Glock Guide Rods??


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Texas Gunman
September 25, 2005, 10:50 PM
I've been reading up post & replies from fellow Glock owners about captive & none captive guide rods.
Half the Glock owners say the standard factory plastic captive guide rods are the best and most reliable.
Others say that they havent had any problems using a SS none captive guide rod in their Glocks.
Im bout sure both will work just fine, but have mixed thoughts on this matter of plastic guide rod and SS guide rods.
To me, SS will be easier to changed out spring weight etc,want chip or melt and more consistent recoil and lock up by using SS guide rod.

Just wondering why Glock switched to plastic captive guide rods?
No doubt their more cost effective and save money,like many gun makers now days looking for cheaper ways to produce & compete with one another.

Also, I just purchased a SS guide rod and a couple ISMI #17 flat Wire recoil springs from topglock.com.

I already have a few captive guide rod for glock, guess I'll keep them for spares or in case this SS none captive proves unreliable.

Has anyone here have any input, much appreciated.

TG

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Braden
September 25, 2005, 10:57 PM
Just wondering why Glock switched to plastic captive guide rods?

$$$

While I think the factory plastic rods will work fine, there HAVE been cases where they've broken. For that reason, and that reason alone, I bought a SS Aro-Tek non-captured guide rod from Lone Wolf along with a 22# Wolff recoil spring (which I'll probably change to a 20# at some point).

To me, the biggest advantage of a non-captured rod is that you can clean it a lot easier. Being able to change springs easier is a bonus, but I don't really change out my springs all that often.

Texas Gunman
September 25, 2005, 11:04 PM
Thanks for your reply, I have a Glock 17, so not knowing what weight to go with, I'd chosen the #17 spring, it is the standard weight for Glock 17s.

I may look into a heavier spring, when using +P ammunition.

Will this #17 spring handle +P ammo?

TG

Graystar
September 25, 2005, 11:09 PM
there HAVE been cases where they've brokenWhat in the world would cause a guide rod to break??? They don't do anything...they just stay in one place, the spring compresses along it and puts a tiny bit of lateral pressure on it...that's about it. A broken Glock guide rod would have had to undergo some serious trauma.

As for changing it out...
The rod doesnít affect recoil.
The rod doesnít affect lockup.
The rod isnít going the melt.

ButÖchange it you want to. This is America...do as you like! :)

kimbermaniac
September 25, 2005, 11:17 PM
There is very little stress on the rod itself,as the above poster pointed out.It is more cost effective to use the plastic/polymer rod,so that is why Glock probably uses that for it's rods and factory standard sights $$$$$$.I do prefer metal rods myself,so I normally purchase them aftermarket.It really isn't neccessary,but it provides more need for me than for the gun.

Texas Gunman
September 25, 2005, 11:18 PM
I've read where others who have had the factory guide rod to break,also read where a guy fired a x amount of rounds in a matter of minutes and the guide rod melted.
Also, that the factory plastic guide rods do flex during recoil,this is based on what I've read.(Im still new to Glocks) :confused:

But, they do work for your average shooter that doesnt put that many rounds down range,than again I've heard where people have put thousands of rounds down range using their glock plastic guide rods.

Here a pix of one, this is what get my attention,dont like things that break or melt.
http://www.topglock.com/images/recassbroken.JPG

TG

Graystar
September 26, 2005, 12:35 AM
Also, that the factory plastic guide rods do flex during recoil,this is based on what I've read. The rods don't flex. The lateral force required to flex a Glock guide rod is much greater than the lateral pressure exerted by the spring.

If you have an older Glock with an uncaptured spring, you can take the spring, compress it along something really thin (like a wooden skewer) and then see how much force it takes to move the spring laterally. It doesnít take much. Then take the Glock guide rod and try to flex it. Itís stronger than it looks. The lateral pressure that the spring provides is only a fraction of the pressure needed to flex the rod.

As for melting...well, the Glock 18 also uses a polymer guide rod. I donít think they would do that unless it didnít stand up to the heat and abuse of full-auto operation.

Sactown
September 26, 2005, 01:30 AM
I'm patiently waiting for my tungsten guide rod. I had no other project going on so I'm making my own G34 race gun.

Braden
September 26, 2005, 08:25 AM
Thanks for your reply, I have a Glock 17, so not knowing what weight to go with, I'd chosen the #17 spring, it is the standard weight for Glock 17s.

I may look into a heavier spring, when using +P ammunition.

Will this #17 spring handle +P ammo?

For the G17, a 17 pound spring is just fine, in my opinion, even for +P ammo. The good thing is that springs are cheap, so if you want to experiment with heavier springs at the range then it's easy to do. I went with a heavier spring because I'm shooting very hot .40 S&W rounds.

I would NOT carry with a heavier spring until you've proven that it works without fail for at least a couple hundred rounds of whatever your carry ammo is.

Regarding the breaking of plastic rods, in every case that I've heard of where it happened it was the exact same break shown above. Also, in every case that I've heard of, the gun kept shooting and the shooter typically didn't discover the break until they were cleaning the gun later. So, even if one DOES break (which isn't very likely), chances are it will still cycle just fine.

goalie
September 26, 2005, 11:32 AM
A stainless steel non-captured guide rod and standard strength Wolff spring from Brownells has run for over 4k rounds in my G17 without a hiccup.

Tim3256
September 26, 2005, 12:51 PM
Glock did not switch to the polymer guiderod, that is the original design.

Broken guiderods are almost invariably the result of improper installation (wrong lug on barrel)

Your stock guiderod will NOT melt. It is used in the G18 (full auto), it is effectively cooled every time the slide cycles. If it will hold up to the G18, you're OK. Information to the contrary cannot be verified; it's always "I heard...", "I know a guy...", "My RO says...." Its internet BS.

The "lateral strength" of the guiderod is a non-issue. The there is not enough room inside the slide to allow for the amount of lateral distortion required to cause structural failure. The guiderod is more than adequate for the intended task; it is a guiderod, that's all it does.

For standard loads, the stock 17# spring is the best and most reliable choice, especially for CCW, and be careful with all aftermarket springs (spring inner diameters are crucial). Keep it stock, friend. As to tungsten and titanium rods, they cost alot more, and add nothing (unless you sell them)...a solution looking for a problem. SS is okay (and cheap) if you want to change out springs alot for racing, I guess.

TV

Braden
September 26, 2005, 07:46 PM
Glock did not switch to the polymer guiderod, that is the original design.

Not to be disagreeable, but the original Glock 17 model came with a steel guide rod. At some point they switched to the plastic guide rods. I don't know when that was because I never cared enough to research it, but it is well documented that the original Glocks came with steel rods. :)

But, then again, I DID read that on the internet. ;)

Truthfully, I go back and forth on the guide rod issue. One day I'll think it's better to go stainless and the next I'll decide it's better just to leave it stock. The MAIN reason I changed mine was because I shoot a lot of Double Tap ammo. It's some pretty hot stuff and I thought a heavier spring might help reduce recoil (it didn't) and protect the gun from being beaten up (who knows).

Rockstar
September 26, 2005, 10:44 PM
I'm one of those guys who uses steel guide rods in his Glocks. I'm using several brands; they all seem to work well. The only aftermarket guide rod that I've heard bad things about is the Glockmeister captured stainless. Wolff guide rods are steel, but not stainless.

Texas Gunman
September 26, 2005, 10:47 PM
I thought the first ones was steel,but have got mixed answers, those who say plastic & ones who say their steel,but the first ones was plastic.

Here is the reply that I just got from Glock Faq.com

James,The original Glock 17 had an uncaptured, plastic guide rod.



-Scott


----------------------------------

Scott@GlockFAQ.com

Author/Webmaster - GlockFAQ.com

Certified Glock Armorer

Board Member - Glock Collector's Association

Braden
September 26, 2005, 11:10 PM
I guess that just proves that you can't believe everything you read on the internet. ;) I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up. :)

medmo
September 27, 2005, 02:29 AM
I don't think sticking aftermarket parts in a stock gun is a great idea if you are looking for self defense reliability. I think that most people swap out the recoil spring and guide because they don't like the idea of a plastic guide rod. I find it confusing that some people are uncomfortable with plastic parts on a plastic gun. If you have reliability problems the first step in trouble shooting is reinstalling the factory parts and retesting.

MTMilitiaman
September 27, 2005, 05:03 AM
I got a Glock 20 this summer. I plan on doing a lot of stuff to it but a new guide rod is pretty low on the list. I don't lose any more sleep over the fact that my gun has a plastic guide rod than I do knowing it has a plastic frame. It works, I use it. When I have money to dink around with things, I will. I plan to eventually make it into a longslide model that are rumored to exist over on GlockTalk. But until then, if I wanted to fiddle with my pistol to get it to shoot out of the box, I would have bought a 1911 ;)

HSMITH
September 27, 2005, 07:22 AM
I agree with Tim3256, great post Tim.

Graystar
September 27, 2005, 07:36 AM
The "lateral strength" of the guiderod is a non-issue. The there is not enough room inside the slide to allow for the amount of lateral distortion required to cause structural failure. I agree that it's a non-issue, but I believe that the concern is not about failure, but of the spring rubbing against the frame or barrel, causing problems with slide return. But it doesn't so...

TheEgg
September 27, 2005, 01:34 PM
I carry a G19.

It works perfectly. 100% reliable.

Why would I start swapping out parts that work 100%?

Leave well enough alone -- if you want to mess around with your target guns (thats what I do with my 1911's) fine, but don't mess up your carry piece. :D

Not that I really think that just putting a steel guide-rod in is going to make much difference.

PO2Hammer
September 27, 2005, 01:46 PM
I had an old first Gen G-17 that had an uncaptured polymer guide rod. May have been an intermediate model.
I like uncaptured tungsten guide rods myself.
On a G-34 I used to have, I could only get reliable function with wimpy 115 practice ammo by going to a 15 pound recoil spring. The stock spring was just too stiff to allow proper function. The 15 pound spring made it 100% reliable.
On my Glock 20, I use a 20 pound spring and tungsten rod to reduce recoil. It has worked perfectly for many thousands of rounds.
I have an extended, uncaptured tungsten rod on order for my 17L to add weight in the muzzle and to use heavier springs for +p ammo.
I've never had a failure with tungsten rods, I've had a few with the stock rods.
The slide seems to move more smoothly and recoil gets tamed a little, especially shooting 10mm.
Just because the plastic one is a 'stock' part, doesn't mean it's the best.
Do you think the crappy plastic sights are the best just because they came with the pistol?
They came with the pistol because the were the cheapest usable part Glock could find.

TheEgg
September 27, 2005, 02:06 PM
Do you think the crappy plastic sights are the best just because they came with the pistol?

Nope, that is the first thing I replace - I like Meps, myself. :D

But they really don't impact the guns FUNCTION (in the sense that it fires and cycles). Messing with internal parts might. Like I said, I don't think you are going to seriously mess up your gun just by replacing the guide rod, but if it works as is, why bother? Most Glocks work just fine with the stock parts.

I can't count how many times I have been asked by people to check out their guns because they don't work right. I am not a gunsmith, and what I don't know about guns would fill a library -- but you know what? A large number of times, I have been able to return a gun to excellent function by simply pulling out all the aftermarket parts, and replacing with stock. This especially includes springs that were replaced because for some reason they believe that someone on the Internet knows more about springs in a Glock or Ruger or Smith than Glock or Ruger or Smith.

My only point is, if I am going to be using a gun for serious purposes, I am VERY CAREFUL about using aftermarket parts that might impact function.

PO2Hammer
September 27, 2005, 02:27 PM
Agreed.
On my Glock 20, I trust the tungsten guide rod and 20 pound spring because it has proven itself with a wide range of ammo and shooting styles (IDPA) and many, many rounds.
My 17L has been flawless with the stock rod and it will be a long time before I would trust my life to a tungsten rod, since my 17L is my primary home defense gun. The tungsten rod will have to prove itself.
Personaly, I think spring weight is far more critical to reliability. I use tungsten just to reduce recoil.
I like to use the strongest recoil spring spring that will cycle the gun 100% while shooting one handed, weak handed etc...
Too weak of a spring and the forward slide stroke might not strip a cartridge and feed it cleanly.
Too heavy and it my not eject properly.

Rockstar
September 27, 2005, 07:11 PM
Glocks, like most mass-produced machines, are made to accommodate the unwashed masses. I took a bath a few years back. :evil:

Inner Monkey
September 27, 2005, 07:46 PM
For what it is worth I have over 10,000 rounds of Double Tap full pressure 10mm through my G20 with the standard plastic guide rod & I have never had a problem. My training partner shoots a G32 .357 SIG & he has close to 100,000 on one of his G32ís. Again not problems with the stock plastic guide rod.

NMshooter
September 28, 2005, 07:09 PM
After tens of thousands of rounds through a variety of pistols I have seen a factory plastic guide rod fail exactly once: A USAF Combat Arms instructor who had never handled a Glock before wanted to shoot mine, and afterwards wanted to learn how to field strip and reassemble it. After I showed him how to do that he then did it himself. Upon reassembly as he racked the slide I noticed something fly out the front of the pistol. He had installed the captive guide rod and spring backwards. :uhoh:

So do not install the guide rod backwards and you will be good to go. :)

Island Beretta
September 29, 2005, 10:46 AM
..dont mean to prolong, but I knew people who got the first set of Glocks, (1st generation) back when Glocks were a mystery and there was all these rumours swirling about them and they had in black metal guide rods..

Also my plastic rod developed a chip on the head of the rod and I changed it. It appears as if this part will occassionally jump out of the half-crescent notch.. I bought a wolff non-captive rod and haven't had a problem since in addition the guns cycles smoother and I don't hear the recoil spring creaking when the slide is cycling..

made2cut
September 29, 2005, 11:50 AM
"The only aftermarket guide rod that I've heard bad things about is the Glockmeister captured stainless."

Great.... I just picked one of these up for my G30. Rockstar, can you elaborate on what kind of problems the Glockmeister rods were having or point me to that info?

wwsnyder
September 29, 2005, 12:11 PM
I have been thinking about a metal guide rod for my Walther P99 (.40). They appear to be very similar to Glock types. There are no direct replacements like the Wolff type. There are some expensive recoil assemblies available but I'm not really interested in them. In the P99, the guide rod often develops a bend which seems to rub on the inner part of the spring. The stock P99 guide rod is 3.1 inches or 78-79 mm. Is this close to any stock Glock rods?

Rockstar
September 29, 2005, 12:59 PM
made2: Several posts on Glocktalk about the Glockmeister rods' failing. I use the Wolff non-captured on both my G26 and G30. You can probably find more info by doing a search on Glocktalk.

made2cut
September 29, 2005, 01:33 PM
Thanks!

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