason the WH is not inviting Congress to have an investigation and wants it done by the WH.

[El Tejon]

C-Y-A.

This is an ancient administrative law tactic. Badmouth the proceeding before anything is done as the hearing will make your client look real bad.

The Democrats are now hoisted by their own petard. [ note to mods: petard keeps it gun related :D]

[Waitone]

Democrats in their zeal to attack Bush for any reason failed to consider the itty-bitty outside possibility their own party members (who happen to own the power structure) might have dirty skirts.

Early stories coming out are not complimentary of the organization prowess of der Governor and her idiot mayor. My guess the reason Bush hopped all over an investigation is his case will be easier to present than the other side.

[Standing Wolf]

The monority leader can't stop a...

The correct spelling is "moronic."

[Can'thavenuthingood]

No wonder they are saying its Bushes fault, he is indeed clever that man:)

Moron in plural I think in Louisiana is spelled moronicals, as in the attack of the Moronicals (Nagin, Compass, Blanco, Landrieu, Dean, Pelosi etc.)

Collect the whole set for your holiday fun.

Vick

[athlon64]

Louisiana Politics


STATE and CITY
========================
Louisiana Governer
Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D)

New Orleans Mayor
Ray Nagin (D)

Baton Rouge Mayor
Kip Holden (D)

Louisiana State Representatives
Democrats: 67
Republicans: 37
Independents: 1

Louisiana State Senators
Democrats in the Senate: 24
Republicans in the Senate: 14

FEDERAL
======
Senators - Federal
Landrieu, Mary- (D)
Vitter, David- (R)

Representatives - Federal
Republicans - 5
Democrats - 2
*New Orleans = William Jefferson (D)

[Hawkmoon]

The Democrats are now hoisted by their own petard. [ note to mods: petard keeps it gun related ]
It does?

A petard isn't exactly a firearm. More like a medieval precursor of a Bangalore torpedo. And one is not hoisted by one's own petard, the literary allusion is being hoisted with one's own petard.
Hoist with his own petard. Beaten with his own weapons, caught in his own trap. The petard was a thick iron engine, filled with gun-powder, and fastened to gates, barricades, and so on, to blow them up. The danger was lest the engineer who fired the petard should be blown up in the explosion.

"Let it work;
For `tis the sport to have the engineer
Hoist with his own petard; and it shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines,
And blow them at the moon."

Shakespeare: Hamlet, iii. 4. Source: Brewer's Dictionary.

Sorry, Mate. But if'n I'm being tagged as the resident pedant, I have to live up to the title. :) )

[sfhogman]

Thanks, preacherman. I, for one was pretty much in the dark concerning La. politics and politicos.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Ms. Pelosi is fast becoming irrelevant.

[beerslurpy]

One observation I have been making for a while now is that major disasters affecting cities are always good for the republicans and for conservatives in general.

Generally speaking, anytime there is mass death in a liberal urban center, the electoral sitaution isnt changed until the next census but the influence of the left wing is greatly diminished. LA is probably going to trend strongly Republican for a long time right now. Note that not a single "close" state got LA refugees- most of them ended up in Texas, which is so safely repubilcan that a few thousand refugees wont affect anything.

Similarly if terrorists were to nuke NYC, Detroit, Chicago or LA, the states containing those cities would subequently trend much more conservative. Can you imagine what IL would be like politically without Chicago? Sea change.

[Crosshair]

I now is time for gog to Smite some people. Let him throw down a few bolts of lightning, drop a gun safe on them, whatever. :cuss:

[GunGoBoom]

The local politicians are scared stiff that they're about to lose the State to the Republicans.

And they're now solving that in an attempt at eradication, by egging them into shootouts with their house to house unconstitutional sweeps for weapons.

And I'll note that the anti-gun Landrieu won by the slimmest of slim margins over the pro-gun repub (also a woman), in that most recent senate race.

[ravinraven]

I agree with "countertop +1"

I sortta assumed what I've seen written here, plus I have a bit more insight into the politics f the area.

thanx,

rr

[El Tejon]

Hawk, well, what does one fill a Democratic petard with? Gunpowder of course. See, it is gun related. :D

By means of v. with, I'll have to quibble with the Bard. :D

[BigG]

chances of reelection ...in New Orleans just went down the toilet Sorry - don't you mean "floated away?" :neener:

[Preacherman]

BigG, in New Orleans, under present conditions, they amount to the same thing... :D

[scout26]

Speaker Hassert was on the radio here in Chicago this morning and asked about Pelosi's comments "that she wasn't consulted." He stated that she was in the meeting a the White House when it was discussed with Sens. Frist and Reid, and the President. He also said that he discussed it with her on the way back from the White House to the Capitol.

Maybe she forgot.....or only later realized that hearings would show that the "Powers That Be" in LA are Dem's and would come out looking really bad when the truth be told.

[scout26]

Can you imagine what IL would be like politically without Chicago?

Texas, but without snakes, giant spiders and Texans. :neener: :evil:

[MikeIsaj]

Because in the face of tens of thousands dead, hundreds of thousands of lives destroyed, billions of dollars in property lost and an economic impact that will effect the entire country, the most important priority is to keep the blame on George Bush.

You can tell a lot about people by watching how they act in the face of a crisis. I hope people are taking notes.

[Moondoggie]

Ms Pelozi will never realize that she's irrelevant as long as the Kleig lights come on every time she opens her stupid yap.

When the Kleig lights go to black for good, she'll just start writing books.

When the only ideas you can come up with is to slander the other side, you're pretty much over. It's only a matter of time.

[bountyhunter]

The monority leader can't stop a congressional investigation of the NO frolicing. Why is she bad-mouthing the effort before it even begins? SIMPLE. Because Republicans will be chair of the investigating committee which is a conflict of interest. They will make sure that findings are skewed to protect the admin.

Pelosi (and anybody with a brain) knows the only way to get factual findings is from an independent investigation... and that is what the dems are asking for. The GOP lightning fast jump to get their investigation going is to block that from happening.


Democratic Leaders Call for an Independent Commission to Investigate Response to Hurricane Katrina

Washington, D.C. – House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid sent a letter to Speaker Hastert and Senate Majority Leader Frist today calling for the appointment of an independent commission to investigate and review the relief efforts in response to Hurricane Katrina.

[bountyhunter]

Because it will end up looking real real bad for Democrat politicians in Louisiana and the parties biggest national supporters - environmentalists - while at the same time absolving the Bush administration of almost any blame for the debacle. Then why did Frist and Hastert run like a vampire from holy water at the mention of an independent investigation not under senate control?

[denfoote]

What countertop said!!

Also, after this is all over with, that idiot mayor needs to be swept from office by any way possible.

The Mayor of NO also need to be hoisted up by a rope for authorizing the confiscation of legally owned guns, except for his rich crony's, of course!!!

I hope the lawsuits over this confiscation reach into the trillions of dollars and hold the Mayor directly responsible for violating the people's rights.
Yeah, I know, "State of Emergency" but that has never been tested in court as far as I know!! Now's as good a time as any!! :scrutiny:

[Preacherman]

Remember what I said about Katrina's effect on Louisiana politics? Well, there's a very detailed newspaper article today about some of those effects, which confirms (and goes beyond) what I said earlier. See here (http://www.thetowntalk.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050910/NEWS01/509100316/1002) for details.

[GunGoBoom]

I supported the Bush and the fed response.....UNTIL I discovered yesterday that the feds are taking away cameras and vidcams, and using US Marshalls and NatGuard (which is under fed control) to forcibly confiscate the weaons law-abiding citizens.

Now I'm squarely on the side of that (otherwise-repugnant) Pelosi. Bountyhunter is right, it would seem. We need an *independent* investigation to expose these constitutional protections abuse, bigtime!

The admin is running roughshod over the two most important fundamental citizens' rights found in the BOR - the 1st and 2nd. That cannot be tolerated!

[riverdog]

Actually they're running over the 2nd and 4th Amendments, but that seems to be just in NOLA. But about the firing of DEMA's Michael Brown. . . Here's a little tidbit from junkyardblog.net (http://junkyardblog.net)
-----------------------------------------------------------------

SHOULD MICHAEL BROWN BE DRAWN AND QUARTERED OR MERELY FIRED?

That seems to be the debate around the blogosphere these days. I've got to side with Jeff Goldstein on this. Brown said some horrendous and clueless things in the early days after Katrina, and that alone made him a political liability. But I find it fascinating that Brown's FEMA has handled four hurricanes before Katrina without much of a hitch, and is handling Katrina well in Florida, Alabama and Mississippi right now, yet it's the catastrophe in Louisiana that gets all the press and has him on the ropes.

If we were to look at this scientifically, we might note that one element among the states mentioned is not like the others. If we were to look at this logically, we might conclude that the one thing that's not like the others is likely to be the souce of the problems. But I guess science and logic have no utility anymore when there are points to be scored.

Here are the facts: Florida, Alabama and Mississippi all have GOP governors who took charge of the relief situation, didn't dither or dish out conflicting information up and down the chain of command and haven't surrounded themselves with lawyers and high-paid political advisors. Those governors made good decisions and stuck with them. They knew what FEMA would and would not do based on history and regulation. Louisiana, on the other hand, has a weepy, indecisive Democrat governor who seems to have considerable trouble deciding whether to shoot looters or hug them. She clearly doesn't understand her own role in disasters, doesn't understand FEMA's role, and doesn't understand what local officials are supposed to do either. So she has performed miserably, and seems to be far more concerned about politics than just doing her job. James Lee Wiit, FEMA director under President Clinton, is nothing less than a living flack jacket for Gov. Blanco.

I really don't see how firing Michael Brown fixes any of this. But I do see how recalling Gov. Blanco fixes pretty much all of it.

[Preacherman]

GunGoBoom, you're misinformed on a number of points.

1. The Federal Government is NOT disarming citizens or confiscating video cameras. These actions are being taken by the New Orleans municipal government and police force.

2. The National Guard in New Orleans is NOT under Federal control. Governor Blanco of Louisiana has refused to place her Guard forces under Federal authority - a bone of contention and source of vexation to many (including me).

So, Pelosi's ranting won't address these problems. Her party will have representation on any Congressional inquiry - they just won't have control of its agenda.

[Waitone]

If you think an independent investigation is possible in this country at this time you are obviously living in a blessed fog.

There is no way we'll get a decent understanding of what happened and why. Far too many political lives hang in the balance. Far too many bigshots from both parties will end up appearing to be the political scum they are.

Historians decades from now will approach the truth. It ain't gonna happen with our current cast of political characters.

Now reacting to the posted blog snip: Firing Brown may or may not be meaningful. What is meaningful is that all politicans at all level of government understand this is the one screwup they are allowed. They won't get a second chance to screw up. One way to drive home the point is to pike a variety of political heads. Brown is a start. Gov. Blanco and the idiot mayor are second and third. Bush would be a helpful addition. Perhaps then presidents will think twice or thrice before appointing second string political hacks to positions thinking nothing will happen to draw out the hack's incompetence. Its easy to focus on FEMA for a host of valid reasons but bear in mind the majority of the chaos in the first week falls at the feet of local politicians. FEMA's sins are large and mainifold be we can not ignore the locals while we beat up on FEMA.

[RealGun]

I supported the Bush and the fed response.....UNTIL I discovered yesterday that the feds are taking away cameras and vidcams, and using US Marshalls and NatGuard (which is under fed control) to forcibly confiscate the weaons law-abiding citizens.

Now I'm squarely on the side of that (otherwise-repugnant) Pelosi. Bountyhunter is right, it would seem. We need an *independent* investigation to expose these constitutional protections abuse, bigtime!

The admin is running roughshod over the two most important fundamental citizens' rights found in the BOR - the 1st and 2nd. That cannot be tolerated!

Are you assuming that an independent inquiry commission would even entertain the question of gun confiscation? I want Congress to do it, so they can be entirely accountable (to me). I also want the Dems to play a secondary role, because all they are really interested in is frying the administration, never mind the facts. Picture the kinds of questions Ted Kennedy or Barbara Boxer would ask, oozing genuine concern. :barf:

[RealGun]

The Federal Government is NOT disarming citizens or confiscating video cameras. These actions are being taken by the New Orleans municipal government and police force.

But the report was that "three federal marshals" showed their badges while asking for the weapons. Are they operating in tandem with or as part of the NOPD? There is also the report that the NOPD is asking for the weapons with the NG standing behind them and then assuming possession of the weapons.

[GunGoBoom]

But the report was that "three federal marshals" showed their badges while asking for the weapons.

Exactly. Thanks for the clarification on your point #2, Preacherman, but what about that, as for point #1? The unflooded bar in the French quarter that was raided, disarmed, and it's owners & occupants told to leave, was reported to have been so 'raped' by the US Marshall's service!

And, just a point of fact, FWIW: ALL national guard units' members, in all states, pledge an oath to the FEDERAL government, when the soldiers sign up! And are you telling me that the OK nat guard, which has been sent down there, is under LA governor control? Maybe you're correct; I hope so!

[roo_ster]

Independant like the 9/11 comission? The one that had Jamie Gorelick as a comissioner?

I guess Governor "Weepy" Blanco should pack her suitcase so she can "serve" on the comission.

I'm with RealGun. I want the comissioners accountable to the voters.

[Langenator]

Additional to the "screwed up Louisiana politics" part of the story: Gov Blanco and Mayor Nagin dislike each other intensely. Nagin used to be a Republican (kind of like Bloomberg in NYC used to be a Dem-switched for political convienience) who supported Bush in 2000 and Blanco's GOP opponent last time she ran.

This fact excuses neither of them for the failure to have an adequate disaster plan (Florida officials have been pointing out how both MS and LA's plans and execuation were sub-par and hadn't learned the lessons from Andrew 13 years ago) or to even execute what plan they did have. Gov Blanco is now trying to blame the fact that NO school and transit busses weren't used to evacuate people (as per The Plan) on the Bush administration.

[javafiend]

It's the same reason the WH is not inviting Congress to have an investigation and wants it done by the WH.

Well let's hope that Bush isn't too hard on himself. :rolleyes:

[ravinraven]

... to do the "investigation."

Sean Penn, Mikey Moore, Barbra Stri????, Al and Jesse. Have each of them bring three drinking buddies and investigate the hell out of the mess.

rr

[bountyhunter]

Governor Blanco of Louisiana has refused to place her Guard forces under Federal authority - a bone of contention and source of vexation to many (including me). And I suspect that was the reason Bush left New Orleans to twist slowly in the wind.... borrowing a phrase from my era.

I was raised in Louisiana. "Corruption" and "politics" are synonyms in that state and nobody cares.

But Bush reminds me of a guy with a garden hose watering his petunias in his front yard while a guy was laying on the sidewalk on fire. It's true he was not the fire department and it's true the fire department could save the guy... but in the real world, we have to face some facts:

1) You can't wave a wand and get 600,000 to leave a city in three days.

2) FEMA is the only game in town with a big enough hose to put a "fire" that size out.

Brown should have readied for the worst case and gone in with his troops when the need arose.... and the entire world saw the need the day after when people had no food or water.

Posse Comatatus was just an excuse to do nothing. When lives are at stake, the Big Dog should have stepped in and then listened to the whining about state's rights AFTER all the lives that could be saved, were saved.

Gov Blanco and Mayor Nagin dislike each other intensely. An even more compelling reason the Fed should have told them both to STFU and then gone in and gotten it done.

The reason the Bush admin is being pilloried is really simple:

The whole world saw people starving and dying from lack of water on their TV screens.... and statements coming from Bush and his people indicated they were not even aware it was going on.

One official being interviewed claimed he only just "learned" about it Wednesday night and the interviewer (dumbfounded) said they had been running the pictures for three days.

The retort was some snide remark about how such stories are "anecdotal" and they had not "verified" it until Wednesday.

[TheEgg]

El Tejon:

Original french usage:

The French used pétard, “a loud discharge of intestinal gas"

This make is so approriate for both THR, and the Legal and Political Forum. :D

[RealGun]

More big government. Yeah, that'll fix it. They aren't scary enough already. Let's leave it to localities and States to ask for help and then both blame the feds when they don't ask and federalize the whole system as a solution. I guess we should stop pretending there is still such a thing as States' rights and local responsibilities.

Brown should have readied for the worst case and gone in with his troops when the need arose.... and the entire world saw the need the day after when people had no food or water.

Posse Comatatus was just an excuse to do nothing. When lives are at stake, the Big Dog should have stepped in and then listened to the whining about state's rights AFTER all the lives that could be saved, were saved.

[bountyhunter]

Let's leave it to localities and States to ask for help Yeah, your proposal worked GREAT in parishes throughout southern Louisiana where communications were knocked out. Three days later, when they finally COULD get through to FEMA, they got the inane reply:

"Well.... since we didn't hear from you, we figured you must be OK."

We already tried it your way. The bodies are piled up like cordwood.

[RealGun]

Yeah, your proposal worked GREAT in parishes throughout southern Louisiana where communications were knocked out.

Why not simply plan for better emergency communications? Why do we have to strip the State of responsibility and create a larger federal monster? The Feds still aren't going to respond until they find out there is a problem. Who would be the first to know?

[Sergeant Bob]

Bush didn't do this! Bush didn't do that! Blahblahblah.
If he'd declared martial law and forced the evacuation of N.O. before the hurricane hit, all the Lefties would have had their panties in a bigger wad than than they do now. If he'd declared martial law after, they be crying about that.

As for there being no communications for 3 days, that's pure Barbara Streisand. We all knew about it whan it happened so they could certainly have called for help.
Ray Nagin was able to get on TV and whine about the feds not doing enough. I sure the Governor could get ahold of Washington. It doesn't matter a whit if the phones were out in the "parishes", there were communications.

[fallingblock]

"I was raised in Louisiana. "Corruption" and "politics" are synonyms in that state and nobody cares."
*********************************************************


:D

[roo_ster]

bountyhunter:

To be blunt, Louisianans are reaping the harvest of what they have sown in their political fields. They have tolerated third world levels of corruption and incompetence and when crunchtime came...their leadership folded and they got crunched. All the frantic blamestorming isn't going to change that fact or bring back one person drowned because Ray "Simpering Cr@pweasel" Nagin screamed like a little girl, wet his pants, and forgot the evacuation plan on his desk when he slinked off to Baton Rouge, leaving a slime trail in his wake.

The NOLA example has made it clear that the quality of state & local leadership can be a matter of life and death. Pay attention when your local poo-bahs are up for election or face the consequences.

FEMA & the federales cannot instantaneously fill the leadership and order vacuum left by the collapse of local leadership. The locals need to hold themsleves together for from 2-4 days before the federales can concentrate on the area(s) of destruction, as they must stand ready, back a ways to be ready to act elsewhere, should the hurricain shift & make landfall elswhere. If the locals not only drop the ball, but refuse to play well with others (as Blanco has), the problem is just that more difficult.

I am glad GWB has not violated law & the US Constitution and imposed martial law in this situation. It would be a bad precedent to set.

[Delmar]

Pelosi (and anybody with a brain)

Shouldn't that read "Pelosi OR anyone with a brain?"

Isn't it odd that Louisiana had all these federal issues-or what turned into federal issues in the face of a state and local government who did little to nothing for their own people.

And the one Louisiana official threatening to take a swing at the President-wow, there's some REAL leadership for ya!

Louisiana's license plate should read-"The Dysfunctional State".

Maybe they should abolish Washington DC and move the feds there. That way, the Feds won't have to disturb the mayor's slumber to take care of business, and there wouldn't be a governor so no worries about stepping on toes.

I feel bad for the resident's of Louisiana-its really a pretty place with lots of great people. Too bad the political scene is controlled by morons, losers and half wits. Kind of reminds me of Illinois and Chicago!

[bountyhunter]

Shouldn't that read "Pelosi OR anyone with a brain?" Let's wait for the autopsy results..... with any luck, it won't be a really long wait.

Louisiana's license plate should read-"The Dysfunctional State". Why would they adopt a state motto containing a word that 98% of the people there could not define?

Many of the ones I knew make Jay Leno's "Jaywalking All Stars" look like Nobel prize winners.

Maybe they should abolish Washington DC I know of about a dozen different offices you could get elected to with that campaign slogan.

I feel bad for the resident's of Louisiana-its really a pretty place with lots of great people. Too bad the political scene is controlled by morons, losers and half wits. Kind of reminds me of Illinois and Chicago! I feel bad for them as well, but they do tolerate a bunch of crooked losers in their state house so it does prove the old saying you get the government you deserve...

Which is all true, but I still maintain that I would much rather spend borrowed tax money on projects in my own country that have a good chance of being beneficial than burning it up overseas financing a new regime that (at the first election) voted overwhelmingly to adopt a bunch of candidates aligned with Iran. I don't see why my taxes should be paying to build Iran Pt II.

[bountyhunter]

bountyhunter:

To be blunt, Louisianans are reaping the harvest of what they have sown in their political fields. They have tolerated third world levels of corruption and incompetence and when crunchtime came...their leadership folded and they got crunched. No real disagreement there (I lived there). The point is, the FED had a vital economic interest to protect ( a seaport and oil/gas resources) and they knew it, based on past documents and programs. Projects were allocated and work was being done (at a snail's pace) but the funding was strangled off by the Bush admin in 2000 and the Army Corps of Engineers warned them they didn't even have 10% of what they needed.

Bottom line, it needed to get done. If they are corrupt and you can't trust them to not blow the money elsewhere, just do what we used to do with heroin addicts: drag them to the doctor or dentist and make sure they get fixed up and don't give them any money. Whatever crap goes on at state level, they could have had a program to fix the levees conducted by the ACOE and gotten it done.... if it had a priority.

[bountyhunter]

If he'd declared martial law and forced the evacuation of N.O. before the hurricane hit, all the Lefties would have had their panties in a bigger wad than than they do now. No, you have it reversed now: the "lefties" are ascribed the trait of WANTING to be controlled by the state and supporting governmental welfare.... so, they would have "cheered" such actions (at least, according to the GOP talking points propoganda reading list du jour).

The "righties" are the ones who are constantly reacting to "big brother" doing anything at the state level and it is they (just read the posts around here) who claim the states should be left completely alone and the Fed has no obligation to do anything, anywhere, anytime, anyplace about any problem.

I'm afraid you have the teams reversed.