Trigger rant (and box magazines)


March 27, 2003, 07:42 PM
Since I am an english major, these things are important to me. Ok, when does a 'detatchable box magazine' become a 'clip'? do they mean the same exact thing?

I think all bolt action rifles should have detachable box magazines that are loadable from the top. MO. I hate dumping cartridges all over when unloading. Plus you could carry extra ammo with you nicely in clips.

While I'm complaining, why do so many manufacturers seem unable or unwilling to put an even decent trigger on so many of their otherwise nice firearms? Using Ruger as an example: I have witnessed-M77, MkII, 10/22, vaquero, all need trigger work IMO. It's atrocious! Do they not know that creep is bad, that excessive slack, overtravel, and pull weight are bad things for a trigger to have? Triggers are not carrying handles! I just got done spending $60 and probably 6 hours of work drilling my trigger guard and filing JB weld to get my 10/22's trigger the way it SHOULD be from the factory. And my HK usp. With the ultimate engineering, torture testing, and trial shooting, why did nobody notice the creep? These are expensive guns. Maybe I should change my username to 'Triggerpicky' whaddya think?
My Pop's Win. featherweight has the best factory trigger I've shot. And even it's a tad heavy for a light varmint rifle.

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3 gun
March 27, 2003, 08:13 PM
Magazines and clips are different things. A magazine loads a weapon, a clip loads a magazine.

As for the triggers, a good one usually requires skilled work. Lawyers and the high cost of skilled labor are my guesses as to the major reasons we get the trigger pulls we have on most new guns.

March 27, 2003, 08:20 PM
Ah, like stripper clips. If that's true a lot of people around here are misusing 'clip' and I can start correcting them. But what about half and full moon clips--they 'load a weapon'. I've never heard them called 'full moon magazines'.

March 27, 2003, 08:42 PM
"But what about half and full moon clips--they 'load a weapon'. I've never heard them called 'full moon magazines'."

I think in this case, the clips load the cylinder which acts as the magazine.

March 27, 2003, 08:44 PM
Hmmm...Yes that makes good sense;)

Jim K
March 27, 2003, 08:48 PM
There are exceptions (such as gravity fed magazines), but a general rule is that a magazine has a follower and a spring or other means of moving cartridges. A clip has neither.

Clips can be used to load magazines that are part of the rifle (Mauser, Model 1903, M1 rifle, SKS) or to load detachable magazines, on or off the rifle. In some cases, the clip becomes part of the magazine and its presence is necessary for proper feeding (M1 rifle, German Commission rifle, Mannlicher rifles).


Art Eatman
March 27, 2003, 11:49 PM
As far as factory triggers, I note that some, like the Remington 700 series, are readily adjustable to a decent level of performance. However, they come from the factory at a rather stiff pull.

For triggers like those of the ruger 77 Mk II, I just refer to them as "tort liability triggers".

Nuthin' like a litigious society to mess up our fun...


March 28, 2003, 03:16 AM
I, for one, don't mind that most triggers in rifles are bad. I have a local guy that tunes them up and almost always gets between 2-3 lb pulls and are very crisp. Charges $35 which I am more than glad to give to a local smith.

Though I doubt much savings is passed on to the consumer, I'd imagine that if Ruger/Winchester/Remington started offering a hand stoned and adjusted trigger from the factory, the cost to us would be more than $35 a pop.

March 28, 2003, 08:24 AM
If you want a detachable magazine that can be loaded from the top with a reasonable trigger that can be adjusted, the answer is the Sako Model 75.

And no, mine's not for sale.

Art Eatman
March 28, 2003, 08:38 AM
Well, I've just never cared much for the aesthetics of box magazines. And, for all practical purposes they're unnecessary*. I've carried spare ammo for decades, and only needed it once in forty years--and he wasn't that good a buck, anyway. :)


* I ain't interested in military needs. :)

March 28, 2003, 06:04 PM
In a bolt gun, there are 2 good reasons I know of for a detachable magazine, one is in the event your magazine goes bad. The problem can be solved by swapping in a spare. The other reason is that when unloading the weapon you don't have to toss bullets everywhere.

It's worth noting though that integral magazines tend to have less problems than detachable magazines.

Other than that, stripper clip loading is faster/lighter/cheaper for a military situation.

Box magazines = detachable magazines

Magazines are all united by the fact that they have springs and a follower. Yes, lots, and lots of the uneducated refer to magazines as clips, even in gun rags errrr.... gun magazines.


March 29, 2003, 06:50 AM
Another good reason for a detachable magazine is the ability to keep a rifle at hand unloaded but still have the capacity to charge it in seconds.

This is handy in circumstances where there are small children, nosy adults or where prohibited by law.

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