[Onslaught]

First off, I am a Licensed CCW carrying, Military Supporting, Death Penalty Supporting, Dianne Feinstein-YoMama BeenHookin-Saddaam Who'sSane hating Republican American. I have also had long hair since I was 18 years old (I'm 33 now).

I live right next to Ft. Benning Military base. I used to be a locally known "RockJock" at a Rock radio station in town, so I have met, drank beer with, hung out with, and become friends some very excellent Military men and women in my time. I would NEVER carry a sign or block a road or throw a rock in protest against our Miltary men and women.

Now that the war's on, and all these "Peace" morons are causing trouble, I get DIRTY looks from G.I's that I see every time I go out in public. It's been 6 years since I left radio, so these guys don't recognize me or know who I am, it's just the hair.

A large group of us from work went to a restaurant that everyone who's spent time at Ft. Benning knows... The Four Winds Restaurant, to eat Ranger Burgers the other day. I stood in a very long line to pay with a lot of guys in BDU's, and my place in line kinda put me in the path of the exit door. As these guys paid and left, I'd have to step aside and let them pass. Every time I did, I'd say "excuse me Sir" or "good afternoon Sir" or just "how are you Sir"... I got nasty, angry, dirty looks from every single one of them... And none of them spoke in return.

This also happened during the first Gulf war. I was at a local "rock club" where you'll usually find a mix of long haired "headbangers" and G.I. "headbangers" alike, all drunk, and usually getting along. Out in the parking lot, a group of 5 GI's decided they didn't like hippies and one of them said something like "why don't you get a haircut you hippy freak" To which I responded with an angry (and drunk) look which led to "who do you think you are Hippy" and the next thing I knew, I got picked up from behind and slammed on a car, and had a GOOD ole time swinging blind and getting punched from all sides by these 5 "Enlisted Men".

Now, I know this is long, and I'm already thinking I've lost sight of the "point" I wanted to make...

BUT if these guys are fighting for Freedom, WHY is it that every single GI I've seen in the last week has judged me on sight, regardless of how polite I am in their presence???

There's no need to respond, as I'm not looking for answers, I guess I'm just venting, and you guys are cheaper than therapy.

http://www.frinkian.com/images/smiles/new_usa.gif

[CZ-75]

Funny, I see all kinds of blue collar looking guys with long hair. I kinda doubt these folks are going to be going to an anti-war protest anytime soon, unless it's to kick some whiney liberal a**es.

Hence, I don't know why all these GIs want to stomp your face the first chance they get. I'd advise wearing clothes with American Flags or colors and NRA or other pro-2nd stuff. The military has been known to shoot its own when they aren't properly identified. ;)

[Onslaught]

Funny, I see all kinds of blue collar looking guys with long hair.
Maybe that's part of the problem too... I work for an Internet Applications Development company. I probably do look like some of those tree hugging hippies with my ponytail and "dress casuals" on. Believe me, there are very few "like us" in this building. VERY few...

Maybe I'll get myself an american flag pin to put on my shirt or something... It actually does bug me for any of these guys to think that I'm against them, even if they are jumping to conclusions based on the hair. What they are sacrificing FOR US is such a huge deal, so appreciated, that I hate to think that they look at me and think I'm not grateful or don't respect them for it.

Maybe I should go around like this more often...

:D

[hansolo]

We have some common ground......I, also, used to work in Radio....from '77 through '88 I was a Disk Jockey: I worked Classic Rock formats, Country Rock and straight C&W. I had
a "ZZ Top" look. In my Mid-50's, I'm a bit older than you and WAS a hippie in the Sixties. Things change: I still keep a short, trimmed beard and barely over the ears hair: I can relate -- although a lot of "blue collar" types have long hair, they often have that "Biker" look that lets you know these aren't folk you'd want to mess with.
I live fairly close to the 29 Palms Marine Base. In this time of war with way too many "latter day wannabe Peaceniks" acting like a**h***s, I would cut my hair to avoid being mistaken for these cretins. My opinion: I'm certainly not trying to tell you how to groom yourself! But.......it DOES grow back, and I would want to avoid being mistaken for the anti-American demonstrators.

This is NOT to excuse the rude behavior of the Servicemen who gave you the cold shoulder. They should represent the BEST of the U.S.A., here AND abroad.

[Coronach]

Nothing will screw you up faster than jumping to conclusions based soley upon appearance. Sure, we all make judgements based upon it (its a part of situational awareness), but you have to be careful to keep the final judgement unwritten until you know what you have.

For instance, call my Uncle Mark (tie-dye wearing, long haired, classic-rock listening aged hippie-looking dude) a hippie and he will inform you, in no uncertain terms, that he was a former USN man and that he disliked being spit on by the hippies when he was on shore leave, thankyouverymuch. I left out the expletives.

Mike

[bogie]

Well, the hair's short now...

I'd start wearing the flag, something like that.

Also, call 'em by their rank, rather than "sir" - and NEVER call an enlisted man "sir."

[jmbg29]

Where to begin? (Long)

I think most G.I. types are pretty much on edge right now. That certainly doesn't excuse their behavior, but look at what they have been asked to put up with.

1) Our country actually gets attacked, thousands of our people are killed, and after a couple of dozen crocodile tears get shed, a bunch of dirt-bags (not you) want to make believe that it is 1969 again.

2) Johhny Jihad Walker, Bulldozer Speedbump Girl, and the Human Pantyshields. Where and when does this bizzare self-destruct behavior end? I guess I was lucky. When I was in the service in the early 1980s losers like the above mentioned had burned out from the 60s/70s protest overload, and so nobody was really doing much in the way of protest, sabotage, and betrayal.

3)Speaking of betrayal, imagine what it must be like to volunteer to risk your life, and then also be asked by your countrymen, to serve alongside people like John Mohammed and Asan Akbar. Imagine what that kind of betrayal must be like. Not because of their chosen religious beliefs, but because Mohammed and Akbar made plain their hatred for America, but were allowed to continue to work as a plant among true Americans, because no one wanted to hurt any one else's feelings!

What does all of this have to do with long hair? Not a whole lot, except to say that hairstyles, clothing choices, etc. are ways that we choose to help identify ourselves. They are clues that we give to others in order to express our common interests, the sub-culture that we wish to identify with, and even our status.

I had Agro-American long hair for about a dozen years after I got out of the military. The few times that I had the kind of trouble you are talking about, I was able to quite easily deflect it because I speak "the language" of the military. That makes me identifyable to them not only as a non-threat, but as a comrade in arms.

Unfortunately for you, lots of folks that dress in similar fashion to you, have made it plain that a Republican political defeat is more important than the lives and morale of our troops.

That still doesn't excuse what they did. Nothing will.

It also sounds like booze was a factor on their part. That is also no excuse. The military has more than its fair share of boozing and losing. Such is life.

It sounds like you know enlisteds from officers, so in the future, one thing you might try is to not use the word "Sir" when refering to them. The old joke response by an enlisted that has been called "Sir", is "My parents were married!" :D :D Of course, you shouldn't have to know that. They should treat you respectfully, and suck it up.

I think the advice about a flag pin, or even an occasional "Thank you for serving our country." Might help you to identify yourself as one of the good guys in sheeple's clothing. :p ;) :D

I've rambled enough I guess.:D

[MonkeyMan]

Hey Onslaught, come on up to Emory sometime, we'll raise a little :evil:

I get the opposite treatment most of the time as when I'm not wearing my cammies or my IDPA hat the libs that swarm here take me as one of their own.:barf: Be polite, be respectful, be yourself, it's all you can do.

[ACP230]

You could take a leaf from Charley Daniels. In "Uneasy Rider" the teller of the tale tucked his hair up under his hat when going into a Redneck bar. That worked until one of the Rednecks said, "you tip your hat to this lady son, and all that hair fell out from underneath."

I get pretty shaggy over the winter and this winter it was worse than usual because my barber up and died. I haven't run into the problem you have, because I live in a small town and everyone knows that I am remain a curmudgeous conservative no matter how I look.

I made the mistake of judging someone by the number of pieces of metal fastened to his face recently, and then he started showing up at the range.

[Onslaught]

Thanks for the support guys.

I'll definitely remember the "Sir" thing... Heck, I was born and raised here by parents born and raised here... calling someone "Sir" is a sign of respect. And calling someone who appears to be close to your own age, or maybe even younger than you "Sir" is indeed respectful. But then again, most of these guys ain't from around here.

Time to brush up on how to identify rank. ;)

Thanks again

[Pendragon]

I am suprised nobody brought this up.

As much as we would all love to imagine a society where we can look however we want and yet also be treated equally, that is blatant juvinile fantasy. Many young people go for an alternative look of some kind - from the mild like long hair and leather jackets to the extreme like piercings and tatoos.

This is all fine, the problem is, the people that do this still expect to be treated like they look "normal".

Appearance is a form of identity. People assume various looks and forms of dress to identify with certain groups or, if you will, "sub cultures". Most of the time, the identification goes beyond just a look and is chosen to project that the person holds certain beliefs or values.

If you want to be a business man, you generally have to wear a suit. Us techie types have our own uniform - usually khakis and polo shirts or similar.

Now, don't write me off, because I do identify with your position. I came of age in a small conservative town at a very conservative church. I was a very dedicated christian young man and lived and acted the part. I also happened to like heavy metal - at the time there was a lot of christian metal bands and I became active in promoting a lot of concerts for them. I also had long hair and dressed "that way" - leather, jeans, boots, etc.

See, I was the same old me - nice kid, sang in the choir, active in the church, friend to all, etc. But what happened was certain people in certain circles did not really trust me or like me - based on my looks.

This pissed me off no end because in christianity, you are supposed to look at the heart, not the wrapper and it was just "wrong".

Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that while it was not really fair or "big" of them to treat me like they did, it is just how a lot of people are.

I went short and long on and off for the next 7 years and eventiually went short for good. It just made life easier in so many ways and as I started coming up on 30, I realized that what was important was not how I looked, but how I acted and treated people. When I finally cut it for the last time, my boss (who I did not like much at all - he epitomized "those" kinds of people) was thrilled and crowed about it for weeks. But I did not let it bug me - I did it for me, not for him.

Not telling you to cut your hair, just telling you to see the world as it is, not as is should be. Live with your choices.

[Khornet]

dress for respect. Not to get it, to give it.

When a scared, sick patient sees me walk into the room, they need me to look like a doctor. For most people that means at least a tie and decent pants.

When I go to church, I wear my Sunday best out of respect for Whose house it is. You get the picture.

So of course we're all free to dress as we wish, and of course it's foolish to judge by appearances. But it's equally silly to cultivate an appearance which you well know marks you as a particular kind of person, and expect the rest of the world to see through your appearance to the person inside.

Let me put it another way: why do you wear your hair long? It's got to be more inconvenient than short hair, no? Maybe you have to go to the trouble of a ponytail, be careful around machinery and fires, etc. So why bother? Because you're making a statement, that's why. As we all do by our dress and appearance. But that particular appearance sends a particular well-known message--so learn to live with it or change.

Most people worth knowing will withold judgement until they get to know you. The others aren't worth your time. But appearance sends a message. That's why we have uniforms etc.

[Greg L]

Maybe I should go around like this more often...

You may want to be a little more careful. It looks like the guy behind you is videotaping your butt. :eek:

Greg :D

[Pendragon]

If I were to be more honest than is comfortable, I would say that psychologically, a large part of having long hair as a man is the imagery you see in movies and other media.

Think Conan, The Three Musketeers, Most more resent swashbuckling movies, etc.

There is a certain romantic hero notion that I wanted to identify with when I was younger. This was most of my friends as well - we were mostly conservative types, but overly geeky (some more than others). I would get uncomfortable when they started talking about "last night I killd 3 Orcs with my Plus 4 sword of wounding!". :rolleyes:

I thought I could pull the look off because I was very tall and pretty stout (and a whole lot slimmer :o )

I probably could have - if I could have walked around in a billowy shirt, leather pants and a sword lashed to my back - but when you have to wear regular clothes, the effect is mostly in your own mind :)

[Desert Dog]

I had long hair for many years, and it was "me".

For me I just got lazy, so in 2001 I cut it off (it went halfway down my back), and I have kept it short since then.

What is remarkable is the difference people at work treat you. I think it is even unconsciously by most people.

Although I did have an interesting encounter at the Phoenix airport one time, when this woman walked up to me while I was waiting for a flight and asked me if I would watch her luggage for her, because she didn't trust the "skinhead types" around and that most long-haired guys she met were honest.... :confused:

Like I said before though I got lazy... long hair is hard to keep up, and even harder to make first impressions on the older generations as well...

Mike

[Drjones]

Hmm...Khornet makes very good points.

No offense or anything man, but why don't you cut your hair?

I can't really blame our troops for being on edge, though I really don't think that outward aggression is going to help anyone's view of them, particularly not the hippies who already hate them.

:rolleyes:

Anyhow, maybe they think you are trying to start something by talking to them, looking directly at them, etc.

They probably aren't used to that from long-hair types.

Good idea mentioned above to wear a flag pin, or if you have any sort of military shirt that shows you were in the military.

Anything like that, ya know....

Good luck!

[Onslaught]

As much as we would all love to imagine a society where we can look however we want and yet also be treated equally, that is blatant juvinile fantasy. Many young people go for an alternative look of some kind - from the mild like long hair and leather jackets to the extreme like piercings and tatoos.
Agreed. But were I upset about the store security guard following me around, or the Matre'D not seating me in turn, I would say no more. But specifically, a large portion of the guys in uniform are "hard core" so to speak, and we have common ground. I can't tell you how many times I'd be out doing a "remote broadcast" at a bar and a group of newly graduated GI's would come up and say "man, I used to have hair like that"...usually followed by a show of Driver's Licenses. It's specific to the war protests that I believe I am getting the cold shoulder.
So of course we're all free to dress as we wish, and of course it's foolish to judge by appearances. But it's equally silly to cultivate an appearance which you well know marks you as a particular kind of person, and expect the rest of the world to see through your appearance to the person inside.
I'd say at least 15% of the internet techies have ponytails. And if you notice the picture, I do tuck in my shirt, wear a belt, no "Metallica" T-shirts, I keep the facial hair short, and I do keep my hair back in a ponytail to be neat. I don't wear combat boots and leather biker jackets or spiked bracelets, or even earrings. I get respect at businesses and restaurants and banks, etc. because I dress, speak, and act in a manner that shows respect, (some) intelligence, and it's not uncommon to deal with someone in that range who makes a comfortable living at what they do, a salesperson or what have you generally keeps that in mind.

I don't get treated any differently than anyone else anywhere I go, unless the person I come in contact with is wearing BDU's, and only in the last couple of weeks. (And 12 years ago).

No offense or anything man, but why don't you cut your hair?
Quite honestly, because I've had it for 15 years, and if I didn't like it short, I'd be stuck with it for a couple of years until it grew back.

I will concede that my original intention was to look like "Nikki Sixx" or some other rock hero, but those were the 80's and that was the thing to do. But I've cleaned up, I dress respectfully and appropriately for all situations, etc.

There are lawyers, Professors, and professionals of many types with ponytails. But it's not hard to tell the difference between a highschool dropout who pumps gas and has long hair, and a college graduate who has a career and makes money. It's the way they dress, speak, and act that seperates them from the rest. I do try to do the same, especially since I know the ponytail can throw some people off.

Again, I thank you for letting me vent, and I appreciate all comments, including the ones that offered alternative points of view...

But you just keep your scissors to your dang self :neener:

Oh yeah... P.S. Thanks for the heads-up Greg L, I completely missed that! :D

[Pendragon]

Now that you say all that, I remember now how much I looked for examples of successful people with long hair.

You see somebody in business or high in some admirable position with long hair and you say "see, it can be done."

Totally true.

But it is still a self imposed handicap. Mine was costing me money and probably a few opportunities as well.

I am the kind of person that likes to push peoples buttons - especially in ways that challenge assumptions that I do not care for.

However, in my case, my desire to better my position won out against my contentious nature :)

[Sir Galahad]

I had long hair that I started growing back in 1990. On March 23rd of this year (just last week), I had it all cut off. Why? Because I didn't want to be mistaken for some of the long haired peaceniks and other assorted freaks around this town any more. My hair was closer to my butt than my shoulders, by the way. That's how long it was. But I feel strongly enough about this to not want to even be mistaken for these "people" in any way, shape, or form. Quite frankly, I was embarrassed to be in public right up until I got the haircut. Some of the fringe benefits are that it's easier to take care of and I'm not clogging the drain every time I wash my hair. :D And hair isn't blowing across my scope messing up my shots.:D

It's a free country and folks ought to be able to choose how they wear their hair. Of course, employers also may choose who they will and will not employ and people can choose who they will or will not be friendly towards in public. I just know where I want to stand right now.

[ahadams]

okay could we now request a moment of silence for those THR members, myself included, who even though we do not wear our hair long, could no longer do so even if we chose to?:rolleyes:

There - now does that put everything back in perspective?:cool:

[Ian]

I've been letting my hair grow out for about 2 years now, and it's a bit below my shoulders at the moment. I really don't mind having a superficial resemblence to hippie types...if someone wants to judge me by my hair that's their mistake. I try not to associate with people like that in the first place. If I cut my hair, it'll be because I want it off, not because of any outside pressure. :)

[Double Naught Spy]

Prejudice (hair length, skin color, sex, religion etc.) is not a facet that makes me proud of this country.

[Zundfolge]

I too used to have real long hair. It was fun to be hanging out at the bar and a few blissninny commie-libs would start haranging some poor yuppie looking conservative and I'd jump in the debate. The liberals would relax and think I was one of "them" until I opened my mouth and tore their arguments to bits (many times this got me free beer from the yuppie types, and the libs running away to cry to mama :) ).

At any rate, when I was going to be around a more "redneck" or military crowd I'd dress accordingly. You'd be surprised what a t-shirt with a pro RKBA, NRA or Gun Manufacturer logo on it will do to make up for your long hair.

[WilderBill]

I don't know just what they would make of me.
Pony tail sticking out from under an NRA cap, BDU pants, and most of my shirts are either bicycling related or something like MicroSoft Tech...
I guess the fact that the pony tail is getting a little gray might have some effect?

[Khornet]

wear your hair as long as you like, just don't forget that you're asking more of human nature than it has to give.

Double naught, that prejudice says exactly nada about our country. It says plenty, and not all bad, about human nature. It's kinda narcissistic to take an ordinary case of being thought that you're what you look like, and see it as an American character flaw.