What can you tell me about CZ?


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jashobeam
September 22, 2005, 03:42 AM
Hey everyone, how are CZ pistols in terms of reliability, accuracy, comfort, pointability, etc?

Though I really cannot say that such a gun will fill any "need", I've been thinking lately about purchasing some type of single action, non-polymer, traditional looking automatic. I want something accurate that feels good in my hand and looks good sitting on my coffee-table. I think that CZ's have a great look, but I've never held one.

Or what about the Hi Power? Or EA Witness?

Until recently, I've been sort of blinded to anything that wasn't high-capacity and light weight. I've even been considering some type of 1911 or clone thereof. I don't know anything about these guns and would appreciate any and all insight and comments.

I currently have a Glock 17. I wouldn't mind getting another 9mm but I also wouldn't mind a .40 or .45. What do you think?

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SwampWolf
September 22, 2005, 04:17 AM
Great looks, great ergonomics, lousy triggers . My advice is to try one (or several) out, including shooting one before spending your money.

Stainz
September 22, 2005, 07:40 AM
Some years ago, my wife tried a bunch of semi's in 9mm - settled on the CZ-75. It was great - ate el-cheapo Blazers perfectly, as it did everything else we tried. It never had a misfeed - or ftf. I would say it was the best semi I ever owned - better than my ho-hum boring G21 of years ago. It came with a hi-cap mag - and I bought a pair of American made hi-cap's from a mail order site for $38 that worked flawlessly. The fellow we sold it to a year and a half back shoots it all of the time - and still rates it as the best he has.

Of course, I am jaded... I have three rimfire CZ rifles - and they are definite keepers. The CZ-97, the enlarged .45 ACP version of the CZ-75, in my pusher's case is nice... if I buy another semi, I'll consider it first.

Stainz

jdkelly
September 22, 2005, 08:19 AM
One of the first things you will hear about CZ handguns is that they are a very good value for the price, and they are! They are pretty accurate and point very nicely.

Some seem to have extraction problems but I think that has been addressed. I like my CZ-75Bs very much even though I've broken two slide stops on my 9mm and have found it difficult to find good adjustable sights to replace the factory sights.

I think you will be happy with a CZ, most people are.

http://www.czforum.com/


Respectfully,

jkelly

kahr404life
September 22, 2005, 08:52 AM
The CZ-75 is a very nice handgun. Mine is accurate and very reliable. The only thing I did not like about it was the magazines not dropping free. I contacted CZ who advised me to take the grip off and straighten the magazine retention piece (forgot part name) in the mag well. I did and it works the mags drop free. I also own one of their nifty 22lr rifles and if I miss the target its not the rifles fault. I think CZ is a class company with very good products.

Shear_stress
September 22, 2005, 09:01 AM
I have two CZ pistols, a P-01 and a recently purchased CZ85 Combat. While I can't speak for the entire product line, the guns I have are superb. They fit my hand perfectly, point well, and are very, very accurate. My CZ85 has digested 500 rounds of WWB without a single problem, while my older P-01 has experienced possibly two FTEs over a couple thousand rounds of WWB and Sellier&Bellot, all with a minimum of cleaning or maintenance. As you can tell, I am a big fan of CZs.

The only wrinkle has been the triggers. Out of the box, they are not great. However, they improve substantially with use. My P-01 now has a very, very smooth and light pull. My CZ-85 is getting there. . .

gvass
September 22, 2005, 09:14 AM
Isn't it a revolver forum?

BTW: CZ once made revolvers, too.

.38 Special and .22 LR Colt-style double action revolvers, and a world-class .38 Special single action target revolver,too.

pauli
September 22, 2005, 11:18 AM
new cz revolvers would rule.

Mulliga
September 22, 2005, 11:23 AM
They've acquired Dan Wesson. Currently I only see the DW 1911s on their site, but that may change.

CZ pistols are quite good, too. :cool:

R.H. Lee
September 22, 2005, 11:25 AM
My CZ75B is dead on accurate and reliable. The only mods I've made have been to remove the magazine brake and add skateboard tape to the front and backstraps.

cookekdjr
September 22, 2005, 11:35 AM
CZ is one of the best arms manufacturers in the world.
-David

Lone Star
September 22, 2005, 01:26 PM
jdkelly--

Will you please elaborate on your broken slide stops? How many rounds went through the gun, under what conditions, before one broke?

One sees posts like this, and it sometimes develops that the shooter is into action style matches and shoots a thousand or more rounds a week. Simply saying that a slide stop broke can alarm the man wanting a gun for real world use, when it might prove quite durable, given normal amounts of firing.

I am very satisfied with my PolyKote 75B, and plan to to get the new stainless one, too, once we see feedback enough to know if they have metallurgy or heat treat problems with stainless steel, which is new at CZ.

Thanks,

Lone Star

Stainz
September 22, 2005, 05:02 PM
I suppose that the slide stop is also the dissassembly pin. Mine had many, many thousands of Blazer 9mm's through it when my wife tired of it (She now shoots my wimpy .357M's from a 3" 65... a proper revolver!). The fellow who bought it had his break while dissassembling it (His general luck is horrible... I'd never be near him in a thunderstorm!). They charged him for the piece - he called back after finding out on a forum that they had some bad units... they sent him another one, so now he has a spare. He isn't soured in any way - and loves the CZ. He does gripe about the aftermarket hi-cap mags' springs wearing, however. If I ever go towards the dark side again, I'll get another CZ pistol. Not likely, of course, given my affinity for proper 'round guns'.

Stainz

armoredman
September 22, 2005, 05:39 PM
Well, I bet my life on a CZ 75 PO1 every day, and my wife bets hers on a CZ 2075 RAMI 9mm. There are no handguns in this house that don't say CZ on them....we might be said to have a slight affinity towards the CZ brand name.... :D
I will state, as you asked, EAA Witness pistols, made by Tanfolgio of Italy, is a very good pistol, as well, as I have had 6 of them in the past, and only money issues forced me to sell any of them....dagnabbit. :banghead:
I reccomend trying the CZ PO1, the PCR, (both alloy frames, since you like lightweight), and the CZ40P, the PO1 frame with the CZ40 slide, a semi-compact lightweight 40SW, at J&G Sales for $299.99...for grins.

Ash
September 22, 2005, 10:12 PM
I have 3 CZ-75's and a CZ-85 Compact. I recommend all of them.

Ash

varoadking
September 22, 2005, 10:18 PM
CZ's are perhaps the most accurate bricks ever...as accurate as most any higher priced fine handgun...

PCRCCW
September 22, 2005, 10:46 PM
Well Ive had 24+ CZ's. I wouldnt say they ALL have crappy triggers and break slide stops. They are great in the hand, accurate, well made, reliable and so on. Look at them seriously..........
Shoot well.

jdkelly
September 23, 2005, 09:00 AM
jdkelly
Will you please elaborate on your broken slide stops? How many rounds went through the gun, under what conditions, before one broke?--- Lone Star


My CZ 75B has been my third or fourth most used semi-auto hand gun (by round count) over the last five years and is the only one to break the slide stop.

This is from memory so please don't hold me to exact round counts. The first slide stop broke at about 7,000 rounds (a good guess) the second at less then 5,000 rounds. When the second slide stop broke CZ-USA (not Mike) said that slide stops were warranted for only 3,000 rounds. I bought two at that time ($35.00 ea I think) so I would not have to wait several weeks when the third slide stop breaks, as I had to when the first slide stop broke.

Much of the ammo used before the first was mil surplus (hot) with a good dose of WWB. Almost all of the ammo used between the first and second slide stop breaks was soft gammer loads (yeah I reload 9mm).

I had been using a heavier recoil spring (around 18 lbs) when the second slide stop broke. But I believe that I had a factory spring when the first slide stop broke. I think Walt Sherill thought this might have been the problem.

Again, this is from memory and could be wrong. The only thing I can accurately tell you is that I've broken two slide stops in a moderately used gun and that I haven't shot it much since. I still like the CZs I own, and will used them again, I've just moved in another direction.

I had a post over in the CZ Forum with slightly more accurate information at the time I was having problems but could not find it this morning, sorry.



Respectfully,

jdkelly

Ash
September 23, 2005, 10:00 AM
I have never broken a slide stop, personally, and one of my CZ-75's is 18 years old, now. My newest 75 is 9 years old, a "B" model, and it is still purring along.

Ash

GunGoBoom
September 23, 2005, 10:30 AM
CZ pistols - the best there is, in my book. Hi-powers are awesome too.

Northslope Nimrod
September 23, 2005, 11:43 AM
Love my CZ RAMI and I desperately want a CZ PCR or P-01. Very comfortable to hold & shoot.
Best handguns: Browning Hi-Power, 1911 (browning design), CZ (inspired by Browning).

Gary G23
September 23, 2005, 11:48 AM
I was in a gunshop in January and spotted a new CZ-75B SA 9mm at a reasonable price. I looked it over and ended up taking it home with me. I have since bought three more CZ pistols and have to switched to CZ's for all my IDPA competition this year, including three major matches. I'm impressed.

jashobeam
November 16, 2005, 03:49 PM
How is the trigger on the 97B--the single action trigger pull, I mean? I'm not really concerned with the double action pull, although ofcourse it'd be nice if that were smooth too.

I think the 97 has a great look. I've held one recently. It felt pretty good, but the trigger might be a little far out there. I'll have to go hold it again.

Obviously, since I don't reload, the 75B SA will be more economical to shoot.

I just want an accurate autoloader. I do decently well with my Glock 17, but, as stated originally, I would like to get something more traditional that can be fired single action.

Werewolf
November 16, 2005, 04:01 PM
Obviously, since I don't reload, the 75B SA will be more economical to shootUmmmm... I'm curious why you think that?

I've got a 75B SA in .40S&W - very accurate and is my IPSC gun.

Plastic Trigger froze up at around 1000 rounds - never did figure out why. Replaced it with steel trigger.

I've also got 75B in 9mm. Not as accurate as the .40 for some reason but my wife mainly uses it and I can still keep 'em all in the 10 ring at 10 yards so it's accurate enough.

I like my CZ's (I've also got a CZ-550 American Rifle). Accurate, easy to maintain firearms and with the exception of the SA have been very reliable.

Mucho bang for the buck.

MachIVshooter
November 16, 2005, 04:33 PM
Best handguns: Browning Hi-Power, 1911 (browning design), CZ (inspired by Browning).

IMO, the CZ-75 is somewhat of an improved, TDA version of the Hi-power. Ergonomics and overall appearance are very similar, and both use linkless barrels. But I personally believe the lockwork of the CZ to be superior, and I also like the inverted slide rails.

BTW, you should add the Beretta 92 to your list;)

I don't own an actual CZ, but I own a Baby Eagle 9mm and a Witness 10mm and both are superb firearms. I prefer the Baby Eagle to a real CZ for a variety of reasons, non of which is quality. The advantage the Witness' have going is that they offer the CZ-75 platform in a host of chamberings from .22 LR to .45 ACP. Currently, the Witness is the only CZ-style pistol in 10mm. Both the Witness and Baby Eagle are made by Tanfoglio, though IMI adds their own touch to the Baby.

Be it a CZ or Tanfoglio/Baby Eagle, you'll be pleased. And you won't have to spend a fortune (between $300 and $500 will get you just about any of them, excluding semi-custom or competition models).

Walt Sherrill
November 16, 2005, 04:40 PM
The CZ looks like a Browning Hi-Power, but it is NOTHING like the BHP internally. Absolutely different mechanisms. The appearance similarities are deceiving.

I've had a bunch, and still have several. I like'em. Like the BHP and Glock 34, too.

Northslope Nimrod
November 16, 2005, 04:40 PM
Love my CZ RAMI. I also love my Browning Hi-Power. I would agree that CZ is the best value out there.....(unless you're into Mil-surplus....then Makarov's are quite the value as well).
If I buy another 9mm.....it will be a CZ....no question. The CZ PCR or P-01 to be specific.

ArmedBear
November 16, 2005, 05:37 PM
CZ's are great.

I like the triggers for their intended purpose. They tend to be smooth, they work well, don't go off when unintended, and are easy to shoot small groups with, or shoot rapid fire with the whole magazine hitting center mass at 10 yards in my experience.

WRT surplus deals, pointability, etc., a late-date Walther P1 is a helluva gun for the money. Parkerizing-like finish on the steel, REALLY pointable, accurate, reliable. The only downside? 8-round magazines. Shoots regular old cheap 9mm, though, not 9x18 like the Mak. Otherwise, the Mak is a great little gun for cheap.

Kestrel
November 16, 2005, 05:59 PM
Is there any rhyme or reason to the slide stops breaking on the CZs? Has it been noted to be a certain serial number range or time-frame of manufacture?

I have a couple of the CZ-75 Military ('96) models and wonder if they will have that problem. Are the current productions slide stops any better?

Actually, I just remembered as I was typing. I was speaking to Mike at CZ one day and he said (with a sigh), "Yeah, the CZs still break slide stops..."

Thanks.

Walt Sherrill
November 16, 2005, 06:41 PM
In the one case I'm familiar with, the CZ in question broke several slide stops in a very short period. CZ replaced the gun without explanation. Several of us believe that the slide stop openings in the frame were slightly out of spec, such that the barrel slamming against the slide stop when the slide closes, put very concentrated pressure against too narrow an area on the stop.

(That's where the slide stop gets the force -- on the slide's return forward.)

I think other folks jack up the recoil spring weight in hopes of lowering frame battering when shooting hot ammo, and the slide slams forward so harshly, it's harder on the slide stop. (The best solution might be to raise the recoil spring weight a little, and the hammer spring a little, so that the force of the slide going forward isn't as heavy.)

jashobeam
November 17, 2005, 04:40 AM
Quote:
Obviously, since I don't reload, the 75B SA will be more economical to shoot

Ummmm... I'm curious why you think that?
I haven't gone back to read my post, but my intended meaning was that the 75B would be more economical to shoot than the 97B because 9mm ammo is less expensive than .45. Am I mistaken?

I just want a very accurate pistol for as little money as possible. I figured the SA version of the 75B would be more accurate than the SA/DA versions because it has a Single Action only trigger. Is this not necessarily true?

The most accurate autoloader I've ever fired is the HK P7M(whatever #).

Walt Sherrill
November 17, 2005, 08:20 AM
No. The SA version of the 75B is not more accurate. Except for the triggers (shaped differently) and a lack of a disconnector in the SA model, the guns are identical internally. (The slides are slightly different, but there's no indication that THAT DIFFERENCE has anything to do with accuracy, as both have the same barrel and lockup mechanism.)

The SA version may be a little easier to shoot accurately, but it is not innately more accurate.

A good trigger job on the DA/SA version will give you the same practical accuracy, and it gives you the option of shooting in more than one division in the various gun games. There are a few gunsmiths who are good with CZs: Mike Eagleshield at CZ-USA and Jim Miossi at Miossi Gun Works immediately come to mind; these guys know CZs.

The only real advantage of the CZ-75B in SA of the DA/SA model, and it can be an advantage, is that the SA version can use an optional trigger that is adjustable for both take up and overtravel. That can be helpful if you're an above-average shooter, shooting competitively, and need to go fast.

You can modify the DA/SA trigger (or get another that adjusts for overtravel) to do some of that. The 85 Combat comes so equipped. You can also remove the disconnector and fit the optional SA trigger in the DA/SA gun and end up with almost the same gun.

Not all SA triggers seem better out of the box; most feel better. But that may really be as much the luck of the draw than anything -- as some DA/SA guns are quite good, and some are kinda grungy... Most "clean up" with use.

Werewolf
November 17, 2005, 10:36 AM
No. The SA version of the 75B is not more accurateMy 75B SA in .40S&W is way more accurate than my 75B 9mm. Don't know why but I shoot way better with it - way better. And that's shooting both in SA mode. Except for the triggers (shaped differently) and a lack of a disconnector in the SA model, the guns are identical internally. (The slides are slightly different, but there's no indication that THAT DIFFERENCE has anything to do with accuracy, as both have the same barrel and lockup mechanism.) The SA has a full length metal guide rod; the standard 75B does not. In addition in the SA model the magazines drop free. They don't do that in the standard 75B version without some modifications.

The SA version may be a little easier to shoot accurately, but it is not innately more accurate. After the first shot they're identical and if like me you keep the pistol cocked and locked their identical even with the first shot. FWIW - I'm not a huge fan of DA semi-auto pistols especially on the CZ which has a very long pull.

There are a few gunsmiths who are good with CZs: Mike Eagleshield at CZ-USA and Jim Miossi at Miossi Gun Works immediately come to mind; these guys know CZs. Could you post contact info for Jim or PM me.

Not all SA triggers seem better out of the box; most feel better. But that may really be as much the luck of the draw than anything -- as some DA/SA guns are quite good, and some are kinda grungy... Most "clean up" with use. ON the two 75B SA's I've had experience with both feel a bit mushy compared to the standard 75B DA/SA trigger. In SA mode the SA/DA CZ trigger is actually a bit crisper in my experience but that's limited to owning one SA/DA and one SA and firing another guys SA on a number of occasions.

The CZ-75B is a fine weapon that I'd highly recommend to anyone but its trigger isn't one of it's best features (which is strange considering the very high quality of CZ Rifle triggers).

Walt Sherrill
November 17, 2005, 05:03 PM
Jim Miossi's website, with contact info, is

http://miossigunworks.com

The 75B SA in 9mm does not have the full-length guide rod. The slide is different than the DA/SA version, however -- with longer rails on the slide.

Only the .40 version has the FLGR -- and that's true for the DA/SA version, as well.

I got my 75B DA/SA in .40 used, but used lightly, without gunsmith work. The trigger is very good; just a little creep (that should eventually "wear out,") and no camming/lifting when shooting in SA mode.

(I have a 75B SA/DA in .40, and 9mm 75B SA, plus an 85 Combat, and a 75 Compact, and several clones... I've had a bunch of others, too, including a 75B Military, 97B, and 40B, several pre-Bs and several 85 Combats. All of them fine guns.)

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