Glock .45 opinions wanted


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Tokugawa
September 18, 2005, 01:34 PM
I am about ready to buy a modern .45. Am tired of expensive 1911's jamming.How do you all feel about the Glock full size?

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nextjoe
September 18, 2005, 01:58 PM
I don't have a .45 Glock, but I do have a Glock 20, which is basically the same as the Glock 21 except in 10mm.

It's an excellent gun. Never had a malfunction of any kind, recoil is quite manageable, accuracy is excellent (much better than I can hold for), and maintenance is a breeze. The .45 Glock should be just the same, except recoil will be even softer and more controllable than in the 10mm.

About the only possible negative is the grip size. I have medium-sized hands and the grip is comfortable, but it's right at the upper limits of comfort for me. Any bigger and it would be too big. Of course, there's the slimline Glock 36 available, too.

So... as long as it fits your hand, I say go for it!

BreakerDave
September 18, 2005, 02:04 PM
I wouldn't give up on 1911's. Assuming you don't have one that was messed up by a garage gunsmith, they usually can be tuned to become very reliable. Sometimes, it only takes a switch to a good quality magazine.

Regarding the Glock .45 ACP options, that depends on how you intend to use the gun. If you are thinking along the lines of CCW, I'd say your best bet is the compact Glock 30 (10+1). The full size Glock 21 (13+1) is bigger than it needs to be but is fine as a regular duty gun or a range gun. I would not consider the Glock 21 for CCW although I know there are people who use it for that. There is also the single stack Glock 36, but that one seems to suffer from low capacity. I think it's 6+1. When I shot it, I remember being unimpressed. The dimension differences between it and the Glock 30 are minimal. The trade-off wasn't worth giving up 40% round capacity.

With Glocks, you're virtually guaranteed to have a gun that is ready to go out of the box. They are reliable and will give you combat accuracy. Do not expect to get the finely tuned trigger or the accuracy that you are likely to find in a higher end 1911. -Given how common Glocks are at gun ranges, you should do yourself a favor and rent one. A little hands on experience will provide you with the necessary insight. Good luck.

SouthpawShootr
September 18, 2005, 02:21 PM
My dad has a G21. I don't care too much for it. Just too big for my taste. I can live with it, make it work for me, but I still feel like the gripframe is too damn big. I do own a Glock 30. Does better for me, a little thick but it still sits better in my hand.

You could try a Sig 220.

Ala Dan
September 18, 2005, 03:03 PM
G-21 and G-30 are fine combat firearms. Be aware, that their plastic sights
are suject too breakage, if the weapons are dropped. Otherwise, they GO
BANG without problems~ :D

nextjoe
September 18, 2005, 03:13 PM
Ala Dan brings up a very good point, which I overlooked because I get my Glocks with night sights. The basic plastic sights SUCK, and Glock is penny-wise and pound-foolish to continue using them!

wrangler5
September 18, 2005, 03:30 PM
Do try to rent/borrow one before you commit. I remember renting one at a range years ago, and although it felt fine in my hand at the counter, when shooting it always bit my trigger finger (just next to the nail.) Something about the length of pull, shape and relationship of the trigger and trigger guard, and the level of recoil of that model made it VERY uncomfortable for ME to shoot. Did not have the problem with several of their 9mms, and I know there are others who love the 45, but it just didn't work in my hands. So try to try before you buy.

HighVelocity
September 18, 2005, 04:18 PM
My Glock 30 never had a single malfunction EVER. Very well made weapon.

WT
September 18, 2005, 04:50 PM
The Glock 21 is too big for my hands. Just not comfortable.

Guess my hands are built 1911 style.

Beren
September 18, 2005, 06:13 PM
Rent one at a range first and see how it fits you, and how you like firing it. You'll want to put a set of real sights on it. I've found my Colt Gunsite Pistol to be very reliable, but it cost $1100 or so. Not a single jam. Only malf was a failure to lock back on an empty mag, which I traced to a magazine issue. Changed followers, no more problems.

CougarRed
September 18, 2005, 09:59 PM
Here's what ballistics expert Gary Roberts has to say on the Glock 45s (from the tactical forums):

DocGKR
Ammo Wan Kenobi
Member # 582
posted 03-05-2003 13:26

Numerous failures of G21's in law enforcement use around here, including three blown guns at the local Police Academy have resulted in most of the tactical teams in our area going back to 1911's.

If you are LE, you can discuss these problems with Don Lazzarini at Santa Clara PD; he has the most in depth knowledge of this issue of anyone I have met so far.

***********************

DocGKR
Ammo Wan Kenobi
Member # 582
posted 03-07-2003 14:51

All the Glock's I have seen blow were with new factory ammo. Saw another G21 yesterday which had blown last week on factory ammo.

Glock's in other than 9mm are prone to this problem. The disconnector allows the pistols to fire slightly out of battery.

************************
DocGKR
Ammo Wan Kenobi
Member # 582
posted 03-13-2003 13:09

Mr. Larry Vickers is widely acknowledged as one of the best pistolsmiths currently working, as well as the only member of the American Pistolsmith's Guild on active duty in the U.S. military. Mr. Vickers has served in numerous SOF assignments and may have more experience with .45 ACP pistols used in combat environments than just about anyone else on earth.

He states: "The 9mm Glocks are the best (the .40 S&W ones blow up and the full size .45 breaks - it's the worst gun Glock makes )."

While the G17 performs admirably, the bottom line is that the G21 has too many problems to be considered a hard use combat pistol.

rwc
September 18, 2005, 11:25 PM
My G30 works fine.

+1 on renting a bunch of pistols and seeing what works best for you.

GGraff
September 18, 2005, 11:42 PM
Been shooting my G21 for about 3 years, only problem I have had was a failure to fire (bad primer). I would recomend replacing the factory sights with Heinnie "Straight 8" or "Slant 8" night sights. They are a little big in the grip for some people, but if it fits you I say go for it.

MaceWindu
September 19, 2005, 12:47 AM
With Glocks, you're virtually guaranteed to have a gun that is ready to go out of the box. They are reliable and will give you combat accuracy. Do not expect to get the finely tuned trigger or the accuracy that you are likely to find in a higher end 1911. -Given how common Glocks are at gun ranges, you should do yourself a favor and rent one. A little hands on experience will provide you with the necessary insight. Good luck.

+1

Mr. Larry Vickers is

...a great shooter w/experience. But, I disagree with his assesment of the Glock 21....

MaceWindu

Cueball
September 19, 2005, 01:06 AM
As others have suggested, hold and preferably shoot the guns you are considering before buying. You might want to take a look at the SIG, H&K and Para Ordinance offerings as well.

kbr80
September 19, 2005, 01:16 AM
...a great shooter w/experience. But, I disagree with his assesment of the Glock 21....

Having just recently purchased a Glock 21, I am worried about the internet rumors as well. People with more knowledge on this forum than I have, have assured me that all the hype about to Glock 21 blowing up is just that, hype. But, the deciding factor for me to trust the Glock 21 was my wife. I told her about all the internet rumors about the Glock 21 blowing up, she cried BS, and stated "if that was true, you would have heard about it from more places than the rumor mill called the internet".

Get you a Glock 21, buy some ammo, Have a ball. I am with my new 3RD gen Glock 21.

Whatsit
September 20, 2005, 01:47 PM
They are great - but not as great as an HK 45 or Sig 45.

made2cut
September 20, 2005, 02:24 PM
I wanted a .45 myself and since I don't like safeties (not to mention the nasty jamming rumors) that left the 1911 out. I bought a Sig P245 which is a great gun but I wanted something with more than 6 +1 capacity. Do I really need more that 7 rounds? Probably not, but 11 rds was just to comforting of an idea so I bought a Glock 30. I'd tell you how much I like to carry and shoot the G30 but my Sheriff's dept lost my application acceptance in the mail. Okay maybe the USPS lost it but in any event I haven't been able to do anything more than fondle my new Glock at the shop :mad: I would also look at the HK USP 45's if I were you. They are more expensive than the Glock's but I really like my 9mm compact and I've heard the 45's are just as good.

Working Man
September 20, 2005, 02:46 PM
made2cut

The HK .45s are awsome. :D

made2cut
September 20, 2005, 04:21 PM
I don't need any encouragement Working Man, I'm trying to keep my purchases down to one at a time :evil:. Now that I've made the jump to .45 the 9mm just seems so inadequate :p

Marshall
September 20, 2005, 07:30 PM
Tokugawa, if you're not opposed to 45GAP, you might look at the XD-45 for comparison sake. (http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-xdpstl-45gap.shtml)

Skpotamus
September 20, 2005, 10:58 PM
I own a glock 30 and have never had a problem in over 9K of logged reloads thru it (plus a few K of factory ammo, mostly wolf). Accuracy wise, it shoots far better than any shooter that has shot it to date. From rest I can get 2" groups at 25 yards and one range officer shot a 3 shot, 2" group at 50 yards off hand, I've been able to hit Silhouette targets at 100 yards from time to time. (you just have to aim a little high)

I would question the "factory" ammo that is blowing up glock 21's at the police academy's. The academy in my area buys "factory" reloaded, lead ammunition that they shoot thru their glocks. Which, according to glock... is a big no no. They did get a blown glock 22 at one of their qualifications, but the officer was known for not cleaning his weapon.....ever... He actually couldn't remember how to take his carry gun apart... AND IT'S A GLOCK FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!

Anyways, try a few out in your hand and see how they feel, and how the trigger feels. I loved the way the H&K's felt, but their triggers I didn;'t like, same for sigs. I also didn't like the grip angle of the H&K and Sig vs the glock).

I had the same problem with 1911's jamming and having to be "broken in" (hence me carrying a glock 30 for the last 4 years) until my most recent purchase. A S&W 1911PD 4 1/4". Out of the box, it's shot 500 rounds without malfunction or noticed loss of accuracy. No cleaning in between and 3 total range trips spread out over a week shooting Ball, HP and SWC ammo thru it. you might look into one of them as they are light and have great triggers.

shooting4fun
September 21, 2005, 02:44 AM
G'day Tokugawa, and et al.,

I shoot both the Glock 21 (full size) and the Glock 30 (mid size) pistols. I've been quite satisfied with both. Each of the pistols have performed well with a large variety of ammunition. Accuracy is very good, with a very slight advantage going to the 30. On paper the 30 wins consistently in smaller group sizes over my 21.

Shooting mild to wild ammunition in each pistol is very manageable. I believe the wider handle distributes the recoil forces over more area of the shooting hand for a more comfortable experience. This larger grip may also be an issue for some. I would recommend that you seek one out to handle and possibly test fire for yourself.

The 21 is roughly the size of 1911 commander pattern. While the 30 is roughly the size of the 1911 officers. Both the 21/30 use the same holsters in my case. Additionally, the shorter gripped 30 can use the longer 21 mags.

Now the glock trigger may take some getting acquainted with. Those that are fixated on a 1911 single action trigger may not like the movement required to articulate the Glock trigger. As with many things, it is possible to learn. I regularly shoot either pistol types without an issue transitioning. It is nice on a Glock to just grip it and rip it. No shifting of grip to disengage a safety before engaging the targets.

I've found it very disturbing and distracting to have to deal with malfunctions during the action handgun matches I attend. I'm glad that I identified the functional issues of my 1911s on the range. These malfunctions became the motivating force behind my quest for reliability on my 1911 patterned pistols.

Through significant research and time, I've been fortunate to have personally elevated my 1911 patterned pistols to a similar level of reliability as my Glock patterns. It was a bit of a learning curve to understand the engineering and then apply that in the appropriate modifications without creating a train wrecked pistol. In that process I did gain quite a bit of appreciation for the fundamental design considerations that Mr. Browning developed into the 1911 pistol.

In my case, I own and shoot both pistol patterns. I find all of them to be suitable for casual and serious applications. My 1911s just took a bit of work to get to the same level as my Glocks. I have found every Glock I've purchased to be consistently of high quality and equally high in reliability.

Oh yeah, my new G-17, the first shots fired out of the box were on stage one of last Sunday's pistol match. Ran the whole match with a box stock Glock, right out of the box. Several of the match participants were amazed and surprised that I would run with a brand new pistol and score in the top 3 overall. FUN!

Best of luck to you in your endeavors! Cheers!

Grayrider
September 21, 2005, 09:09 AM
While I love the 1911 and carry a CDP for CCW, my home defense gun is a 21 (modified a bit to my tastes). It has been incredibly reliable. Fed trashy ammo it runs 100% without complaint. I clean it when I feel like it. The gun is not that big. I suppose that is subjective, but as mentioned above it is about the size of a Commander. The grip has a greater circumference perhaps. I have carried mine concealed before and it was not difficult. IWB with an untucked shirt or large T. I would say that, the USP, and the CZ97 are my suggestions for out-of-the-box trouble free performance in a double-stacked 45.

GR

BreakerDave
September 21, 2005, 02:57 PM
The 21 is roughly the size of 1911 commander pattern.

No, it's not. The Glock 21 is bigger than the full size Government Model 1911. The slide length of the Glock 21 is 7.59 inches. That is about 1/10th of an inch longer than the full size, 1911 Government Model. The Commander and Government models share the same height, but the Commander is 3/4ths of an inch shorter than the Government Model. The Commander is close to a full inch shorter than the Glock 21. Also, keep in mind that the Glock 21 is thicker than the 1911. The difference in width can be an issue for those who would like to use the gun for CCW.

Both the 1911 Commander and Glock 21 shoot .45 ACP but dimensionally, they are noticeably different. If you want to look at a Glock that shoots .45 ACP and has a similar dimension to the Commander, you need to turn your attention to the Glock 36. The grip of the Glock 36 is slightly shorter than the Commander, but the frame is slightly wider than the 1911. The two are very close to the same in slide length. Of course there will be a weight difference, but that's to be expected when one of the pistols has a polymer frame and the other has a steel or alloy frame.

Rockstar
September 21, 2005, 03:17 PM
Hahahaha! Let's get excellent pistolsmith Larry Vickers' opinion on delivering babies, too. He's probably worked on as many Glocks as he has delivered babies! He'd starve to death if his livlihood depending on work done on Glocks. Let's get out the b.s. meter, guys. Them Glocks is just a blowin' up by the thousands. (They must be, since there are a few million of 'em out there, and the design is "apparently" defective.) :cool:

Guns_and_Labs
September 21, 2005, 03:52 PM
Well, not to incite the crowd, but I've not had the legendary perfect-out-of-the-box Glock performance myself. As a matter of fact, I'm 0-for-3 on out-of-the box readiness. G21, G36, and then a G29... all have required replacement of key parts, all have had jams. And I'm not counting the grip reduction/reshaping that I had done to fit my hands better.

They're good guns, now, but not miraculous. No worse, but no better, than various other members of the .45 acp club.

You might try an H&K USP, if you're dead set against the 1911 platform. So far, mine's been bombproof (though I still carry 1911's for fit).

Alex45ACP
September 21, 2005, 03:59 PM
You might want to check out the CZ 97B also. I just got one, it's a sweet gun.

Alfadog
September 21, 2005, 04:59 PM
Hahahaha! Let's get excellent pistolsmith Larry Vickers' opinion on delivering babies, too. He's probably worked on as many Glocks as he has delivered babies! He'd starve to death if his livlihood depending on work done on Glocks. Let's get out the b.s. meter, guys. Them Glocks is just a blowin' up by the thousands. (They must be, since there are a few million of 'em out there, and the design is "apparently" defective.)

I suggest you do a little research on Mr. Vickers before you make a statement like that. Larry Vickers is not just a pistolsmith; he is a retired Army master sergeant and a career special forces operator and instructor. I dare say he has seen more than a few rounds sent down range out of the various Glock models.

FWIW, I've fired a G21 and liked it. I've also fired the G36, but I found the recoil of that one a bit much for my tastes (and the one I shot had a Haarts recoil reducer in it). I don't have enough experience with the Glock .45s to comment on their long term reliability/durability.

SgtGunner
September 22, 2005, 09:22 AM
I have very large hands and I absolutely love my G21. Also use a G30 for sometimes carry. Both have had thousands of rounds through em and nary a malfunction. The only thing I have changed is the plastic crappy sights. All my SD weapons sport Heinie straight eight night sights.(I love those sights) and I also ALWAYS get the stainless steel guide rods. I find they add a little weight to the front of the pistol, and I KNOW the steel will unlikely break, that said I have never had the plastic stock rod break either. Personal preference.

Note: the G21 is not for the small of mitts, it is very thick.
ETA: I tried the G36 and had to sell it, it just did not fit my hand, and I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it if I threw the damned gun at it.

duncan
September 22, 2005, 03:59 PM
Love my Kimbers and my Springfields BUT if you need a down and dirty I can fix it Timex kind of 45, the Glock 21 or the Glock 30 is great.

Love shooting my 1911s but I carry my Glock 21.

People are right - those plastic butt sights suck. I like the MMC adjustable snag-free, low profile, night sights - all metal - sturdy and American made. Adjustable night sights - really.

I like the green tritium dot with a box around it - real fast:

http://www.mmcsight.com/images/sight11.jpg

Those ride on my big boys - Glock 20 and Glock 21.

If you were in New Orleans, what do you think would do the best job under any conditions? That's right, da Glock!

Edmond
September 22, 2005, 04:21 PM
My G30 has not had a single issue with over 2K rounds. Modifications I've done:

3.5# trigger bar
Extended slide release
Mepro's

It will eat up anything from WWB to Wolf to reloads.

DirksterG30
September 22, 2005, 06:28 PM
Glock .45s are great guns, but they are not for everyone. I had a G30 that never had 1 failure of any kind, but the grip was a little too wide for my hands. I sold it and bought a Springfield 1911, which fit my hands much better and it has been very reliable (1 stovepipe jam within the first 50 rounds, no other jams in the 1000+ rounds since.) So there are 1911's available that are reliable out of the box.

Rockstar
September 22, 2005, 06:45 PM
Alfadog: Obviously, my post wasn't a really serious post. I'll "call" your Vickers and raise you one Hathcock! ;) (Gunny Hathcock's favorite pistol was his G21.) I don't need Vickers' or anybody else's opinion about how well Glocks function. I have enough experience to know that neither Glocks nor any other brand is "perfect." I'd be astounded if Vickers has put more rounds through .45ACP Glocks than have I. Vickers certainly hasn't made much of a living, as a pistolsmith, working on Glocks...of that, I'm positive. Maybe the Glocks that were assigned to his special forces unit were just a bad batch. ;)

Alfadog
September 22, 2005, 10:58 PM
Rockstar--I'm not trying to get in a name-dropping match with you, nor am I disputing your experience with Glock pistols (or any other pistols). I simply thought your "B.S. Meter" comment about Mr. Vickers was inappropriate. Mr. Vickers has done a lot more than just pistolsmithing, and just because he doesn't make a living working on Glocks doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's talking about.

FWIW, although I am pretty much a 1911 guy, I like Glocks too and think they are great guns. In fact, I bought my first Glock this past weekend (a G19).

Rockstar
September 22, 2005, 11:50 PM
Alpha: Still wasn't being serious with the "name dropping." The fact that Vickers badmouthed Glock .45's or that Hathcock carried one is largely irrelevant to me. I'm sure that Vickers is competent, as long as he doesn't stray from his area of expertise. I really didn't mean any disrespect for him, and I have seen references to his thoughts on Glocks on other boards. I just happen to disagree with Vickers' opinions of .45 Glocks, and I further don't believe that his opinions are based on any empirical data.

The good news is that Masaad Ayoob probably won't be nominated as a Supreme Court Justice!

GunGoBoom
September 22, 2005, 11:56 PM
1. As you know, if you're tired of 1911s jamming, then there are MANY other options besides Glock, including, as pointed out, a better 1911 (which one gave you trouble?)

2. I've had both the 21 and 30 glock and like them both. They were ok anyhow - nothing special - a little overpriced as all glocks are. Best thing about them is lotsa holster and other aftermarket item choices. My only advice would be to get one chambered in 'Aay Cee Pee', not that funky GAP round.

PO2Hammer
September 23, 2005, 01:02 AM
I used to own a Glock 21 and it was flawless. I have a Glock 20 10mm now and it's just a bit sweeter. Like others have said, you have to replace the sights, Heinie Straight Eights for me.
H&K USP is the only other .45acp that was 100% reliable for me. Glock ergonomics are far superior (for me).
There is a nice old second gen. Glock 21 at my local FFL I've been thinking about.

Rockstar
September 23, 2005, 10:21 AM
PO2Hammer: Per Mr. Vickers, your kids are going to break out in a rash, and your dogs will go blind! Be careful! Be very careful! :evil:

ChickenHawk
September 24, 2005, 12:55 AM
I love my G36. I carry it every day in a shoulder holster on top of a T-shirt under a loose fitting button down shirt. Works great even in Texas!

ChickenHawk

Gordy Wesen
September 24, 2005, 05:13 AM
Larry who?

I had several 30's and liked them alot. Never a problem. I liked them so much I went for the 29... and that only because it's better Cougar medicine.

danbh
September 24, 2005, 05:48 AM
I have a 21 and have put about 5,000 rnds through it never had a failure.. The grips are large but it does fit my hand and is very comfortable.

I have used it as a carry weapon on occasion. I have no complaints with this pistol at all.. :)

PressCheck
September 25, 2005, 03:32 PM
I retired my 1911a1 years ago. I carry, and shoot a G21, or G30 every day. I'm a total Glockoholic.

GlockX35
November 5, 2007, 01:06 AM
Yes Larry Vickers is a .45 expert and was in Delta Force. We know this because he tells us over and over and over...Clint Smith at Thunder Ranch has good things to say about the Glock 21. I'll go with his opinion and my own experience. Particularly like the new G21 SF.

BsChoy
November 5, 2007, 01:18 AM
I love my G21...great gun and it eats my reloads readily

10-Ring
November 5, 2007, 01:19 AM
I have had the chance to shoot the 21sf (short frame) and really like it -- new features & friendlier grip make for a nice little set up ;)

Gunner4h1r3
November 5, 2007, 07:56 AM
I have shot the Glock 21 and haven't had much of a problem with it at all.

If you want something more compact, there's the G-30. Nice gun with 10+1 doses of tender .45 lovin'

I don't know anything about the .45 GAP though i have heard mixed reviews about it.

jeepmor
November 5, 2007, 08:14 AM
No opinion on Glocks. However, when quoting experts for pro or con on your position, have them provide numbers. If these guys are dealing with hundreds or thousands of machines and encountering 2 or 3 with issues, that's one thing. If they work in Mayberry and it's Andy Fife's only service gun, that's a bit different. Don't use expert advice that is not backed up with numbers. That's misleading. Real data is king, experts are typically good at talking.

I work in an engineering environment, I make my decisions based upon data, not hearsay from experts with no stake in my expenditures or decisions on multimillion dollar valued product. The data here from individuals supports the purchase of the glock 45, but not entirely. The "expert" opinion pulled into play by an individual, whether valid or not, is effectively hearsay, nothing more. If Mr. Vickers himself chimed in, that would be different.

trbon8r
November 5, 2007, 08:29 AM
I was tired of my Glock 21 jamming so I dumped it and bought expensive 1911s. All is good now.

You can get a dud with whatever brand you purchase. None of them are 100% perfect.

R&J
November 5, 2007, 08:32 AM
...My experience with Glock has been great!

I got into this in October 2005, my first purchase being a new 3rd Gen G21.

The only far and few between problems I've had with this great combat handgun, in about 9200-rounds, are ammo and/or modification related. Here it is, in a nutshell (FTF = fail to feed), my G21's history:

. FTF During Training--New Shooter, Limp Wristing It!
. Several FTFs--Bad Shipment Blazer Brass Ammo, Cartridges Varying 1/8" In Length!
. Installed LaserMax--No Problems!
. X200A--No Problems!
. 10 mm Conversion Experiment--Several FTFs With Various Ammo Types!

Beyond the above mentioned "tweaking" and "learning", my G21's been 100%! It is my bedside Gun (pic attached) and I'd trust it with my life.

For a LEO's take on the G21, read this:

http://www.commtechreview.net/lawsec/likglock.htm

I bought Judy a new OD G19 for Christmas 2005. Here is its history, in the broad strokes:

. FTF During Training--New Shooter Limp Wristing!
. Several FTFs--Problem Traced To One Of Five New Magazines. No Problems Since Replacement!
. Installed LaserMax--No Problems!
. X200B--No Problems!
. New 33-Round Magazine--No Problems!

In about 7500-rounds, this G19 has been 100%! This is probably my favorite Glock, as it does everything well, and manages to be cute! ;)

As ammo costs escalated, I bought myself a G17 in the summer of 2006. Smart move as the gun has paid for itself inside a year on ammo savings alone! Issues Include:

. There Aren't Any! Something Like 7500-Rounds Without A Hiccup!

What can I say? Why wouldn't I be pleased? Glock has delivered as promised, on three purchases!

All three guns have aftermarket sights--as a great man once said, "Glock perfection ends at the top of the slide."

Accessories include X200 A & B, two LaserMax units, Meprolight, Trijicon and Dawson Precision sights, "Hogue Grip", two 33-round magazines, "Butt Plugs" all around, and a G21 LWD 10 mm Conversion Kit.

I'd recommend the G21 or G30 (which I've rented) without hesitation. If you find the grip(s) uncomfortable, check out the new G21 SF.

--Ray

Double Naught Spy
November 5, 2007, 08:45 AM
We have not had good luck with .45 acp Glocks at the Glock vs. 1911 matches. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=310567

You might want to try PMing Littlemac and asking about his experiences with them. Basically, he has had 4 blow up (kaboom) due to unsupported chambered. He also had repeated problems with trigger reset springs.

R&J
November 5, 2007, 09:03 AM
"You might want to try PMing Littlemac and asking about his experiences with them. Basically, he has had 4 blow up (kaboom) due to unsupported chambered."

*****

We're talking hand loads, aren't we? Glock kabooms always boil down to hand loads... :rolleyes:

Ammo-wise I've fired nearly everything available in .45 ACP, including +p stuff, through my G21, and at better than 8000-rounds, it's still going strong!

FWIW, I've got about 1200 10 mm rounds through it as well, my favorite being the DT 1600 fps, 767 ft/lbs, 135 gr Noslers. This is done with a KKM Conversion Barrel, 10 mm magazines, and 22 lb. recoil spring on a SS guide rod.

This is real-word, been there, did that, results. There is no interpretation.

I'm sorry. Something smells with your .45 ACP Littlemac referral...
Probably involves hand loads...

--Ray

Double Naught Spy
November 5, 2007, 10:47 AM
I believe it has been both handloads and factory.

What part of PMing Littlemac wasn't clear?

Silvanus
November 5, 2007, 11:05 AM
I only had the chance to shoot a Glock 21 once but I liked it. Even though it's big, it fit my hands well and I shot it as good as my 17. The recoil is quite manageable and accuracy is outstanding. If it fits your hands (which is probably the most important criteria for the 21) you'll like it.



I find it funny how some people say the HK45 is better, despite the fact that they most likely haven't shot one yet :D (same goes for G36s in rifle threads, I guess H&Ks marketing works great ;))

possum
November 5, 2007, 12:13 PM
IMHO, i don't like glocks in any other caliber than 9mm, i don't like mini glocks the only sc glock that i would own would be a 9mm. they do a great job and there best work is with the 9mm series, i care nothing for the others out there.

Shooters Plus
November 5, 2007, 12:43 PM
As mentioned, I wouldn't give up on the 1911 just yet. Most require a good bit of a break-in period. The Glock's would serve you well right out of the box though.

Good luck :)
Zack

R&J
November 6, 2007, 09:11 AM
DNS said, in part, "What part of PMing Littlemac wasn't clear?"

I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Nothing personal, but there's no way Littlemac had four healthy .45 ACP Glocks kaboom on him, where ammo anomalies or hand loads weren't involved. Every one of these things I've chased down points to ammo or hand loads--one guy insisted on shooting lead through the OEM barrel. Can't fix stupid. :banghead:

Plus over 8000-rounds through my own G21, not to mention the hundreds of rounds on rental-trials (I've fired/rented every caliber but GAP), tells me that these claims are absurd and misleading, when they're trotted out there as general warnings to new Glock buyers. :scrutiny:

I got some funky Blazer Brass ammo from Natchez once. Out of 500 .45 ACP rounds, about thirty had the bullets set back as much as a 1/8" too much. In addition to possibly causing an over pressure situation, if fired, these rounds would not feed, causing the FTFs I'd mentioned. The inner and outer shipping boxes were perfect. These are not weapon, but ammo problems.

--Ray

rwc
November 6, 2007, 10:14 PM
I had a kaboom 20+ years ago (Gen1 G17). We were young, cheap, and ... well ... not real wise, if you get my drift. Unjacket handloads.

Enough said unless someone wants the mercifully un-gory details.

R&J
November 7, 2007, 03:27 AM
"I had a kaboom 20+ years ago (Gen1 G17). We were young, cheap, and ... well ... not real wise, if you get my drift. Unjacket handloads."

*****

:D !!!

Nice to hear from an honest man!

I've got friends that shoot hand loads with Glocks, but always with an aftermarket barrel, approved for "lead" bullets. And even so, this is not an arena where "guessing" is good enough!

--Ray

Bulldog500
November 7, 2007, 05:26 AM
Glocks rock..

GLOOB
November 7, 2007, 09:35 PM
I have the G21SF, and I like it. No malfs, yet, though only ~200 rounds fired. The grip was a little uncomfortable at first, not so much due to the overall size, but from the width at the top of the backstrap. Interestingly, for such a large grip, there is no scalloping there, at all. My hand actually got sore the first few times I handled it, because it creates a little bit of a pressure point in the web of my hand. With a firm hold, the soft pad in the web of my hand gets stretched back and up, so that it hugs the "beavertail." Fear not, though; at least for me, I got used to it very quickly and now find it all day-comfortable and wouldn't have it any other way, because I feel that it aids in control. Actually, it reminds me of the feeling I had the first time I tried the high thumb hold (which I quickly adopted) on a 1911.

I absolutely love the trigger. Out of the box, it had some variation, where sometimes there would be a little creep, almost like a false break, followed by a crisp but slightly stacked break. I found it a little disappointing. But after some breaking in, this has all but completely disappeared. Now, it is near uniform, with pretty much zero takeup or creep and a clean, consistent break. Actually, it seems like you can "step" the trigger if you use both hands and work it back slowly, so what feels like the "working break" is actually the first part of the trigger travel. So when this "breaks," the rest of the very short travel that unlocks the sear becomes almost like part of the overtravel. It's like a smooth double-action revolver trigger which has a "point of no return" after which you get a smooth accelerated pull ending in an invisible break - but it's compacted into something like 1/8" of travel, and the point of no return is at the very start. I love it.

GLOOB
November 7, 2007, 09:43 PM
asdf

stevereno1
November 7, 2007, 10:06 PM
the g-21 is a fine weapon, if your hand is big enough to wrap around it. if not, i've heard it described as trying to grab a 2"x4". I have large hands, and love the g-21.

stevereno1
November 7, 2007, 10:15 PM
I own a real nice kimber classic custom 1911. I have the rosewood grips with the hex screws, and the wilson combat mags. I love to shoot this pistol, and can't get enough 45acp ammo for it. That being said, I would not want to carry it as a police weapon, or a military weapon where mud, water, sweat, etc... are a fact of life. for serious self defense scenarios, I want a simple, accurate, high cap pistol that goes bang every time you pull the trigger. I want a pistol that if gets caked with mud, I can piss on the action, shake it out, and commence to firing.

stevereno1
November 7, 2007, 10:24 PM
if you shoot non-jacketed bullets through a glock, it will explode, or a bullet will stop in the barrel. where can you buy non jacketed 9mm rounds anymore? I haven't seen them in at least 15 years.

FRT007
November 8, 2007, 08:54 AM
I have put 200 or so rounds through my Glock 21 SF with standard rail. I am amazed at how contollable the gun is. I can't comment on durability, though. It is a large gun but I have no problem handling it.

ExSoldier
November 8, 2007, 09:02 AM
I had a Glock 21 for years, but traded it for a Glock M30 which I think is the best of all worlds. It's compact but still hand-filling and it still takes the full size 13 rd mags of the 21. None of my Glocks (I currently only have a M27) have ever let me down in any way. Never a FTF or FTE or being simply too dirty to carry on as has been the case many times with a 1911. But I have a smallish hand and I found both the M30 and the M21 feel too "blocky" for a perfect ergonomic grip in my case. I don't have that problem with my M27.

gp911
November 8, 2007, 11:26 PM
Really like my Glock 21SF. Grip fits waaaay better than the regular 21, for my small-to-medium hands. For a carry gun, while I carry the 21SF, the 30 would probably be more comfortable due to the shorter barrel. Shooting-wise, I shot a 30 and liked it fine, so try 'em all out if possible and go with your gut. I may have to get a 30 just for a hot-weather gun :D

As for KBs, you'll find all sorts of rules of thumb from people with strong opinions, but they are all over the map so take 'em with a grain of salt. There's a link to a Glock 21 torture test on here somewhere where the guy has 100k+ rounds through one and throws it in dirt, sand, blasting media, etc. etc. and it keeps shooting once the crud is shaken off or hosed out of the magazine. My biggest issue with Glock is gun fit. If it feels really blocky in your hand you'll shoot it like crap, but rent a couple and make sure.

gp911

amprecon
November 8, 2007, 11:40 PM
It's the best .45acp I can shoot.

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