Makarov Czech CZ52 or Star Model BM


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Stauble
September 20, 2005, 02:34 PM
im goin to be goin to a gun show this weekend. i plan on buyin a case of 7.62x39mm ammo for a new SKS
but id also like to get a nice handgun but i have no idea what to get. so faf ive been able to narrow it down to 3 guns, the Makarov, Czech CZ52, or Star Model BM. these are handguns that seem to be in my price range.
i know a little bit bout the makarov but i dont know anythin bout the other ones.
for me the most important thing is reliabilty. i want to pull the trigger and not have to worry bout it jamming. accurancy is also a factor, and the price of the ammo
any info on any of these guns would b apprecitated, i really wanna buy one of thses 3 on saturday :D

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critter
September 20, 2005, 03:07 PM
I have a Star BM and think it is a fine little gun. They can be had for under $200 in good shape. It is chambered in the very commom 9mm (9 X 19) which can be had most anywhere at low cost. There is no grip safety, but it does a magazine safety (won't fire with the mag out) and a thumb safety which cams the hammer back and holds it very securely when applied. It does not have the firing pin safety (to parevent the ever so rare event of firing if it is dropped heavily on it's nose) that has become common of late due to overzelous lawyering.

The gun itself is all steel and looks sort of a shrunken 1911. Mine is well used (as they all probably are) but is 100% reliable (an absolute MUST IMHO). Accuracy is of for what it is. The sights are a bit small but usable.

My choice, but YMMV.

coltrane679
September 20, 2005, 03:29 PM
You didn't mention the proposed use of your acquisition, which affects the answer here, I think.

I have a couple of CZ 52s. They are great guns. They would not, however, make great carry guns, IMO--too large. I think they make especially good car or truck guns, however. They are cheap, which makes them not such a weeping affair should they get stolen (either with or without the car), and the hot round they fire ensures excellent penetration even through treated auto glass (pretty common here in Florida). I'd also take the CZ 52 as a home defensive gun over the other two, again because of the round--although I'd get some HPs (Reed Ammunition has a nice variety).

For carry, either of your two other choices would be fine, IMO, although the Mak has a big size edge--easiet to conceal. For punching paper and cans, I'd go with the cheapest ammo choice, which is the Star BM, unless you like extra sizzle--then you'd be back to the CZ-52.

Which show in Florida are you talking about? I'll be at Ft. Lauderdale this weekend.

Red Tornado
September 20, 2005, 03:45 PM
I don't have a Star, but I've heard enough good that I would like one. I'm a 9mm fan, and completely believe the Star would serve any purpose I'd want it to. Now...

As for the Mak and CZ52, I love 'em both.

I agree w/ Coltrane that the CZ52 is a great truck gun. If I throw a gun in the truck, that's the one. It's a blast to target shoot, and the ammo's fairly cheap online. You can order surplus for about $8.50/70 rounds. It's a big solid gun, and soaks up the recoil quite well. The only down side is the trigger pull. Mine sucks, but there are some things you can do to improve it. If you carried it (open carry most likely, it's huge for concealed), or threw it in the truck, you'd have it cocked and locked.

The Mak is better for carry, as it's much smaller. It's also a great plinker, but there's a bit more perceived recoil due to the size of the gun, however, it's not bad enough to be a big factor. Ammo's not that expensive and it's a bit more available than 7.62x25, at least in my neck of the swamp. There are also more self defense loads, without getting into that whole small and fast vs. bigger and slower. (The 9x18 is actually .364, so technically it's a bigger hole than 9x19.) For carry, it's DA/SA, cocked and locked isn't an option. When you put on the safety, it also acts as a decocker.

I wouldn't feel under gunned with any of them, but they do feel VEEEEERRRY different. See which one feels the best, and you'll be very happy.

As an aside, not meaning to influence you in any way, I LOVE an 85 grain bullet at 1600 fps. :evil: That's just too much fun.
Happy shopping,
RT

Ohen Cepel
September 20, 2005, 03:55 PM
I would get the CZ. I really enjoy mine. Also, I think the others might be around and available a bit longer. I don't see the CZ's being available at the current price much longer.

The other 2 are fine choices, I would just take the CZ now.

coltrane679
September 20, 2005, 04:11 PM
"As an aside, not meaning to influence you in any way, I LOVE an 85 grain bullet at 1600 fps. That's just too much fun."

Not to mention a 50 grain bullet at 2000+ fps:

Bang, zoom! To the moon, Alice! (http://www.qual-cart.com/223_timbs.htm)

Uh-oh, I guess I DID mention it. Did I also mention this is at about the eighth of the price of the FN Five-Seven? I guess I did.

Sam
September 20, 2005, 04:13 PM
Get the Star.
Ammo availability is much much better, it is waaay more ergonomic and it shoots better. I liked it so much I bought the company! OK only 36 of them for refurb and resale. went like hotcakes and no one has brought one back or complained about any of them. Only sold 35, kep one for myself. It's sweet little gun.

Sam

Mulliga
September 20, 2005, 04:28 PM
I'd go with a Mak if reliability is the chief concern. The ammo is not expensive, since you can find cases of Wolf online or at a show that will work perfectly well.

res1b3uq
September 20, 2005, 04:36 PM
If you will be using it for carry, there are a few BKM's around. These are alloy framed, and a lot lighter for carry. I have a PD .45, which is alloy framed. It weighs 25 ounces, and is powerful at both ends. Kicks like a mule. Love it!!

coltrane679
September 20, 2005, 04:38 PM
CZ-52 ammo is not a problem. You can get a box (50) of S&B for $8.95 at the gun shows here, last time I looked. Not nearly as cheap as 9mm, no doubt, but not much else is in a handgun (unless you count .22LR). I'd like something other than just 9mm handguns in my life, personally (and I don't mean .22s).

Anyway, IMO it is usually a better idea (for most ammo) to buy online, in bulk. Natchez has it for $8.05 right now, hardly a budget buster.

However, as you said, I do think the Star will have the best ergonomics for most people (the Mak is kind of small for my hand). But he can pick them up at the show and see how that works for him all around.

shoobe01
September 20, 2005, 04:57 PM
Also note you can pull the [evil, silly] mag safety from the BM. I'll tell you how here:
http://star-firearms.com/info/mags.shtml

cookekdjr
September 20, 2005, 05:17 PM
The Mak is a classic. They are the most reliable semi-auto you can buy, spare parts are available (the guns are still in production, I think), the ammo is cheap, and they are very accurate. You can find CCW holsters for them online.
The Star and the CZ 52 have their merits, but neither gun is in current manufacture, and spare parts are not as commonly available. Its harder to find a holster for either gun, although you can find them.
If I were you, I'd also consider a surplus S&W Model 10 service revolver. You can find many of them in very good condition for under $200. Ammo is cheap and available everywhere, as are spare parts and holsters. They are accurate and reliable. I think they are the perfect surplus handgun.
The race is for second place, and in my view that award goes to the Mak.
Good luck at the gunshow,

David

Stauble
September 20, 2005, 05:39 PM
im not really looking for a carry gun
i want it more for plincking/home defence/i like to have many guns, though i cant afford many. the most important charecteristics in a gun to me are reliabilty and accuracy wich ever of these guns is the most reliable/accurate is the one i want (i dont think that made much sence but o well)

coltrane679 ill be at the ft.lauderdale show too if this dang storm goes away :rolleyes:

cookekdjr
September 20, 2005, 05:42 PM
im not really looking for a carry gun
i want it more for plincking/home defence/i like to have many guns, though i cant afford many. the most important charecteristics in a gun to me are reliabilty and accuracy wich ever of these guns is the most reliable/accurate is the one i want (i dont think that made much sence but o well)

Using your criteria, the S&W and the Mak are the clear winners, although the CZ-52 is pretty accurate and reliable, too.
-David

coltrane679
September 20, 2005, 07:04 PM
Hey, Stauble--I should be there Sunday late morning, near noon.

It's been a long time since I shot the Mak, so I can't say about its accuracy. The shorter barrel/sight radius has to cost you some, I'd think. The Star should be accurate if it is not shot out--it owes so much to the 1911. The main hinderance to the CZ-52 will be how you can handle the sights, just like with the old GI 1911s. That quick, flat shooting round out of a 5 inch barrel will defintely go where you aim it--I just don't know if those small iron sights will work for you or not. I've never looked into improving them myself.

As far as reliability goes, give me a bottle-necked cartridge any day. I have a SIG in 357SIG that has NEVER hiccuped in over 3500 rounds. I've put a lot less through the 52s (probably 250 each), but no problem there so far. Maks have a great reputation for reliability, too.

Check these out:

CZ 52 (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg58-e.htm)

Mak (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg21-e.htm)

Star (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg79-e.htm)

Then these:

More CZ-52 stuff (http://www.surplusrifle.com/pistolcz52/index.asp)

More Mak stuff (http://www.makarov.com/index.html)

Good luck!

PS: I'm going to selfishly mention one other gun--the Arcus 94, a Browning Hi-Power clone from Bulgaria:

Arcus 94 (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg110-e.htm)

Online dealers line AIM and Military Gun Supply use to have theses REAL cheap NIB, like $250 (plus shipping & FFL fees, of course). There is a guy at the recent shows selling them for like $330. The reason I said "selfishly mention" is because I've got one up for sale, with four mags and Pachymar Signature grips. It may be in your price range. If you weren't local I wouldn't mention it (I've only posted it on Florida Shooter's Network up to now), but it may work for you. PM me if you are interested in hearing more.

Tropical Z
September 20, 2005, 11:23 PM
Get the CZ-52.

Rogerwilco
September 21, 2005, 01:46 PM
I know this is not one of your choices, but....for the money..Bersa Thunder .380. Its new,very reliable and inexpensive. $180 around here. Just a thought.


Rog

phoglund
September 21, 2005, 02:27 PM
I own one one of each, a nice East German Mak I use for a carry piece, a grey parked CZ-52 that's a blast :D to shoot, and a Star BM that was LNIB when I bought it.

For your stated purpose I'd recommend the Star BM. It shoots a very common round that will be inexpensively available for the foreseeable future, is very accurate and is by far the most ergonomic of the three. If I could only keep one, that's the one I'd keep. If I could only shoot one any given day at the range, that's the one I'd shoot. There are also more good defensive rounds manufactured for 9mm than either of the other rounds. It would also make a great carry gun if you decide in the future to go that route. I'll start to carry the Star alternately with the Makarov as soon as I find a decent IWB holster for it. I'd guess a Commander sized leather holster would probably work well for the purpose. The only downside is the future availability of parts. It is however an all steel gun likely to send a lot of rounds downrange before any problems surface.

Good luck finding something you like. As others have posted, how the piece feels in your hand would make perhaps the best criteria for your choice. Make sure you let us know what you bought and post some pictures!!

http://wardragon.com/cruffler/starbm.htm

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