[sumpnz]

This weekend I'll finally be going on my first scouting trip ahead of elk season. I drew a tag for anterless elk in Unit 9 for the early (mid-October) hunt. For those not familiar with AZ hunt units, that one is N-NW of Flagstaff and includes the South Rim of the Grand Canyon at the norther end of the unit. The area we'll be scouting this weekend is the Coconino Rim - east of the Grand Canyon Village - in the Kaibab National Forrest.

Luckilly there is no overlap with any other hunting seasons at that time (well, except for bighorn sheep - but there's all of 1 tag for that unit and season). The unit is 1600 sq. mi. and there's only 400 tags for that hunt, so there shouldn't be too much trouble with other hunters getting in our way or us getting in their way.

Any particularly helpful hints for what to look for? Obviously tracks, scat, beds, water, and clearings with grass will be high on the list.

[~z]

Quit smoking and wear good boots
~z

[Vern Humphrey]

Tracks are important -- as are droppings. They tell you where the elk have been, and will likely be again.

When you have time, I find the best thing is to scout as I hunt -- moving slowly and glassing continuously. Camp outside your hunting area so you don't drive them away.

Once you have found tracks and droppings, try to find a place overlooking that area and spend the day there glassing and noting when the elk arrive, from which direction, and how they leave.

[Sunray]

"...The unit is 1600 sq. mi..." A guide.

[killzone]

I now a few people that hunted in that area. There are good size Elk out there. I hope it turns out Ok for you,,,

[sumpnz]

Quit smoking and wear good bootsNever started and have a pair that survived a 3 day hike through the Grand Canyon.

"...The unit is 1600 sq. mi..." A guide.NOt affordable. Besides, once you cut out Grand Canyon Nat. Park, and the areas the elk never go, it ain't that bad. I just got back from the scouting trip and we could hear elk bugeling within a couple hundred yards of where we were glassing. Couldn't see him, though, becuase of the thick trees.

Tracks are important -- as are droppings. They tell you where the elk have been, and will likely be again. Found plenty of those, along with obvious beds. Several fresh enough to have been used within the last day or two.
I now a few people that hunted in that area. There are good size Elk out there. I hope it turns out Ok for you,,, Thanks! Season opens Oct 14. We're planning to head out on the 12th and scout again all day on the 13th. Unfortunatly work and family stuff keeps my partner and I from scouting any more than that.

[Bottom Gun]

Sumpnz,

My advice:
Find water and grass. They won't be far away. Walk and listen. They will still be bugling during the early hunt. Chase the bugles because the cows won't be far away. Wear camo washed in detergeant without UV brighteners. They are like deer and can see UV. Clothing washed in regular detergeant glows like white under a black light to their eyes.

Take a good cow call like a Hoochie Mama and use it when you move about. If you do it properly, the elk will hear you but think you are a cow coming toward them. It will allow you to get closer to them. It will sometimes also stop elk long enough for you to shoot if you squeeze it as they are moving past you.

Take a bugle call along if you want to have some fun playing with the bulls after dusk. Last year, Pamm and I called a nice one up within 10 ft before he discovered us. We could smell him and we heard every breath he took. It was damned exciting.

Take a GOOD 8X binocular and USE it. Don't walk more then 20 yd without looking ahead with it. You'll be glad you did.

Be sure to have a good compass and GPS. That country all looks the same in some areas and landmarks disappear at night. It will save you from "taking the long way back" as we say.

I don't know what elk experience you have but if you take a shot and the animal doesn't instantly drop, make absolutely sure you missed before you shoot another animal. They are incredibly tough animals and can soak up an amazing amount of lead without showing any sign of being hit.
A .308 or .30-06 will kill them but may or may not drop them in their tracks. I've seen them take several good hits from a 7MM Mag without going down. I've also had them run almost 100 yd after punching through their lungs with my .338 but that rifle usually drops them where they stand.

Pamm (my lady) and I will also be hunting the early cow hunt (Oct 14-20) but our tags are in 5BS.

Good luck on your hunt, Sir. Be sure to take warm clothing and rain gear. Temperatures are normally in the 20's at night and there is often an early blizzard during that hunt.

Hunt safely and shoot well.

Ken

[sumpnz]

Wear camo washed in detergeant without UV brighteners. Didn't think of that. I'll have to look for that detergent at Sportsman's Warehouse.Take a good cow call like a Hoochie Mama and use it when you move about. If you do it properly, the elk will hear you but think you are a cow coming toward them. It will allow you to get closer to them. It will sometimes also stop elk long enough for you to shoot if you squeeze it as they are moving past you. Good idea. I didn't know there were cow elk calls available. Another item to look for at SW.
Take a GOOD 8X binocular and USE it. Don't walk more then 20 yd without looking ahead with it. You'll be glad you did. I've got Steiner 9x40's. I did that all the time while scouting.
Be sure to have a good compass and GPS. That country all looks the same in some areas and landmarks disappear at night. It will save you from "taking the long way back" as we say. Done.
I don't know what elk experience you have This is my first time elk hunting. Last year was my first time deer hunting. What can I say, dad wasn't even remotely into hunting and wouldn't let me have so much as a BB gun growing up.
if you take a shot and the animal doesn't instantly drop, make absolutely sure you missed before you shoot another animal. They are incredibly tough animals and can soak up an amazing amount of lead without showing any sign of being hit. I've gathered as much. I'm planning on taking at least one follow up shot, so long as she doesn't bolt before I have the chance.
Good luck on your hunt, Sir. Be sure to take warm clothing and rain gear. Temperatures are normally in the 20's at night and there is often an early blizzard during that hunt. Go it covered.
Hunt safely and shoot well. That's the plan.

Good luck on your hunt too. Be sure to post an after action report.

[Bottom Gun]

Will do. Hopefully we'll have some good pics to post as well.

Look for the Hoochie Mamma cow call. It's a squeeze call so there's no talent required. If you can play a bicycle horn, you can use this call. It's one of the better calls and it sounds just like a cow.

Did I mention a bone saw? Take it if you have one. It will make things a lot easier.

What's your plan after you knock one down? Are you going to quarter it or take it out whole? It's very important to get the hide off as soon as you can. The hide is so thick and insulates so well, the meat will spoil rapidly with the hide on.

You also need to think about how you are going to hang it since you'll most likely hang it at least overnight.

Also, I would not leave an animal hanging unattended. At least one gentleman had his animal stolen from the hanging tree in our unit last year and I heard of two other guys who scared away thieves trying to steal elk from their camp.

I saw lots of unsportsmanlike conduct in our unit last year including shooting from pickups, spot lighting, etc. I spoke to the fish cops about it last year but they weren't real interested in hearing about it. The response was "Call us when you see it happening".
It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is so you need to act accordingly.
Hopefully, we'll see less of that stuff this year.l

[sumpnz]

Did I mention a bone saw? Take it if you have one. It will make things a lot easier. That's also on the list of things to buy. However, my hunting partner and his dad (who will be camp cook) each have one, so I may just use their's.
What's your plan after you knock one down? Are you going to quarter it or take it out whole? It's very important to get the hide off as soon as you can. The hide is so thick and insulates so well, the meat will spoil rapidly with the hide on. Depends on where it goes down. If we;re lucky and a truck can get into the kill sight reasonably easily we'll gut it and then load it in the truck and drive it camp to skin and butcher. If not, it'll get skined and quartered at the kill sight and humped out to camp or to a spot where we can get the truck in. Then it'll get butchered at the camp sight. Either way we don't really plan on hanging it overnight unless the kill is made at dusk.
Also, I would not leave an animal hanging unattended. At least one gentleman had his animal stolen from the hanging tree in our unit last year and I heard of two other guys who scared away thieves trying to steal elk from their camp. Hopefully that won't happen, but I'll keep it in mind. Most of the trees in the area we'll be camping have pretty high branches for their first level. I suppose we could hoist it out of easy reach if needbe.

[Lennyjoe]

One last thing, call me when I can come and pick up my steaks. ;)

Good luck and enjoy the hunt. I'm up to 2 bonus points so far. Maybe next year I'll get drawn. :(

[sumpnz]

Lenny - If I get one, I'll try to remember to bring some jerky to the shoot in Yuma on Nov 5.

[Lennyjoe]

Groovy! :D

[rick_reno]

Get some topo maps before you go, you can narrow down your scouting trip by looking at them at home and then only going to "good" spots. Find water, you'll probably find elk. They gotta drink.

[bailer]

I just got back from an archery hunt in 7. Didn't get a shot, but had several good opportunities to get close. This was a strange year. There is grass and water virtually everywhere. The elk aren't moving as much as they usually do. Rather than move out into the big meadows to feed at night, they're staying in small pockets of grass in the heavy cover. They are just now starting to bugle a little bit. If I were scouting this weekend, I'd drive around the FS roads at night with the windows down. Every mile or two stop for 20 minutes and listen. Make notes of the areas that you heard elk and check them out in daylight.

[sumpnz]

rick_reno - Way ahead of you. Actually we picked the spot becuase last year while scouting for deer my hunting partner saw tons of elk in that area. Then he found the topos his dad has for the area and we used those to narrow down alternate locations.

[JohnDog]

Sumpnz,

We hunted deer in 9 last year, during the first week of November. Saw two of the biggest bull elk I have ever seen. They were just feeding through an area I was still hunting in - totally unconcerned. I had to yell at one and wave my arms just to keep him from walking up to me. I saw a lot of cows also.

We camped to the east of the main road up to Tusayan, north of Red Butte. We actually saw more elk there than up by the border of the park. Despite what the sign says at the entrance you can take firearms into the park. Check at gate with a ranger as this might have changed from last year. We took the bolts out of our rifles and kept them in locked cases in the trunk (per ranger instructions). The main road that goes east from the village has access roads into the forest, although you can link through from Tusayan, it is much faster to go on the paved highway.

Get a forest service map for the Kaibab, and look for the little blue "tank" symbols. They designate little resevoirs that Game and Fish have built to hold water for the animals. A quick check around them can show how many animals are in the area, and if they are using the "tank" for water.

Camper services at the village have pay showers - good if you're getting a bit "gamey". And Tusayan has fast food and restaurants! We were cruising thru after hunting trying to figure out what dinner we would cook in the dark when my hunting partner and I spied the Pizza Hut sign!! A campfire, cold beer and a pizza after a full day of hunting - it don't get much better than that!

Hope this helps - JohnDog

[Bwana John]

look for the little blue "tank" symbols, they designate little resevoirs that Game and Fish have built to hold water for the animals
Most of the "tanks" are built for cattle ranching.

Try to find a "trick tank" (or guzzler), that is the kind built for wildlife, and will contain water much longer. Hell, most of the trick tanks around here even have blinds and salt blocks on them.

[sumpnz]

We camped to the east of the main road up to Tusayan, north of Red Butte. We actually saw more elk there than up by the border of the park. Despite what the sign says at the entrance you can take firearms into the park. Check at gate with a ranger as this might have changed from last year. We took the bolts out of our rifles and kept them in locked cases in the trunk (per ranger instructions). The main road that goes east from the village has access roads into the forest, although you can link through from Tusayan, it is much faster to go on the paved highway. That's almost exactly where we were scouting. We've picked out a great camping spot that should mean not much more than a 1/2 mile hike to where we'd like to hunt. There is a road just at the south end of Tusayan that will get us into the area without have to go through the gate to the park. It'll be a little slower but then we won't have to worry about the guns or getting charged for the access.

Camper services at the village have pay showers - good if you're getting a bit "gamey". The way the weather's been I may just plan on bathing at the camp in mid-afternoon. Warm the water up on the camp fire real good and it should be tolerable. 'Course if we tag out soon enough that may not even be necessary.

[bearmgc]

It doesn't hurt to use some spray on scent cover. Its worked for me. Another thing, don't stop hunting midday as satellight bulls often move. Look for mountain ledges or terraces that face the wind, preferably at the edge of wood plots. They will sit up there cooling themselves off. Don't ignore even the smallest pine stand on the downward slope of mountains...you'd be surprised what sits in there. Good luck. ;)

[Bottom Gun]

That's right. These elk are on the move all day long.
Stay out all day. Don't waste time going back to camp at midday.
I shot one a couple of years ago when it walked by as I was eating my lunch.

[sumpnz]

Another thing, don't stop hunting midday as satellight bulls often move. I've got a cow tag, but point taken. Last year when deer hunting I got my only shot off around 11AM. Was so excited I pulled it and missed at only about 40 yards.

I've always worked on the assumption that you're wasteing valuable hunting time if you don't need a flashlight when leaving and returning to camp.

[Bottom Gun]

We have cow tags too. There isn't much difference. The cows are just as active as the bulls all day long.

Two years ago when I didn't have a tag, I went out anyway just before the season opened and I spent three weeks in the brush with my video camera. I shot film from sunup to sundown and got some fantastic footage of elk doing their thing.
I was surprised to discover the elk were so active during the day. I had never paid as close attention to them in the past because I was always huntiung rather than simply observing. I found they were most active at dusk when they came in to graze, but they also came to water all day long. They were just as active in the late morning and all afternoon as they were in early morning.

They are creatures of habit and they do follow the same trails. I also noticed that they always swim across water in the same places not only day after day, but they use the same crossing year after year. I've been hunting an area for six years and have noticed the elk use the same trails and water crossings every year.

If you do find a well used trail, stay on it because sooner or later an elk will trot down it.

My two cents. . . . . . . . .

[sumpnz]

Well, I've done my final sight in, and then some target practice from unsupported positions with the target at 100 yards. Suffice to say, standing and shooting offhand will not be happening at 100 yards while an elk is in the scope. However, I did pretty well at sitting and kneeling. Kept 6 out of 10 shots within 4" of POA, and the other 4 were still within 6-6.5" of POA. Not ideal, but good enough. Especially since where I'll be at I doubt I'll even have a chance at a shot much over 100 yards anyway. If I do, all I need is a tree branch for a rest.

[Vern Humphrey]

I have a little game I play with my M82 Kimber in .22 LR. I take a standard 11-bull, 50 foot NRA target and put five or ten rounds into each bull, shooting from the standing, unsupported position at 50 feet, and working the bolt from the shoulder. The rifle doesn't leave my shoulder until the magazine is empty.

After a while, I try to keep everything in the 8 ring and speed up my shooting -- I don't really hurry, I just shoot when it looks good and cut out wasted motion. Do this four or five times a week for a month or two and see what it does for your high power skills.

Note: The trick to shooting offhand is to hold the rifle at the balance, NOT out on the forearm, and get the left or supporting forearm vertical.

[sumpnz]

Yeah, I need a good .22lr bolt gun. The one I have now is a semi-auto. Great for plinking and bunnies, but not what is really needed to sharpen marksmanship skills WRT hunting. Trust me, it's been on my list of things to buy for quite a while. Since I shoot a CZ 550, I've really been thinking that one of these (http://cz-usa.com/01.detail.php?id=67) or possibly one of these (http://cz-usa.com/01.detail.php?id=1). Maybe I'll get the 453 for myself and the 452 for my wife since they're now available in LH actions.

[sumpnz]

One more sleep and we're heading out! Supposed to meet up around 4PM tomorrow and hit the road by 5-5:30. Should put us in camp by 10ish. Weather is looking kinda warm, mid-high 60's in the daytime, low-mid 30's overnight. Possible rain, but not looking too likely that it'll be wet at least before Sunday.

Never got the chance to get the Hoocie Momma call. Next year.

With any luck, by Friday evening we'll be heading back home with a couple quartered elk in coolers.

[Lennyjoe]

Good luck and enjoy the hunt. Pictures are a must! :D

[sumpnz]

Just got home a few hours ago. Got a HUGE cow elk last night, and my hunting partner got a yearling male (still no horns) just a few minutes after. Story tomorrow when I'm not totally exhausted (gutting, dragging, skinning, quartering took until 0130 that night. and then today was spent driving home and then carving up the beast). Lots of fun, lots of work, but worth every bit.

[sumpnz]

OK, here's the story of the hunt.

We got drawn for Unit 9, which is N-NW of Flagstaff, and the Grand Canyon National Park takes up the northern boundary of the unit. We chose to hunt in the Kaibab National Forest area east of the town of Tusayan (that is just south of the Grand Canyon Village). We camped and hunted right along the Coconino Rim. Our tags were for antlerless elk, which means either females or yearlings of either sex.

The group consisted of myself, a co-worker (Rustin), his dad (Don), and his younger brother (CJ). Only myself and Rustin had tags. Don was camp cook, and CJ was along for the ride.

We headed out of Mesa after work on Wednesday. Had a spot of trouble on the way up the hill towards Flagstaff. Don's truck started smoking something awful. Not sure why but we suspected a blown head gasket. No real chance to get it fixed, so we limped along going as slow as we needed to to minimize the damage. Got to Verde Valley OK, but had to add about a quart of oil. Added another quart in Flagstaff. It was slow going but we made it the campsite OK though about an hour later than we otherwise would have. While driving on the FS road we got the spotlight out and ready in case we saw any wildlife. Saw a few deer and couple elk. Then, a couple miles from the camp site a huge herd of elk, at least 20 cows with a monster bull ran across the road. It was very impressive and we were able to watch them with the aid of the spotlight until they disappeared deep into the trees.

Next morning we woke up and headed out to scout the area a second time. Took out .22's in case we saw squirrels or rabbits. CJ shot a nice young squirrel that morning. Other than that we mostly confirmed what we'd discovered the previous scouting trip that morning. That afternoon we drove around and found a really promising area near a cattle watering tank (for those of you not familiar, a tank is more like a man-made pond than anything else). CJ and Don shot another couple squirrels while were out scouting that tank. We wound up eating those squirrels in a yummy stew the next night.

We got to bed pretty early Thursday night, and had the alarm set for 0420. Got up in the morning, ate a quick breakfast, and hiked out to the rim. We found a good spot to sit and glass. Once the sun came up we worked the binos for a good hour. Saw 3 bulls, two of which were pretty big with large racks (at least 5x5) but it was hard to tell as they were at least 1000 yards out. We heard a bull bugeling so Rustin decided to head in that direction (at least to the next ridge), but it was such a long way off I figured I'd stay and keep glassing since I had a good view of a game trail. After another hour or so I decided to head over where Rustin had gone and eventually met up with him. He had tried to get to some elk he'd heard but not had any luck. We decided to hike/still hunt back to camp in different directions.

Once back at camp, Rustin told of some very fresh elk tracks that crossed the road heading south (away from the rim) just a half mile from camp. Once we'd eaten a bit and refilled our water we headed out again to follow those tracks. It was tough going since in a number of areas the trail disappeared and we had to look around to find it again. Eventually it lead us to a tank that looked really promising (not the same tank we'd seen the afternoon before). After walking around the tank we picked a spot that overlooked the game trail that had led us there and a fence line. This was about 2:30PM. We decided to wait until about 4:30-5PM so that we could hike back to camp before it got too dark and cold.

Around 4:40, when Rustin was almost ready say we should start walking back to camp, I heard them. Got my binos on the fence line and there they were. A small-medium sized herd of cows. I shifted my position so that was looking straight up the fence line, took the covers off the scope on my rifle and jacked a round in the chamber. I saw a cow coming down the hill walking right next to the fence. She paused and gave me a nice quartering posture. I started to squeeze the trigger when she shifted to directly head on. I let off the trigger and waited. I was in a sitting position with the rifle pretty steady, so while she was directly facing me I went ahead and activated the set trigger on my CZ 550. A few moments later she turned again giving me a quartering towards angle on her left side. I made sure the cross-hairs were on her near side shoulder and squeezed. BOOM.

She leapt to my left into some trees. Rustin confirmed that it was a solid hit, though neither of us could see where she went because of the vegetation. He took off after the rest of the herd that bolted as soon as I shot. After a few minutes I headed towards the fence line. Walking a soft and quietly as I could I scanned the area with my rifle at the ready in case she got up and bolted. Once I got to where I though she'd been when I fired I started looking for blood. I walked all the way to the crest of the hill and couldn't find a single drop. But I knew I'd hit her and not in the gut. As I walked back down the hill I started looking really closely for blood and for tracks left when the herd bolted. I followed each trail for 40-50 yards and when I didn't see anything I went back to the fence line and went to the next trail all the while scouring for blood. About the third or fourth trail I followed I saw what I had initially thought was a rock the first time I'd passed it. It was her, plied up. I watched her through the scope for a moment and then slowly approached her. I kept the rifle on her and as I got within 15 or so yards I stopped and watched for a moment. No sign of breathing. So I carefully approached her and circled to her back and then touched the muzzle of my rifle to her eye ball. No reaction, so I did it again. Still no reaction. Big sigh of relief from me, and I unloaded the rifle.

Even where she laid I could not find a single drop of blood. I couldn't even find the entrance wound. Turns out I'd hit her in the shoulder and the bullet had gone through the upper lungs and shattered a rib on the off side. However the bullet remained in the chest cavity. When we gutted her there must have been a good couple gallons of blood pooled in her chest.

A few minutes after I found the old gal I heard Rustin fire a shot. About ten minutes later he came back to where I was and told me he'd shot a yearling that we think was the calf of the cow I had just shot. He had been bleating for his momma, and that was what led Rustin to him. As it turned out, Rustin had gotten him with a raking shot that went in through the gut, but also hit the liver and the lungs.

After Rustin got back to where I was we radioed to Don so he could help us with gutting and dragging. Given the time he also had to bring a lantern so we could see what we were doing.

To make a long story a little shorter, by the time we'd gutted mine, dragged her (with the quad) back to the truck (Don had driven all the way to the tank), found an gutted Rustin's elk and dragged it to the truck it was already almost 9:30PM. Once back at camp we ate the squirrel stew and then got Rustin's elk hung in a tree and skinned him. Mine was so big (at least 500# live weight - don't know for sure though since we didn't have a scale) that we couldn't get her into the tree and had to skin her on the ground. Then we quartered her and hung the quarters in the tree. By the time we were done with all that it was 0130. Slept good.

Woke up around 0730 and after breakfast got my quarters into game bags and trimmed as much meat as we could off the rest of the carcass. Then we got Rustin's quartered, bagged and trimmed the ribs. Broke down camp and headed home.

To help out Don's truck, we dropped the trailer with the quad at his nephew's in Flag. When we stopped for gas in Flag we also packed a bunch of ice around the quarters to help keep them cool as it was going to be warm in Phoenix.

Once back in Mesa we went to Don's house and his brother came over to help us butcher the meat. Thank the Lord for that since it was quite a job. Got all the meat cut and wrapped and headed home.

My daughter was a Velcro baby for about half and hour after I got home in spite of the mix of elk stink and me not showering and working my butt off for 3 days stink. Ate tenderloin for dinner. Life is good.

Got the new deep freezer almost completely full of elk.

I will post pictures when they have been developed. I forgot the digital camara and Don only had one of those cheap disposable camaras. I'll scan the pics once I have them.

[sumpnz]

A few more details I neglected in my last post.

Range for the shot was 110-120 yards. I paced it off at 140 yards, but since we were on opposite slopes I figure the straight line distance was closer to 110-120. She ran 38 yards from where I shot her to where she died.

Rifle was a CZ 550 American in 6.5x55 SE caliber. I was shooting Barnes 140gr XLC's handloaded to a chronographed 2850 fps (50.0gr RL 19, Federal 210 primers, R-P brass). Scope was a Bushnell 3-9x40 set at 4x. I did recover the bullet, but unfortunatly it was accidently thrown out by Don during the butchering. It did shed the "petals", probably when it hit the bone in the shoulder, but the rest of the bullet continued on through the lungs until it hit and broke a rib on the off side. I was hoping to keep it so I could weigh it and post a picture, but oh well.

Like I said before I don't know what she actually weighed, but I have an 11 cubic foot deep freezer that is at least 3/4 full of just elk meat. I'm really glad I didn't cheap out and get the 7 cu.ft. freezer. Don said the hooves were at least as big as the 5x5 bull he'd shot a year or two ago.

[Koobuh]

Glad to hear you got your elk.
I can't imagine winning a hunting tag and then getting skunked, and was afraid of that when I started reading the thread.
However, this story had a happy ending. :)

Enjoy that meat, but don't be shy about giving it out, if you like variety you'll get tired of it all too soon.

[Lennyjoe]

but don't be shy about giving it out, if you like variety you'll get tired of it all too soon
;)