Need Ammo Advice


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The Dutchman
September 19, 2005, 04:20 AM
I know I have posted a similiar question a few months ago but I have changed my tactical philosophy since then. I am trying to find a good 9mm load besides the fmj that runs flawlessly through my P226. However, I have come to the conclusion that for an ammo choice I like the general characteristics of ball. It feeds reliably and since really only hits count (Which had to be drilled in my head by my vietnam vet uncle over the last 7 years) I have spend a few thousand rounds at tactical ranges in the past couple of months honing my marksminship. But I am being told by my dads law enforcement friends that my bulk 124gr. NATO ammo isn't the best choice for defensive use which is probably true. Anyway I like the idea of creating both an entry wound and exit wound ballistics wise (Which I am told is optimal) and I am wondering if anyone could recommend some ammo that will do just that, but better than what I have practicing with. Thanks for your time

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CombatArmsUSAF
September 19, 2005, 11:03 PM
CorBon PowrBall is similar to ball ammo but supposedly has JHP ballistic characteristics.

Gary G23
September 19, 2005, 11:30 PM
Practice with FMJ. Carry Speer +P Gold Dots. A Sig 226 should be reliable with most any halfway decent ammo.

Mulliga
September 19, 2005, 11:48 PM
If you want more penetration in a JHP, go with +P loads and 147 grainers. Any of the modern hollowpoints will do the job - Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, etc. Might also want to carry a spare mag with NATO FMJ.

DirksterG30
September 20, 2005, 10:12 AM
You could also look at EFMJ (Expanding Full-Metal Jacket) - feeds like FMJ, but expands when it hits the target:

http://www.thegunzone.com/efmj.html
http://www.ammoman.com/40_EP_DESC.htm

procomps
September 20, 2005, 05:40 PM
Remington 115gr JHP has the same ogive shape as the UMC FMJ loads, just with the tip cut off where the hollow point is. Feeds well in all my 9mms.

DHart
September 20, 2005, 11:08 PM
I'm a believer in heavier for caliber bullets, which typically offer better penetration than light for caliber bullets which move faster and may expand well, or perhaps expand too well and underpenetrate. I want excellent penetration through heavy clothing, a leather coat, and upraised arm(s) or hand(s), whatever.... and that's best achieved in 9mm with the 147 gr. I agree with the other posters that any of the big name 124 and 147 gr. JHP designs when fired from a 3.5 to 4" barrel should do well indeed and pretty much any SIG should feed them reliably. Personally, I like Golden Sabers a lot, so I buy them in bulk and reload my practice ammo with GS bullets, then carry factory GS loads for defense. I'd go with 147 gr. Golden Saber and/or Speer's 147 gr. Gold Dot or 124 gr. +P Gold Dot. Speer's new 124 gr. +P SB (Short Barrel) load should do well with short barrel 9's.

bountyhunter
September 21, 2005, 04:33 PM
But I am being told by my dads law enforcement friends that my bulk 124gr. NATO ammo isn't the best choice for defensive use For the record, I believe standard NATO 9mm ammo exceeds the pressure spec listed for 9mm +p, and probably would be rated +p+ if it was sold as such. I recall it's muzzle velocity is something close to 1300 fps? With 124 gr, that is plenty of whack for any CM hit and will also give good penetration. That ammo is plenty lethal.

From site: http://www.olive-drab.com/od_firearms_ammo_9mm.php

M882 NATO ammunition manufactured under U.S. Government contracts by Winchester-Western (Olin Corp.) and Federal has a 112 grain FMJ bullet and provides 385 meters/sec. (1263 fps) muzzle velocity as determined by official military test standards measured at 15 feet from the muzzle.

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/IIIC1a.html

# 6. 9mm Luger/Parabellum is available in many power levels. 9mm NATO is loaded to pressures substantially higher than most commercial ammunition and is only suitable for use in modern pistols designed for it and in good condition. Always follow manufacturers' instructions in this regard.


http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/pistol/pistol_ammo.html

*Max Mid Case: 43,000 psi (3,023 kg/cm²)


From Olympic ammo spec on their 9mm NATO ammo::

124-grain, loaded with an FMJ bullet. Muzzle Velocity is 1,251 F.P.S.; Muzzle Energy is 431 ft.-lbs.

Check the muzzle energy on many defense rounds and you will find 431 ft-lbs is as good as many .40 and .45 "defense loads".

cookekdjr
September 21, 2005, 04:59 PM
I would carry either a hot Nato ball round (that will approach the 125gr .357 performance) or GA Arms' 147 gr fmj load. At 950 fps with a 147gr load, its very similar to a +p .38 158gr load, which is a pretty good manstopper.
Don't waste your money or hp's in a handgun. They do not reliably expand in human tissue at handgun velocities.
I would much rather shoot a round that I knew would feed every time than a "magic bullet" that may or may not jam.
Stick with ball.
-David

DHart
September 21, 2005, 05:12 PM
These days most current production pistols are as reliable with Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, and Hydrashoks as they are with ball, so you generally don't have to make the choice for ball due to reliability factors. And it's easy to confirm that with shooting a few boxes.

If JHP's expand well, that's great. If they plug up and don't expand, they perform about like ball, which ain't too bad. The key factor after reliable functioning is penetration. Ball is good at that because it tends not to expand much, if at all. This is where the light weight hollowpoints can really fail: when they overexpand and underpenetrate.

Generally speaking, heavy-for-caliber hollowpoints (like 147 gr. in 9mm, 180 gr. in .40, 158 gr. in .357, etc.) will tend to penetrate well whether they expand or they don't and if they do expand, so much the better. This is why I tend to avoid lightweight JHP's, which can perform well under certain circumstances, but fail miserably under others.

cookekdjr
September 21, 2005, 05:27 PM
Generally speaking, heavy-for-caliber hollowpoints (like 147 gr. in 9mm, 180 gr. in .40, 158 gr. in .357, etc.) will tend to penetrate well whether they expand or they don't and if they do expand, so much the better. This is why I tend to avoid lightweight JHP's, which can perform well under certain circumstances, but fail miserably under others.

Very true. What's scary is when hp's do expand, like in a Mark Coates or Miami Massacre situation. All expansion + no penetration = perp who is alive and kicking and shooting back at you- despite the 4-5 center mass hits you put in the guy's torso.
You don't see/read about situations like that with the heavy bullets.
-David

Cueball
September 22, 2005, 12:06 AM
I use Hydrashocks in mine.

saltydog452
September 22, 2005, 10:18 AM
There is a moderator here on The High Road who has had lots of experience with the 9mm pistols.

I suggest that you contact Mr. Stephen A. Camp. His observaions regarding reliability and terminal effectiveness 9mm ammunition and the pistols that fire them are well worth your consideration.

salty.

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