a cheap 9mm or other gun


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Stauble
September 20, 2005, 12:41 PM
the last gun show i went to i saw the Makarovs they had there. i went home and researched it and they all say that is an extremly reliable gun. i was all set and ready to get it but im having secong thoughts now because the ammo can really only b bought offline or at a gushow, and after the new orleans situation id like a caliber that is more common
are thier any other autoloaders that are as realiable as the makarov and are in a more common caliber. i was thinkin of gettin somethin in the 9x19mm round but all the guns int hat round seem to be a bit outa my price range

if there is nothin i guess ill just get the makarov and buy the ammo 2000 at a time

thanx

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Brian D.
September 20, 2005, 12:48 PM
There is also the Star BM, an import that was made some years back, and places like Southern Ohio Gun carry nowadays. It's chambered for 9mm Parabellum. Runs about $130-$150.

But it seems to me like the Makarovs have gotten so popular that many stores carry at least some ammo for them.

Wilson 17&26
September 20, 2005, 02:01 PM
NIB Kel-Tec P-11s are about $225 at Texas gunshows but they only weigh 14oz, which means there’s some recoil. They come with a 10 round magazine but a same-size 12 round mag is available. Also includes a life time warranty.

CDNN Sports has some pre-owned 9mm Glocks with HC magazines for $340.

hotpig
September 20, 2005, 02:43 PM
You have the Star and Hi Point that are in the same price range. Both are ok guns. Most other brands in this range are junk.

Red Tornado
September 20, 2005, 02:50 PM
I agree with Brian, it seems that Mak ammo is popping up everywhere. Look at a few gun shops and see if they don't have some...you may be surprised.
RT

CajunBass
September 20, 2005, 06:44 PM
Around here at least, I can't find Makarov ammo at but one shop, and it costs a premium. On the other hand I can get 9mm ammo almost anywhere at discount prices.

I really like my Hi-Point C-9. It's reliable, and more accurate than I am.

I've got a Mak too, but it's a pain to have to order ammo off the net, so I don't shoot it near as much as I do my Hi-Point.

TooTaxed
September 20, 2005, 07:32 PM
The MAKs are a real bargain...I have two, an 8-shot Bulgarian and a 10-shot Russian, plus I've bought a CZ-83 in 9-mm MAK. You can probably pick up ammo at the gunshows. Here in Georgia, all gunshops I've visited have MAK ammo. And, as you note, you can always order in bulk. ;)

MachIVshooter
September 20, 2005, 09:52 PM
EAA/Tanfoglio Witness. ~$350 and the most bang for the buck out there, IMO. Tanfoglio's are probably the most underrated, undermentioned and underpriced auto's on the market. The quality of these guns is something the likes of which you would expect of a $600-$700 pistol.

atblis
September 20, 2005, 09:59 PM
Regarding the EAA Witness (I own four of them)

"Everything I'd expect out of a 600-700 dollar gun." Not really.

There priced about right for what you get. There is a reason they don't sell for more, and more often (Hint: EAA maybe).

Actually it is about what I'd expect out of a 350 dollar gun (especially the customer service). In fact I wouldn't pay $350 for one ($269.99, well...). The Witnesses are certainly nice guns, but in their current form they are not even close to being a 600-700 dollar gun. I would certainly not recommend them to somebody who wants something that can be counted on out of the box.

I don't know where you live but I think your best bet for a quality 9mm is a CZ75B. Around me, a CZ75B Retro was selling for 359.99 NIB with 2 16rnd mags.

Tropical Z
September 20, 2005, 10:17 PM
The only "real" caliber (.40S&W,.45acp or 9x19)handguns that are new and extremely affordable while being reliable are Hi-Points.Makarovs are great guns,but in a ".380" like caliber.I'd avoid the Stars like the plague.They can be real nightmares.Some of them have seen a LOT more rounds than others and parts can be a pain in the neck to hunt down.

karlsgunbunker
September 20, 2005, 11:22 PM
I bought one of these for the wife:

http://www.southernohiogun.com/surplushandguns2.html

I've got a Hi-point C9, Excellent gun accurate and reliable, cheap at $150

I hear good things about the Mak and ammo is becoming more available.

What about a $100 CZ-52? Makarov.com sells hollow points in 7.62 x 25.

I've been thinking about carrying my TT-33 with these. Lighter than the .45 and still powerful.

TooTaxed
September 22, 2005, 07:12 PM
I have a .45 EAA Witness from the EAA Accuracy Factory...upgraded parts, compensator, adjustable sights, matched mags, ect...in their nice aluminum fitted case. Regretably, it's strictly a hardball gun...won't fire SWCL reliably, which is what I prefer for target use. Much prefer my Norinco 1911AI clone, which is just as acccurate and digests every bullet type and load I throw at it. :eek:

TooTaxed
September 22, 2005, 07:17 PM
I have a .45 EAA Witness from the EAA Accuracy Factory...upgraded parts, compensator, adjustable sights, matched mags, ect...in their nice aluminum fitted case. Regretably, it's strictly a hardball gun...won't fire SWCL reliably, which is what I prefer for target use. Much prefer my Norinco 1911AI clone, which is just as acccurate and digests every bullet type and load I throw at it. :eek:

MachIVshooter
September 22, 2005, 11:25 PM
There priced about right for what you get. There is a reason they don't sell for more, and more often (Hint: EAA maybe).

I'll agree that the importer's CS sucks.

Actually it is about what I'd expect out of a 350 dollar gun (especially the customer service). In fact I wouldn't pay $350 for one ($269.99, well...). The Witnesses are certainly nice guns, but in their current form they are not even close to being a 600-700 dollar gun. I would certainly not recommend them to somebody who wants something that can be counted on out of the box.

I have a 9mm fullsize and a 10mm compact. The 9mm has a bit over 13,000 rounds through it with 7 malfunctions, making it more reliable (and more accurate) than my 92FS Inox, which cost me $640. The 10mm runs flawlessly so long as I stay away from Hornady XTP's. My $1,080 Kimber is more finicky.

EAA is a lowsy company to deal with, but Tanfoglio makes a very solid gun. Next on my list is a Witness Hunter 10mm (unless they start importing the stock custom).

Borachon
September 23, 2005, 12:01 AM
After you shoot someone in self defense, the police have this annoying habit of taking your gun away from you for evidence. Oftentimes, the person who was shot will have friends, fellow gang members...or will turn out to be your brother-in-law (in which case, you can COUNT ON a feud starting that very day) or some other potential hazard could be going on around you at the same time...like a flooded city with a bunch of rioters around you. A time when you particularly don't want to have your handgun taken away from you.

So...would you rather they took your $800 Kimber or your $100 CZ-52? I'd suggest getting 2 or 3 of the cheapest reliable guns you can find. That way you have a spare or two when the police take your gun for evidence.

I personally like the Makarov. It's small, concealable, reliable and is somewhere between a .380 and a 9x19 in power..albeit more toward the .380. In fact, you can buy Makarovs in .380 caliber and not have to worry about the "ammo problem". Since a 1000 rounds of 9x18 only costs a $100ish bucks, it seems fairly easy to stock up. Also, parts availability is pretty good for a surplus firearm.

I have zero experience with the Star Model BM, but I've *heard* that some of them are not so good quality and that parts availability for replacement might not be all that great. Please correct me if I'm mistaken on that. They look pretty concealable though, and they are chambered in the 9x19. Although...I have wondered....if you are worried about ammo sources after a hurricane, I can tell you from experience...the pawnshop WILL BE closed. Also...there won't be any deliveries coming in by UPS or FedEx. So if you didn't stockpile a couple of boxes, the only way you can get ammo is to 1) buy it from someone who would be willing to sell you some after the earthquake, hurricane etc (in which case you'll be paying $100 a box of 50 rounds) or 2) you can take it from someone who you shot in self defense (or you can outright steal it at gunpoint from someone...but I'd like to keep this on a legal level).

So my question is this...if you are taking option number 2 as a method of getting ammo, why are you worried about YOUR gun's ammo...you can take the OTHER FELLOWS gun..which persumably shoots the same ammo he is carrying on him? Now you have your gun and his...if you find ammo for your piece or his somewhere further down the line...great. You don't have to be looking just for the one caliber.

Edited Afterthought:
I thought about this a couple of minutes longer and start laughing a little bit. I was imagining all of us standing around a ruined pawnshop with the owner and everyone is asking if any 9x19 is still left after the looters came through, and the pawnshop owner saying that the only thing he has left is 9x18...because no one wanted it!

GunGoBoom
September 23, 2005, 12:03 AM
Wow, you guys are actually gonna cause me to buy a Hi Point one of these days. I'd never have considered that even 2 years ago.

Moonclip
September 23, 2005, 01:21 AM
Inexpensive 9mm? How about a Browning High Power clone like a FEG or an Argentine FM? Or look for a used Ruger P95 or P89. A used CZ75 might pop up too.

Rexrider
September 23, 2005, 05:15 AM
Bersa makes a 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45 acp. I saw them at the last gunshow. All but the 45 were under $300. The 45 was $303.

I wish I had picked one up.

Much better than a Hightpoint, IMHO.

+1 on the High power clone.

chopinbloc
September 23, 2005, 05:53 AM
rugers are built like tanks, competition accurate, reliable is an understatement and they are very reasonably priced. pretty, well, i have a different sense of beauty than most but they definitely have a, uh, purposeful look. i've heard hi-points are very reliable, too.

if you really are limited to under two hundred bones, get the mak. the cartridge has enough ooph to get the job done and it'll serve as a decent carry piece. there are very few pistols in that price range that are as small and will actually work.

http://ammoman.com/index.htm

http://catalog.jgsales.com/

Shootcraps
September 23, 2005, 08:02 AM
I wouldn't touch a Hi-Point. I'd get a Ruger or a Rock Island.

The Kel-Tec P11 is an excellent gun as well. I carried one for years.

ulflyer
September 23, 2005, 08:23 AM
Used Sigmas are fairly inexpensive and seem to be well thought of.

MICHAEL T
September 23, 2005, 12:31 PM
For a small carry pistol I get a Bersa 380. You can find old S&W 38 spl in that price range also.

chopinbloc
September 24, 2005, 04:44 AM
I wouldn't touch a Hi-Point. I'd get a Ruger or a Rock Island.

both a ruger and a rock island are going to be about three to four times the price range of the mak he was looking at. remember, he wants a chep gun. further, like any 1911, it is unlikely the rock island will run well right out of the box. trips to the gunsmith will quickly double or triple the cost. rugers will run just fine but even used, they are considerably more than a mak or a hi-point. all gun snobbery aside, if i had only $200 to spend on gun, ammo and accesories, i'd get a mak or a hi-point. the hi-point is not pretty but it is stone cold reliable and it's cheap. if i wanted to conceal, i'd get a mak, if i just wanted it for the nightstand or the glove box, i'd get the hi-point because it will be easier to handle and have slightly more power. look, some cheap guns are just cheap and some are simply inexpensive. the hi-point is the latter.

Shootcraps
September 24, 2005, 06:55 AM
like any 1911, it is unlikely the rock island will run well right out of the box. trips to the gunsmith will quickly double or triple the cost.

Wrong. The Rock Islands are well known for being very reliable.

He doesn't state what his budget is, but if it is that limited, a used S&W, Taurus or Ruger revolver is his best bet.

chopinbloc
September 25, 2005, 12:41 AM
1911s in general, regardless of their manufacturer are likely to need tuning before they run quite right. this is not always true, of course; my auto ordnance ran just fine before i let a butcher touch it and still runs well, just has other issues. my kimber ran well for the first three hundred rounds or so then needed a little pollishing and other minor work. not saying you can't get a reliable 1911 out of the box but i can pretty much guarantee that a mak, ruger or hi-point will work flawlessly without multiple trips to the 'smith. and no he doesn't say what his budget is but the title of the thread is "a cheap 9mm or other gun" and he said he was leaning towards a mak. that pretty much means under $200. in that price range i'd recommend going with the mak and buying ammo by the case online if you can't find it locally. heck, even if you can find it locally it's still usually a better deal to buy it online. if he could spend about twice that, then i'd recommend a new ruger or a used glock.

Shootcraps
September 25, 2005, 10:05 AM
1911s in general, regardless of their manufacturer are likely to need tuning before they run quite right.

Then I'm a very lucky man. ALL of my 1911s (9 of them) have all been 100% without a gunsmith touching them. I should buy a lottery ticket before my luck runs out. ;)

It might be more correct to say that any 1911 that deviates from JMBs design specs, might need some tuning. A box-stock 1911 to spec should eat ball ammo all day long.

With a $200 budget I'd recommend a used S&W, Ruger or Taurus revolver. All of them have lifetime warranties, and you could shoot lots of 38wadcutter for practice.

I don't have any experience with the Maks, but I hear they are pretty good guns.

Ukraine Train
September 26, 2005, 10:52 AM
Can't believe no one's mentioned Arcus yet. They come in four flavors, all about $250 new. Most parts are interchangeable with hi powers. There's the 94 (SA fullsize), 94C (SA compact), 98 (DA fullsize), and 98C (DA compact). I have a 98C and love it. After a few thousand rounds the only problem I had was a broken extractor but other than that it's been great.

cookekdjr
September 26, 2005, 11:44 AM
I know this is a semi-auto thread, but I feel obligated to suggest a S&W Model 10 police trade-in.
Under $200, and .38 special is available everywhere.
-David

bestseller92
September 15, 2006, 08:42 AM
You can find Ruger P95 9mms in great condition for less than $225 if you shop around.

foghornl
September 15, 2006, 09:00 AM
Not sure if they have stores in your area, but around here (NE Ohio) Gander Mountain chain has the Bersa Thunder .380 for under $230, N-I-B.

While I am not a fan of the .380 cartridge, it WILL get the job done if you do your part. I have shot a couple of Maks over the last few years. Shot them pretty well for the size of the gun and those very tiny micro-sights.

Have seen Maks for sale at or under the $200 mark, so look around a bit.

MCgunner
September 15, 2006, 10:07 AM
If you like the Mak and don't like the caliber, they do make 'em in .380ACP, pretty common caliber. I've often though I'd like to get a Mak to play with, doubt I'd wanna carry it much. I have a Kel Tec P11 that I prefer for carry, lighter, smaller, more powerful, and accurate. It fits in a pocket and a Mak would have to be carried IWB. If I'm going to carry IWB, might as well load up the Ruger P90 with .45ACPs and carry the KT as a back up in the pocket. :D A Mak would be a fun gun to play with, but then I could say that about a LOT of guns. Heck, I've got a LOT of guns that fit in that category that I don't carry. :rolleyes:

cookekdjr
September 15, 2006, 10:12 AM
Suggestions: Used .38/.357 revolver, or .380 Bersa, or Mak.
-David

modifiedbrowning
September 15, 2006, 10:58 AM
Bersa.
www.bersafirearmsusa.com

weregunner
September 15, 2006, 11:30 AM
A couple of suggestions. If you want a cheap gun and can't find a Makarov, then maybe a CZ 82 or 83 would do. Go to www.makarov.com . They sell them there and the other sponsors of the message board have them if the Mak store doesn't. AIM surplus and the other military stores there should have something. J&G Sales also has CZs. Bud's Gun Shop is a good place to find any used or new 9mm. and the prices are hard to beat. J&G Sales has Ruger P94s on sale within your budget. Are there any gunshows in your area? Used Ruger P series 9s would be a good bet.Good luck on your search.

seeker_two
September 15, 2006, 11:51 AM
In this price range, I'd also look at some of the Spanish autopistos. Star Model B's, BM's, and Firestars in 9mm can be found on the surplus or used market for under $200, and they will work well with most non-+P ammo. I have a Firestar M43 that I bought for $150, and it works great with S&B FMJ & Pow'R'Ball ammo (my preference). :cool:

Astra and Llama autos can also be found inexpensively. Astra is a great brand, but the Llama's can be hit-or-miss in quality-- caveat emptor.

Happy shopping.... :D

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