[Lone_Gunman]

The troubling stories coming out of New Orleans have gotten me thinking...

If society partially breaks down, and police or national guard are still making at least some effort to enforce laws, then maybe a weapon you can conceal is really better than an M-4gery or your 12 gauge shot gun.

The police are forcibly confiscating firearms from folks in New Orleans, or so the news reports indicate. If you can conceal a firearm, then maybe you have a chance of actually keeping one.

Thoughts?

[LEFTHOOKER]

I think you are correct for the most part in any urban/suburban situation where you will be forced for whatever reason to be on the move.
A Glock 17 with some 17 rounders or some sticks "33 rounders" should keep you pretty well armed for the most part......add an M6 laser/light and I think you're good to go........just my opinion.

[Dave Markowitz]

If you are limited to a single firearm, then a handgun may indeed be more useful, due to the concealability factor However, most of us aren't limited to only one gun.

[GunGoBoom]

The police are forcibly confiscating firearms from folks in New Orleans, or so the news reports indicate. If you can conceal a firearm, then maybe you have a chance of actually keeping one.

Thoughts?

I've been thinking about this alot lately too, and I think you're dead right - it appears that a good concealable handgun is indeed far more important on the scale of SHTF weapons than previously thought (by me), for the reasons mentioned (LEO / Nat. Guard will disarm anyone visibly armed). Good reason to justify an SVI 2-stack 1911 in 9x23 Win! :) Excellent point. The rifles are nice IN/ON the homestead, but when venturing out & about, a powerful, high capacity handgun is looking pretty appealing if one were in the lawlessness in NO and other places hit hard by the disaster.

[armoredman]

A collapsible carbine like the KelTec or the Su16 might be quite handy, too....

[kbr80]

When the S hits the FAN, any weapon, is a good SHFT weapon.

[Stauble]

i dont really understand wat the NO police are doing. are they confiscting guns from every1 they see with one or is it only people walking around with them?
if they only take them away from you if you are in the street, then id say just sit on your front porch with your choice of weapon. if you have to go into town for somethin then bring some sort of handgun.
i just cant see the police bothering you if your just sitting on your porch with a shotgun

[kbr80]

i dont really understand wat the NO police are doing. are they confiscting guns from every1 they see with one or is it only people walking around with them?
if they only take them away from you if you are in the street, then id say just sit on your front porch with your choice of weapon. if you have to go into town for somethin then bring some sort of handgun.
i just cant see the police bothering you if your just sitting on your porch with a shotgun

SO much for sitting on the porch, minding your own business:::

NPR -"To the Point" 9/8/05
WashPost (?) reporter was interviewed at the start of the show. The reporter is covering the Katrina story for his out-of-town newspaper. This is what he said he witnessed:

Described how a bar owner in the French Quarter has a generator, cold beer, open for business, etc. The owner (a woman) and her buddies would sit outside with shotguns guarding the place.

Today, US Marshals "raided" the bar, ordered all people inside "up against the wall" and took all their guns. "Told them to get out of town by noon tomorrow."



Same reporter said that local NOPD refuses to forcibly remove people, seems like a Fed Gov operation from what he can see . . .

This should be the link:
http://www.kcrw.com/show/tp

[Logan5]

Then again... the NO/Katrina thing is kind of unique, but think about it. If you had to load up all your gear into your vehicle and bug out, possibly across several states to relatives or whatnot, what's really a good idea to have with you? If you're doing major miles, the probability that you'll be sleeping in the car at rest stops/truck stops/gas stations is probably pretty high, and those are definitely areas where you can expect to encounter the local cops.
Staying there is a totally different scenario, with lots of variables.

[Pilgrim]

The police are forcibly confiscating firearms from folks in New Orleans, or so the news reports indicate. If you can conceal a firearm, then maybe you have a chance of actually keeping one.
What is becoming increasingly obvious is that in any SHTF scenario you are better off avoiding all contact with government forces.

Pilgrim

[Standing Wolf]

If you're doing major miles, the probability that you'll be sleeping in the car at rest stops/truck stops/gas stations is probably pretty high...

Nope. Those are places where you could expect to be victimized. If you've got to stop, stop somewhere else.

[Wags]

With the situation in New Orleans and I had only one weapon to choose, I'd carry a 12 gauge pump shotgun of my choice. The pump shotgun is the most recognizable and intimidating riot control weapon known to mobs. It has a psychological effect of a very probably hit factor to the person who is looking at the large hole pointed at them. If you want a out of control mob to listen to you, carry a pump shotgun.

A back up handgun is optional since you probably won't need it. Your already carrying the key out of the city.

[Lone_Gunman]

What is becoming increasingly obvious is that in any SHTF scenario you are better off avoiding all contact with government forces.

I couldnt agree more.

[GunGoBoom]

Today, US Marshals "raided" the bar, ordered all people inside "up against the wall" and took all their guns. "Told them to get out of town by noon tomorrow."

If true, that is simply outrageous. How can they do that legally without first declaring martial law? By what authority can someone order you out of you own business and steal your property (guns)? WTH? :confused: :cuss:

[Harry Paget Flashman]

LEFTHOOKER has it right. In a New Orleans situation I'm grabbing my Glock 17, twelve 17 rounders and two 33 rounders. A rifle or shotgun would get pretty heavy trying to keep it out of chest deep water.

[DMK]

If true, that is simply outrageous. How can they do that legally without first declaring martial law? By what authority can someone order you out of you own business and steal your property (guns)? WTH?
Forcible evacuation for public health reasons. Preventing the spread of disease is a little bit higher on their list of priorities than your property and 2nd amendment rights. Due to all the civil unrest, they certainly aren't going to let people travel with visible weapons.

http://www.kcrw.com/show/tp
Mayor Ray Nagin Orders Everyone out of New Orleans
As the water level drops and contamination becomes more concentrated, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin has ordered evacuation, by force if necessary, because of health concerns from contaminated floodwaters. The military says it won't take part in what it calls a "law-enforcement operation," and spokesman Eddie Compass says the New Orleans Police Department will use only minimum force to make unwilling residents leave, as they concentrate on rescue operations. Meantime, President Bush wants another $40 billion to $50 billion to provide more relief. As a major American city shuts down, we join reporters, residents and public policy experts for an update on the state of emergency, as well as what went wrong and what comes next.

IMO, in a situation like that, it's best to blend in, keep a very low profile. Keep your favorite handgun tucked in your waistband, out of sight. Keep a carbine or short barreled shotgun packed in your belongings and out of sight. They don't have the manpower to search everyone, just the ones that look like they might be trouble. Don't look at all like you'd be any trouble. It's may not be right, but it's the reality of the situation.

The N.O. saga is a perfect example of why you need good examples of a handgun, a carbine, a long rifle and a shotgun on hand.

[Tokugawa]

I think I'd be more worried about being shot by the "good guys", because they saw a visible AR or AK, and they have been conditioned that any firearm toting civilian is a "bad guy". So a concealed weapon is good- does not agitate the authorities.

[Andrew Rothman]

Isn't my health my choice? It is in a hospital, where I have a constitutionally guaranteed, oft-upheld right to refuse care.

If I want to stay in Cholera Alley, that's my own damn choice.

[S_O_Laban]

That is my thinking too, Matt. Although in this situation I would have left the area a long time ago.

[psyopspec]

Is a handgun really the best SHTF weapon after all?

"SHTF" doesn't narrow it down enough to specify an answer. In the context of the hurricane, I like to think I'd have left ahead of it and the flood that followed, but had I not, a handgun would have been ideal for any ventures outside and a long still would have been my first choice for home defense.

[mnrivrat]

Isn't my health my choice? It is in a hospital, where I have a constitutionally guaranteed, oft-upheld right to refuse care.

If I want to stay in Cholera Alley, that's my own damn choice.

Welcome to the new United States of America .

The one that can confiscate your money if your carrying too much of it . Confiscate your house if they can make more money on it than your paying for taxes.
The America that can infringe upon just about any freedom you thought you should have .

After all - it's for the children and the public good !! :scrutiny:

PS : I would in fact be more concerned about law inforcement than law breakers in many of the SHTF type situations.

[ruger270man]

I thinks its best to have two guns... a decent rifle (AR or AK), and a sidearm with common ammo, 45, or 9mm.

[chopinbloc]

um, how exactly is it that some overworked, undertrained cop is going to be ABLE to take my rifle? i imagine the marshals may have used special weapons and maybe tactics but regular cops? please!

sure, i'd probably have left long ago but if i decided to stay i would be well armed everywhere i went. of course, i wouldn't go somewhere that i didn't feel a real need to go but i'd bring my rifle and i would shoot any thief that tried to forcibly relieve me of my property, whether his uniform was crips blue or cops blue. as for the green uniforms, i doubt i would actively resist. that's a losing proposition but i doubt they would engage if i simply left, magazine out and in my left hand, held high.

being national guard myself, i've often wondered what i would do if i were ordered to shoot american citizens. if they were rioting or looting non-foodstuffs or attempting entry to unauthorized areas of gov. property etc., i'd shoot. otherwise i think i would attempt to arrest the individual who gave the order. please excuse the barracks lawyer in me but i'm pretty sure any such order would be an unlawful order and therefore it would be my duty to disobey such order and place the offender under arrest. if the situation were dire, lethal force may even be necessary to subdue said person. i had a few conversations with troops in my unit before the big y2k um, nothing and this seems to be a general concensus with few exeptions. NO guard troops probably are full of good ol' boys so i think it unlikely they would be confiscating weapons without reason or otherwise trampling on people's rights. seems to me they are there to help.

i haven't seen any video of this whole thing yet so could someone tell me if the guard troops are even armed?

[mnrivrat]

i haven't seen any video of this whole thing yet so could someone tell me if the guard troops are even armed?

Take a little cruise over to the political boards - you'll find video and some disturbing insight .

[chopinbloc]

yeah, i just saw that. that's what made me change my signature line. words cannot express my anger.

[middy]

I would still go with the 12g pump as my primary weapon. No handgun comes close in effectiveness.

By the time the NG is there I'll be able to get out of Dodge, and at that point I will be more than willing to hand over my shotgun in exchange for food, water, and a bus ticket...

Of course, the .357 snubbie will remain hidden the whole time. :cool:

[Byron Quick]

I realized long ago, that in a evacuation situation that I was a rabbit-not a lion. Yes, the various armaments are very nice to have but not if they get me shot or if the authorities steal them. Therefore, don't carry openly and avoid legalized thieves.

But I wouldn't be in New Orleans for the authorities to steal my weapon. Having your bug out gear is useless if you don't bug out. In good time. In New Orleans that meant every time that the cone of projected possible paths of a hurricane that might go to the upper edge of Category Three or beyond touched the city. No ifs, no buts, no...it didn't look like it would hit...I thought it would do like the last few.

Those of you who live in large, urban areas need to come to grips with the reality of evacuating a major metropolitan area,i.e, if you wait for the official evacuation proclamation then you've waiting too long..

I don't have to have the iron self-discipline you urbanites need to evacuate in a timely fashion. For I don't live in a metropolitan area, nor will I in the future.

I have various tactical gear. Some of it very expensive. I didn't buy it thinking it would make me Billy Bad in a SHTF scenario. The primary role of such gear is to let me move in a covert manner. Having the capability to take a more active role is an option that is nice to have but also one to be avoided if at all possible.

An example: NVG. My NVG's primary purpose is not to target all the bad guys prior to rehabilitation through reincarnation. The primary purpose is to identify potential threats, without attracting attention, and then avoiding those threats while getting on with the business of getting the hell out of Dodge.

Much of my gear won't be used where others can see it until I am well clear of a disaster zone. I will give you water. I won't let you see my filtration equipment or see me using it. My generator won't be used in the disaster zone. It will draw bugs that have to be zapped.

[Azrael256]

I would still go with the 12g pump as my primary weapon. No handgun comes close in effectiveness. Agreed. Shotguns are very handy for just about anything. A rifle or shotgun would get pretty heavy trying to keep it out of chest deep water. Nah. No problem.

[ny32182]

After reading the news over the last couple days, I too can tell you that I will be avoiding contact with the government at all costs if I am ever stuck in a situation like this. From this morning:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050909/ap_on_re_us/hurricane_katrina_16;_ylt=AlciKiFu_RJbj3Qw9G8y2jwbLisB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

some quotes:

NEW ORLEANS - Soldiers and police confiscated guns from homeowners as they went house to house, trying to clear the shattered city of holdouts because of the danger of disease and fire. Police on Friday also marked homes with corpses inside, with plans to return later.

Police and soldiers also seized numerous guns for fear of confrontations with jittery residents who have armed themselves against looters.

"No one will be able to be armed. We are going to take all the weapons," Riley said.

On Thursday, in the city's well-to-do Lower Garden District, a neighborhood with many antebellum mansions, members of the Oklahoma National Guard seized weapons from the inhabitants of one home. Those who were armed were handcuffed and briefly detained before being let go.

"Walking up and down these streets, you don't want to think about the stuff that you're going to have to do, if somebody's pops out around a corner," said one of the Guardsmen, Chris Montgomery.

[thatguy]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=154550

[TheEgg]

The government, especially in 'emergency' situations, is always something to be avoided if at all possible. And at most other times as well.

Today, US Marshals "raided" the bar, ordered all people inside "up against the wall" and took all their guns. "Told them to get out of town by noon tomorrow."

Never forget, the police/military organizations will in all probability follow whatever orders they get from their command structure and will be unlikely to question the legality of said orders, at least until it is too late.