[SpaceCowboy]

I'm looking at getting an AK, first one. I just want a standard classic looking AK. I came across the Arsenal Inc SA M7 Classic. Looks exactly how I want it and I like that it has a milled receiver. But is it worth $1200 ? The price is a little hard to take.

[Father Knows Best]

"Is it worth it?" That's a question that only you can answer. A Cadillac Escalade isn't worth $50,000+ to me, but it appears that plenty of other people think differently.

The Arsenal SA M-7 series are top quality rifles. I don't think you can buy a better AK clone. I have a SA M-7S, which is essentially the same rifle but with synthetic stocks and a side-mount optics rail. I paid $395 for it in used but like-new condition. I think new SA M-7's run around $600-700. The SA M-7 Classic looks beautiful, but personally I wouldn't pay an extra $5-600 just for the wood stocks and whatever other upgrades they come with. Plenty of people will, though.

[SpaceCowboy]

That's what I was thinking. It's a very nice rifle and I need a milled receiver, but the extra $500 that it commands just does not seem reasonable. Maybe I can find a used one somewhere.

[Dave Markowitz]

Arsenal, Inc.'s AKs are the best ever made, IMHO. Do some shopping around and one of their other models may be available for quite a bit less. E.g., I have an SLR-101SG, one of their milled receiver rifles which they converted from single to double stack mags. I paid about $565 for it around a year ago.

[Cosmoline]

Where can I order their receivers on-line? I've got a project brewing to build my own AK with a high-grade milled receiver.

[trbon8r]

For that kind of money you are pretty close to Valmet M76 territory, which in my opinion are the best AK variants ever made. Valmets in good clean condition can be had for around the price you mentioned. The only downside is that spare parts are hard to find and expensive.

The Arsenal rifles are nice, but not nice enough for $1000+

[ddc]

Stumbled across this ad about 30 seconds after I read your question:

Arsenal SA-M7S (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=157921)

[Citadel99]

Do what I did. Get a postban Aresenal AK. Mine was the 101 model, I think. Buy some wood furniture. Have a competent gunsmith mill out the magwell to accept standard magazines. For about $450 you have what you want.

PM me and I can tell you of a shop here in town that has two postbans in stock as of last week.

Mark

[beerslurpy]

The Arsenal and VEPR guns both solve the problem of the bendy receivers that most AKs have.

When an AK is fired, the force of the gas piston at an angle to the bolt (before it unlocks) causes the whole receiver and barrel to gyrate like a hula dancer. Since this motion is usually in the same way each time, the guns are mostly accurate. Using a heavier and stiffer receiver (as both of these guns do) takes a bunch of slack out of the whole system, and reduces the shot to shot variation. From what I can tell, a good AK can get down to 2-4 moa before running into the limits of commercial/milsurp ammo.

[modifiedbrowning]

Give Elk River Tool and Die a call at (406) 585-0099. It's run by an acquaintance of mine, great guy. He was trained and bought his equipment from Arsenal USA. I'm not sure on his pricing but I'm sure he can make you whatever you want. The email is clarkston@peoplepc.com

[Texfire]

I am curious as to the price disparity? Is it the milled receiver that increases the costs, or do they not build the entire rifle here and not use kits?

[idakfan]

Hello SpaceCowboy.

If you're really set on the Arsenal Inc. I would consider the SA M7 A1 R, which run for $800. Then also get a GP WASR 10 for under $400 to have a classic look AK.

Just an idea. Can't go wrong with Arsenal Inc.

[Father Knows Best]

I am curious as to the price disparity? Is it the milled receiver that increases the costs, or do they not build the entire rifle here and not use kits?

The Arsenal SA M7 series are built in the Arsenal arms factory in Bulgaria. They are not assembled from surplus used parts kits.

[beerslurpy]

No, the US sold ones are made from US made internal parts in the original Bulgarian receiver.

[Father Knows Best]

No, the US sold ones are made from US made internal parts in the original Bulgarian receiver.

Texfire was asking whether the increased cost was because they did not use "kits." My point is that the Arsenal AKs are not assembled from used surplus "kits". They are new parts. One article at Arsenal's website says:

The first thing you will notice about
the SA M7 is that every line is perfectly
straight and smooth. Every piece fits perfect
with others around it. The hammer,
trigger and disconnector are in absolute
sync and all have a perfect relationship
with their home in the receiver. If you
have any hands-on experience with or
have even owned an AK47 you must be
asking yourself how this can be possible,
and I will tell you right now. Arsenal,
Inc manufactures their own parts and receivers.
There is not one single part in an Arsenal, Inc rifle that is used or surplus.
Every part is brand new. The parts they
manufacture in house are done to exacting
tolerances. Their quality requirements
are so stringent that the only way
to guarantee them is to actually forge and
CNC mill each receiver, hammer, trigger
and disconnector. The barrel is even hammer
forged and chrome lined. There is
an immediate and obvious benefit to the
tight tolerances in the relationship between
the hammer, trigger and
disconnector as soon as you fire it.

Some of the parts are US-made, as is required for 922r compliance. I am pretty sure that there are a lot more Bulgarian parts in an Arsenal AK than just the receiver.

[idakfan]

I believe the difference is in their SA (American made) and SLR (bulgarian import) series.

[clange]

Correct ^^. The SA series have a US made milled receiver, and other required US parts. The SLRs are bulgarian receivers with required US parts.

[Father Knows Best]

Aren't the SLR receivers also stamped?

[KaceCoyote]

Are the barrels chromed?

[Father Knows Best]

The articles I've read about Arsenal AK's say they have chrome-lined barrels. I can't speak for every Arsenal, but my SA M7S does indeed have a chromed bore.

[Dave Markowitz]

To answer a couple of the questions above:

SLR receivers are milled, and Arsenal AKs have chrome barrels.

[clange]

SLRs can be milled or stamped, as both kinds were imported from bulgaria.

[Father Knows Best]

I just checked the Arsenal website. It lists the SLR-101 and SLR-102 models in the "milled" section, and the SLR-105, SLR-107 and SLR-108 models in the "stamped" section.

[KaceCoyote]

How well do the Arsenal rifles group? Anyone got pics of groups?

[Father Knows Best]

No pics, unfortunately. When I first took my used SA M-7S out, I was getting 1.5-2.0" 5-shot groups at 50 yards using Wolf 124 grain FMJ. That was firing off a rigid improvised rest on a windy and hot day using the stock sights and the only mag I had, and without taking the time to clean the barrel or let it cool down. I just fired a couple of mags pretty quickly to get used to the trigger and general function and make sure it was on paper, and then spent about 10 minutes shooting a few groups, so the barrel was definitely fouled and hot when I shot them. The mag was a 30-rounder which was too long for me to use my Caldwell rest.

I've since picked up a short 10 round mag and a couple of different brands of US-made brass cased ammo (Winchester, American Eagle, UMC) for it, as well as some Silver Bear (Russian) target loads and 154 grain Wolf. I've been meaning to take it out to the 100 yard line and put it on the Caldwell rest with the 10 round mag to see how good it will really do. Once I do, I'll post some pics here. I'm anticipating 2-3 MOA, with the possibility that the right ammo may get it under 2.

[Joe Mamma]

Arsenal arguably makes the best AK's. I would suggest not getting the SAM-7 Classic (or looking into it further) because I think there are parts interchangeability problems with other AK's. I think there are parts that fit a Classic that don't fit any other AK's. But, I could be wrong about that.

I would suggest an SAM-7 (plain) or SAM-7R (it comes with a rail on the side of the receiver for scope mounting). They don't have the parts interchangeability problems that the classics do.

Joe Mamma

[SpaceCowboy]

Hey all. Thanks for the replies. If the Arsenal Inc. SLRs are Bulgarian imports, would I be better off hunting the shows to find a used one?