[hillbilly]

The NRA sucks!

What do they think they're going to accomplish by looking for people who had their guns confiscated in New Orleans???

Do they actually think they might file a big lawsuit based on facts and evidence and testimony????

:rolleyes:

It's too bad the NRA isn't more like the GOA.

I mean when somebody tries to confiscate guns, the GOA issues angry press releases immediately!!!!

The GOA doesn't waste time assessing the situation, gathering facts and evidence, or formulating a plan!!!!!!!! They DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT by issuing angry press releases right then and there!!!!!

Everybody knows how much legislation the GOA has gotten passed or killed off lately.

That's why the GOA can afford to not waste any time and just hammer the bejeezus out of gun-grabbers with those 230 grain, full-metal-jacket press releases!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because the GOA is a juggernaut!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See this link and article for proof of what a bunch of cowering, sniveling, worthless, idiots the NRA is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



http://www.nraila.org/currentlegislation/read.aspx?ID=1741

NRA ON THE GROUND IN LOUISIANA


Friday, September 16, 2005

As was reported last week, in the wake of unspeakable crimes perpetrated by roving, armed gangs and individuals, authorities in New Orleans seized legal firearms from lawful residents, effectively disarming the very citizenry they are sworn to protect.

On Monday, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre, and NRA-ILA Executive Director Chris W. Cox slammed New Orleans authorities for this incredible action.

“What we’ve seen in Louisiana-the breakdown of law and order in the aftermath of disaster-is exactly the kind of situation where the Second Amendment was intended to allow citizens to protect themselves, ” LaPierre said. “For state, local, or federal government to disarm these good people in their own homes using the threat of imminent deadly force, is unthinkable.”

“The NRA will not stand by while guns are confiscated from law-abiding people who’re trying to defend themselves,” Cox said. “We’re exploring every legal option available to protect the rights of lawful people in New Orleans.”

To that end, NRA has put professional investigators to work on the ground in New Orleans and surrounding areas. News stories and members’ detailed accounts have been followed up on, but we need more information. Some of our best leads have come from rank and file law enforcement, but we need to hear from all directly affected citizens.

If you have personally had a gun confiscated in Louisiana since Hurricane Katrina hit, please call (888) 414-6333. Be prepared to leave only your name and immediate contact information so we can get back to you. Once again, we are seeking contact information from actual victims of gun confiscation in Louisiana only.

[1 old 0311]

Looks like FEMA wasn't the only ones that slept through this.


Kevin

[Spot77]

Anybody know what the blissninnies (aka Brady bunch, Feinstein and company) have been saying about this?

They seem wonderfully quiet so far.

[M2 Carbine]

Spot77
Anybody know what the blissninnies (aka Brady bunch, Feinstein and company) have been saying about this?
-----------------------------------------------------------------

They don't have to say anything.
They are just sitting back laughing while gun owners do their work for them, whining and complaining about the NRA.

If half of the whiners would join, support and direct the NRA the organization would have enough clout to push through legislation instead of having to compromise most of the time.

But it's so much easier to sit on the side lines whining how an organization, that they are too cheap and lazy to support, is letting them down. :mad:

[pittspilot]

I wonder what you wanted the NRA to do? Or for that matter, the GOA.

Somehow I think getting a quick preliminary injunction would have been impossible, so legal action was foreclosed.

You then have the political and PR means of action. Both of those paths need to be embarked on with care. The NRA appears to be doing so, let's see what comes of this.

[Sheldon J]

Man Hillbilly your are realy devoting a lot of energy to hateing someone. If you and others like you were to dedicate that much energy to solving the problem we could have ccw in every state in the U.S. :what:

[MDG1976]

hillbilly- I sense some sacarsm in your post...

[Robert Hairless]

Reading messages here and elsewhere from G.O.A. members like that has been very useful to me. What I see from those messages is that Gun Owners of America is a loose cannon that attracts loose cannons. G.O.A. evidently is interested more in destroying the National Rifle Association than in accomplishing any lasting goals for gun owners. G.O.A. is divisive.

Until I saw messages like the one that began this thread--and others of a similar nature--I would not have believed that there were many people who actually believed that irrational behavior and uncontrolled rage could be a desirable strategy for achieving a goal. It is irresponsible to advocate wild overreactions based on gossip, rumors, and ignorance. I've seen enough of these messages by G.O.A. zealots to realize that they are the kinds of people to whom G.O.A. appeals.

These people evidently prefer to act emotionally without bothering to learn what really happened and seem unable to distinguish between what is real and what is little more than rumor based on other people's over-reactions. They don't even care. They like to react without thinking, following the lead of an organization that seems to advocate immediate responses to shadowy situations. A strategy that values ignorance and advocates unrestrained emotional tantrums is irresponsible and does great harm to everyone. I understand better why the anti-gun people think so badly of us all and don't believe we can control ourselves or think we can be trusted with firearms.

Never count me or my family as members of Gun Owners of America. That kind of organization does not represent us and never will.

---------

I've looked at other messages posted by "Hillbilly" in this forum and now I wonder if the message he posted to start this thread is supposed to be satire. If so, what I wrote above might be tribute to its success.

[GoRon]

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=28974&stc=1

[DorGunR]

hillbilly- I sense some sacarsm in your post...


I sense a lot. ;)

[Andrew Rothman]

Hillbilly:

Sarcasm appears to be lost on some. So much for subtle.

Matt
NRA member (and soon, certified instructor!)

[Robert Hairless]

Man Hillbilly your are realy devoting a lot of energy to hateing someone. If you and others like you were to dedicate that much energy to solving the problem we could have ccw in every state in the U.S.

Well said.

[Robert Hairless]

Hillbilly:

Sarcasm appears to be lost on some. So much for subtle.

Matt
NRA member (and soon, certified instructor!)

There are quite a few similar messages posted in this forum. I wonder now if I've missed their subtle sarcasm too?

I suppose that I don't need to point out that my message was satirical too. :cool:

[MDG1976]

Robert Hairless- So your sarcasm was satirical? ...Are you being sarcastic? :D

[TexasRifleman]

Some of you people genuinely scare me with your lack of sense of humor and understanding of the English language.


Hillbilly, I'm cracking up watching what you've started here.... too funny :D

[geekWithA.45]

Well, blistering press releases have their place, but the slow, patient work of documenting and taking testimony to provide ironclad political ammunition is precisely in the NRA's sweet spot.

I have no doubt that this political ammunition will be used for maximum effect.

Or perhaps we expected Wayne & Co to put on cammo facepaint, grab an AR, and skydive into NOLA?

[MDG1976]

In my senior year of college I wrote a (what I thought was very, very sarcastic) satirical piece about how "great" the Clinton administration was. None of the students got it. Pretty freightening.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The sarcasm would probably be more obvious if there weren't a lot of posts that often share that same tone and are utterly serious.

[Pilgrim]

The NRA sucks!

What do they think they're going to accomplish by looking for people who had their guns confiscated in New Orleans???

Do they actually think they might file a big lawsuit based on facts and evidence and testimony????

It's too bad the NRA isn't more like the GOA.

I mean when somebody tries to confiscate guns, the GOA issues angry press releases immediately!!!!
Before the NRA can act on behalf of confiscation victms, they have to have names, places, dates, weapons seized, etc. of people who have been harmed by the confiscation policies of the city of New Orleans.

Angry press releases sound impressive, but they are essentially ignored by the city officials who have bigger fish to fry. City officials only respond to claims for damages, or service of civil process in a Tort action.

Pilgrim

[GRB]

In every reallY Witty piece of sarcasmmm there is either intonation (when verbal) or use of certain catch :cool: phrases (when written) to make it appear somewhat :uhoh: sarcastic. The original post in this thread just seemed like another ranting :fire: gunatic just shooting off his wad. No offense meant, but if it was mmmeant as sarcasm it was hard to tell for someone who: did not know the author, did not know the writing style and did not see any evidence of the subtle sarcasm like reference to how much legilation HAs gotten paSSed by GOA lately and SOooo on. LOL.

Now honestly, I imagine them slamming back with a few good lawsuits is just what is needed in today's world.

[Robert Hairless]

Robert Hairless- So your sarcasm was satirical? ...Are you being sarcastic?

My grasp of the English language is so tenuous that I don't know if I'm being sarcastic. It's even hard for me to know when I'm being satirical. I read and learn but my reading skills are so evidently weak and I am well aware that my learning therefore must be small and unreliable. That is why I come to sit at the feet of those who know much. But now I wonder what of my reading is meant to be taken literally, what is masterful satire, and what is merely showing off without regard for the effect it might have on innocents and lamers like me. Those are the consequences of an ineffective education and for them I hope to be pardoned by people with generous spirits. I am committed to learning. And I feel the love.

[scubie02]

Sadly, I am not surprised at all that this went right over so many people's heads. I just got "reprimanded" for sending out a somewhat similar (not the same subject) email at work that "offended several people"--irony, satire, etc are just lost on most people these days. Just one of many reasons I prefer my dog...

[Steam dragon]

Robert Hairless- My grasp of the English language is so tenuous that I don't know if I'm being sarcastic. It's even hard for me to know when I'm being satirical.

Ok, Now I gotta put on my waders...
Getting a LEEETle deep :evil:

[Taurus 66]

Hillbilly is serious. He expects more from them. Although the NRA gets down to the root of the gun politics they do dilly dally too much, and constantly ask for contributions they haven't shown they're worthy of receiving. If you want my hard earned $$$, I'm not going to give it to you for nothing. This makes no sense! No, if you're going to make promises, commit to them! If you're in the business of protecting the rights of others, commit to that! Attack and be swift about it! "Ho Ho Ho ... Let them eat cake!", coming from the mouths of the NRA fat cats, while they stuff their mouths with surf & turf, has never sat well with the hard working, generous, middle class.

[GunGoBoom]

No he's highly sarcastic, clearly (pro-NRA). But actually, both the NRA and GOA 'suck' on this issue, as they BOTH should have filed lawsuits the SAME DAY that this stuff happened. But particularly the NRA, with their abundant resources and lawyers. So, Hillbilly, they do suck; only slightly more than GOA. At least GOA shot out said angry press releases faster, which is *something*.

You don't need all the facts gathered up in order to get an injunction when you have the friggin mayor of the town stating on video that "only police will be allowed to have guns" - that is an order of complete disarmament contrary to the 2A. And people will be DYING as a result of that disarmament, in all likelihood, so immediate, URGENT action is called for - not gathering of facts and evidence. THAT video is plenty enough evidence, along with the anecdotal evidence, to form the basis of an ATTEMPT at an injuction against further disarmament/confiscation. The burden of proof in a TRO (injuction) is that severe irrevocable harm will accrue if the injunction is not granted, and the burden of the liklihood of the harm is not beyond all doubt, beyond reasonable doubt, or anything of the sort - it's by a preponderance of the evidence. We *certainly* had enough to *attempt* to get an injuction from a court prohibiting authorities from attempting, starting, or continuing to disarmament (and it could be followed up with the phrase "if they are in fact so disarming"). Yet the gun groups did NOTHING (virtually). It's shameful, really.

[pittspilot]

Filed a lawsuit, how?

Waded up to the courtroom?

[Standing Wolf]

Issuing press releases is an activity, all right, but it doesn't amount to taking action. I should know: I've written hundreds upon hundreds of them over the years.

[GunGoBoom]

There are any number of other courtrooms, state and federal, in other parts of the state, AND other states, that COULD HAVE, SHOULD HAVE, and most importantly, WOULD HAVE, accepted a venue-inappropriate emergency filing, in light of the exigent circumstances. Judges have that power & discretion (appropriately), and we COULD have gotten a day in court in front of a federal judge, AND a state judge, and asked for an emergency ex-parte TRO, in any number of courtrooms, and it might have been granted. But to the discredit of the gun groups (of which I am a LIFE MEMBER of both of the mentioned ones, mind you), they did almost nothing, and people probably died as a result. They should have at least TRIED to get an emergency injunction against forced disarmament from those poor citizens with the foresight enough to have been prepared and had guns, AND had already made it through the worst stuff, only to have the .gov come in when the coast is relatively clear, and then take away their means of survival. If the judge says no to the requested TRO, then so be it. But to not even TRY given the clear evidence of orders of disarmament? Ridiculous. What in the name of heck DID my $750 to NRA and $450 to GOA go for?

[WT]

pitts- CNN had no problem finding a federal judge in Houston, Texas (U.S. District Judge Keith Ellison) who issued a restraining order against the federal government from infringing on CNN's 1st Amendment rights. CNN filed and got a ruling within 24 hours.


During the same time period NRA did ............... nothing.


FWIW, I am a long time member of the NRA, almost 40 years. I am not a member of the GOA. I am extremely disappointed with the NRA's lack of action.

[JohnBT]

So many smart folks here. I'm impressed.

Why didn't one of YOU file it?

John

[Joey2]

Gentleman, we are beyond the courtroom. :mad:

[c_yeager]

pitts- CNN had no problem finding a federal judge in Houston, Texas (U.S. District Judge Keith Ellison) who issued a restraining order against the federal government from infringing on CNN's 1st Amendment rights. CNN filed and got a ruling within 24 hours.

During the same time period NRA did ............... nothing.


Who is going to be named as the wronged party in this lawsuit that you wanted the NRA to file?

[WT]

CNN based its suit on mere statements made by government officials. No one was injured or suffered monetary loss. CNN filed suit just because the STATEMENTS WERE CONTRARY to the 1st Amendment. CNN successfully obtained a restraining order against government censorship in less than 24 hours.

The order will be reviewed in a month after some time has passed and the parties can better prepare.

The important thing is that judges will issue restraining orders without complete information on the case. CNN didn't need a party claiming injury. In this 1st Amendment case, the mere words of the public officials was damning enough.

Now it is Sunday, a week later, and the NRA has done .............. nothing.

[Hkmp5sd]

At least the NRA isn't standing around with the foot in their mouth after jumping off the deep end. I approve of the NRA taking time to get the TRUTH of the matter and report it ACCURATELY instead of jumping in with both feet and finding themselves up to their eyeballs in poopoo.

The NRA would have looked really stupid had they tried to get a judge to halt the mandatory evacuation and failed to do so. The media already paints the NRA as a ultra-right wing militia group. More bad publicity isn't going to help anyone. There wasn't a judge or politician in the country that was going to step up and halt the mandatory evacuation w/o firearms order.

Time to quit whinning.

[Old Fuff]

I seem to notice that some folks think that courts share our concept of the 2nd Amendment, and will, or would have, quickly supported a request for an injunction. I wonder why, given the courts past behavior concerning this issue. In any matter brought before any court a decision can go at least two ways, and more often then not things haven't gone our way.

I strongly suspect that if the NRA had requested an injunction early on they would have been told that the association had suffered no injure (in the legal sense of the word), and had no standing. If anyone thinks otherwise, please point to example(s) where the authorities have been so enjoined during a civil emergency. :scrutiny:

[joab]

What do they think they're going to accomplish by looking for people who had their guns confiscated in New Orleans??In order to file suit you have to show injury, the NRA has not been injured in anyway

I mean when somebody tries to confiscate guns, the GOA issues angry press releases immediately!!!Kinda like that little yap dog down the street that comes out full of piss and vinegar until I pass from his sight, then he's amazingly quiet

[GunGoBoom]

OMG. They WERE enjoined in THIS emergency from violating the 1A, after a lawsuit was seriously threatened. The NRA & GOA didn't even do that.

The 5th circuit, where LA is located, has specifically recognized an individual RKBA!

Whether won or not, it absolutely should have been *attempted*.

The plaintiff is "The Citizens of Lousiana"


I approve of the NRA taking time to get the TRUTH of the matter and report it ACCURATELY

And in the meantime, people DIE from the despotic actions of the government. Who cares about what the NRA *reports* - I'm talking about DOING SOMETHING to save the lives of those who were actually disarmed.

The NRA would have looked really stupid had they tried to get a judge to halt the mandatory evacuation and failed to do so.

Who said anything about halting the 'mandatory evacuation'? I'm talking strictly about a lawsuit to enjoin FORCED DISARMAMENT OF CITIZENS, in light of the fact that there was specific evidence that this WAS occurring, and this evidence could have been presented to a judge.

And if they failed, they wouldn't have looked stupid, they would have looked heroic for trying to preserve the civil liberties of the citizens.

[Rufus Pisanus]

I have lots of comments so I'll skip direct quotes...

CNN is directly affected by censorship, thus they can file a lawsuit. If somebody says "you cannot report this" they are violating your 1st A rights.
That's why it was enough for somebody to say that to get the lawyers rolling.

On the other hand if the NO Major says he wants to take your guns he hasn't violated anything until he actually does. Moreover, it wouldn't have been NRA guns who were taken. They haven't raided the NRA Museum! It would take some of those whose guns were taken to file a lawsuit.

It is unfortunate but that how it is.

Regarding the NRA being more aggressive. Perhaps they could be a bit more aggressive but at the price of being seeing even more fringe and extremist. Perhaps you guys don't meet anybody with different ideas. I can tell you that, for instance, in Maryland MOST people already think that the NRA is extremist. Sooner or later what people think becomes law. We have to be careful on how we move and we must win back people in the urbanized areas who wet their pants when they see a gun.

Finally, on really going after a hearing on 2A, we should be careful what to wish for. For sure, I would like the supreme court to express a final opinion on this but first of all we need another supreme justice to be appointed as I don't feel confident enough without and second we need Roberts to think the way we do but I wouldn't bet my gun collection on it. Without that we would be toasted. Remember, this is the same supreme court that decided that the county can kick you out of your house if Target/Walmart etc wants to use your land to build something that will produce more tax revenues. It is the same supreme court that decided that McCaine-Feingold doesn't infringe the 1st A (apparently only pornographers rights are worth being defended). We lost a conservative and a moderate justice. The liberals are all still there.

Guys, we are in troubled waters ... and flailing around is not going to help us. We need cool heads, the right moves and another Republican president next term, possibly somebody better than Bush. I am saying Republican not because I love all what they say but because voting a third party will only make sure that a Democrat gets elected.

[WT]

Its settled. We will NEVER WIN because we won't even try.

Don't look for a gun friendly judge in the 5th District Circuit. He might send you off to a corner someplace.

Don't hire some bigwig local lawyers who have political pull and connections.

Let fellow Americans have their 2nd and 4th Amendment rights violated. Maybe these Americans are already dead for lack of their confiscated firearms.

Let some local law rule supreme over the Constitution of the United States.

Let the despicable Oklahoma National Guard trample on John Doe 1 and Jane Doe 1, et. al.

Its too dangerous to act.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

GunGoBoom, our legal system doesn't work like that (http://www.abanet.org/publiced/courts/pleadings.html). Before you can file a lawsuit, you have to have a party who has actually been wronged. It is not enough to say "Some guy I saw on ABC News"

It was easy for CNN to do this because they were the party who was going to get hurt if the government attempted to restrict their access to New Orleans.

Notice how every single RKBA group putting out this press release has also included "If you got your guns confiscated CALL US"? There is a reason for that. They need to have a plaintiff before they will have standing to sue. This is one of the reasons the NRA has investigators on the ground in NOLA - to get that information and build a case.

[Justin]

Honestly, I have to wonder, how many times to we have to rehash this?

:scrutiny:

[antsi]

Okay, so let's review this thread so far.

First, Hillbilly posted a sarcastic/ironic post which purported to criticize the NRA's response to the NO gun confiscation. He wrote it from the persepctive of one of these tin-hat conspiracy theorist "The NRA is Actually a Subsidiary of the Violence Policy Center" types.

A number of people don't recognize the sarcasm, and respond to Hillbilly's post as if he actually meant what he had written to be taken at face value.

The people who didn't recognize the sarcasm get blasted, because obviously Hillbilly's tirade was so ridiculous, the sarcasm was self-evident and no sane person could possibly have read it and taken it at face value.

Then we get somebody who chimes in saying that he does believe what Hillbilly originally wrote, at face value.

The moral of this story is that some folks are so far out there that they're basically immune to parody. No matter how inane, paranoid, exaggerated, and outrageous of a criticism you make towards the NRA, the tin-hat anti-NRA crowd is actually saying something even more ridiculous than what you meant to be a parody.

[Taurus 66]

Sometimes I think the only reason I check in from time to time is to read your <wonderful> speeches. Some of you are in a league of your own.

[Rufus Pisanus]

antsi, how do you know that all those who replied weren't also being sarcastic? after all if the first post was a good example of sarcasm everything else in the world can be.

[xd9fan]

I dont think a thrid party vote will get a dem elected again. Sean Hannity ranted this crap on the radio before the CA Gov election. The GOP went ga ga over Arnold and completely ignored the best man in the race.....MCClintock. McClintock stuck to his guns and showed true leadership and grit.......and my old GOP, Sean Hannity included, went for the fame vote...........well now you have and RINO in the GOV office....suprise suprise. THIS is one of the reasons why the GOP is failing!!!!!!!!

If McClintock every ran for Prez.....he would kick a$$. But no, the party of moderates is looking at Rudy :rolleyes:

[Rufus Pisanus]

that's not what I was advocating! IMHO Rudy would be a perfect candidate for the Democratic party... I respect him but I disagree with him on a lot of (most?) things...

I don't know enough about McClintok to comment but I think we need a good Republican candidate for president (no McCain, Giuliani, Powell, etc).

[joab]

The people who didn't recognize the sarcasm get blasted, because obviously Hillbilly's tirade was so ridiculous, the sarcasm was self-evident and no sane person could possibly have read it and taken it at face value.While the original post was obviously satire, it did bring up some valid points that are being discussed on boards spanning the net.

At first read it looks like something being discussed by a bunch of brain dead lefty Aussies on another ,pro Moore, pro DU, board.

They would most likely use this as a "see even the gun nuts agree with us go look and see" link

[normanh]

The NRA is still the second or third most powerful lobby in the U.S.A. The most powerful pro-gun lobby. I think the anti-american pin head lonney socialist AARP and Trial lawyers are first and second.

[El Rojo]

Ok, so why is the NRA being week by taking the action that so many people criticized them for not taking immediately? How is it not good that they are following up? What are the supposed to do differently because you have a better plan?

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

Hillbilly showed us on a practical basis that the loose cannons and rage accomplishes very little in terms of outcome. In the long run, a class action lawsuit by the NRA will be far more effective for a wider group of our population than some angry press releases by the GOA.

Enforcing legal rights of a large group of people requires that specific victims be identified who can be the tip of the iceberg in representing a whole class of people whose rights were violated. In this case, the NRA is doing the right thing even though Hillbilly and others would rather jump up and down and point fingers rather than taking practical and effective action in a court of law to enforce the rights of those who have been victimized.

[El Rojo]

In this case, the NRA is doing the right thing even though Hillbilly and others would rather jump up and down and point fingers rather than taking practical and effective action in a court of law to enforce the rights of those who have been victimized.FOR THE LAST TIME! HILLBILLY's POST IS MADE WITH EXTREME SARCASM! HE IS POKING FUN AT THE SUPER-CRITICAL NRA CROWD. My gosh. Yes there were people out there with that sentiment, but it wasn't Hillbilly. Wow this thread is something else.

[Dorian]

Had me goin hillbilly...

I was about to make a several paragraph response to.. well.... something or other :)

[joab]

FOR THE LAST TIME! HILLBILLY's POST IS MADE WITH EXTREME SARCASM! HE IS POKING FUN AT THE SUPER-CRITICAL NRA CROWD. Just in case anybody was wondering mine was also, just in case anybody was wondering

[Carl N. Brown]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bakert]

Does anybody in this thread know what in hell they're reading or writing!! :D

[yucaipa]

Everybody knows how much legislation the GOA has gotten passed or killed off lately.


:D

Thanks,hillbilly I'm glad some one else knows the truth and is on my side,that dirty old NRA.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/yucaipa/tinfoilhat.gif

[JohnBT]

"Does anybody in this thread know what in hell they're reading or writing!!"

Sure, but it's easier to figure out if you have a scorecard so you call tell which team the players are on. Scorecards, scorecards, get your scorecards here. I could make a killing at this. Naw, beer sells better.

John