.32 auto rimlock is real


PDA






Candiru
September 20, 2005, 01:11 AM
On Sunday I was preparing to take my Kel-Tec P-32 to the range by unloading my carry ammo, Cor-Bon hollowpoints. After popping the mag and ejecting the round in the chamber, I went to strip the hollowpoints from the magazine when I discovered that the top round had rimlocked. I had been carrying a .32 derringer all week! What makes this really interesting was the fact that the magazine that experienced the rimlock had a Kel-Tec factory rimlock prevention kit installed.

I had been on the fence over the efficacy of .32 auto hollowpoints, but this cinches it for me: FMJ all the way, baby! (Besides, the bulging in ejected Cor-Bon cases was kinda scary.) If you're carrying hollowpoints in your .32, be very careful. I have always been very conscientious about loading my magazines, but the round must have shifted back of its own accord during everyday movement. I wanted to share this with everyone so that hopefully nobody will ever personally encounter rimlock in anything but innocuous circumstances.

If you enjoyed reading about ".32 auto rimlock is real" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
scbair
September 20, 2005, 08:22 AM
I experienced the same thing with my P32 & Fiocchi JHPs. Fortunately, at the range, not on the street!

Rattled me so badly that I retired the P32, and reverted to a NAA .22 WMR Black Widow, loaded with CCI +Vs, for my deep-concealment needs. Less capacity, forget a "tactical relaod," and slower on follow-up shots, but I am more confident it'll function!

Not really "Six for Sure," ..... maybe "Five for Fertain??????" :D

Onmilo
September 20, 2005, 08:39 AM
I had a rimlock occur with my Kel-Tec P32 using GECO full metal jacket ammunition.
I haven't given up on the gun, was and am not impressed with any of the .32 auto hollowpoint loadings that are available, and I load magazines much more carefully now.
My boo boo also occurred on the shooting range and taught me a valuable lesson, load all magazines like I intend to use them for defense.

jonnyc
September 20, 2005, 09:37 AM
I had the problem with a few different JHPs in my P32, went to FMJ only. No problems since, about 700-800 rounds.
Candiru, I would suggest that you don't unload carry mags, but fire them at the beginning of the range session instead. It not only refreshes your carry ammo, it also (hopefully) gives you the confidence and reassurance that your choice of weapon and ammo were correct.

XavierBreath
September 20, 2005, 09:46 AM
Clarification on Rim Lock (http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/rimlock.htm) for those who have never heard of it.

pauli
September 20, 2005, 10:27 AM
jonnyc beat me to it.

you had a rimlock while unloading a magazine, not while firing the gun; you'll never know how it would have actually performed.

armoredman
September 20, 2005, 11:36 AM
Never happened in either of my CZ70s when I had them. Great little inexpensive milsurp pistols....

Candiru
September 20, 2005, 11:40 AM
To clarify for those who noted that I encountered rimlock while unloading, the first round in the magazine was rimlocked when I ejected the mag.

Wilson 17&26
September 20, 2005, 01:32 PM
Kel-Tec sells a P-32 Rimlock Preventor for $8.65 as I recall (1-800-515-9983 to verify price). Those that prefer JHP ammo would be well served to set up a separate magazine for those rounds while keeping a second for longer FMJ.

W Turner
September 20, 2005, 02:29 PM
My wife's P32 did the same thing. I took hers out of her purse to clean it and when I ejected the mag, I could not get hte top round out. Had to take the mag apart from the bottom so I could unload it. It was immediately put in the box and sold. It had been 100% reliable up until that point. This is exactly why I will only carry the P3AT or a j-frame in .38spl.


W

mtnbkr
September 20, 2005, 03:00 PM
I've owned a P32 for nearly 4 years (and 1500rnds). In that time, I've experienced 2 actual rimlocks. None have occured during firing. I also fire my "carry ammo" when I take that gun to the range for the purpose of checking what I was carrying and refreshing the carry load. Not once has a rimlock tied up the gun during actual firing. I'm not convinced it will stop the gun.

Chris

jonnyc
September 20, 2005, 07:27 PM
Mtnbkr, it has happened to me in the firing cycle, with Hydra-Shoks and Corbons. Nothing but happiness with FMJ.

Javelin Man
September 20, 2005, 08:54 PM
I carry a hollow point in the tube and one on top of the magazine. The rest below are all fmj. I also watch out for WWB as some of them are flat nose which has the same dimensions as a hollowpoint.

I've never had a rimlock with my P32, and I hope this prevents one from ever happening. Some doubt the efficacy of hollow points in .32s anyway, so I'll throw a couple of each style of bullets at the BG and see which ones he catches.

deputy tom
September 20, 2005, 11:15 PM
My sixth and very last kel-tec .32 rim-locked on Winch. ball ammo.I knew of the situation with shorter OAL ammo but ball??I'm done with them..tom. :fire:

obxned
April 26, 2007, 01:26 AM
Damned good reason to never own a .32!!!

1 old 0311
April 26, 2007, 04:54 AM
I shoot a mixed mag loaded in my Guardian. Never had a problem. Another reason I bought a Guardian, rather than a Kel Tec, or Seecamp.

Whirlwind06
April 26, 2007, 08:35 AM
I don't think you can actually blame the gun.
This could happen with pistol chambering the .32 ACP

Before I sold my KT .32 I just carried FMJ.
I sold mine to help finance another purchase.

Wilson 17&26
April 26, 2007, 10:26 AM
Any .32 pistol magazine that will accept ball can be rimlocked with shorter ammo such as JHP. A great explanation of this with pictures can be found here http://1bad69.com/keltec/rimlock.htm For those shooting JHP ammo in a P-32, Kel-Tec sells a rimlock spacer kit for your extra magazine or you can make a Flyer Wire for free.

As for myself, I carry JHP Cor-Bon in the pipe and the top round in the magazine with the remainder FMJ. This also avoids rimlock.

Geronimo45
April 26, 2007, 10:42 AM
Have a CZ 70 in .32. No rimlock with .32 FMJ from Remington.

kokapelli
April 26, 2007, 11:06 AM
I shoot a mixed mag loaded in my Guardian. Never had a problem. Another reason I bought a Guardian, rather than a Kel Tec, or Seecamp.
I had a guardian before I switched to a P-32
and I did have a rimlock with the guardian too.

MachIVshooter
April 27, 2007, 01:06 AM
you had a rimlock while unloading a magazine, not while firing the gun; you'll never know how it would have actually performed

Exactly. The rounds are stripped from the magazine with a great deal more force when the gun is fired than what you can exert with your thumb (without causing pain).

I've never had rimlock cause a stoppage in my .25's and .32's during firing, even though I've damaged finger nails trying to empty the magazines by hand.

Whirlwind06
April 27, 2007, 08:41 AM
Can a .25 ACP rim lock also?

Onmilo
April 27, 2007, 09:00 AM
A .25 can rimlock but you would have to work awfully hard to make it happen.

I sometimes wonder if old JMB came up with the rimless .380acp and .45acp to alleviate the rimlock issue with .32 and .38 auto/Super guns.
Too bad the .380 has a habit of erratic extraction.
I think he may have got it just right with the .45acp.

kokapelli
April 27, 2007, 09:29 AM
Too bad the .380 has a habit of erratic extraction.
Never heard of that before.

None of the six 380 pistols I owned have had it!

Could you elaborate on that?

N.M. Edmands
April 27, 2007, 11:36 AM
My wife had an actual rimlock problem with her P32 at the range. It occured on a mag change from slide lock with a spare mag carried loose in her pocket. The load was the 60gr Silvertip.[.915 oal] After looking into the problem, her loadout is now; Win in chamber, mags full up with Magtech 71gr JHP. [.965 oal.]
No scientific testing, but the Magtech is a barky little load

VARifleman
April 27, 2007, 02:01 PM
.38 auto/Super guns.
Mabye JMB did, but now we have .38 super comp that alleviates that problem as well for those wanting .38 super ballistics.

Onmilo
April 27, 2007, 11:30 PM
Early design .380 pistols had extractor and ejection issues.

If you work on guns you will see this problem.

Walther PP and PPK pistols and Colt 1908s were probably the worst.
Even the fairly Modern Colt Mustang and .380 Government are not the most reliable small handguns because of too weak an extractor.
The Beretta 1934 solved some problems with a heavier extractor and more open ejection port.

Most modern pistols using modern ammunition are 1000 times more reliable than the early pistol and ammunition designs.

LightningJoe
April 27, 2007, 11:50 PM
I've experienced rimlock with JHP in my P-32. I only use FMJ now. You can modify the magazines to prevent rimlock with hollowpoints, but you're probably better off with FMJ out of a .32 anyway.

Rimlock is a serious malfunction that can't quickly be cleared. In an actual encounter, your gun would be disabled.

kokapelli
April 28, 2007, 10:11 AM
Early design .380 pistols had extractor and ejection issues.

If you work on guns you will see this problem.

Walther PP and PPK pistols and Colt 1908s were probably the worst.
Even the fairly Modern Colt Mustang and .380 Government are not the most reliable small handguns because of too weak an extractor.
The Beretta 1934 solved some problems with a heavier extractor and more open ejection port.

Most modern pistols using modern ammunition are 1000 times more reliable than the early pistol and ammunition designs.
In your earlier post you said__Too bad the .380 has a habit of erratic extraction.
So now what I think you are saying is, some early pistols had "extraction problems" and it is not a problem with the 380 round, is that right?

EricShelton
April 29, 2008, 03:15 AM
Spent a few rounds today in my KelTec P32, and yeah, rimlock is real.

I had it happen twice, I could've sworn I was being careful loading the magazines, and one of the rimlocked mags was the one I was carrying.

And yes, I had rimlock stop my firing. So don't believe that the slide/recoil will overcome rimlock. It'll stop your shooting cold. The gent earlier who said he was carrying a .32 derringer couldn't have been more right.

An interesting note, I also experienced to failures to eject using HydraShok, but CorBon functioned perfectly, if you discount the rimlock that stopped me on my second round. I had to take the magazine baseplate off...

I love my little .32, but I'm thinking it may get sold to finance a 1911 or a j-frame...

USMCDK
April 29, 2008, 05:47 AM
is this something that only/relatively happens in .32acp???

I have a .45acp and I have never had that happen with and without JHP. Then again I also do the military thing and tap the back of the mag to my palm after loading.

So again does this only happen with the .32 or can it happen with any caliber???

One last question, not to derail thread, what do you call it when a .22lr doesn't get extracted from the chamber after firing??? Is that only called a FTE???

usp9
April 29, 2008, 08:08 AM
I am convinced rimlock is related to the shape of the case base and facilitated by a roomy magazine that allows the ammo to shift too much. I have a CZ83 that cannot go through a mag of U.S. made ammo without rimlock... and I mean "dismantle the mag" type of rimlock. On the other hand, European ammo feeds fine. European ammo has a larger "cut" between the rim and the case body, while N. American ammo has a smaller, tighter gap between them. The CZ mag is especially roomy and allows for a lot of movement, so no matter how carefully you load, the rounds shift back and forth.

My Seecamp on the other hand eats all U.S. made ammo, due to the specialized mag design which prevents shifting. I've never had an issue with rimlock in the Seecamp. If the round fits in the magazine, it will function...period.

Wilson 17&26
April 29, 2008, 09:34 AM
Kel-Tec 1-800-515-9983 sells a magazine Rimlock Spacer (part #P32-314) for about $9 or you can make a Flyer Wire for about 5. Either will prevent rimlock when using JHP or other short .32 ammo.

kokapelli
April 29, 2008, 09:43 AM
Yes, rimlock is due to the fact that the acp round is actually a semi rimmed cartridge that will allow the top round to ride back and over the next round in a loose fitting magazine and then hanging up on the lower round's rim.

Seecamp solved the problem with a tight (front to back) magazine. That's why Seecamp originally recommende only using the short AOL Silvertip round and malfunctioned with any round that had a longer AOL.

Kel Tec solved the problem in their P32, by making available a magazine spacer to fill the excess space when using short AOL rounds.

In the P32, you can remove the spacer if you want to use the longer AOL, FMJ rounds.

Candiru
April 29, 2008, 11:17 AM
Wow, talk about thread necromancy. I posted this thing almost three years ago! It's still relevant, though.

Just to add to the discussion, the rimlock in question occurred with the magazine spacer in place. I since got rid of the P-32 and replaced it with a S&W Model 60. No rimlock on that thing yet...

kokapelli
April 29, 2008, 12:14 PM
necromancy |ˈnekrəˌmansē|
noun
the supposed practice of communicating with the dead, esp. in order to predict the future.
witchcraft, sorcery, or black magic in general.

Rimlock is the main reason I moved up to the P-3AT.

Candiru
April 29, 2008, 12:25 PM
necromancy |ˈnekrəˌmansē|
noun
the supposed practice of communicating with the dead, esp. in order to predict the future.
witchcraft, sorcery, or black magic in general.


The definition I knew referred to conjuring the dead, which was the spin I was putting on it.

kokapelli
April 29, 2008, 12:36 PM
What I figured-;):)

JERRY
April 29, 2008, 12:39 PM
the Seecamp .32 is immune to this issue as the magazine is made too small for standard FMJ and will only allow the shorter H.P. ammo in it. there is not enough clearence for the H.P. ammo to shift causing rim lock.

Buzmech
April 29, 2008, 12:55 PM
I too have the Naa 32 and run different manufs jhp and have never had rimlock either. Of course my mag springs are up to date, if that makes a difference.

If you enjoyed reading about ".32 auto rimlock is real" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!